The problem with Chinese Democracy is that I feel like I could tell Axl how to improve every song on the album

[wasted]

People just want everything pigeon holed these days and in some cases, maybe even GNR's case, that is good. Like you get a product from ACDC or whoever you can trust. But the best thing about CD is that it's unique, you listen to it and think what is this? To some that means "didn't deliver what I like, therefore it sucks" and that's fine. I don't always expect that from a band I already like for one thing but it's still what I'm looking for, something different. A record that's jumping from Nirvana to Korn to NIN then hits you with an Elton john song? I'm all in, whether it's GNR, whether they pulled it off perfectly, I'm definitely still interested.

Have to agree that you can't knock variety. ACDC have some great songs, but a whole day of them just flays me.

It's just that some of the individual tunes making up the variety on cd aren't very good IMO. Still a journey tho.

For me Riad and IRS aren't as interesting as some of the others but they do a job. GNR has always been a melting pot, it leaned more to hard rock for a while, to take risks is a good thing. Obviously they could get Mike Clink to produce and grind out AFD after UYI after AFD forever. But I appreciate you get the record CD and it's not just autopilot, maybe they did over do it here and there but at least CD has an identity of it's own, it's not UYI or AFD.

The parallels with the Achtung Baby situation are definitely there. But to make a success of that evolution, I think Axl would've needed at least one of the other originals to retain the gnr sound. Maybe not slash, like you say. Probably izzy.

As it stands it was change, not evolution. Axl couldn't effectively evolve the gnr sound on his own - think that's my bottom line.

And you have to look at it again. Is that what Axl does? It was never an organic evolution maybe. Neither is Achtung Baby but you have the same band making the changes that are needed. Like Metallica, they might be using dust bin lids as drums but it's the same guys so it has some continuity.

I see GNR albums more like 80s event movies, high concept blockbusters. You don't evolve the sound, you just get a new script and bunch of new actors and make another movie with a bigger budget and better special effects. Maybe GNR albums are like Bond movies. There's always a supermodel that broke Axl's heart that has to die, the military and the bad guys are always out to get him. Whether it's the streets of LA, the pitfalls of fame and fortune or the industry and media out to destroy him, Axl will overcome it, have his revenge and end up floating in a dingy off the shoreline with America's next top model.

Edited October 17, 2013 by wasted

[HubbaBubba]

I love that analogy! But the point of view to me is a bit ad hoc - it's looking back and retrospectively accommodating what's gone down.

Achtung baby just stuck where cd didn't because of the quality of the music. Remember when people first heard the fly? Minds were exploding - they'd just never heard anything like it before.

I wish Axl had managed something similar, I really do. You'd of had your own fanclub by now. But no fan-made art section.

[wasted]

I love that analogy! But the point of view to me is a bit ad hoc - it's looking back and retrospectively accommodating what's gone down.

Achtung baby just stuck where cd didn't because of the quality of the music. Remember when people first heard the fly? Minds were exploding - they'd just never heard anything like it before.

I wish Axl had managed something similar, I really do. You'd of had your own fanclub by now. But no fan-made art section.

That comes down to the guitarist, Slash wasn't the Edge. With Slash you have to stick with the Aero DC stuff, maybe going for less produced Stonesy type albums in the mid period. Slash doesn't like to think in that conceptual way, like bands like U2 think, even Metallica sound like intellectuals compared to Slash. It's more of an instinct thing with Slash. It's a cool sensibility and Axl could have followed him down that route, but he seems like he has his own aesthetic.

But that's what I'm saying, we might have thought GNR was this raw off the cuff band, but really even on AFD Axl was trying to be Queen, taking all the greatest parts of ACDC and Aersmith, Skynard...I mean that's how he talked about SCOM, as the best Lynard Skynard song they could do. Like Better is the best NIN song they could do. Like Nov Rain is the best Elton song they could do.

It's like we were thinking it's ACDC, but Axl is an artist who puts these albums together and he's not tied to a genre. Both Axl and Slash were telling us this all along, slash was always saying I'm rock n roll, I'm Ozzy, I like rock n roll and Axl was always talking about Queen and different musical styles. And we were just like Yeah! Heroin! Rock n Roll! Dancing with Mr Brownstone! Rock N Roll! Axl was saying Elton John blah blah blah and we're like Rock N Roll Duff drank a gallon of vodka a day, this is like Dennis Hoppers meets Aerosmith in hell. Axl is like "I love Fiona Apple" and we we're like "Will CD have Welcome to the Jungle 2 on it? Stripped down rock n roll all the way that's what I'm expecting 14 tracks of hard rocking leather pants in the air metal!!!"

We've been hating and perpetuating, afraid to kick reality.

[HubbaBubba]

I love that analogy! But the point of view to me is a bit ad hoc - it's looking back and retrospectively accommodating what's gone down.

Achtung baby just stuck where cd didn't because of the quality of the music. Remember when people first heard the fly? Minds were exploding - they'd just never heard anything like it before.

I wish Axl had managed something similar, I really do. You'd of had your own fanclub by now. But no fan-made art section.

That comes down to the guitarist, Slash wasn't the Edge. With Slash you have to stick with the Aero DC stuff, maybe going for less produced Stonesy type albums in the mid period. Slash doesn't like to think in that conceptual way, like bands like U2 think, even Metallica sound like intellectuals compared to Slash. It's more of an instinct thing with Slash. It's a cool sensibility and Axl could have followed him down that route, but he seems like he has his own aesthetic.

But that's what I'm saying, we might have thought GNR was this raw off the cuff band, but really even on AFD Axl was trying to be Queen, taking all the greatest parts of ACDC and Aersmith, Skynard...I mean that's how he talked about SCOM, as the best Lynard Skynard song they could do. Like Better is the best NIN song they could do. Like Nov Rain is the best Elton song they could do.

It's like we were thinking it's ACDC, but Axl is an artist who puts these albums together and he's not tied to a genre. Both Axl and Slash were telling us this all along, slash was always saying I'm rock n roll, I'm Ozzy, I like rock n roll and Axl was always talking about Queen and different musical styles. And we were just like Yeah! Heroin! Rock n Roll! Dancing with Mr Brownstone! Rock N Roll! Axl was saying Elton John blah blah blah and we're like Rock N Roll Duff drank a gallon of vodka a day, this is like Dennis Hoppers meets Aerosmith in hell. Axl is like "I love Fiona Apple" and we we're like "Will CD have Welcome to the Jungle 2 on it? Stripped down rock n roll all the way that's what I'm expecting 14 tracks of hard rocking leather pants in the air metal!!!"

We've been hating and perpetuating, afraid to kick reality.

Axl was certainly the influences man, but cd showed he wasn't necessarily the ideas man.

You'd have thought Axl and Bucket could make an Achtung - it's weird that it didn't come off better. I have a suspicion we talk up bucket too much around here, but I haven't listened to enough of his solo stuff to be sure.

[wasted]

I love that analogy! But the point of view to me is a bit ad hoc - it's looking back and retrospectively accommodating what's gone down.

Achtung baby just stuck where cd didn't because of the quality of the music. Remember when people first heard the fly? Minds were exploding - they'd just never heard anything like it before.

I wish Axl had managed something similar, I really do. You'd of had your own fanclub by now. But no fan-made art section.

That comes down to the guitarist, Slash wasn't the Edge. With Slash you have to stick with the Aero DC stuff, maybe going for less produced Stonesy type albums in the mid period. Slash doesn't like to think in that conceptual way, like bands like U2 think, even Metallica sound like intellectuals compared to Slash. It's more of an instinct thing with Slash. It's a cool sensibility and Axl could have followed him down that route, but he seems like he has his own aesthetic.

But that's what I'm saying, we might have thought GNR was this raw off the cuff band, but really even on AFD Axl was trying to be Queen, taking all the greatest parts of ACDC and Aersmith, Skynard...I mean that's how he talked about SCOM, as the best Lynard Skynard song they could do. Like Better is the best NIN song they could do. Like Nov Rain is the best Elton song they could do.

It's like we were thinking it's ACDC, but Axl is an artist who puts these albums together and he's not tied to a genre. Both Axl and Slash were telling us this all along, slash was always saying I'm rock n roll, I'm Ozzy, I like rock n roll and Axl was always talking about Queen and different musical styles. And we were just like Yeah! Heroin! Rock n Roll! Dancing with Mr Brownstone! Rock N Roll! Axl was saying Elton John blah blah blah and we're like Rock N Roll Duff drank a gallon of vodka a day, this is like Dennis Hoppers meets Aerosmith in hell. Axl is like "I love Fiona Apple" and we we're like "Will CD have Welcome to the Jungle 2 on it? Stripped down rock n roll all the way that's what I'm expecting 14 tracks of hard rocking leather pants in the air metal!!!"

We've been hating and perpetuating, afraid to kick reality.

Axl was certainly the influences man, but cd showed he wasn't necessarily the ideas man.

You'd have thought Axl and Bucket could make an Achtung - it's weird that it didn't come off better. I have a suspicion we talk up bucket too much around here, but I haven't listened to enough of his solo stuff to be sure.

even when Axl got a new band, new guitarists etc, he still tried to make the same album essentially. He did say he wanted to change the sound, not the dynamics or even the songs.

On Achtung Baby they consciously stole the drum beat from Madchester and the industrial flavours from Berlin. They felt they were out of touch with the scene.

Axl seemed to more like "just play it how you play it". Bucket did what he does thinking maybe like Brain, "It's GNR, Led Zeppelin, right?" It's like they were trying to be GNR but fucking it up and getting to sound like a nu metal Achtung baby. Whatever ideas they brought in Axl or whoever GNR-ized it. It's actually the reverse of Achtung which was to sound unlike U2.

Maybe there is an album of songs that the label keep rejecting as it doesn't sound like GNR enough.

They may have had Achtung baby in 2000 but worked up the songs so much it almost sounds like UYI 3 in the end.

Edited October 17, 2013 by wasted

[Intercourse]

It would have been a bigger victory to keep the original UYI band together and come out with a genre defining rock record. That's what makes a great band. Anyone can sack everybody, form a new band and make empty claims about bringing a new sound, its a new fucking band afterall, of course the sound is different.

There are lots of Slash haters here but the quality of the man's layering and recording skills are undeniable.

Put on "Breakdown" then put on "The Blues" and note the difference in how the guitars are layered. Slash has a God given talent for it.

He would never be the Edge but a good producer could have channelled his guitar through some novel effects sounds to see what they could pull out of him in return. The start of "Watch This" on his solo album is an example of where he should have been pushed. He has it in him but needs it extracted.

CD is missing the skills that Izzy & Slash had for setting the scene for Axl to go off on, Duff used his motown influences to bring the swagger inside the beat. CD is too mechanical and drenched.

Has any band posted themselves doing stripped down CD tunes? Not acoustic, just a 5 piece?

[wasted]

The task was maybe making it sound like GNR.

Nobody hates Slash here, anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

I think The Edge is much more open to change, in fact it's what he wants more than anything, it's Bono that wants to rock with satan.

There's no doubt the original GNR had something special.

CD is kind of GNR's pro tools album. There's definitely enough there for me to like.

[CoolRanchDressing]

Production could be virtually non existent to me if the songs were good. But there isn't a decent chorus or a relatable experience on that whole bloated album. What a turd

Edited October 17, 2013 by CoolRanchDressing

[volcano62]

Has any other gnr album divided the fanbase than CD?

No. Mostly because in the past 20 years CD was the ONLY album GnR put out and before that there was no online fanbase to divide.

Certain "fans" were butt hurt over UYI.

I am old enough to remember that.

Except that happens on EVERY album released by EVERY band. No album has every pleased 100% of the band's fan base.

Also the term "butt hurt" isn't accurate.

Not liking an album doesn't mean you are butt hurt. It means that you simply don't like an album.

If you - volcano - don't like an album does that mean you are butt hurt by it?

Ok butt hurt was not the right term to use.

Disappointed and frustrated is more like it.

With that said both albums never bothered me as a fan.

[magisme]

The difference between the reception of UYIs and CD is that while UYI alienated some of the hardcore fanbase, it more than made up for those losses by attracting your average fans of popular music. GNR became the biggest band in the world with UYIs. With CD, well, *crickets*.

[Russel Nash]

The difference between the reception of UYIs and CD is that while UYI alienated some of the hardcore fanbase, it more than made up for those losses by attracting your average fans of popular music. GNR became the biggest band in the world with UYIs. With CD, well, *crickets*.

Once you are one of the biggest you can never go back, GNR still is one of the biggest. Maybe not so dangerous like it did in the past.

The 2002 version of GNR was the most dangerous ever.

[magisme]

The 2002 version of GNR was the most dangerous ever.

Surely you're trolling. And I almost never accuse someone of trolling. And I like the 2002 lineup.

[Guest Len B'stard]

You get the feeling with Axl that if he wasn't chatting about all the people that have wronged him he has no subject matter left. I mean, Catcher in the Rye, really? Every song that he makes that ain't about someone he's got the hump with is like...pretty hollow. If The World, another example...whats that song even about? Sounds like a couple of good lines that he couldn't think of any idea to follow through on.

Perhaps thats what it's really all about, his humpy nature with just about any and everybody, it fuels his existence. I dunno, i guess up trying to psychologise that ridiculous little bloater, if the work had some kinda value to it maybe there'd be a point but it doesn't and hasn't since 1991 sooo...

Edited October 17, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Russel Nash]

The 2002 version of GNR was the most dangerous ever.

Surely you're trolling. And I almost never accuse someone of trolling. And I like the 2002 lineup.

No trolling. In 2002 you buy a ticket to see Axl and the new guys. But you are taking some risk there. The gig can be canceled at anytime, mostly in your face while you are in front row. You never know if your are going back home to the your relatives again cos of the riots. The if the show is on, you know you can get your face melted to the killer sound of bucket guitar, you hear the new solo for nightrain and you know deep inside you that the original one is ruined forever.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Russel Nash

[magisme]

You do know there is no literal danger of melting faces, right? Maybe if you had talked about the danger of a stray nunchuk....

OK, I get it. Definitely trolling.

[Russel Nash]

You do know there is no literal danger of melting faces, right? Maybe if you had talked about the danger of a stray nunchuk....

OK, I get it. Definitely trolling.

Again, no trolling.

Literal danger? maybe. Physical danger is another thing, a toy in the eye can make you blind.

I forgot to mention that it's not a fact, just an opinion. Maybe you think 86 is more dangerous, and you are probably right, who knows.

[magisme]

Off topic: Love your avatar. Wish the colors were a bit more vivid.

[Amir]

You get the feeling with Axl that if he wasn't chatting about all the people that have wronged him he has no subject matter left. I mean, Catcher in the Rye, really? Every song that he makes that ain't about someone he's got the hump with is like...pretty hollow. If The World, another example...whats that song even about? Sounds like a couple of good lines that he couldn't think of any idea to follow through on.

Perhaps thats what it's really all about, his humpy nature with just about any and everybody, it fuels his existence. I dunno, i guess up trying to psychologise that ridiculous little bloater, if the work had some kinda value to it maybe there'd be a point but it doesn't and hasn't since 1991 sooo...

Out Ta Get Me is Axl's mindset. He needs opponents and opposition, it fuels him. He's never going to start writing something like Waterloo by ABBA, is he? Madagascar is Out Ta Get Me Part II, with added martyr complex.

I think I loved CD so much when it came out because I was of a similar mindset, especially with the highs and lows of emotions (see: lyrics in Scraped). Now that I'm more stable, I don't get "lost" in songs like TWAT like I used to, but I still appreciate them. Now I just wish there were more songs of triumph as opposed to nearly everything being miserable; maybe Atlas Shrugged would be more anthemic in its lyrics, like the book?

[CoolRanchDressing]

Maybe the only way you can understand CD is to become a millionaire rock star and get dumped by all your friends, lovers and band mates. Only then can a song like scrapped truly reach you.

[volcano62]

Maybe the only way you can understand CD is to become a millionaire rock star and get dumped by all your friends, lovers and band mates. Only then can a song like scrapped truly reach you.

[HubbaBubba]

Guns were packaged as the 'most dangerous band in the world' in the early 90s. It was just a way of dressing up their flagrant unprofessionalism, which was largely a consequence of axl's behaviour. It seemed cool to a 12 year old. Now, well...... it just sounds a bit gay.

Who wants to go see their favourite band and get ripped off and/or hurt?

[dalsh327]

If an artist wants to make an album their way, end the relationship with the record company and create your own, so you can have complete control over everything.

There's very few artists that have built a successful label, own their masters and publishing. Bad Religion members put together Epitaph, and the label had some platinum selling acts.

[wasted]

Guns were packaged as the 'most dangerous band in the world' in the early 90s. It was just a way of dressing up their flagrant unprofessionalism, which was largely a consequence of axl's behaviour. It seemed cool to a 12 year old. Now, well...... it just sounds a bit gay.

Who wants to go see their favourite band and get ripped off and/or hurt?

I wish I could have been at one of the riot shows. So close at Leeds festival in early 00s.

I think Axl is getting more professional now. He's on time, plays a solid set and goes back for a foot massage.

[HubbaBubba]

Guns were packaged as the 'most dangerous band in the world' in the early 90s. It was just a way of dressing up their flagrant unprofessionalism, which was largely a consequence of axl's behaviour. It seemed cool to a 12 year old. Now, well...... it just sounds a bit gay.

Who wants to go see their favourite band and get ripped off and/or hurt?

I wish I could have been at one of the riot shows. So close at Leeds festival in early 00s.

I think Axl is getting more professional now. He's on time, plays a solid set and goes back for a foot massage.

You were at Leeds? Me too!

I didn't get the riot vibe from that show. He came on late but we'd been beaten up by the Prodigy. Axl threatened later but the crowd was in a pretty good mood.

[wasted]

Guns were packaged as the 'most dangerous band in the world' in the early 90s. It was just a way of dressing up their flagrant unprofessionalism, which was largely a consequence of axl's behaviour. It seemed cool to a 12 year old. Now, well...... it just sounds a bit gay.

Who wants to go see their favourite band and get ripped off and/or hurt?

I wish I could have been at one of the riot shows. So close at Leeds festival in early 00s.

I think Axl is getting more professional now. He's on time, plays a solid set and goes back for a foot massage.

You were at Leeds? Me too!

I didn't get the riot vibe from that show. He came on late but we'd been beaten up by the Prodigy. Axl threatened later but the crowd was in a pretty good mood.

We'll the council let them play later. But still back at the campsite there were people setting fire to the porta toilets. a van of police came and police or horseback.

Like in 91 waiting 4 hours for Axl that was probably the highlight of GNR for me. Total domination, total worship. Perfect Crime opens, total shit insanity. Some times it goes wrong though.