The problem with Chinese Democracy is that I feel like I could tell Axl how to improve every song on the album

[gunnari]

Has any other gnr album divided the fanbase than CD? Just my observation...I wish CD was made in 2010 when Axl had that good sound to his voice and more straightforward rocknroll sound and some bluesy riffs would have saved the album..get rid of the fucking computer generated shit..

[username]

Has any other gnr album divided the fanbase than CD?

No. Mostly because in the past 20 years CD was the ONLY album GnR put out and before that there was no online fanbase to divide.

[Tom2112]

I agree to a point, I mean some of the over the top guitar gymnastics weren't needed, they only served as wow factors for non musicians or teenagers the rest of us went "Really?. I love the album, I listen to it a lot! but there's 2/3 songs on the record that i skip more often than not Scraped and Rhiad being the two main offenders. Catcher is a good song that was nearly ruined by crazy layering, the shredding piano and guitars after the chorus is crazy and a little difficult to listen to if I'm honest. besides that, I really enjoy the album.

What I would do different: less over the top shred, less over the top layering, more focus on arrangements (yes, alot of focus was put into these songs but I can see where others might say they were a mess).

I often hear the musicians that play with Axl say "axl knows how to read an audience, he knows what song to play next" well, lets hope he know what bunch of songs to play next when we get the follow up. Releasing Chinese II is a mistake, it's going to be more of the same - most people on this forum and other NewGnR fans will love it but the other old GnR fans are not going to get anything out of it. Let's hope he makes a Fresh record closer to The Illusions albums mixed with some of the better elements of CD.

[gunnari]

I agree to a point, I mean some of the over the top guitar gymnastics weren't needed, they only served as wow factors for non musicians or teenagers the rest of us went "Really?. I love the album, I listen to it a lot! but there's 2/3 songs on the record that i skip more often than not Scraped and Rhiad being the two main offenders. Catcher is a good song that was nearly ruined by crazy layering, the shredding piano and guitars after the chorus is crazy and a little difficult to listen to if I'm honest. besides that, I really enjoy the album.

What I would do different: less over the top shred, less over the top layering, more focus on arrangements (yes, alot of focus was put into these songs but I can see where others might say they were a mess).

I often hear the musicians that play with Axl say "axl knows how to read an audience, he knows what song to play next" well, lets hope he know what bunch of songs to play next when we get the follow up. Releasing Chinese II is a mistake, it's going to be more of the same - most people on this forum and other NewGnR fans will love it but the other old GnR fans are not going to get anything out of it. Let's hope he makes a Fresh record closer to The Illusions albums mixed with some of the better elements of CD.

More heavier album and bluesy/hardrockish elements...That's Guns N' Fucking Roses!!!

[Guest NGOG]

Maybe you should consider becoming a producer?

Is there really such thing as a perfect song? Ultimately somebody somewhere will say something could be different. That's the beauty of art. It's merely the expression of an imperfect specie.

[Faxl Rows]

Right, right, right....in one, or most, of the TWAT leaks there was this really prominent guitar in the chorus that made the chorus feel really big, expansive even, and for me, even adventurous. Just had a really positive feel about it. Couldn't connect with the final version, making it sound meaner and heavier...eh? Doesn't fit the mood of the song.

[HubbaBubba]

Right, right, right....in one, or most, of the TWAT leaks there was this really prominent guitar in the chorus that made the chorus feel really big, expansive even, and for me, even adventurous. Just had a really positive feel about it. Couldn't connect with the final version, making it sound meaner and heavier...eh? Doesn't fit the mood of the song.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

For me, the leaks tarnished the final album in a unique way I've never experienced with any other band (for obvious reasons). So many of the songs have an earlier comparator, which I frequently preferred. Axl did warn us at the time, saying the leaks would 'spoil the official release'. He must fucking hate msl still.

[Rovim]

I agree to a point, I mean some of the over the top guitar gymnastics weren't needed, they only served as wow factors for non musicians or teenagers the rest of us went "Really?. I love the album, I listen to it a lot! but there's 2/3 songs on the record that i skip more often than not Scraped and Rhiad being the two main offenders. Catcher is a good song that was nearly ruined by crazy layering, the shredding piano and guitars after the chorus is crazy and a little difficult to listen to if I'm honest. besides that, I really enjoy the album.

What I would do different: less over the top shred, less over the top layering, more focus on arrangements (yes, alot of focus was put into these songs but I can see where others might say they were a mess).

I often hear the musicians that play with Axl say "axl knows how to read an audience, he knows what song to play next" well, lets hope he know what bunch of songs to play next when we get the follow up. Releasing Chinese II is a mistake, it's going to be more of the same - most people on this forum and other NewGnR fans will love it but the other old GnR fans are not going to get anything out of it. Let's hope he makes a Fresh record closer to The Illusions albums mixed with some of the better elements of CD.

A fresh record? That will take another 20 years. No thanks. Why not first release what is already 'finished' (Chinese part 2), and then everything else is a bonus. Now we have something to listen to (other then Chinese) while Axl and the band are figuring out how to write and record a fresh record.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Rovim

[axlsalinger]

If only he could take that hate energy, and direct it towards releasing some fucking music every once in a while.

[Rovim]

Right, right, right....in one, or most, of the TWAT leaks there was this really prominent guitar in the chorus that made the chorus feel really big, expansive even, and for me, even adventurous. Just had a really positive feel about it. Couldn't connect with the final version, making it sound meaner and heavier...eh? Doesn't fit the mood of the song.

Yeah, that guitar in the chorus was really cool. Added a lot of character to the song imo. I like the heavy guitar on the official version too though.

Of all the demos that leaked I think the only demo that is much better to my ears compared to the studio version is Catcher, but again, I like that version as well.

[axlsalinger]

I don't think the demos had the really low demon voice saying "it was a long time, it was the wrong time" did they? Love that part.

[Tom2112]

I agree to a point, I mean some of the over the top guitar gymnastics weren't needed, they only served as wow factors for non musicians or teenagers the rest of us went "Really?. I love the album, I listen to it a lot! but there's 2/3 songs on the record that i skip more often than not Scraped and Rhiad being the two main offenders. Catcher is a good song that was nearly ruined by crazy layering, the shredding piano and guitars after the chorus is crazy and a little difficult to listen to if I'm honest. besides that, I really enjoy the album.

What I would do different: less over the top shred, less over the top layering, more focus on arrangements (yes, alot of focus was put into these songs but I can see where others might say they were a mess).

I often hear the musicians that play with Axl say "axl knows how to read an audience, he knows what song to play next" well, lets hope he know what bunch of songs to play next when we get the follow up. Releasing Chinese II is a mistake, it's going to be more of the same - most people on this forum and other NewGnR fans will love it but the other old GnR fans are not going to get anything out of it. Let's hope he makes a Fresh record closer to The Illusions albums mixed with some of the better elements of CD.

A fresh record? That will take another 20 years. No thanks. Why not first release what is already 'finished' (Chinese part 2), and then everything else is a bonus. Now we have something to listen to (other then Chinese) while Axl and the band are figuring out how to write and record a fresh record.

Well do you want another record in the same vein that everybody (excluding uber fans) will hate and mock, or do you want a focussed record that captures what Guns N' Roses is... was. I personally fall on the other side of things. Yes! I want to hear what's already been recorded but! I don't think it's the time for it. People want a Guns N' Roses record that they can drink to, enjoy their partner to... etc, etc. they don't want another introspective ballad filled album. again, I want to hear it, I love the big bombastic ballads but you have to see where the other side are coming from.

Don't turn your back on Chinese altogether, there's some great stuff on that album, instead focus it, use the talent within and write a modern rock record that will shut the naysayers up for good. We've heard what Ron, Richard and Tommy can do... they write guitar heavy catchy rock songs lets use that and make a great record!

As for the Chinese II being finished, complete speculation. Ron gives us straight answers and he says there's nothing being done, I tend to believe him - after all he is in the band... and I know that means very little as nobody in the band has any clue what's going on but, it's more of a clue that we have

[ManetsBR]

Maybe you should consider becoming a producer?

Is there really such thing as a perfect song? Ultimately somebody somewhere will say something could be different. That's the beauty of art. It's merely the expression of an imperfect specie.

That's something Axl failed to unterstand...

[wasted]

I like how it sounds great on a stereo but if you listen on headphones theres all this stuff you pick up. Its like Back in Black meets Kid A.

[kbirdie76]

The problem with Chinese Democracy is that I feel like I could tell Axl how to improve every song on the album. Does anybody else feel the same way?

So to paraphrase - your delusion gathered through the years of pining for guns n roses music, has reached the point where you think you are songwriter extraordinaire (backseat driver, armchair quarterback, <insert other such non-able advisor>).

Good for you.

To paraphrase Randy's point - "Many people think cd is so desperately overcooked - you'd hardly need to think you're a songwriter extraordinaire to feel like you could suggest minor improvements".

...and many people in this thread have suggested minor improvements, largely proving randy correct.

Quit the straw man stuff. He's not claiming to be any sort of songwriter, so don't call him out on it and then attack a position no-one's taking.

Wouldn't you tweak any of the songs on CD? The 'texturing' licks in the verses of cd (the song) have come up more than once. People think they're too much on top of everything else, esp thru headphones. I think that's quite interesting.

I disagree with pretty much what everyone said here

Good. No-one should want it any other way!

You should team up with Randy and help homer build the every man car...

[volcano62]

Has any other gnr album divided the fanbase than CD?

No. Mostly because in the past 20 years CD was the ONLY album GnR put out and before that there was no online fanbase to divide.

Certain "fans" were butt hurt over UYI.

I am old enough to remember that.

[Apollo]

Has any other gnr album divided the fanbase than CD?

No. Mostly because in the past 20 years CD was the ONLY album GnR put out and before that there was no online fanbase to divide.

Certain "fans" were butt hurt over UYI.

I am old enough to remember that.

Except that happens on EVERY album released by EVERY band. No album has every pleased 100% of the band's fan base.

Also the term "butt hurt" isn't accurate.

Not liking an album doesn't mean you are butt hurt. It means that you simply don't like an album.

If you - volcano - don't like an album does that mean you are butt hurt by it?

[smoke]

Has any other gnr album divided the fanbase than CD?

No. Mostly because in the past 20 years CD was the ONLY album GnR put out and before that there was no online fanbase to divide.

Certain "fans" were butt hurt over UYI.

I am old enough to remember that.

Except that happens on EVERY album released by EVERY band. No album has every pleased 100% of the band's fan base.

Also the term "butt hurt" isn't accurate.

Not liking an album doesn't mean you are butt hurt. It means that you simply don't like an album.

If you - volcano - don't like an album does that mean you are butt hurt by it?

Yeah, butt hurt isn't the right term here, but they certainly lost fans when they strayed into bombastic piano epics. Unlike CD though, they probably gained more new fans than they lost.

[rockerman]

Axl should have said screw the band and made an acoustic record by himself.

Holy sh*t, thanks for sharing this one.

I think it has the CD version beat. What a nice arrangement. Between the verses it could use a little breathing room from somewhere but other than that, A+.

Wow...is that Axls son by some groupie? I dig what he did with that song... the lyrics jump out at you more importantly than they do on the record and the simplicity of the music just makes this song GO. He even gets some of Axls tonality into the song as well and that makes his take on the song amazing. True in this song..less is more.

[wasted]

People just want everything pigeon holed these days and in some cases, maybe even GNR's case, that is good. Like you get a product from ACDC or whoever you can trust. But the best thing about CD is that it's unique, you listen to it and think what is this? To some that means "didn't deliver what I like, therefore it sucks" and that's fine. I don't always expect that from a band I already like for one thing but it's still what I'm looking for, something different. A record that's jumping from Nirvana to Korn to NIN then hits you with an Elton john song? I'm all in, whether it's GNR, whether they pulled it off perfectly, I'm definitely still interested.

[HubbaBubba]

People just want everything pigeon holed these days and in some cases, maybe even GNR's case, that is good. Like you get a product from ACDC or whoever you can trust. But the best thing about CD is that it's unique, you listen to it and think what is this? To some that means "didn't deliver what I like, therefore it sucks" and that's fine. I don't always expect that from a band I already like for one thing but it's still what I'm looking for, something different. A record that's jumping from Nirvana to Korn to NIN then hits you with an Elton john song? I'm all in, whether it's GNR, whether they pulled it off perfectly, I'm definitely still interested.

Have to agree that you can't knock variety. ACDC have some great songs, but a whole day of them just flays me.

It's just that some of the individual tunes making up the variety on cd aren't very good IMO. Still a journey tho.

[wasted]

People just want everything pigeon holed these days and in some cases, maybe even GNR's case, that is good. Like you get a product from ACDC or whoever you can trust. But the best thing about CD is that it's unique, you listen to it and think what is this? To some that means "didn't deliver what I like, therefore it sucks" and that's fine. I don't always expect that from a band I already like for one thing but it's still what I'm looking for, something different. A record that's jumping from Nirvana to Korn to NIN then hits you with an Elton john song? I'm all in, whether it's GNR, whether they pulled it off perfectly, I'm definitely still interested.

Have to agree that you can't knock variety. ACDC have some great songs, but a whole day of them just flays me.

It's just that some of the individual tunes making up the variety on cd aren't very good IMO. Still a journey tho.

For me Riad and IRS aren't as interesting as some of the others but they do a job. GNR has always been a melting pot, it leaned more to hard rock for a while, to take risks is a good thing. Obviously they could get Mike Clink to produce and grind out AFD after UYI after AFD forever. But I appreciate you get the record CD and it's not just autopilot, maybe they did over do it here and there but at least CD has an identity of it's own, it's not UYI or AFD.

[HubbaBubba]

People just want everything pigeon holed these days and in some cases, maybe even GNR's case, that is good. Like you get a product from ACDC or whoever you can trust. But the best thing about CD is that it's unique, you listen to it and think what is this? To some that means "didn't deliver what I like, therefore it sucks" and that's fine. I don't always expect that from a band I already like for one thing but it's still what I'm looking for, something different. A record that's jumping from Nirvana to Korn to NIN then hits you with an Elton john song? I'm all in, whether it's GNR, whether they pulled it off perfectly, I'm definitely still interested.

Have to agree that you can't knock variety. ACDC have some great songs, but a whole day of them just flays me.

It's just that some of the individual tunes making up the variety on cd aren't very good IMO. Still a journey tho.

For me Riad and IRS aren't as interesting as some of the others but they do a job. GNR has always been a melting pot, it leaned more to hard rock for a while, to take risks is a good thing. Obviously they could get Mike Clink to produce and grind out AFD after UYI after AFD forever. But I appreciate you get the record CD and it's not just autopilot, maybe they did over do it here and there but at least CD has an identity of it's own, it's not UYI or AFD.

The parallels with the Achtung Baby situation are definitely there. But to make a success of that evolution, I think Axl would've needed at least one of the other originals to retain the gnr sound. Maybe not slash, like you say. Probably izzy.

As it stands it was change, not evolution. Axl couldn't effectively evolve the gnr sound on his own - think that's my bottom line.

[Bobbo]

He needed, at least, both Izzy and Slash. They were the most essential members to gnrs music along with Axl, of course.

[HubbaBubba]

UYI hardly divided the fanbase.

The music wasn't considered as immediately brilliant as afd, but I think given the monster their debut album was, gnr got through their awkward 2nd (& 3rd) album phases amazingly well.

And that's because the chemistry was there. It still would be, if only they'd all cut the crap.