The problem with Chinese Democracy is that I feel like I could tell Axl how to improve every song on the album

[gunnari]

The whole record would need some re-recording..

[RussTCB]

The problem seems to be Axl himself felt he could improve every song on the album and look at what we got ....

This is a great point. A lot of times when I hear extra clutter in the background I think "Damn it. That just was not needed" but I know that for whatever reason, Axl sure thought it was.

[onetimer]

The problem seems to be Axl himself felt he could improve every song on the album and look at what we got ....

This is a great point. A lot of times when I hear extra clutter in the background I think "Damn it. That just was not needed" but I know that for whatever reason, Axl sure thought it was.

... but on the other hand,... from what I've read (even here) ...Axl delivered finished (according to Axl) album to some producer/sound engineer or who-the-hell-it-was (sorry can't remember his name) around 2002 and had dinner with this guy.

This guy told Axl it's not finished and in his opinion Axl was capable of MORE, ...and that he liked only 2 songs.

Axl responded "it's finished" and would never contact that guy anymore.

So, there must be many other variations of the songs ( that should / could have made it out somehow for public ), but didn't.

I'm sure Chinese Democracy would've had more fans, cause people would have a choice, somewhere between RAW and OVER-PRODUCED.

But I remember Axl mentioned it was very difficult to deal with producers/label to get things done, because everybody seemed to boycott the new band, and tended to see more $ if they all operated to make re-union happen.

Personally I'd like it more raw.

I own a pretty good stereo and while sometimes it's breath-taking how it's all layered and shit, ...it's still a mess, and it's hard to concentrate on every aspect of the songs.

I can't blame GN'R because I really don't know what was the deal/ problems/ circumstances with the label.

Edited October 15, 2013 by onetimer

[Teroz]

Well yeah, that is sort of the case. Alot of that has to do with all the leaks and live versions that I heard before the release. You know: Madagascar sounded way better live 2001-2002 than the final version, so did the Blues... The chopped the great Brian May solo out and replaced it with that horrible solo... Too much of everything on Better, way too much of everything on Madagascar (should have cut half of the tracks on it)...

Actually Chinese Democracy is the only one the leaked songs/live performed songs I do not have anything bad to say when compared to the first live versions or early leaks. The studio version works great IMO.

[wasted]

The problem seems to be Axl himself felt he could improve every song on the album and look at what we got ....

This is a great point. A lot of times when I hear extra clutter in the background I think "Damn it. That just was not needed" but I know that for whatever reason, Axl sure thought it was.

... but on the other hand,... from what I've read (even here) ...Axl delivered finished (according to Axl) album to some producer/sound engineer or who-the-hell-it-was (sorry can't remember his name) around 2002 and had dinner with this guy.

This guy told Axl it's not finished and in his opinion Axl was capable of MORE, ...and that he liked only 2 songs.

Axl responded "it's finished" and would never contact that guy anymore.

So, there must be many other variations of the songs ( that should / could have made it out somehow for public ), but didn't.

I'm sure Chinese Democracy would've had more fans, cause people would have a choice, somewhere between RAW and OVER-PRODUCED.

But I remember Axl mentioned it was very difficult to deal with producers/label to get things done, because everybody seemed to boycott the new band, and tented to see more $ if they all operated to make re-union happen.

Personally I'd like it more raw.

I own a pretty good stereo and while sometimes it's breath-taking how it's all layered and shit, ...it's still a mess, and it's hard to concentrate on every aspect of the songs.

I can't blame GN'R because I really don't know what was the deal/ problems/ circumstances with the label.

Bob Ezrin is the Yoko Ono of CD.

[EvH]

Remove these stupid multi tracked vocals from the title song, as a start.

[phaeryen]

Remove these stupid multi tracked vocals from the title song, as a start.

how about the three intros. to a song that required none.

[wasted]

Randy are you gonna list the things to change? I have an idea what could be. For me Id switch Riad and Scraped maybe or erase the riad intro.

[GivenToFly]

Everyone finds things they'd want to change but there aren't many that everyone or most people can agree on.

What most people agree on is that Scraped and Riad are bad and they shouldn't be there. But Riad is my favorite song on the album. I'd replace literally any other song before replacing Riad.

[axlsalinger]

I like every song on the album. But the two worst (imo), are definitely Scraped and Riad.

[Apollo]

No offense Randy, but you could not have written that music, composed anything, you probably can't read music, or are in a band, so instead of starting a thread about a 5 year old CD ( the CD you PMED me about personally, and said was amazing and was gonna be huge) in hindsight, maybe you should just shut the fuck up, cause I doubt you could compose a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich.

Seriously, seems so easy to nitpick, when most of you guys can't do shit, and will never accomplish anything in your lives as successfully as he does. So Axl writes a solid, if not great CD, and you guys wanna pick on a track overlay like that would have changed anything? Get the fuck over yourself.

Hey Randy, why don't you start a thread about how much cooler you could make Pavoratti sing? What is the Beetoven site too busy? You gotta slum it here?

Dope.

There is definitely a problem with the scope of the material, as in the songs that probably sound great in a simple stripped down mode have been layered up to fit in with some of the other more complex stuff. The Blues would have been too ordinary to sit next to Shackler's and Scraped.

Yeah, man too bad you aren't talented or famous, or you could have saved the CD.

Just let it fucking go man, how long has it been since the CD came out?

Mrs. Angry is BACK and on the attack. People aren't trying to go to war here, child. They are just chatting about a singer, on that's singer fan forum. There is no reason for the personal attacks on posters who have a different opinion than you do.

You also don't know how talented, famous or successful ANY of the posters on here are. The rest of us don't define on our lives on what a rock singer does. You might worship a rock singer's every move, but not everybody defines their lives compared to Axl Rose.

YOU are the one who needs to get over yourself.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Groghan

[kbirdie76]

The problem with Chinese Democracy is that I feel like I could tell Axl how to improve every song on the album. Does anybody else feel the same way?

So to paraphrase - your delusion gathered through the years of pining for guns n roses music, has reached the point where you think you are songwriter extraordinaire (backseat driver, armchair quarterback, <insert other such non-able advisor>).

Good for you.

[vaida]

I own Chinese Democracy, and i never play it. The album is weird. There's no vibe. It's lumpy. It's sections. It's built like Lego. When i did play the album, i'd fast forward to the small, all too few moments, like a guitar solo, and like little sections. It's lacking, the whole album lacks something. It lacks Guns N'Roses ;P

[WhazUp]

So Axl writes a solid, if not great CD, and you guys wanna pick on a track overlay like that would have changed anything? Get the fuck over yourself.

You make it sound like having an opinion of a song and what you would have liked to hear in said tune is this huge deal and that you can ONLY have that opinion if you are as famous as the band, etc. This is a discussion board, what is there to talk about if we don't have our own opinions to discuss?

The whole "oh yeah if you think you could do better where is your own hit song" argument is just one big logical fallacy

Edited October 15, 2013 by WhazUp

[WhazUp]

This is a great point. A lot of times when I hear extra clutter in the background I think "Damn it. That just was not needed" but I know that for whatever reason, Axl sure thought it was.

Catcher is my prime example of this. The demo has a lot more space and breathing room so I think that is why a lot of people prefer it to the studio version. In the studio version there are a of different guitar parts going on that take up that space and while it makes the song sound fuller it gives it that cluttered sound as well. To me the demo has a lot more impact because of the breathing room it has

[EvH]

Remove these stupid multi tracked vocals from the title song, as a start.

how about the three intros. to a song that required none.

The three vocal layers bug me a lot more than the intro. Builds momentum, to me.

[username]

"Go back to the 2000 version of the album"

There. Done. Based on TWAT, IRS, CITR and the Checkmate clip that would have been great. That was before they fucked it all up with layering 847 multi-tracks per instrument and added another 387 vocal trakcs per song. The overall sound seems more coherent in those demo's too. I know it's hard to judge with just 3,1 songs, but still. Seems like it was more rocking and straight forward, instead of trying (and failing) to make every track some huge epic thing with a wall of sound and all the intro's, effects, odds and bods...

I still want that album. CD 2000.

[gunnari]

I own Chinese Democracy, and i never play it. The album is weird. There's no vibe. It's lumpy. It's sections. It's built like Lego. When i did play the album, i'd fast forward to the small, all too few moments, like a guitar solo, and like little sections. It's lacking, the whole album lacks something. It lacks Guns N'Roses ;P

I would describe CD without a soul..It's as empty as that basket on the front cover of the album..

[NEU-YORK]

Those boings in Better in the heavy part completely ruin that song for me. They're all rocking out and then there's a cool rock pause (it's the notes you don't' hear) and there's this.... boing sound....which kills the rockiness of it all for me. Just don't get why on earth they left that bit in there!!! It's bugged me from the first time I heard it. I can't rock out with that shit going on! I've tried to ignore it and at the live shows at least you don't notice it.

The outro to Catcher should not have passed anyone's ear test. Nothing wrong with the solos but the mix is just such a mess!

Edited October 15, 2013 by NEU-YORK

[gunnari]

the most piece of shit song on this album is Riad..what the fuck was Axl thinking when he released this song??? Other song is If The World..Has Axl changed his musical style to hiphop all of a sudden???? Arghhhhhhh!!!! Gives me just headache to think of these songs

[username]

the most piece of shit song on this album is Riad..what the fuck was Axl thinking when he released this song??? Other song is If The World..Has Axl changed his musical style to hiphop all of a sudden???? Arghhhhhhh!!!! Gives me just headache to think of these songs

Couldn't disagree more. Rhiad (if done properly) could be the rocker the album needs in a mess of attempted epics and ITW probably has more single-potential than anything on the album.

The poorest song imo is Scraped. There's nothing even remotely good about it. Second is TIL. Boring high pitched whine-fest that hurts your ears.

Edited October 15, 2013 by username

[ManetsBR]

I disagree with pretty much what everyone said here

Edited October 15, 2013 by ManetsBR

[HubbaBubba]

The problem with Chinese Democracy is that I feel like I could tell Axl how to improve every song on the album. Does anybody else feel the same way?

So to paraphrase - your delusion gathered through the years of pining for guns n roses music, has reached the point where you think you are songwriter extraordinaire (backseat driver, armchair quarterback, <insert other such non-able advisor>).

Good for you.

To paraphrase Randy's point - "Many people think cd is so desperately overcooked - you'd hardly need to think you're a songwriter extraordinaire to feel like you could suggest minor improvements".

...and many people in this thread have suggested minor improvements, largely proving randy correct.

Quit the straw man stuff. He's not claiming to be any sort of songwriter, so don't call him out on it and then attack a position no-one's taking.

Wouldn't you tweak any of the songs on CD? The 'texturing' licks in the verses of cd (the song) have come up more than once. People think they're too much on top of everything else, esp thru headphones. I think that's quite interesting.

I disagree with pretty much what everyone said here

Good. No-one should want it any other way!

[ManetsBR]

Hey, as it's been pointed out before on this topic, there are many songs and albums from other bands where anyone can think "this part would have been better that way..."

Doesn't you're right - or wrong. There are no wrong opinions.

Edited October 15, 2013 by ManetsBR

[WhazUp]

The problem with Chinese Democracy is that I feel like I could tell Axl how to improve every song on the album. Does anybody else feel the same way?

So to paraphrase - your delusion gathered through the years of pining for guns n roses music, has reached the point where you think you are songwriter extraordinaire (backseat driver, armchair quarterback, <insert other such non-able advisor>).

Good for you.

Or rather - someone with an opinion on the music is commenting on said music

Seriously it is like people don't understand the concept of differing opinions