CD deserved a competent audience

[wasted]

I don't think it's over layered or fussy.

if you don't like layers at all then yeah. It's a change from Mike Clink production which is pretty bare bones, which is what some think GNR were and should always be.

IRS and Catcher are probably my favorites and they are meant to be a mess.

[Rovim]

You know, not everybody like onions.

[wasted]

I told you about strawberry field the place where nothing is real.

[classicrawker]

It's not a solo record because Bucket and Finck and Brain had real creative input into the sound of the songs. Axl himself said a solo record would sound different. Just because it doesn't sound like your mother's GnR, doesn't mean it's a "solo record." Axl may run the show, but this ain't like, oh let's say David Lee Roth's Eat Em & Smile band.

Solo artists get input from musicians that play on their albums mate especially in Axl's case as he cannot play all the instruments himself...................on Slash's first solo album the guest singers wrote the lyrics so does that mean it was not a solo album because Slash did not write the whole thing?

Just because Axl called it Guns N roses album does not mean it was not really a solo effort.....and lets not forget the ex members you mentioned were all Axl's employees.................and yeah I read where he said it would have been different if it had been "real solo album" but exactly how different would it have been? As you and the other Axl fans like to continually point out "Axl is GNR" after all...............

I don't think it's over layered or fussy.

if you don't like layers at all then yeah. It's a change from Mike Clink production which is pretty bare bones, which is what some think GNR were and should always be.

IRS and Catcher are probably my favorites and they are meant to be a mess.

they were meant to be a mess? and you know this how?

[saber_]

It's not a solo record because Bucket and Finck and Brain had real creative input into the sound of the songs. Axl himself said a solo record would sound different. Just because it doesn't sound like your mother's GnR, doesn't mean it's a "solo record." Axl may run the show, but this ain't like, oh let's say David Lee Roth's Eat Em & Smile band.

Solo artists get input from musicians that play on their albums mate especially in Axl's case as he cannot play all the instruments himself...................on Slash's first solo album the guest singers wrote the lyrics so does that mean it was not a solo album because Slash did not write the whole thing?

Just because Axl called it Guns N roses album does not mean it was not really a solo effort.....and lets not forget the ex members you mentioned were all Axl's employees.................and yeah I read where he said it would have been different if it had been "real solo album" but exactly how different would it have been? As you and the other Axl fans like to continually point out "Axl is GNR" after all...............

I'm just sayin Buckethead's and Finck's input on the album precludes it from being a solo album. Some of those songs are Bucket songs with an Axl twist, not Axl songs with a Buckethead twist.

To me, a solo album has the connotation of being something more centralized around the solo artist. I don't think Chinese Democracy qualifies in that respect.

[Rovim]

It's not a solo record because Bucket and Finck and Brain had real creative input into the sound of the songs. Axl himself said a solo record would sound different. Just because it doesn't sound like your mother's GnR, doesn't mean it's a "solo record." Axl may run the show, but this ain't like, oh let's say David Lee Roth's Eat Em & Smile band.

Solo artists get input from musicians that play on their albums mate especially in Axl's case as he cannot play all the instruments himself...................on Slash's first solo album the guest singers wrote the lyrics so does that mean it was not a solo album because Slash did not write the whole thing?

Just because Axl called it Guns N roses album does not mean it was not really a solo effort.....and lets not forget the ex members you mentioned were all Axl's employees.................and yeah I read where he said it would have been different if it had been "real solo album" but exactly how different would it have been? As you and the other Axl fans like to continually point out "Axl is GNR" after all...............

I don't think it's over layered or fussy.

if you don't like layers at all then yeah. It's a change from Mike Clink production which is pretty bare bones, which is what some think GNR were and should always be.

IRS and Catcher are probably my favorites and they are meant to be a mess.

they were meant to be a mess? and you know this how?

The comparison between Chinese and Slash's first solo album is problematic imo. Many song ideas were brought to Axl as full ideas. Better by Robin, If The World by Pitman, Shackler's, Sorry and Scraped by Bucket,just to name a few.

A song like Chinese Democracy would not exist if it wasn't for Josh Freese. It was a collaborative effort in the sense that the band members helped shape the way the album turned out. Their contributions were crucial to the work.

Slash wrote all the instrumentals and the guest singers mostly added vocals and lyrics later. The extent of their influence over the album was not nearly as big.

Axl attempted to write a Guns N' Roses album when making Chinese. That means the core of what makes a Guns song what it is, was being considered. The goal here, imo, was to take the classic Gn'R sound, update it, make it fresh and modern, but not abandon completely what has been built before with the old albums.

So he tried different approaches for Chinese, so you got some UYI sounding songs (Street Of Dreams, This I Love) and more modern songs, unheard of for Gn'R (Shackler's, Prostitute, Better)

Finding the balance between preserving the core of what you can't change in a Gn'R song and introducing new sounds (different genres and sub genres) was something I'm guessing was of major concern for Axl. Not really the case for a solo artist trying to write a solo record and doing whatever the fuck he wants and not considering the musical history of his past work.

It was an evolution, not something totally new. (regardless of what your opinion may be about the quality of the final product)

Axl also said that a solo album would have been more instrumenal. Not as many vocals if any.

Wasted's comment about IRS and Catcher was probably just his opinon about listening to it and guessing it was intended by those who were responsible for making it sound messy cause he thinks it works for these specific songs. At least, that's my guess so don't ask me for a source.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Rovim

[classicrawker]

ok ms and rovim you both made valid points maybe chidem is not as close to a solo project as I suspected.....

[wasted]

Gotta agree somewhat. The thing is though, it would have been easier to define CD as it's own thing if it was not released as GN'R. So Axl is at least partly "guilty" for creating incorrect expectations towards it

It is a great fucking original record. Not the best thing ever but very good

Cd couldn't have been Cd as merely an Axl record though. I can see what he was saying about the name pushing the music.

Not too mention, that he'd never get $14 mil to work on an Axl Rose solo record.

I agree with he would never have gotten he $$$ for a solo album as the GnR brand name sells albums but come on it really is a solo album in everything but name only..........

It's not a solo album, Axl didn't write all the songs. Axl may have had enough songs to release a solo album though. If he hadn't included Finck and Bucket songs. Axl doesn't seem to write a lot of guitar parts.

[wasted]

It's not a solo record because Bucket and Finck and Brain had real creative input into the sound of the songs. Axl himself said a solo record would sound different. Just because it doesn't sound like your mother's GnR, doesn't mean it's a "solo record." Axl may run the show, but this ain't like, oh let's say David Lee Roth's Eat Em & Smile band.

Solo artists get input from musicians that play on their albums mate especially in Axl's case as he cannot play all the instruments himself...................on Slash's first solo album the guest singers wrote the lyrics so does that mean it was not a solo album because Slash did not write the whole thing?

Just because Axl called it Guns N roses album does not mean it was not really a solo effort.....and lets not forget the ex members you mentioned were all Axl's employees.................and yeah I read where he said it would have been different if it had been "real solo album" but exactly how different would it have been? As you and the other Axl fans like to continually point out "Axl is GNR" after all...............

I don't think it's over layered or fussy.

if you don't like layers at all then yeah. It's a change from Mike Clink production which is pretty bare bones, which is what some think GNR were and should always be.

IRS and Catcher are probably my favorites and they are meant to be a mess.

they were meant to be a mess? and you know this how?

The comparison between Chinese and Slash's first solo album is problematic imo. Many song ideas were brought to Axl as full ideas. Better by Robin, If The World by Pitman, Shackler's, Sorry and Scraped by Bucket,just to name a few.

A song like Chinese Democracy would not exist if it wasn't for Josh Freese. It was a collaborative effort in the sense that the band members helped shape the way the album turned out. Their contributions were crucial to the work.

Slash wrote all the instrumentals and the guest singers mostly added vocals and lyrics later. The extent of their influence over the album was not nearly as big.

Axl attempted to write a Guns N' Roses album when making Chinese. That means the core of what makes a Guns song what it is, was being considered. The goal here, imo, was to take the classic Gn'R sound, update it, make it fresh and modern, but not abandon completely what has been built before with the old albums.

So he tried different approaches for Chinese, so you got some UYI sounding songs (Street Of Dreams, This I Love) and more modern songs, unheard of for Gn'R (Shackler's, Prostitute, Better)

Finding the balance between preserving the core of what you can't change in a Gn'R song and introducing new sounds (different genres and sub genres) was something I'm guessing was of major concern for Axl. Not really the case for a solo artist trying to write a solo record and doing whatever the fuck he wants and not considering the musical history of his past work.

It was an evolution, not something totally new. (regardless of what your opinion may be about the quality of the final product)

Axl also said that a solo album would have been more instrumenal. Not as many vocals if any.

Wasted's comment about IRS and Catcher was probably just his opinon about listening to it and guessing it was intended by those who were responsible for making it sound messy cause he thinks it works for these specific songs. At least, that's my guess so don't ask me for a source.

actually reading what I wrote, I was referring to how people say those songs are a bit of a mess, not meant as a mess per say, maybe looser to match the lyrical content.

I do think Catcher was meant to have a sort of fuzzy psychedelia and IRS to match the rage with a more off kilter cacophonous sound. The layers and stuff suit the songs imo

CD was done in a similar approach to other GNR albums with everyone bringing, not a solo at all.

SOD

TWAT

Catcher

Madagascar

TIL

Prostitute

might qualify as an Axl Rose solo album. Not sure about IRS. Riad is Stinson/Rose. Basically all Axl did was collaborate with everyone and get them to work on his songs too?

Edited January 1, 2014 by wasted

[Bono]

Hahahaha! Wooooo!!! Gotta love this fucking whack excuses. CD didn't have a competent audience? What in the fuck? Are you kidding me? Some of you are so delusional it's not even funny.

And then to go on and act as if Guns N' Roses is so intelligently and artistically superior to bands like Motley Crue, Posion. Skid Row and if as an adult you've enjoyed any of those bands to please refrain from the discussion? Holy fuck some GnR fans are some crazy fucking lunatics who have gone so far off the deep end I feel so badly for them

[Mr. Dude]

Case in point ^

I love the gigantic guitar army onslaught type of sound on IRS. I think it would have made for a good single.

[Rovim]

It's not a solo record because Bucket and Finck and Brain had real creative input into the sound of the songs. Axl himself said a solo record would sound different. Just because it doesn't sound like your mother's GnR, doesn't mean it's a "solo record." Axl may run the show, but this ain't like, oh let's say David Lee Roth's Eat Em & Smile band.

Solo artists get input from musicians that play on their albums mate especially in Axl's case as he cannot play all the instruments himself...................on Slash's first solo album the guest singers wrote the lyrics so does that mean it was not a solo album because Slash did not write the whole thing?

Just because Axl called it Guns N roses album does not mean it was not really a solo effort.....and lets not forget the ex members you mentioned were all Axl's employees.................and yeah I read where he said it would have been different if it had been "real solo album" but exactly how different would it have been? As you and the other Axl fans like to continually point out "Axl is GNR" after all...............

I don't think it's over layered or fussy.

if you don't like layers at all then yeah. It's a change from Mike Clink production which is pretty bare bones, which is what some think GNR were and should always be.

IRS and Catcher are probably my favorites and they are meant to be a mess.

they were meant to be a mess? and you know this how?

The comparison between Chinese and Slash's first solo album is problematic imo. Many song ideas were brought to Axl as full ideas. Better by Robin, If The World by Pitman, Shackler's, Sorry and Scraped by Bucket,just to name a few.

A song like Chinese Democracy would not exist if it wasn't for Josh Freese. It was a collaborative effort in the sense that the band members helped shape the way the album turned out. Their contributions were crucial to the work.

Slash wrote all the instrumentals and the guest singers mostly added vocals and lyrics later. The extent of their influence over the album was not nearly as big.

Axl attempted to write a Guns N' Roses album when making Chinese. That means the core of what makes a Guns song what it is, was being considered. The goal here, imo, was to take the classic Gn'R sound, update it, make it fresh and modern, but not abandon completely what has been built before with the old albums.

So he tried different approaches for Chinese, so you got some UYI sounding songs (Street Of Dreams, This I Love) and more modern songs, unheard of for Gn'R (Shackler's, Prostitute, Better)

Finding the balance between preserving the core of what you can't change in a Gn'R song and introducing new sounds (different genres and sub genres) was something I'm guessing was of major concern for Axl. Not really the case for a solo artist trying to write a solo record and doing whatever the fuck he wants and not considering the musical history of his past work.

It was an evolution, not something totally new. (regardless of what your opinion may be about the quality of the final product)

Axl also said that a solo album would have been more instrumenal. Not as many vocals if any.

Wasted's comment about IRS and Catcher was probably just his opinon about listening to it and guessing it was intended by those who were responsible for making it sound messy cause he thinks it works for these specific songs. At least, that's my guess so don't ask me for a source.

actually reading what I wrote, I was referring to how people say those songs are a bit of a mess, not meant as a mess per say, maybe looser to match the lyrical content.

I do think Catcher was meant to have a sort of fuzzy psychedelia and IRS to match the rage with a more off kilter cacophonous sound. The layers and stuff suit the songs imo

CD was done in a similar approach to other GNR albums with everyone bringing, not a solo at all.

SOD

TWAT

Catcher

Madagascar

TIL

Prostitute

might qualify as an Axl Rose solo album. Not sure about IRS. Riad is Stinson/Rose. Basically all Axl did was collaborate with everyone and get them to work on his songs too?

I'm pretty sure Dizzy wrote that piano riff at the start of Street Of Dreams and other piano parts in the song.

Paul Huge was involved in writing Prostitute, There Was A Time and I.R.S (not the only songs he helped with)

Axl was the director of CD in addition to writing a lot of it and bringing songs like Oh My God and This I love to the table.

Shackler's is a really good example for a song that you would not think could work as a Guns song as it had all the qualities of a Bucket solo song (which it was imo) and Axl was able to make it work as a Guns song cause he knew how to 'attack' it in order to make it work in the context of a Guns album. Same thing with If The World.

His ability to transform something cool to magic is a very important talent when you consider his abilities and limitations as a songwriter.

I don't think it's all Axl did, but it was mostly what he did with Chinese. And writing all the lyrics and vocal melodies, writing some guitar parts, piano parts, as well as being one of the producers to the extent where he would cut and paste solos together like May's Catcher solo (with help from one more guy in the studio)

He was deeply involved with the process, but there is no way he could have pulled it off without the contributions of the major players that were in the band at the time.

Josh Freese said in an interview he wrote 3 or 4 AAA songs when he was in Guns. It seems Axl welcomed input from the rest of the members like he always did in old Guns.

He's not Trent or Prince. He can't write a Guns album without the help of others, but in the end it sounded like a Guns N' Roses album to me which was a big part of Axl's goal in the first place with Chinese so as long as you're willing to wait, Axl can deliver.

He never made a bad album imo so what he put into it personally was enough for me. Too bad we only got one album since new Guns was put together. The quality was never the problem, but one album is not enough imo.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Rovim

[Mr. Dude]

It's not a solo record because Bucket and Finck and Brain had real creative input into the sound of the songs. Axl himself said a solo record would sound different. Just because it doesn't sound like your mother's GnR, doesn't mean it's a "solo record." Axl may run the show, but this ain't like, oh let's say David Lee Roth's Eat Em & Smile band.

Solo artists get input from musicians that play on their albums mate especially in Axl's case as he cannot play all the instruments himself...................on Slash's first solo album the guest singers wrote the lyrics so does that mean it was not a solo album because Slash did not write the whole thing?

Just because Axl called it Guns N roses album does not mean it was not really a solo effort.....and lets not forget the ex members you mentioned were all Axl's employees.................and yeah I read where he said it would have been different if it had been "real solo album" but exactly how different would it have been? As you and the other Axl fans like to continually point out "Axl is GNR" after all...............

I don't think it's over layered or fussy.

if you don't like layers at all then yeah. It's a change from Mike Clink production which is pretty bare bones, which is what some think GNR were and should always be.

IRS and Catcher are probably my favorites and they are meant to be a mess.

they were meant to be a mess? and you know this how?

The comparison between Chinese and Slash's first solo album is problematic imo. Many song ideas were brought to Axl as full ideas. Better by Robin, If The World by Pitman, Shackler's, Sorry and Scraped by Bucket,just to name a few.

A song like Chinese Democracy would not exist if it wasn't for Josh Freese. It was a collaborative effort in the sense that the band members helped shape the way the album turned out. Their contributions were crucial to the work.

Slash wrote all the instrumentals and the guest singers mostly added vocals and lyrics later. The extent of their influence over the album was not nearly as big.

Axl attempted to write a Guns N' Roses album when making Chinese. That means the core of what makes a Guns song what it is, was being considered. The goal here, imo, was to take the classic Gn'R sound, update it, make it fresh and modern, but not abandon completely what has been built before with the old albums.

So he tried different approaches for Chinese, so you got some UYI sounding songs (Street Of Dreams, This I Love) and more modern songs, unheard of for Gn'R (Shackler's, Prostitute, Better)

Finding the balance between preserving the core of what you can't change in a Gn'R song and introducing new sounds (different genres and sub genres) was something I'm guessing was of major concern for Axl. Not really the case for a solo artist trying to write a solo record and doing whatever the fuck he wants and not considering the musical history of his past work.

It was an evolution, not something totally new. (regardless of what your opinion may be about the quality of the final product)

Axl also said that a solo album would have been more instrumenal. Not as many vocals if any.

Wasted's comment about IRS and Catcher was probably just his opinon about listening to it and guessing it was intended by those who were responsible for making it sound messy cause he thinks it works for these specific songs. At least, that's my guess so don't ask me for a source.

actually reading what I wrote, I was referring to how people say those songs are a bit of a mess, not meant as a mess per say, maybe looser to match the lyrical content.

I do think Catcher was meant to have a sort of fuzzy psychedelia and IRS to match the rage with a more off kilter cacophonous sound. The layers and stuff suit the songs imo

CD was done in a similar approach to other GNR albums with everyone bringing, not a solo at all.

SOD

TWAT

Catcher

Madagascar

TIL

Prostitute

might qualify as an Axl Rose solo album. Not sure about IRS. Riad is Stinson/Rose. Basically all Axl did was collaborate with everyone and get them to work on his songs too?

I'm pretty sure Dizzy wrote that piano riff at the start of Street Of Dreams and other piano parts in the song.

Paul Huge was involved in writing Prostitute, There Was A Time and I.R.S (not the only songs he helped with)

Axl was the director of CD in addition to writing a lot of it and bringing songs like Oh My God and This I love to the table.

Shackler's is a really good example for a song that you would not think could work as a Guns song as it had all the qualities of a Bucket solo song (which it was imo) and Axl was able to make it work as a Guns song cause he knew how to 'attack' it in order to make it work in the context of a Guns album. Same thing with If The World.

His ability to transform something cool to magic is a very important talent when you consider his abilities and limitations as a songwriter.

I don't think it's all Axl did, but it was mostly what he did with Chinese. And writing all the lyrics and vocal melodies, writing some guitar parts, piano parts, as well as being one of the producers to the extent where he would cut and paste solos together like May's Catcher solo (with help from one more guy in the studio)

He was deeply involved with the process, but there is no way he could have pulled it off without the contributions of the major players that were in the band at the time.

Josh Freese said in an interview he wrote 3 or 4 AAA songs when he was in Guns. It seems Axl welcomed input from the rest of the members like he always did in old Guns.

He's not Trent or Prince. He can't write a Guns album without the help of others, but in the end it sounded like a Guns N' Roses album to me which was a big part of Axl's goal in the first place with Chinese so as long as you're willing to wait, Axl can deliver.

He never made a bad album imo so what he put into it personally was enough for me. Too bad we only got one album since new Guns was put together. The quality was never the problem, but one album is not enough imo.

I agree. CD is definitely a Guns album. There's a sense of familiarity in the sound, but more so in the feeling. It sounds and feels like a logical evolution moving forward from the Illusions. I think to Axl GNR is a standard that the players and the material have to live up to. I think some of the past members started to feel like THEY were GNR (as opposed to the songs representing and defining GNR) and that the standards had to adjust to them- as opposed to the other way around. For me Guns is much more about the sound and feeling of the songs than it ever was about the players. As a fan of every era of GNR and as fan of music at large, I think its dishonest to deny the merits of CD. Maybe if AFD was all you ever liked I can understand it, but if you liked the Illusions there's plenty for you on CD.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Mr. Dude

[Rovim]

I get an old school Guns vibe from certain songs on Chinese.

Chinese - Axl is going for that WTTJ thing with the structure and that intro/intro scream

Shackler's - Axl in It's So Easy mode with the low voice thing dictating the mood.

Better - is kinda like SCOM in many ways.

Street Of Dreams - obvious UYI vibe.

There Was A Time - epic in the same vein of November Rain and Estranged

Riad - Axl's vocal delivery reminds me a lot of his AFD tone.

I.R.S - a modern Out Ta Get Me.

This I Love - no need to explain. Like a mini November Rain.

It's like in a way, many songs try to first prove they retain the Guns factor, but then they introduce new things to the Guns sound.

Some are more of a departure then others though.

[wasted]

It's not a solo record because Bucket and Finck and Brain had real creative input into the sound of the songs. Axl himself said a solo record would sound different. Just because it doesn't sound like your mother's GnR, doesn't mean it's a "solo record." Axl may run the show, but this ain't like, oh let's say David Lee Roth's Eat Em & Smile band.

Solo artists get input from musicians that play on their albums mate especially in Axl's case as he cannot play all the instruments himself...................on Slash's first solo album the guest singers wrote the lyrics so does that mean it was not a solo album because Slash did not write the whole thing?

Just because Axl called it Guns N roses album does not mean it was not really a solo effort.....and lets not forget the ex members you mentioned were all Axl's employees.................and yeah I read where he said it would have been different if it had been "real solo album" but exactly how different would it have been? As you and the other Axl fans like to continually point out "Axl is GNR" after all...............

I don't think it's over layered or fussy.

if you don't like layers at all then yeah. It's a change from Mike Clink production which is pretty bare bones, which is what some think GNR were and should always be.

IRS and Catcher are probably my favorites and they are meant to be a mess.

they were meant to be a mess? and you know this how?

The comparison between Chinese and Slash's first solo album is problematic imo. Many song ideas were brought to Axl as full ideas. Better by Robin, If The World by Pitman, Shackler's, Sorry and Scraped by Bucket,just to name a few.

A song like Chinese Democracy would not exist if it wasn't for Josh Freese. It was a collaborative effort in the sense that the band members helped shape the way the album turned out. Their contributions were crucial to the work.

Slash wrote all the instrumentals and the guest singers mostly added vocals and lyrics later. The extent of their influence over the album was not nearly as big.

Axl attempted to write a Guns N' Roses album when making Chinese. That means the core of what makes a Guns song what it is, was being considered. The goal here, imo, was to take the classic Gn'R sound, update it, make it fresh and modern, but not abandon completely what has been built before with the old albums.

So he tried different approaches for Chinese, so you got some UYI sounding songs (Street Of Dreams, This I Love) and more modern songs, unheard of for Gn'R (Shackler's, Prostitute, Better)

Finding the balance between preserving the core of what you can't change in a Gn'R song and introducing new sounds (different genres and sub genres) was something I'm guessing was of major concern for Axl. Not really the case for a solo artist trying to write a solo record and doing whatever the fuck he wants and not considering the musical history of his past work.

It was an evolution, not something totally new. (regardless of what your opinion may be about the quality of the final product)

Axl also said that a solo album would have been more instrumenal. Not as many vocals if any.

Wasted's comment about IRS and Catcher was probably just his opinon about listening to it and guessing it was intended by those who were responsible for making it sound messy cause he thinks it works for these specific songs. At least, that's my guess so don't ask me for a source.

actually reading what I wrote, I was referring to how people say those songs are a bit of a mess, not meant as a mess per say, maybe looser to match the lyrical content.

I do think Catcher was meant to have a sort of fuzzy psychedelia and IRS to match the rage with a more off kilter cacophonous sound. The layers and stuff suit the songs imo

CD was done in a similar approach to other GNR albums with everyone bringing, not a solo at all.

SOD

TWAT

Catcher

Madagascar

TIL

Prostitute

might qualify as an Axl Rose solo album. Not sure about IRS. Riad is Stinson/Rose. Basically all Axl did was collaborate with everyone and get them to work on his songs too?

I'm pretty sure Dizzy wrote that piano riff at the start of Street Of Dreams and other piano parts in the song.

Paul Huge was involved in writing Prostitute, There Was A Time and I.R.S (not the only songs he helped with)

Axl was the director of CD in addition to writing a lot of it and bringing songs like Oh My God and This I love to the table.

Shackler's is a really good example for a song that you would not think could work as a Guns song as it had all the qualities of a Bucket solo song (which it was imo) and Axl was able to make it work as a Guns song cause he knew how to 'attack' it in order to make it work in the context of a Guns album. Same thing with If The World.

His ability to transform something cool to magic is a very important talent when you consider his abilities and limitations as a songwriter.

I don't think it's all Axl did, but it was mostly what he did with Chinese. And writing all the lyrics and vocal melodies, writing some guitar parts, piano parts, as well as being one of the producers to the extent where he would cut and paste solos together like May's Catcher solo (with help from one more guy in the studio)

He was deeply involved with the process, but there is no way he could have pulled it off without the contributions of the major players that were in the band at the time.

Josh Freese said in an interview he wrote 3 or 4 AAA songs when he was in Guns. It seems Axl welcomed input from the rest of the members like he always did in old Guns.

He's not Trent or Prince. He can't write a Guns album without the help of others, but in the end it sounded like a Guns N' Roses album to me which was a big part of Axl's goal in the first place with Chinese so as long as you're willing to wait, Axl can deliver.

He never made a bad album imo so what he put into it personally was enough for me. Too bad we only got one album since new Guns was put together. The quality was never the problem, but one album is not enough imo.

Do you think his input warrants it as a solo album though. Which songs on CD are his sole credit? I think Tobias gets credit for helping do Axl's songs.

My hunch is that CD was no different to other GNR records. Although UYI the component parts are separated more. CD is like AFD.

I get an old school Guns vibe from certain songs on Chinese.

Chinese - Axl is going for that WTTJ thing with the structure and that intro/intro scream

Shackler's - Axl in It's So Easy mode with the low voice thing dictating the mood.

Better - is kinda like SCOM in many ways.

Street Of Dreams - obvious UYI vibe.

There Was A Time - epic in the same vein of November Rain and Estranged

Riad - Axl's vocal delivery reminds me a lot of his AFD tone.

I.R.S - a modern Out Ta Get Me.

This I Love - no need to explain. Like a mini November Rain.

It's like in a way, many songs try to first prove they retain the Guns factor, but then they introduce new things to the Guns sound.

Some are more of a departure then others though.

Madagascar very Civil War vibe if a bit more down.

Catcher is like an epic song off Lies.

ITW is like Heaven's Door

Scraped is the most AFD vibe like Out ta get me meets Prodigy

Sorry is a remake of Don't Cry with AIC and PF as influences

Prostitute is like a cross between Rocket Queen and Coma in a weird stretching reach around I'll do anything kind of way.

quid pro quo Axl is GNR.

[magisme]

You know what?

Maybe after a few pulls I will give CD another listen to night. Haven't listened to it in years. Maybe my opinion has changed.

I've tried that probably at least a hundred times. Album still sucks.

[Rovim]

Wasted: Chinese is definitely not a solo album imo. Like you said, it was put together much like AFD. Like Axl said Appetite was "worked on and worked on", only with Chinese, the scale was different and many people were needed to turn Axl's vision into a reality.

It was ambitious cause it was like, now there are no excuses - Axl had a huge budget, and something to prove, but also now he didn't have to make everyone else in the band happy musically. This is why I think some may look at it like a solo thing. That, and because he's the only original member left, but it's far from being the case.

Slash said it was the perfect Axl Rose solo album, which probably makes sense if you were such a big part of the classic Guns sound and albums, but it was really a collaborative effort.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Rovim

[magisme]

It was ambitious cause it was like, now there are no excuses

If you read this forum, there are plenty of excuses.

[Bono]

I love the righteousness of some who go on and on and on with excuse after excuse as to why people who don't like CD. They either never gave it a fair chance, or they hated it only because they hate Axl Rose, or they're a Slash fan or they aren't educated enough musically, or they have a mullet, or don't appreciate the layers and textures of the art, or they like Poison, or they just didn't like the image of new GnR or it wasn't promoted properly or they are lying about not liking it....... Do some of you never tire of making whack excuses? Who are you trying to convince anymore? The people who don't like it that they should or yourself that you really do like it? Its like some of you, your enjoyment of the album hinge son whether or not others enjoy it or if you can justify why they don't with stupid reasons.

[Damn_Smooth]

I love the righteousness of some who go on and on and on with excuse after excuse as to why people who don't like CD. They either never gave it a fair chance, or they hated it only because they hate Axl Rose, or they're a Slash fan or they aren't educated enough musically, or they have a mullet, or don't appreciate the layers and textures of the art, or they like Poison, or they just didn't like the image of new GnR or it wasn't promoted properly or they are lying about not liking it....... Do some of you never tire of making whack excuses? Who are you trying to convince anymore? The people who don't like it that they should or yourself that you really do like it? Its like some of you, your enjoyment of the album hinge son whether or not others enjoy it or if you can justify why they don't with stupid reasons.

If at first you don't succeed, try again with a bigger wall of text. Maybe someone will give you the attention you're craving this time.

[Bono]

I love the righteousness of some who go on and on and on with excuse after excuse as to why people who don't like CD. They either never gave it a fair chance, or they hated it only because they hate Axl Rose, or they're a Slash fan or they aren't educated enough musically, or they have a mullet, or don't appreciate the layers and textures of the art, or they like Poison, or they just didn't like the image of new GnR or it wasn't promoted properly or they are lying about not liking it....... Do some of you never tire of making whack excuses? Who are you trying to convince anymore? The people who don't like it that they should or yourself that you really do like it? Its like some of you, your enjoyment of the album hinge son whether or not others enjoy it or if you can justify why they don't with stupid reasons.

If at first you don't succeed, try again with a bigger wall of text. Maybe someone will give you the attention you're craving this time.

Haha yeah I post once every few weeks cause I'm dying for attention. No I post only once every few weeks anymore cause of the sheer lunacy that has become GnR fans. Nothing but a bunch of weirdos lost in their own delusions. Like Magisme said in another thread some of you are completely insane. You've lost all touch with reality. Absolutely zero grasp on it. It's like some of you have become religious zealots.

[Damn_Smooth]

3 words. You're...an...idiot.

No wall of text needed.

[Bono]

3 words. You're...an...idiot.

No wall of text needed.

Oh wow. no wall of text needed. Fine I'm an idiot. An idiot who sees the lunacy that is you and others. I think I pegged it perfectly. Fucking weirdo GnR zealots

[Damn_Smooth]

3 words. You're...an...idiot.

No wall of text needed.

Oh wow. no wall of text needed. Fine I'm an idiot. An idiot who sees the lunacy that is you and others. I think I pegged it perfectly. Fucking weirdo GnR zealots

Now you're seeing things. Guess I needed 4 words. You're...a...delusional...idiot.

[Rovim]

I love the righteousness of some who go on and on and on with excuse after excuse as to why people who don't like CD. They either never gave it a fair chance, or they hated it only because they hate Axl Rose, or they're a Slash fan or they aren't educated enough musically, or they have a mullet, or don't appreciate the layers and textures of the art, or they like Poison, or they just didn't like the image of new GnR or it wasn't promoted properly or they are lying about not liking it....... Do some of you never tire of making whack excuses? Who are you trying to convince anymore? The people who don't like it that they should or yourself that you really do like it? Its like some of you, your enjoyment of the album hinge son whether or not others enjoy it or if you can justify why they don't with stupid reasons.

If at first you don't succeed, try again with a bigger wall of text. Maybe someone will give you the attention you're craving this time.

Haha yeah I post once every few weeks cause I'm dying for attention. No I post only once every few weeks anymore cause of the sheer lunacy that has become GnR fans. Nothing but a bunch of weirdos lost in their own delusions. Like Magisme said in another thread some of you are completely insane. You've lost all touch with reality. Absolutely zero grasp on it. It's like some of you have become religious zealots.

Yeah, what a crazy thing: People liking Chinese in a Gn'R forum.

The 'insane' people you are talking about are just a tiny fraction of the online fanbase. Most fans of Chinese just share their views about the album and everything that surrounded it just cause it's fun discussing with others what they relate to.

Saying it sucks over and over again is kinda pointless imo. Trust me, fans of it know others think it's shit/not real Gn'R. People like you made damn sure of that, and you seem to enjoy mocking others just because they like it. It's just as 'insane' repeating the same negative shit over and over again as defending it to death.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Rovim