GnR - a Global band......bigger than just the US

[Apollo]

Whenever somebody brings up the factual evidence that GnR's album and concert numbers have been dwindling, Axl's defense team are always quick to point out that we arrogant Americans think that the world revolves around the US and that GnR is a global band and not just an American band.

They imply that we are just trying to be negative and are missing the point on how popular and successful GnR is.

Being somebody who likes to look at both sides of the argument get all opinions before making up my mind, I decided to do a little research and was shocked to find these numbers. I thought for sure that the numbers would all be reversed from what they actually turned out to be.

Here are "certified" album sales, by country. The numbers are a little lower than you would expect, as the numbers your favorite band "tells" you are often not correct. Bands often exaggerate or use different counting methods, then fans/reporters hear that number and exaggerate or round up, etc. But this is actually certificate album sales, not the number a band tells you. Anyway -

• US: 48.5 million^[6]
• JPN: 1.1 million^{[Notes][7][8]}
• UK: 4.7 million^[9]
• GER: 4.1 million^[10]
• FRA: 1 million^[11]
• AUS: 635,000^[Notes][14]
• CAN: 3.5 million^[15]
• BRA: 100,000^[Notes][16]
• ITA: 250,000^[Notes][42]
• SWE: 485,000^[17]
• SPA: 450,000^[18][19][32]
• SWI: 365,000^[Notes][20]
• BEL: 165,000^{[Notes][21][22]}
• ARG: 1 million^[Notes][25]
• IRE: 105,000^[Notes][118]

• So GnR has sold more albums in the United States than they have sold in EVERY other country combined.............this is confusing, as according to some posters on here, GnR shouldn't be concerned with their US numbers as they are a global based band who is more popular overseas than they are in the US. The numbers show that this is clearly not the case. But some people are really adamant that they are.
• Your thoughts on the actual numbers?

[ARBeast]

My thoughts? Ok, but I'm going to post something that involves common sense, mixed with some..LOGIC!!!

Several posters in here don't like America, with at least 90% of those posters being jealous.

GNR has a great fan base outside of America, but hey, they are American.

[TombRaider]

Old GnR has indeed millions of fans worldwide.

[Snowmass]

Brazil should be embarrassed. LOL.

[Facekicker]

A list with numbers? Soulmonster is going to jizz his pants.

[IndiannaRose]

Your argument is mute. When people are speaking of the issue, they are referring to touring figures. Obviously, album sales matters, but most of those records sold consist of music made by the old band. Also, you must take account of the ratio of people within those countries in relation to the number of records sold (in addition to rates of disposable income, size/relevance of the country's music industry, etc.).

It is no opinion that this current incarnation of the group has had much more success (in a live setting) outside of the Unites States as opposed to within. That is a fact.

Edited October 29, 2013 by IndiannaRose

[Snowmass]

It is no opinion that this current incarnation of the group has had much more success (in a live setting) outside of the Unites States as opposed to within. That is a fact.

Yeah pretty much anyone sells out in 3rd world countries and places bands rarely hit. I bet some of these 3rd worlds think they saw Guns n Roses too LOL. Also in the US people can normally hit 3-4 shows a tour as its an easy drive or atleast easy to travel from city to city for people.....quick flight and/or drive.

[Padme]

As far as I know CD went platinum in the U.S. 48 millions is several platinum. Am I correct? Are we talking about all GN´R albums?

Brazil only 100.000? LOL!!!!

Something just doesn´t up here

[gunnari]

You forgot Finland on that list CD went platinum pretty quickly in my country

Edited October 29, 2013 by gunnari

[saber_]

*facepalm*

The bottom line is this:

Chinese Democracy went platinum in many countries around the world. Most normal people regard platinum as successful. However, to be fair, for a Guns n Roses album it could be viewed as underperforming. Nonetheless, Chinese Democracy topped the album charts for many countries.

Furthermore, GnR has put up some big touring numbers outside of the U.S. Check the stats for South America, India, and some other shows. Guns n Roses still has plenty of appeal to the casual and consummate fan alike.

It's not really clear what the OP is trying to prove here. Or wait, let me guess, he's showing the "worshippers" that their *ahem* collective universally agreed upon idealogy is wrong. Well braaaavo.

Here are the chart positions for Chinese Democracy. This is one way to interpret "popularity."

Edited October 29, 2013 by brainsaber

[Gunzen]

That is a pointless OP because that is back when there were no digital downloads, and people actually bought albums. Now they just steal, stream, and or buy individual songs. Popularity is more based on fan attendance, and I am pretty sure they draw better in other countries for the reason I have stated before. The United States is filled with a bunch of self entitled people who will take their ball and go home if they can't have it their way.

What gets lost in all of these discussions is the music and shows. There is so much sniping and editorializing on things that happened 20 years ago, that people in the US forget that if you get value for your money, just go, if not, go somewhere else. Here, people would rather log on hundreds (or thousands of times) to bitch about something they cannot have. I just don't see people in other countries doing this. They are not spoiled and are just happy to have music and a show.

I don't think I will ever fully understand why people come on a forum and post about things they have no control over or that happened over 20 years ago hundreds of times. It is weird. Things change in every facet of life, but for some reason the people on this board seem to think Axl is not allowed to because they didn't want him to.

I don't know how many of you have the same job, and work with the same people for the last twenty years, but apparently, that is what Axl was supposed to do. No exceptions.

Other countries care less about TMZ and drama, and more about music. I am from the US, and this is one spoiled ass, entitlement attitude places to be.

[SoulMonster]

I think the OP has misunderstood something. The discussion is whether GN'R has lost popularity in USA today and is currently bigger and more popular in other countries. This cannot be proven one way or another by pointing to the accumulated sale of records throughout GN'R's history. The way to prove it is compare changes in ticket sales in USA and whatever countries that are of interest and point out any changes in attendance numbers both within one country and between countries of comparison.

So no, no jizz here, abuse of beautiful lists make me only very, very angry. And now people with inchoate brains will interpret that sentence literally.

[axlrod]

Whenever somebody brings up the factual evidence that GnR's album and concert numbers have been dwindling, Axl's defense team are always quick to point out that we arrogant Americans think that the world revolves around the US and that GnR is a global band and not just an American band.

They imply that we are just trying to be negative and are missing the point on how popular and successful GnR is.

Being somebody who likes to look at both sides of the argument get all opinions before making up my mind, I decided to do a little research and was shocked to find these numbers. I thought for sure that the numbers would all be reversed from what they actually turned out to be.

Here are "certified" album sales, by country. The numbers are a little lower than you would expect, as the numbers your favorite band "tells" you are often not correct. Bands often exaggerate or use different counting methods, then fans/reporters hear that number and exaggerate or round up, etc. But this is actually certificate album sales, not the number a band tells you. Anyway -

• US: 48.5 million^[6]
• JPN: 1.1 million^{[Notes][7][8]}
• UK: 4.7 million^[9]
• GER: 4.1 million^[10]
• FRA: 1 million^[11]
• AUS: 635,000^[Notes][14]
• CAN: 3.5 million^[15]
• BRA: 100,000^[Notes][16]
• ITA: 250,000^[Notes][42]
• SWE: 485,000^[17]
• SPA: 450,000^[18][19][32]
• SWI: 365,000^[Notes][20]
• BEL: 165,000^{[Notes][21][22]}
• ARG: 1 million^[Notes][25]
• IRE: 105,000^[Notes][118]

• So GnR has sold more albums in the United States than they have sold in EVERY other country combined.............this is confusing, as according to some posters on here, GnR shouldn't be concerned with their US numbers as they are a global based band who is more popular overseas than they are in the US. The numbers show that this is clearly not the case. But some people are really adamant that they are.
• Your thoughts on the actual numbers?

You gathered round 66m total.

Where's half of it?

Other source:

The band has released six studio albums to date, accumulating sales of MORE than 100 million records worldwide,[9] including shipments of 45 million in the United States,[10] making them one of the world’s best-selling bands of all time.

Edited October 29, 2013 by axlrod

[Caught in a Coma]

Whenever somebody brings up the factual evidence that GnR's album and concert numbers have been dwindling, Axl's defense team are always quick to point out that we arrogant Americans think that the world revolves around the US and that GnR is a global band and not just an American band.

They imply that we are just trying to be negative and are missing the point on how popular and successful GnR is.

Being somebody who likes to look at both sides of the argument get all opinions before making up my mind, I decided to do a little research and was shocked to find these numbers. I thought for sure that the numbers would all be reversed from what they actually turned out to be.

Here are "certified" album sales, by country. The numbers are a little lower than you would expect, as the numbers your favorite band "tells" you are often not correct. Bands often exaggerate or use different counting methods, then fans/reporters hear that number and exaggerate or round up, etc. But this is actually certificate album sales, not the number a band tells you. Anyway -

• US: 48.5 million^[6]
• JPN: 1.1 million^{[Notes][7][8]}
• UK: 4.7 million^[9]
• GER: 4.1 million^[10]
• FRA: 1 million^[11]
• AUS: 635,000^[Notes][14]
• CAN: 3.5 million^[15]
• BRA: 100,000^[Notes][16]
• ITA: 250,000^[Notes][42]
• SWE: 485,000^[17]
• SPA: 450,000^[18][19][32]
• SWI: 365,000^[Notes][20]
• BEL: 165,000^{[Notes][21][22]}
• ARG: 1 million^[Notes][25]
• IRE: 105,000^[Notes][118]

• So GnR has sold more albums in the United States than they have sold in EVERY other country combined.............this is confusing, as according to some posters on here, GnR shouldn't be concerned with their US numbers as they are a global based band who is more popular overseas than they are in the US. The numbers show that this is clearly not the case. But some people are really adamant that they are.
• Your thoughts on the actual numbers?

You gathered round 66m total.

Where's half of it?

Other source:

The band has released six studio albums to date, accumulating sales of MORE than 100 million records worldwide,[9] including shipments of 45 million in the United States,[10] making them one of the worlds best-selling bands of all time.

He only put certified sales

[Apollo]

Funny to see the posters who got mad about this list. Or who chose to also include insults in their posts.

Whenever somebody posts that GnR's popularity is down, the new mantra is that US numbers don't matter and that GnR is still a powerhouse overseas. Interesting logic, as GnR is an American based band. I suppose these are the same people who will say that the Red Sox/Cardinals winner is not the "real World Series champions" because they didn't defeat Japan or Cuba's best team.

Brainsaber, who whines and cries that I'm stalking him and demands I stop responding to his posts, chooses to respond to my topics - which is odd in itself. But what can you do. His response is to post a list of his own that somehow (in his mind) disproves my list (which is a factual list, no opinion in it). CD reaching number one in Canada or Slovene doesn't give you ANY comparison data at all. How many copies does one have to sell to reach number one in Slovene??? How many weeks did it stay there?

Maybe the Canada one is a good one to use as we have some things to add to it. Hit number one of their charts. Earlier this year GnR did some shows in Canada and failed to sell out a 3,000 seat venue. They did however sell out the 2,400 seat venue. HHmmm. So GnR is a band that can reasonably be excepted to play - and sometimes sell out - Canadian venues in the 2,500-to-3,000 seat range. Well HELL, you guys are right.

GnR is still as popular as ever overseas.

You guys who worship and praise Axl's every move keep doing so. It really is fun to watch. Brainsaber can make post jerking off icons and Soulmonster can win/ridicule and educate all of us. Gunzen can post angry rants at people who aren't praising Axl's every move. This is the guy who said NOBODY has the right to judge a GnR performance off of Youtube.....then an hour later made a post that Axl sounds awesome live - his proof being that his wife walked by his computer and heard Axl singing on Youtube!!!!!!!!! (you seriously can't make this stuff up).

The rest of us will continue supporting our favorite singer and hoping he'll put out another album in the near future (oh crap, that will bring pages of responses of how GnR puts out music on the same time frame as other major bands and how much of an entitled jerk I am for wanting new music). I'll continue to love Chinese Democracy, but do so with a clear and logical understanding of where the band sits in terms of success and popularity.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Groghan

[SoulMonster]

Whenever somebody posts that GnR's popularity is down, the new mantra is that US numbers don't matter and that GnR is still a powerhouse overseas.

No, this is just something else you have misunderstood. Of course it matters to GN'R when a market under-performs, especially one as large as the US. It just might not matter to individual fans how they do in that specific country.

Maybe the Canada one is a good one to use as we have some things to add to it. Hit number one of their charts. Earlier this year GnR did some shows in Canada and failed to sell out a 3,000 seat venue. They did however sell out the 2,400 seat venue. HHmmm. So GnR is a band that can reasonably be excepted to play - and sometimes sell out - Canadian venues in the 2,500-to-3,000 seat range. Well HELL, you guys are right.

GnR is still as popular as ever overseas.

I don't think anyone is claiming that GN'R is as popular today as before. This is just something you have decided to rage against regardless of whether someone actually is of this very opinion. I think what you perhaps could make a case of arguing against is statements saying that "GN'R is AS popular today in the USA as they were in 2002", or "as popular today in Brazil as they were in 1993", but I am unsure of whether anyone would disagree with you on these points. Basically you are fighting strawmen and I am unsure of whether you do this deliberately to be able to insult people or because you actually are this disoriented in regards to what people are saying.

You guys who worship and praise Axl's every move keep doing so. It really is fun to watch. Brainsaber can make post jerking off icons and Soulmonster can win/ridicule and educate all of us. Gunzen can post angry rants at people who aren't praising Axl's every move. This is the guy who said NOBODY has the right to judge a GnR performance off of Youtube.....then an hour later made a post that Axl sounds awesome live - his proof being that his wife walked by his computer and heard Axl singing on Youtube!!!!!!!!! (you seriously can't make this stuff up).

You, on the other hand, obviously can make stuff up, like claiming I "worship and praise Axl's every move". Don't you get it that my despise for you trumps any love I might have for Axl (which is zero)? Whenever I disagree with your points I do it because I disagree with your points and find them silly/flawed/outrageous/etc and NOT, as your mind tries to convince you into thinking, that I have to do it because I worship Axl and must defend him. This isn't defending Axl, it is attacking your rambling and inaccurate thoughts which you for unknown reasons decide to share with us.

The rest of us will continue supporting our favorite singer and hoping he'll put out another album in the near future (oh crap, that will bring pages of responses of how GnR puts out music on the same time frame as other major bands and how much of an entitled jerk I am for wanting new music). I'll continue to love Chinese Democracy, but do so with a clear and logical understanding of where the band sits in terms of success and popularity.

Heh, you didn't demonstrate much of that "clear and logical understanding" when you pasted overall sales figures in an effort to prove your point that US is currently the largest market for touring.

[IndiannaRose]

Funny to see the posters who got mad about this list. Or who chose to also include insults in their posts.

Whenever somebody posts that GnR's popularity is down, the new mantra is that US numbers don't matter and that GnR is still a powerhouse overseas. Interesting logic, as GnR is an American based band. I suppose these are the same people who will say that the Red Sox/Cardinals winner is not the "real World Series champions" because they didn't defeat Japan or Cuba's best team.

Brainsaber, who whines and cries that I'm stalking him and demands I stop responding to his posts, chooses to respond to my topics - which is odd in itself. But what can you do. His response is to post a list of his own that somehow (in his mind) disproves my list (which is a factual list, no opinion in it). CD reaching number one in Canada or Slovene doesn't give you ANY comparison data at all. How many copies does one have to sell to reach number one in Slovene??? How many weeks did it stay there?

Maybe the Canada one is a good one to use as we have some things to add to it. Hit number one of their charts. Earlier this year GnR did some shows in Canada and failed to sell out a 3,000 seat venue. They did however sell out the 2,400 seat venue. HHmmm. So GnR is a band that can reasonably be excepted to play - and sometimes sell out - Canadian venues in the 2,500-to-3,000 seat range. Well HELL, you guys are right.

GnR is still as popular as ever overseas.

You guys who worship and praise Axl's every move keep doing so. It really is fun to watch. Brainsaber can make post jerking off icons and Soulmonster can win/ridicule and educate all of us. Gunzen can post angry rants at people who aren't praising Axl's every move. This is the guy who said NOBODY has the right to judge a GnR performance off of Youtube.....then an hour later made a post that Axl sounds awesome live - his proof being that his wife walked by his computer and heard Axl singing on Youtube!!!!!!!!! (you seriously can't make this stuff up).

The rest of us will continue supporting our favorite singer and hoping he'll put out another album in the near future (oh crap, that will bring pages of responses of how GnR puts out music on the same time frame as other major bands and how much of an entitled jerk I am for wanting new music). I'll continue to love Chinese Democracy, but do so with a clear and logical understanding of where the band sits in terms of success and popularity.

What are you talking about? This is very simple:

On average (that is, per show), Guns N' Roses today sells more concert tickets outside of the United States as opposed to within. As a matter of fact, this is true for most major international acts (for reasons already cited in this topic).

The majority of your post is irrelevant, "holier than thou" garbage.

[wasted]

I think they'd still want the other 50 mil world wide sales.

They do seem like they could survive without the US, but they must play more shows in the US when they really get down to it. But I think they get crazy money for playing one off shows in Afghanistan. Don't they play to 80k crowds in brazil. Then do like 10 shows to 6k in the US. Swings and Roller-coasters.

So yes GNR is a global band as much as anyone is. Half they sales are overseas.

[Russel Nash]

Let me get this straight. If America is USA to you ppl, in which continent is located "America"? Is Canada part of this continent too?

[T.wa.T]

Whenever somebody brings up the factual evidence that GnR's album and concert numbers have been dwindling, Axl's defense team are always quick to point out that we arrogant Americans think that the world revolves around the US and that GnR is a global band and not just an American band.

They imply that we are just trying to be negative and are missing the point on how popular and successful GnR is.

Being somebody who likes to look at both sides of the argument get all opinions before making up my mind, I decided to do a little research and was shocked to find these numbers. I thought for sure that the numbers would all be reversed from what they actually turned out to be.

Here are "certified" album sales, by country. The numbers are a little lower than you would expect, as the numbers your favorite band "tells" you are often not correct. Bands often exaggerate or use different counting methods, then fans/reporters hear that number and exaggerate or round up, etc. But this is actually certificate album sales, not the number a band tells you. Anyway -

• US: 48.5 million^[6]
• JPN: 1.1 million^{[Notes][7][8]}
• UK: 4.7 million^[9]
• GER: 4.1 million^[10]
• FRA: 1 million^[11]
• AUS: 635,000^[Notes][14]
• CAN: 3.5 million^[15]
• BRA: 100,000^[Notes][16]
• ITA: 250,000^[Notes][42]
• SWE: 485,000^[17]
• SPA: 450,000^[18][19][32]
• SWI: 365,000^[Notes][20]
• BEL: 165,000^{[Notes][21][22]}
• ARG: 1 million^[Notes][25]
• IRE: 105,000^[Notes][118]

• So GnR has sold more albums in the United States than they have sold in EVERY other country combined.............this is confusing, as according to some posters on here, GnR shouldn't be concerned with their US numbers as they are a global based band who is more popular overseas than they are in the US. The numbers show that this is clearly not the case. But some people are really adamant that they are.
• Your thoughts on the actual numbers?

Good post.

I remember back in their glory days, seeing alot of magazine covers dubbing them Americas band or ' the worlds most dangerous band' with a picture of Axl and Slash onstage. Axl would have his American flag shorts on.

What's amazing is how hard it is for the fans in the US to accept this lineup. It shows how much we loved their music back then, with the classic five.

Let me get this straight. If America is USA to you ppl, in which continent is located "America"? Is Canada part of this continent too?

Canada is part of North America.

[Chris 55]

Whenever somebody posts that GnR's popularity is down, the new mantra is that US numbers don't matter and that GnR is still a powerhouse overseas. Interesting logic, as GnR is an American based band.

It's the same with movies. A good portion of American movies that do OK or poorly here mostly earn a profit overseas. Pacific Rim for example: http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=pacificrim.htm

[Tom2112]

There's no question about GnRs popularity, they are no way near as popular as they were 20 years ago. Even though the music quality hasn't really dipped, public perception of the band has... Media, a healthy dose of Axl bullshit and record company bullshit. It's quite normal for bands to have a bigger sales in America than any other country look at the population! also, there's a ton of bands that make a career on just playing America, they never touch europe or SA just North America and maybe Canada - they don't have to there's plenty of money to be made in America alone. Guns came around Europe a lot in the last 10 years and people bought tikets because there was a lot of buzz... CD sales however were down, like every other band in 2008 (considering there was no obvious single the album did pretty well). America are less forgiving of bullshit, if GnR released an album that had obvious singles they could tour and play better venues all across the US.