Why don't blacks ever get taped saying racist things?

[Dazey]

Michael Irvin

The noted loudmouth went on a national radio show in 2006 and had this to say about Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo He doesnt look like hes that type of an athlete. But he is. He is, man. I dont know some brother down in that line somewhere I dont know who saw what or where, his great-great-great-great-grandma ran over in the hood or something went down.

Call it whatever you want but that shit's fuckin' funny!

[DieselDaisy]

The slave trade was operated by blacks. The transatlantic trade was built upon an already pre-existing internal African trade. The trade had been going on for centuries - well before Europeans arrived - and involved the muslims from North Africa. This fact is often ignored amidst the ideology of, political correctness.

That has no relevance to American racism, at all.

It has everything to do with American racism if, black Americans are going to constantly bring up the 'slave' thing.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Please I'm so sick of the blacks playing the slave card.

If they cared so much, then they would get educated and try to do better for their race.

People all over the world suffer everyday of their lives and no one gives a shit.

Africa is one of the worst places to live on earth. They should be happy they aren't still living there.

Only in America can you become a rap star after you've been a thief or pimp and make tons of money. I'm so sick of their bitching. Get even by getting a good education and try to be a better people.

I had a very hard time in high school because I was white and my brother was mugged on a subway train back in the 70's. Luckily he and his friend got away, but no one gave a shit and not one black person helped them when a bunch of blacks came on the train and said " here's two more whities".

Stop blaming other people for your stupidity.

I'd like to THANK GOD for hip hop culture. I wanna put in to fuckin' take a vow of hip hoppery for the rest of my life, for as long as there are people like you on this earth that music has a fuckin' righteous purpose, FUCK YOU and have a nice day

Run, the n-egroes are coming! Is it any wonder they didn't help you, look what kinda person you are, shit, I been wishing death on you for about 5 minutes now and i don't even know you, you don't strike me as the kinda person that inspires the spirit of human kindness in people there Val.

In fact, you sound like a bit of a cunt, if I may be so bold. And if i can't well then up yours cuz i just have. Thank you

Edited May 1, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Johnny Drama]

Please I'm so sick of the blacks playing the slave card.

If they cared so much, then they would get educated and try to do better for their race.

People all over the world suffer everyday of their lives and no one gives a shit.

Africa is one of the worst places to live on earth. They should be happy they aren't still living there.

Only in America can you become a rap star after you've been a thief or pimp and make tons of money. I'm so sick of their bitching. Get even by getting a good education and try to be a better people.

I had a very hard time in high school because I was white and my brother was mugged on a subway train back in the 70's. Luckily he and his friend got away, but no one gave a shit and not one black person helped them when a bunch of blacks came on the train and said " here's two more whities".

Stop blaming other people for your stupidity.

I'd like to THANK GOD for hip hop culture. I wanna put in to fuckin' take a vow of hip hoppery for the rest of my life, for as long as there are people like you on this earth that music has a fuckin' righteous purpose, FUCK YOU and have a nice day

Run, the n-egroes are coming! Is it any wonder they didn't help you, look what kinda person you are, shit, I been wishing death on you for about 5 minutes now and i don't even know you, you don't strike me as the kinda person that inspires the spirit of human kindness in people there Val.

In fact, you sound like a bit of a cunt, if I may be so bold. And if i can't well then up yours cuz i just have. Thank you

Whilst his post does have a touch of the cry baby bullshit, I agree with the general gist of his cry baby bullshit. You want something? Shut the fuck up and work for it. You think whitey's giving you a hard time? Fuck him, work your arses off amongst yourselves, create something for yourselves and yourselves only and show the white man. Make yourselves Kings living in a nation of Kings. Which I guess is line with the beliefs of the NOI at the end of the day anyway.

[DieselDaisy]

'Hip hop culture' - I personally hate rap/hip hop music but I will give black guys credit: at least you do not see too many of them in skinny jeans.

[Broskirose]

Those damn blacks. Always bringing the white man down...How much longer must we suffer the oppression??

[Guest Len B'stard]

The slave trade was operated by blacks. The transatlantic trade was built upon an already pre-existing internal African trade. The trade had been going on for centuries - well before Europeans arrived - and involved the muslims from North Africa. This fact is often ignored amidst the ideology of, political correctness.

How does that make European involvement in it alright? Or rather, you explain to me what bearing that has, what, the hole of white guilt in it's particular culture should be shared by parts of Africa, is that what you're saying? Quite frankly when people bring this shit up it always seems like a blame deflecting thing? I mean i do a thing thats bad, i feel guilty for my part and my being reflects that, pointing out the fact that Africans had a major involvement well, thats their fuckin' conscience and their fuckin' weight to carry, it's not really got a lot to do with the fact that Europeans had a major fuckin' part too.

It's not some secret that there was a pre-existing African trade nor is it ignored or rather, it's not really focused on over here cuz, well, thats another mans crimes, there isn't gonna be THAT big an emphasis on that shit in western culture cuz it doesn't cut as deep into the collective conciousness because it's someone elses crime. Each culture bears it own burden, no one denies the African involvement, it's just it stands to reason western culture would be more bothered about it's own infractions.

Also, in defence of 'whites' (for desperate want of a better term) on this end of the world, at least they give a shit, at least white guilt exists, at least there is some form of like...awareness of it...cuz many other cultures wouldn't (and don't) give a fuck.

You want something? Shut the fuck up and work for it. You think whitey's giving you a hard time? Fuck him, work your arses off amongst yourselves

And what, black people don't? The fact that there is a black president is always cited like it's some kinda reflection of 'white grace', maybe the man fuckin' worked for it? Hip Hop culture is the dominant popular culture in the world today, you don't think that shit is the way it is because they worked for it?

Edited May 1, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Johnny Drama]

Yeah but that's one bloke though innit? Of course he's not the only one and given the history of slavery, Jim Crow laws blah blah that's a big achievement in its self but African American society as a whole is fucked in poverty and bullshit and they only got themselves to blame in this day and age. I mean I'm a left leaning guy but there's also such a thing as personal responsibility in this day and age. Like shit cunt if you live in the fucking UK, America or Australia you only got yourself to blame if you can't make it because if you can't make it here good fucking luck cunt in some shit coated third world slum. Hence why immigrants come and do shit. I mean fuck the amount of Afghan refugees that have come and set up successful businesses in my area is outstanding. If they can do it with fucking cock in hand why can't a bunch of cunts that have been in the same place for hundreds of years?

As a side note I kinda found it disappointing back in the day when I found out Obama wasn't a descendant of slaves. Would have been pleasurable as hell to see some real fuckin dirt poor Southerner African American type rise to become POTUS.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Man this aint 1980 no more, there are black owned business and interests etc all over the shop, many many many of em, in America as well as England, cant really speak for the rest of the world, this notion that the majority of black Americans live in abject poverty and bleak circumstances I'm pretty sure ain't true.

[downzy]

Anyone else see this?

Stuart Scott from ESPN comes out on Twitter and says blacks/hispanics CANNOT be racist but can be angry/rude. LMAO.... I hope he gets some serious heat for this idiotic statement.

Scott will only get heat from people who have little understanding of race, racism, and its historical roots.

You focus on the second part of his point without alluding to the first point: that race formation was about one group exercising power over another based on the arbitrary distinction of skin colour. Without the power dynamic, it isn't racism. And in the United States in this day and age, white people still hold court over black people by every statistical evaluation. Stating inane and ignorant stereotypes about one particular ethnic group isn't racism in and of itself. Racism starts where such utterances reinforce a power dynamic that benefits those who make those statements.

Look, once again we find ourselves in a race thread, and once again I'm going to suggest the same readings that I'll bet nobody will bother reading. They're not long books (they're not even books), but short essays or chapters in books that will assist those who have never been exposed to race formation analysis.

Michael Omi and Howard Winant: "Racial Formation"

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~jdowd/omi%20and%20winant%20-%20racial%20formations.pdf

Loic Wacquant: "From Slavery to Mass Incarceration."

http://newleftreview.org/II/13/loic-wacquant-from-slavery-to-mass-incarceration

I'm not saying you have to agree with everything these authors are saying (as I have my own issues with some of the arguments), but at least be familiar with them before you spout off what is and what isn't racism.

Again, I'll quote Jon Stewart who said this week, "It [is] clear we have made enormous progress in teaching everyone that racism is bad. Where we seem to have dropped the ball, is in teaching people what racism actually is."

This thread is a fine example of the point Stewart makes so well.

You don't have cancer, so I have two questions for you:

1) Are there any other long established words besides "racist" that you'd like to completely change the definition of so it conforms to your twisted viewpoints?

2) Two of the most powerful men in the US, Barack Hussein Obama and Eric Himpton Holder Jr, happen to be black. When was the last time Canada had a black prime minister?

1) Not my fault that many, and seemingly yourself, are not aware of the historical context in which the notion of race was created and utilized to create a power dynamic that still operates in the United States today. I provided literature that supports this point; the one which is eluded to by Stuart Scott in his tweet. Did you even read it?

2) Never. But what's your point? You're not seriously making the same erroneous assertion as the OP; that racism in America is over just because it has a black President? Moreover, the black population in Canada is just 2.7 percent of the population; compared to over 13 percent in the U.S.. We have had a black Governor General, which technically has more power than the Prime Minister in many ways.

Edited May 1, 2014 by downzy

[downzy]

Man this aint 1980 no more, there are black owned business and interests etc all over the shop, many many many of em, in America as well as England, cant really speak for the rest of the world, this notion that the majority of black Americans live in abject poverty and bleak circumstances I'm pretty sure ain't true.

Johnny Drama is essentially reiterating (whether he knows it or not) the notions of cultural supremacy, which is often advocated by guys like Charles Murray. Back in the first half of the 20th century the notion of biological inferiority was prevalent. Eugenics was long practiced in the U.S. long before its more infamous association with HItler and Nazi Germany in the 30s and 40s.

But when scientists were finally able to move past eugenics as a means for explaining why African Americans lived less fortunate lives than their white brethren, they turned to cultural inferiority. I don't really have the time right now to get into it, but let's just say I'm not a big fan of this argument.

[DieselDaisy]

The slave trade was operated by blacks. The transatlantic trade was built upon an already pre-existing internal African trade. The trade had been going on for centuries - well before Europeans arrived - and involved the muslims from North Africa. This fact is often ignored amidst the ideology of, political correctness.

How does that make European involvement in it alright? Or rather, you explain to me what bearing that has, what, the hole of white guilt in it's particular culture should be shared by parts of Africa, is that what you're saying? Quite frankly when people bring this shit up it always seems like a blame deflecting thing? I mean i do a thing thats bad, i feel guilty for my part and my being reflects that, pointing out the fact that Africans had a major involvement well, thats their fuckin' conscience and their fuckin' weight to carry, it's not really got a lot to do with the fact that Europeans had a major fuckin' part too.

It's not some secret that there was a pre-existing African trade nor is it ignored or rather, it's not really focused on over here cuz, well, thats another mans crimes, there isn't gonna be THAT big an emphasis on that shit in western culture cuz it doesn't cut as deep into the collective conciousness because it's someone elses crime. Each culture bears it own burden, no one denies the African involvement, it's just it stands to reason western culture would be more bothered about it's own infractions.

Also, in defence of 'whites' (for desperate want of a better term) on this end of the world, at least they give a shit, at least white guilt exists, at least there is some form of like...awareness of it...cuz many other cultures wouldn't (and don't) give a fuck.

It is pertinent when modern African countries wish to seek compensation, and various forms of, historic apologies, from modern European countries; the simply fact of the matter is, modern Africans - especially those living in nations bordering the coast - are more liable to be descended from slave-traders than modern Britons or Americans. The whole, ‘white man: slavery‘, debate is based on a historic fallacy. We do not see, say Chad, pursuing a historical apology from, say, the Ivory Coast! By the way, Great Britain - who banned the trade (1807) and slavery (1834) - led the way in closing down African slavery. Why did Livingston reach the Zambezi? Partially it was exploration and missionary zeal but another reason was to close down inter African slave markets (by creating alternative economic systems).

No offence Len but you, assuming you are from the Indian-Pakistani land mass, are not black. You are part of the same linguistic (Indo-European) and genetic (Caucasoid) group as the evil honky haha. Why then do you go around pretending to be a 'homey', a 'brother'?

[Guest Len B'stard]

I dont Dies', in fact its you who keeps calling me a brother for some reason i just took it for you being a thick Geordie who doesnt understand what the term means but apparently you do, so tell me, why do you keep doing that, despite being aware that I'm not?

Liking hip hop music is no more me pretending to be black than you liking rock n roll means you're pretending to be a yank.

Also, if you notice, ive been taking up the white side of the argument here too, a couple of times, does that mean im pretending to be white?

And anyway, you're going off on a tangent and avoiding the question, how does the african trade existing have a bearing on the white guilt concept, its a lot more specific a question you were being asked.

Edited May 1, 2014 by sugaraylen

[DieselDaisy]

I have never called you 'brother'. I think I have sometimes used the term 'brother', ironically, but I do not believe I have ever directed it at you!

My question was merely, you always support the black side here in racist debates, you like rap and Muhammad Ali and fried chicken - you probably wear baggy jeans hanging off your arsehole and wear baseball caps. But you are not relelated to these people! You will never be black, sir.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Baggy jeans? Im in a suit over here you patronising cunt

So basically, liking rap, chicken and muhammad ali means im pretending to be black?!?!

And yes you have called me a brother, on a number of occasions, also whenever i make a post in a Zep or Alice Cooper thread you always pop up with 'dont see many brothers at an alice gig' and shit like that

I like prawn sandwiches and punk too, what am i pretending to be then? Or when i watch Til Death Us Do Part and kitchen sink dramas?

Edited May 1, 2014 by sugaraylen

[DieselDaisy]

That is just pisstaking. I am more, taking the piss out of the band if anything. You know me for a Kiss fan yet I am the first to admit that their crowds are a white trash convention.

[Guest Len B'stard]

What are you pretending to be cooking

Chinese nosh and watching kung fu movies and being ridiculously overinformed about the orient? Or when you're masking your Geordie accent to the point where all the boys in the pub bully you?

[Johnny Drama]

Man this aint 1980 no more, there are black owned business and interests etc all over the shop, many many many of em, in America as well as England, cant really speak for the rest of the world, this notion that the majority of black Americans live in abject poverty and bleak circumstances I'm pretty sure ain't true.

Johnny Drama is essentially reiterating (whether he knows it or not) the notions of cultural supremacy, which is often advocated by guys like Charles Murray. Back in the first half of the 20th century the notion of biological inferiority was prevalent. Eugenics was long practiced in the U.S. long before its more infamous association with HItler and Nazi Germany in the 30s and 40s.

But when scientists were finally able to move past eugenics as a means for explaining why African Americans lived less fortunate lives than their white brethren, they turned to cultural inferiority. I don't really have the time right now to get into it, but let's just say I'm not a big fan of this argument.

I'm well aware I'm advocating cultural supremacy as highlighted by my NOI tidbit but I'm not talking like an inherent, black man Aryan, whites are devils thing I'm just saying that there's blacks killing blacks, there's blacks keeping other blacks in the ghetto and it forms a vicious cycle at the end of the day with "oh its the white man keeping us down" being the mantra. I'm just saying look after yourselves first, do what you can in order to keep your house in order because then if someone on the outside is saying "oh curse those no good n*****", can they not say back "look at what we've done for ourselves and yet you have the audacity to question us?" Edited May 1, 2014 by Johnny Drama

[DieselDaisy]

What are you pretending to be cooking

Chinese nosh and watching kung fu movies and being ridiculously overinformed about the orient? Or when you're masking your Geordie accent to the point where all the boys in the pub bully you?

'Ridiculousy overinformed' - I thought I was supposed to be a 'thick geordie'. And nobody has fuckin bullied me; they just always say, 'where the hell are you from because I cannot trace your accent' (because I have moved around a lot). I am not a posh geordie like Sting.

[downzy]

Man this aint 1980 no more, there are black owned business and interests etc all over the shop, many many many of em, in America as well as England, cant really speak for the rest of the world, this notion that the majority of black Americans live in abject poverty and bleak circumstances I'm pretty sure ain't true.

Johnny Drama is essentially reiterating (whether he knows it or not) the notions of cultural supremacy, which is often advocated by guys like Charles Murray. Back in the first half of the 20th century the notion of biological inferiority was prevalent. Eugenics was long practiced in the U.S. long before its more infamous association with HItler and Nazi Germany in the 30s and 40s.

But when scientists were finally able to move past eugenics as a means for explaining why African Americans lived less fortunate lives than their white brethren, they turned to cultural inferiority. I don't really have the time right now to get into it, but let's just say I'm not a big fan of this argument.

I'm well aware I'm advocating cultural supremacy as highlighted by my NOI tidbit but I'm not talking like an inherent, black man Aryan, whites are devils thing I'm just saying that there's blacks killing blacks, there's blacks keeping other blacks in the ghetto and it forms a vicious cycle at the end of the day with "oh its the white man keeping us down" being the mantra. I'm just saying look after yourselves first, do what you can in order to keep your house in order because then if someone on the outside is saying "oh curse those no good n*****", can they not say back "look at what we've done for ourselves and yet you have the audacity to question us?"

Blacks keeping blacks in the ghettos? Might want to look up the dichotomy of federally guaranteed mortgages only offered to white neighbourhoods while predominantly black neighbourhoods redlined for ghettos.

As for personal responsibility, that's all well and good if we all start from the same place; that we're all given the same opportunity. But that's a fantasy. That doesn't render African Americans stuck in ghettos innocent of their actions, but without the context of how many inner-city African Americans live you're ignoring the realities of the situation. I've posted this before, but again, it's so f'n money with respect to assertions like the one you're making I'll post it again:

"Thirty years gone and now the drug corner is the centre of its own culture. On Fayette Street, the drugs are no longer what they sell or use, but who they are. We may have begun by fighting a war on drugs, but now we're beating down those who use them. And along Fayette Street, the enemy is everywhere, so that what began as a wrong head tactical mission has been transformed into slow-motion civil war. If we never seriously contemplate alternatives, if we forever see the order of battle in terms of arrests and prisons and lawyers, then perhaps we deserve three more decades of failure.

In the end, we'll blame them. We always do.

And why the hell not? They've ignored our warnings and sanctions, they have taken our check-day bribe and done precious little with it, they've turned our city streets into drug bazaars. Why shouldn't they take the blame?

If it was us, if it was our lonesome ass shuffling past the corner of Monroe and Fayette every day, we'd get out, wouldn't we? We'd endure. Succeed. Thrive. No matter what, no matter how, we'd find the fucking exit.

If it was our fathers firing dope and our mothers smoking crack, we'd pull ourselves past it. We'd raise ourselves, discipline ourselves, teach ourselves the essentials of self-denial and delayed gratification that no one in our universe ever demonstrated. And if home was the rear room of some rancid, three-story shooting gallery, we'd rise above that, too. We'd shuffle up the stairs past nodding fiends and sullen dealers, shut the bedroom door, turn off the television, and do our schoolwork. Algebra amid the stench of burning rock; American history between police raids. And if there was no food on the table, we're certain we could deal with that. We'd lie about our age to cut taters and spill grease and sling fries at the sub shop for five-and-change-an-hour, walking every day past the corner where friends are making our daily wage in ten minutes.

No matter. We'd persevere, wouldn't we? We'd work that job by night and go to class by day, by some miracle squeezing a quality education from the disaster that is the Baltimore school system. We'd do all the work, we'd pay whatever price. And when all the other children are out in the street, learning the corner world, priming themselves for the only life they've ever known, we'd be holed up in some shithole of a row house with our textbooks and yellow highlighters, cramming for finals. Come payday, we wouldn't blow that minimum-wage check on Nikes, or Fila sweat suits, or Friday night movies at Harbor Park with the neighbourhood girls. No fucking way, brother, because we pulled self-esteem out of a dark hole somewhere and damned if our every desire isn't absolutely in check. We don't need to buy any status; no, we can save every last dollar, or invest it, maybe. And in the end, we know, we'll head off to our college years shining like a new dime, searing never to set foot on West Fayette Street again.

That's the myth of it, the required lie that allows us to render our judgments. Parasites, criminals, dope fiends, dope pedlars, whores - when we can ride past them at Fayette and Monroe, car doors locked, our field of vision cautiously restricted to the road ahead, then the long journey into darkness is underway. Pale-skinned hillbillies and hard-faced yow, toothless white trash and gold-front gangsters - when we can glide on and feel only fear, we're well on the way. And if, after a time, we can glimpse the spectacle of the corner and manage nothing beyond loathing and contempt, then we've arrived at last at that naked place where a man finally sees the sense in stretching razor wire and building barracks and directing cattle cars into the compound.

It's a reckoning of another kind, perhaps, and one that becomes a possibility only through the arrogance and certainty that so easily accompanies a well-planned and well-tended life. We know ourselves, we believe in ourselves; from what we value most, we grant ourselves the illusion that it's not chance and circumstance, that opportunity itself isn't the defining issue. We want the high ground; we want our own worth to be acknowledged. Morality, intelligence, values - we want those things measured and counted. We want it to be about Us.

Yes, if we were down there, if we were the damned of the American cities, we would not fail. We would rise above the corner. And when we tell ourselves such things, we unthinkably assume that we would be consigned to places like Fayette Street fully equipped with all the graces and disciplines, talents and training that we now possess. Our parents would still be our parents, our teachers still our teachers, our broker still our broker. Amid the stench of so much defeat and despair, we would kick fate in the teeth and claim our deserved victory. We would escape to live the life we were suppose to live, the life we were living now. We would be saved, and as it always is in matters of salvation, we know this as a matter of perfect, pristine faith."

- David Simon, The Corner

[Thin White Duke]

[Guest Len B'stard]

What are you pretending to be cooking

Chinese nosh and watching kung fu movies and being ridiculously overinformed about the orient? Or when you're masking your Geordie accent to the point where all the boys in the pub bully you?

'Ridiculousy overinformed' - I thought I was supposed to be a 'thick geordie'. And nobody has fuckin bullied me; they just always say, 'where the hell are you from because I cannot trace your accent' (because I have moved around a lot). I am not a posh geordie like Sting.

Alright Mr Miyagi, alright, dont get out of your pram

[downzy]

Wow, clever and original.

[Thin White Duke]

Thanks sir.

I am just exercising my right to be an asshole because my wounds haven't still healed.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Thanks sir.

I am just exercising my right to be an asshole because my wounds haven't still healed.

Yeah, i'd've put money on that actually