Rovim Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Catcher is a terrible song with Axl's whiny vocals, lack of any memorable moment or melody and Ron's noise (can't call it a solo) is just terrible. Synth solo break is cute, Axl trying to sound modern Demo version is a lot better, still not even close to the greatness of Locomotive. Axl must stick to hard rock and love ballads, he can't do other stuff.I would compare Catcher to Yesterdays. It has the same feel. Much closer at least then Locomotive.The demo is a classic imo. The studio version is alright too. Shit mix, too many shits in the intro and outro, but still a great song for me. Edited June 24, 2014 by Rovim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'd love a good quality version of the Catcher demo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynard Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Yesterdays is just beautiful. Sublime guitar work, vocals, everything. All the elements work on their own and for the song. Catcher goes nowhere, production is terrible and Axl vocals are mediocre. Listen to his, sorry, raspy voice on Yesterdays and you'll have goosebumps. And then listen to his whiny vocals and high pitched backing vocals. Hard to believe it's the same guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetness Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Could do without a verse or two less and one or twoess guitar solos.i agree on that one then it'd be damn perfectNah, everything that's there is necessary, except the god damn low register vocals in the mix during the chorus. I don't know why Axl thought they were a good idea on the Illusions, "cringe worthy" is an understatement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Yesterdays is just beautiful. Sublime guitar work, vocals, everything. All the elements work on their own and for the song. Catcher goes nowhere, production is terrible and Axl vocals are mediocre. Listen to his, sorry, raspy voice on Yesterdays and you'll have goosebumps. And then listen to his whiny vocals and high pitched backing vocals. Hard to believe it's the same guy.Goes nowher my balls. The outro is a work of art. The lyrics are all over the place in a good way, I love them, but I can see why old Guns fans will dislike that style. Axl's melodies are great. Backing vocals too. He uses his voice differently, getting a different tone to it. It works for this song imo. I'm a huge rasp whore so again, I can see why others will hate it.May's solo was great. Studio version: Finck's work on it is delicate and just fits. Very understated.This song represents a progression for Axl as a writer. Maybe the only song from Chinese to really make it obvious. At the time, Oh My God showed that as well. Like he needed more time to make it sound good, to learn how to do new styles. From My World to Oh My God, to Shackler's and Better. It was lyrically with Catcher and musically with Oh My God and Better especially. Showed he was capable of pushing Guns forward. To work with the classic sound and themes and make it Chinese. Edited June 24, 2014 by Rovim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 GN'R doesn't have a progressive song in their catalog. Honestly, Shackler's is about as close as you get to it.You need to look up what progressive sounds like. Slash would shit his pants if he had to play Dream Theater/John Petrucci guitar parts. You're getting mixed up buddy, Progressive could simply be talking about the lyrical themes... The illusions albums and CD are definitely progressive, odd time signatures, layered songs, layered meanings to songs, concept based albums etc. both might not be the most technical pieces of music ever written but that does not make something progressive. By your estimation Pink Floyd wouldn't be progressive, Genesis wouldn't be... these bands played less intricate parts but absolutely forged the progressive movement... DT are the 2nd or 3rd wave of an established style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynard Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) There's nothing complex enough to be called "progressive" on CD though. They all resort to basic rock and rock ballads templates with layers and layers of, mostly, unnecessary sounds. Lyrics are terrible compared to Axl's past efforts (Estranged, Coma, etc). Edited June 24, 2014 by ProstituteComa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin' Cigarettes Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 This is splitting hairs. It's like when fans of shitty sports teams can spin statistics to work in their favor in order to make things seem better. Like a baseball team when they go 45 games under .500 but they led the league in stolen bases. Next time I go to a Prog Rock festival in Atlanta Ga I fully expect GN'R to be headlining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Chinese is complex and progressive as fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Catcher is a terrible song with Axl's whiny vocals, lack of any memorable moment or melody and Ron's noise (can't call it a solo) is just terrible. Synth solo break is cute, Axl trying to sound modern Demo version is a lot better, still not even close to the greatness of Locomotive. Axl must stick to hard rock and love ballads, he can't do other stuff.ya man its the whinniest bitchiest song axl's ever done - CRINGE WORTHY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Chinese is complex and progressive as fuck.chinese tried to be over the top and came out very very mediocre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Chinese is complex and progressive as fuck.chinese tried to be over the top and came out very very mediocre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rush Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 This is splitting hairs. It's like when fans of shitty sports teams can spin statistics to work in their favor in order to make things seem better. Like a baseball team when they go 45 games under .500 but they led the league in stolen bases. Next time I go to a Prog Rock festival in Atlanta Ga I fully expect GN'R to be headlining.sir, you still fail to provide us with what you think progressive is. you act smart about it while providing no arguments to prove your point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdHeartBreaker Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Loves so strange would be a much better Guns N Roses song.Imagine if they took the outro, worked on it and formed an entire song? Edited June 24, 2014 by ColdHeartBreaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvH Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Loves so strange would be a much better Guns N Roses song.Imagine if they took the outro, worked on it and formed an entire song?I think that's the contrast with the rest of the song which gives it its strength Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Loves so strange would be a much better Guns N Roses song.Imagine if they took the outro, worked on it and formed an entire song?I think that's the contrast with the rest of the song which gives it its strength Like November Rain, only not as riff oriented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laparka Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I don't know what's the definition of "progressive" the OP holds for truth, but it is certainly far from mine.What I consider as prog is a song that is very long compared to standard pop and/or rock formats==> 8.42 is not that long (check out Rush, Genesis, or even Dream Theater...)No clear Intro/verse/Chorus/solo/Outro formula==> Locomotive respects the usual rock song formulaUnusual tempo, rythm variations, complexity==> not locomotive at all : Rythm stays the same. Plus, I don't really have the impression that there is a lot of variations in key. Even the soli are the exact same type as every Slash soli (does not mean they are bad). Drums are laughable on how they are predictable, which IMHO puts that song far far far away from the prog genre.I don't really think the song progresses into something else. It's pretty linear until the outro. The outro is brilliant, but it seems like it's an other song that is pasted...Well, that said, I don't have the pretention to be the only one who knows what prog rock is or must be, and I can be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 I don't know what's the definition of "progressive" the OP holds for truth, but it is certainly far from mine.What I consider as prog is a song that is very long compared to standard pop and/or rock formats==> 8.42 is not that long (check out Rush, Genesis, or even Dream Theater...)No clear Intro/verse/Chorus/solo/Outro formula==> Locomotive respects the usual rock song formulaUnusual tempo, rythm variations, complexity==> not locomotive at all : Rythm stays the same. Plus, I don't really have the impression that there is a lot of variations in key. Even the soli are the exact same type as every Slash soli (does not mean they are bad). Drums are laughable on how they are predictable, which IMHO puts that song far far far away from the prog genre.I don't really think the song progresses into something else. It's pretty linear until the outro. The outro is brilliant, but it seems like it's an other song that is pasted...Well, that said, I don't have the pretention to be the only one who knows what prog rock is or must be, and I can be wrong.locomotive as i said in the title is the most progressive song of all gnr songs of all time - it doesn't mean that its necessarily fits the prog genre 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rush Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I don't know what's the definition of "progressive" the OP holds for truth, but it is certainly far from mine.What I consider as prog is a song that is very long compared to standard pop and/or rock formats==> 8.42 is not that long (check out Rush, Genesis, or even Dream Theater...)No clear Intro/verse/Chorus/solo/Outro formula==> Locomotive respects the usual rock song formulaUnusual tempo, rythm variations, complexity==> not locomotive at all : Rythm stays the same. Plus, I don't really have the impression that there is a lot of variations in key. Even the soli are the exact same type as every Slash soli (does not mean they are bad). Drums are laughable on how they are predictable, which IMHO puts that song far far far away from the prog genre.I don't really think the song progresses into something else. It's pretty linear until the outro. The outro is brilliant, but it seems like it's an other song that is pasted...Well, that said, I don't have the pretention to be the only one who knows what prog rock is or must be, and I can be wrong.locomotive as i said in the title is the most progressive song of all gnr songs of all time - it doesn't mean that its necessarily fits the prog genre 100% well, i think laparka covered most of prog characteristics but I dont think a song has to be long to be prog. length is irrelevant in my opinion. I look at prog like a continuum in which every song can be more or less progressive. considering that locomotive is pretty repetitive an has a giant middle section that is samey, the only thing that makes locomotive more progressive than dont cry are the lengthy intro and outro so i would say tat locomotive is more prog than some and less prog than some other gnr songs.having said that, a lot of gnr songs are progressive to a certain extent (not in the league of early rush or dream theater but more progressive than most mainstream pop rock or metal bands Edited June 24, 2014 by the rush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin' Cigarettes Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) This is splitting hairs. It's like when fans of shitty sports teams can spin statistics to work in their favor in order to make things seem better. Like a baseball team when they go 45 games under .500 but they led the league in stolen bases. Next time I go to a Prog Rock festival in Atlanta Ga I fully expect GN'R to be headlining.sir, you still fail to provide us with what you think progressive is. you act smart about it while providing no arguments to prove your pointSir, you think you've got me but you don't. I know pretty well about this subject but I'm not about to engage in long reply battles with you about it for 2 reasons. 1. I don't give a Fuck if you think I know or not. I'll happily let you think whatever you want. 2. I'm too lazy to read long 800 sentence posts with a thousand quotes. I'm not passionate enough about this to spend hours measuring dicks. Edited June 24, 2014 by Smokin' Cigarettes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rush Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) i doesnt have to be lengthy but you havent stated a single argument which doesnt work in favor of someone who claims to "know plenty" about the subject. im not trying to be antagonistic but its just that it bothers me when someone agressively argues without a single argument. ive provided plenty. ps it was you who started measuring dicks when you attacked my first reply without a single argument and everything since then was me being reactive Edited June 24, 2014 by the rush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunoze Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Putting GNR and 'progressive' in the same sentence is quite frankly ridiculous. I don't even think Locomotive has a tempo shift? As someone pointed out, If GNR was a student in the 'Classic Rock Conformity' class, it would be an 'A' grade student. Let me give you an insight. If you take a guitar tuned in standard, you can play a G sharp minor pentatonic on the entire song, without it sounding out of place. I love listening to GNR when I need a bit of sanity and easy listening music. My normal diet of progressive music features stuff like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Era Vulgaris is brutal. Great album. Took me a while to get into it though and some weed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Regardless of how people want to classify it, Locomotive is a great song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunoze Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Era Vulgaris is brutal. Great album. Took me a while to get into it though and some weed.Couldn't agree more. It takes a long time to make any sense of what it is trying to do. It took me a long while to get into it. In fact I only started listening to it again after seeing them at a festival last year. It has completely changed the way I look at music now. Regarding Era a lot of people say 'how come fun machine didn't end up on the final cut?'. And the answer is simple. Because thats what classic rock text books would have told you to do. So Josh did the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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