about CD : "it sounds like guns in a more modern way"

[gunsNbones]

CD is a okay album for me, good songs but so slowly, in my opinion a rock/metal album should have 1 or 2 ballads, CD has 7 or 8!! and i dont find good rocker riffs, i prefer Going Down than CD.

it's not really 'ballads' I think. rather something called 'mid tempo songs'

Never heard of it. Point is it doesn't really rock your cock.

to explain it: that's the google trad of a french site about mid tempo:

http://www.mad-movies.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35749

"You will say: "Why not a topic on fast songs?". And you will not totally wrong. But I'd like you to start lingers on the mid-tempo genres in that it is not intended to represent or where it is used rarely (often detour to walk or single ) like some kind of metal, hardcore or punk rock. Go tell Dave Lombardo drop his metronome 210 BPM to 110 BPM ... It is possible, but will have to convince him.

So first of all, what is the mid-tempo? It's not complicated. Mid it comes from middle (middle therefore, hu hu) and it comes tempo tempo (not the KICKBOXER, the speed of execution of a musical work). There really is no rule which sets a clear limit on the BPM (Beats Per Minute) in order to catalog a mid-tempo song or not (at least not to my knowledge). This uncertainty will not help us to manage the topic but I trust the veracity and validity of your proposals you.

The mid-tempo, it is used when it is necessary, as it is necessary and appropriately, can give more energy and efficiency to a song than any bass drum (the stuff that goes boom boom) in dual mode pedal or snare (the stuff that makes ta ta!) in gun mode. It can instill a "heavy" side and "insisting" as in the excellent title Broadcasting sympathetic group COMEBACK KID (see below video). You can also use it on verses, before changing the rhythm on the chorus to give them more impact. Anyway, I found it worthwhile to dwell on this type of track in styles that are rather speed habits.

Marduk yet is a very straight forward and brutal group can lay very nice pieces in the genre:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpsPJky33aE#t=338

"

[Rovim]

CD is a okay album for me, good songs but so slowly, in my opinion a rock/metal album should have 1 or 2 ballads, CD has 7 or 8!! and i dont find good rocker riffs, i prefer Going Down than CD.

it's not really 'ballads' I think. rather something called 'mid tempo songs'

Never heard of it. Point is it doesn't really rock your cock.

to explain it: that's the google trad of a french site about mid tempo:

http://www.mad-movies.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35749

"You will say: "Why not a topic on fast songs?". And you will not totally wrong. But I'd like you to start lingers on the mid-tempo genres in that it is not intended to represent or where it is used rarely (often detour to walk or single ) like some kind of metal, hardcore or punk rock. Go tell Dave Lombardo drop his metronome 210 BPM to 110 BPM ... It is possible, but will have to convince him.

So first of all, what is the mid-tempo? It's not complicated. Mid it comes from middle (middle therefore, hu hu) and it comes tempo tempo (not the KICKBOXER, the speed of execution of a musical work). There really is no rule which sets a clear limit on the BPM (Beats Per Minute) in order to catalog a mid-tempo song or not (at least not to my knowledge). This uncertainty will not help us to manage the topic but I trust the veracity and validity of your proposals you.

The mid-tempo, it is used when it is necessary, as it is necessary and appropriately, can give more energy and efficiency to a song than any bass drum (the stuff that goes boom boom) in dual mode pedal or snare (the stuff that makes ta ta!) in gun mode. It can instill a "heavy" side and "insisting" as in the excellent title Broadcasting sympathetic group COMEBACK KID (see below video). You can also use it on verses, before changing the rhythm on the chorus to give them more impact. Anyway, I found it worthwhile to dwell on this type of track in styles that are rather speed habits.

Marduk yet is a very straight forward and brutal group can lay very nice pieces in the genre:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpsPJky33aE#t=338

"

Yeah I know what it is. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

[RandallFlagg]

How much did the triad of Finck, Bucket and Axl actually write together though, we know Better was Finck but in terms of integral chunks of songs, not just solos or harmonies or whatever.

I know they are massive cogs of tracks but songwriting like Slash/Izzy would've contributed.

[Rovim]

How much did the triad of Finck, Bucket and Axl actually write together though, we know Better was Finck but in terms of integral chunks of songs, not just solos or harmonies or whatever.

I know they are massive cogs of tracks but songwriting like Slash/Izzy would've contributed.

What replaced that was Huge and Axl. Not talking about the quality compared to Izzy and Slash, but Paul is kinda like Izzy in a way to Axl.

[pockets]

about CD: "it sounds like guns in a more modern way"

i think CD does sound like guns in a more modern way. CD sounds like a more modern illusions.

Songs like This I Love, Better, Street of Dreams, There was a Time, If The World, and Prostitute featuring Lead Solos by Robin Finck and Buckethead could've been on either Use Your Illusion 1 or Use Your Illusion 2 or even on Use Your Illusion 3 if UYI3 was made in the mid 90's with Robin and Bucket in guns.

And there's probably truck loads more songs featuring Robin Finck and Buckethead "unreleased" that sound like guns in a more modern way too.

[magisme]

If CD sounded much like Illusions, I'd love the album. That's case closed on those comparisons for me.

2-3 more alt accounts insisting otherwise might just convince me, though.

[Rovim]

If CD sounded much like Illusions, I'd love the album. That's case closed on those comparisons for me.

2-3 more alt accounts insisting otherwise might just convince me, though.

So you don't think Street Of Dreams sounds like UYI? A serious reply will be appreciated.

[magisme]

If CD sounded much like Illusions, I'd love the album. That's case closed on those comparisons for me.

2-3 more alt accounts insisting otherwise might just convince me, though.

So you don't think Street Of Dreams sounds like UYI? A serious reply will be appreciated.

I think SOD is the most UYI-ish track. Sounds to me like something that would have been left on the cutting room floor during UYI sessions. Better has UYI moments, but overall, no. Some might say TWAT and Catcher, but I completely disagree.

[Rovim]

If CD sounded much like Illusions, I'd love the album. That's case closed on those comparisons for me.

2-3 more alt accounts insisting otherwise might just convince me, though.

So you don't think Street Of Dreams sounds like UYI? A serious reply will be appreciated.

I think SOD is the most UYI-ish track. Sounds to me like something that would have been left on the cutting room floor during UYI sessions. Better has UYI moments, but overall, no. Some might say TWAT and Catcher, but I completely disagree.

Some parts of There Was A Time sounds like Estranged to me. Not just Axl's vocals, but also Bucket's outro. The piano riff in Prostitute kinda reminds me of November Rain. It makes sense though, cause Axl has his own style when it comes to piano playing. He's not a great piano player, but much like Lennon, you can tell it's him playing it.

I don't think Axl was aiming for a UYI sounding record with Chinese, but he, more then anyone else in the band at the time, dictated the direction for UYI imo, and This I Love, with some changes would have made sense as a song on that album.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Rovim

[magisme]

I should clarify that I didn't want CD to sound like UYIs. I'm not saying I wish he went back to the same formula. For example, imo the guitars are the best part of CD, and with the exception of a few moments they don't sound much like UYI. CD sucks for two main reasons: production and Axl. Production pretty much everyone agrees on. As far as Axl, you can split that into performance and writing. Performance wise, he's trash. And it's not just that he doesn't use rasp; it's that he sounds terrible. Writing let's break up into melody and lyrics. Melodies are simple at best. I would say they are trite. And trite is surely the only word to describe the lyrics as well. Of course there are momentary exceptions throughout the album, but that's broadly how I feel about CD.

[Rovim]

I should clarify that I didn't want CD to sound like UYIs. I'm not saying I wish he went back to the same formula. For example, imo the guitars are the best part of CD, and with the exception of a few moments they don't sound much like UYI. CD sucks for two main reasons: production and Axl. Production pretty much everyone agrees on. As far as Axl, you can split that into performance and writing. Performance wise, he's trash. And it's not just that he doesn't use rasp; it's that he sounds terrible. Writing let's break up into melody and lyrics. Melodies are simple at best. I would say they are trite. And trite is surely the only word to describe the lyrics as well. Of course there are momentary exceptions throughout the album, but that's broadly how I feel about CD.

Unacceptable.

[dalsh327]

How much did the triad of Finck, Bucket and Axl actually write together though, we know Better was Finck but in terms of integral chunks of songs, not just solos or harmonies or whatever.

I know they are massive cogs of tracks but songwriting like Slash/Izzy would've contributed.

What replaced that was Huge and Axl. Not talking about the quality compared to Izzy and Slash, but Paul is kinda like Izzy in a way to Axl.

Paul, Robin (after trying to get Chris Vrenna?), Josh, and Tommy were all a big part of moving Axl forward. Pitman joined around that time but they got the ball rolling and laid most of the groundwork.

[maynard]

I should clarify that I didn't want CD to sound like UYIs. I'm not saying I wish he went back to the same formula. For example, imo the guitars are the best part of CD, and with the exception of a few moments they don't sound much like UYI. CD sucks for two main reasons: production and Axl. Production pretty much everyone agrees on. As far as Axl, you can split that into performance and writing. Performance wise, he's trash. And it's not just that he doesn't use rasp; it's that he sounds terrible. Writing let's break up into melody and lyrics. Melodies are simple at best. I would say they are trite. And trite is surely the only word to describe the lyrics as well. Of course there are momentary exceptions throughout the album, but that's broadly how I feel about CD.

Yup.

[wasted]

How much did the triad of Finck, Bucket and Axl actually write together though, we know Better was Finck but in terms of integral chunks of songs, not just solos or harmonies or whatever.

I know they are massive cogs of tracks but songwriting like Slash/Izzy would've contributed.

What replaced that was Huge and Axl. Not talking about the quality compared to Izzy and Slash, but Paul is kinda like Izzy in a way to Axl.

Paul is the Izzy of Epics. Izzy never really worked on Nov Rain or Estranged.

I feel like Axl /Bucket got closest to YCBM with Shacklers. A rocker with parts and big chorus.

Finck somehow fused Skynard and NIN on Better. Maybe Axl fused it, hard to say.

Scraped and Sorry from Bucket really the future of GNR.

[wasted]

I should clarify that I didn't want CD to sound like UYIs. I'm not saying I wish he went back to the same formula. For example, imo the guitars are the best part of CD, and with the exception of a few moments they don't sound much like UYI. CD sucks for two main reasons: production and Axl. Production pretty much everyone agrees on. As far as Axl, you can split that into performance and writing. Performance wise, he's trash. And it's not just that he doesn't use rasp; it's that he sounds terrible. Writing let's break up into melody and lyrics. Melodies are simple at best. I would say they are trite. And trite is surely the only word to describe the lyrics as well. Of course there are momentary exceptions throughout the album, but that's broadly how I feel about CD.

Unacceptable.

Melodies, lyrics, vocals and songwriting in general (basically 12 singles) are great.

I agree is someways about the production. As in for most it doesn't give that feeling of assurance. Track to track it's different production, studios, parts, guitarists, fridges, chicken coops. I love it though, each song gets indulged like a princess' concubine. I didn't miss the flatness of UYI or the recorded in a barn sound of AFD at all.

[MEXzilla]

CD sounds a decade or so too late (98 would have been perfect).

[Free Bird]

I should clarify that I didn't want CD to sound like UYIs. I'm not saying I wish he went back to the same formula. For example, imo the guitars are the best part of CD, and with the exception of a few moments they don't sound much like UYI. CD sucks for two main reasons: production and Axl. Production pretty much everyone agrees on. As far as Axl, you can split that into performance and writing. Performance wise, he's trash. And it's not just that he doesn't use rasp; it's that he sounds terrible. Writing let's break up into melody and lyrics. Melodies are simple at best. I would say they are trite. And trite is surely the only word to describe the lyrics as well. Of course there are momentary exceptions throughout the album, but that's broadly how I feel about CD.

Thats similar to my feelings. To me CD sounds more like a neutered version of GNR.

What I dislike the most are all these "Ahhh aaahhh"s and "Uhhhh uuuuhhh"s, that paired with Axl melodys and voice on most of the songs is just terrible. So I can't do anything but to skip songs like SOD, Catcher and IRS.

I know there are some great moments on theses tunes as well but all in all I just dislike them.

Nothing UYIish on them except of Axls piano

[RandallFlagg]

If you look at Bucket's solo work, him and Axl could've gone so far, I know BBF has good solo material and can practically play anything, he knows enough rock and metal to understand where he could take GNR songwriting too, jesus, the guy did the solos without even properly hearing the CD tracks and they sound pretty gnarly to me and has no trouble replicating Slash or Bucket's work. Axl found another diamond in the musical ether and he might even be letting him jump ship cause he can't get himself to a studio.

[gunsNbones]

I should clarify that I didn't want CD to sound like UYIs. I'm not saying I wish he went back to the same formula. For example, imo the guitars are the best part of CD, and with the exception of a few moments they don't sound much like UYI. CD sucks for two main reasons: production and Axl. Production pretty much everyone agrees on. As far as Axl, you can split that into performance and writing. Performance wise, he's trash. And it's not just that he doesn't use rasp; it's that he sounds terrible. Writing let's break up into melody and lyrics. Melodies are simple at best. I would say they are trite. And trite is surely the only word to describe the lyrics as well. Of course there are momentary exceptions throughout the album, but that's broadly how I feel about CD.

Unacceptable.

Melodies, lyrics, vocals and songwriting in general (basically 12 singles) are great.

I agree is someways about the production. As in for most it doesn't give that feeling of assurance. Track to track it's different production, studios, parts, guitarists, fridges, chicken coops. I love it though, each song gets indulged like a princess' concubine. I didn't miss the flatness of UYI or the recorded in a barn sound of AFD at all.

this part of the story always makes me laugh !

it's nice to see that every one in the band seemed to be patient with each other when it's about creating music.

they surely had great moments laughing and recording it.

it's rock !

[RandallFlagg]

The most hilarious account is of Axl going apeshit at BH when he came to the studio and saw Bucket in his coop with chicken shit all over the place and watching hardcore porn, and Axl saying something about that depravity is not what the soul of the record concerns, this coming from a guy who used to screw any girl that walked his way lol.

The guitarist was deep into it one evening when Rose turned up. “Axl sees that Bucket is running this porn,” Zutaut recalls. “And it is pretty hardcore stuff. It’s not soft porn by any stretch of the imagination. And Axl is really disturbed by it.” Zutaut explained the situation to Rose, but the singer was not moved. “He said music is about energy and we are transferring a creative spirit and vibe within the music,” Zutaut says. “He said, ‘I really can’t have the vibe of dirty depraved porn being a part of my record. It is really not what this record is about, you know?’ ”

[maynard]

The most hilarious account is of Axl going apeshit at BH when he came to the studio and saw Bucket in his coop with chicken shit all over the place and watching hardcore porn, and Axl saying something about that depravity is not what the soul of the record concerns, this coming from a guy who used to screw any girl that walked his way lol.

The guitarist was deep into it one evening when Rose turned up. “Axl sees that Bucket is running this porn,” Zutaut recalls. “And it is pretty hardcore stuff. It’s not soft porn by any stretch of the imagination. And Axl is really disturbed by it.” Zutaut explained the situation to Rose, but the singer was not moved. “He said music is about energy and we are transferring a creative spirit and vibe within the music,” Zutaut says. “He said, ‘I really can’t have the vibe of dirty depraved porn being a part of my record. It is really not what this record is about, you know?’ ”

I guess the shit all over the floor inspired Axl to write "Scraped".

[RandallFlagg]

The intro was probably composed when he was holding his breath and couldn't get to the window so had to express his discomforts...

[maynard]

The intro was probably composed when he was holding his breath and couldn't get to the window so had to express his discomforts...

"I'm here to tell you you are more than they tell you" - only a suffocating from shit's smell Axl could come up with such sentence.

[gunsNbones]

The most hilarious account is of Axl going apeshit at BH when he came to the studio and saw Bucket in his coop with chicken shit all over the place and watching hardcore porn, and Axl saying something about that depravity is not what the soul of the record concerns, this coming from a guy who used to screw any girl that walked his way lol.

The guitarist was deep into it one evening when Rose turned up. “Axl sees that Bucket is running this porn,” Zutaut recalls. “And it is pretty hardcore stuff. It’s not soft porn by any stretch of the imagination. And Axl is really disturbed by it.” Zutaut explained the situation to Rose, but the singer was not moved. “He said music is about energy and we are transferring a creative spirit and vibe within the music,” Zutaut says. “He said, ‘I really can’t have the vibe of dirty depraved porn being a part of my record. It is really not what this record is about, you know?’ ”

I like this sentence:

He said music is about energy and we are transferring a creative spirit and vibe within the music

is Zutaut still around ? still in music business ?

[RandallFlagg]

No idea but I found this cool thread regarding some more stories around him!

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/113859-i-hung-out-with-tom-zutaut-on-saturday-night/