What if Slash and Duff had accepted Izzy's original offer to Velvet Revolver...?

[maynard]

Yeah, my quota of interest in discussing GNR has ended for today. Just in case someone disagrees with me later: I blame Axl Rose.

[Rovim]

Yeah, my quota of interest in discussing GNR has ended for today. Just in case someone disagrees with me later: I blame Axl Rose.

I never get tired of discussing GNR. Just in case you'll disagree with me later: you're wrong.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Rovim

[Haters Gonna Hate]

Izzy doing backup vocals to Scott would of been cool

[Apollo]

I think all of you guys are reading way too much into it.

Everybody shoulders a share of the blame. Because we (and the gunners) are humans and all have our own perspective - it is impossible to pin-point who shoulders what percent of the band dissolving. Simply because one action might have spurned other actions. So you can't say "Axl did this" as part of the blame because he might have reacted differently if Slash had did something differently. Maybe Slash/Duff wouldn't have drank and did so many drugs if Axl hadn't become a dictator. Maybe Axl wouldn't have became a control freak if Izzy hadn't bailed. See what I mean?

AND none of us really know what happened. Our "opinion" of each event is extremely biased towards whichever guy we like better (Axl or Slash).

Success and money and ego went to all their heads.

Izzy didn't like what the band had become and had to worry about his drug addiction.

Axl became a control freak and dictator and his ego was the worst in music.

Slash was a drug addict.
Duff was an alcoholic who almost died from it.

Steven couldn't get off the drugs.

Matt was.....well, Matt is Matt.

That's it. No more really needs to be said. They were all at fault for breaking up the greatest rock band of our generation. They all played a major role in it. And they all could have done things differently to try and save the band. Blaming one guy over another guy is just silly. And really - worthless. What does it solve? It isn't going to change anything. All it really is now is a pissing match between forum members trying to insult other forum members by bashing their favorite GnR member.

***********

As for riffs and choruses and all that stuff. Again, man, you guys over analyze this stuff to death. I don't care about riffs, who wrote what, who wrote what solo, how many times a song is layered or tinkered with, etc, etc, etc. Either the song sounds good or it doesn't.

And for me personally, I loved CD and hope that CD2 is just an extension of the first one.

Twat, Better, Catcher, Street of Dreams, This I Love, Shacklers and Prostitute......all great songs that are worthy of the GnR name.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Groghan

[Rovim]

I think all of you guys are reading way too much into it.

Everybody shoulders a share of the blame. Because we (and the gunners) are humans and all have our own perspective - it is impossible to pin-point who shoulders what percent of the band dissolving. Simply because one action might have spurned other actions. So you can't say "Axl did this" as part of the blame because he might have reacted differently if Slash had did something differently. Maybe Slash/Duff wouldn't have drank and did so many drugs if Axl hadn't become a dictator. Maybe Axl wouldn't have became a control freak if Izzy hadn't bailed. See what I mean?

AND none of us really know what happened. Our "opinion" of each event is extremely biased towards whichever guy we like better (Axl or Slash).

Success and money and ego went to all their heads.

Izzy didn't like what the band had become and had to worry about his drug addiction.

Axl became a control freak and dictator and his ego was the worst in music.

Slash was a drug addict.

Duff was an alcoholic who almost died from it.

Steven couldn't get off the drugs.

Matt was.....well, Matt is Matt.

That's it. No more really needs to be said. They were all at fault for breaking up the greatest rock band of our generation. They all played a major role in it. And they all could have done things differently to try and save the band. Blaming one guy over another guy is just silly. And really - worthless. What does it solve? It isn't going to change anything. All it really is now is a pissing match between forum members trying to insult other forum members by bashing their favorite GnR member.

***********

As for riffs and choruses and all that stuff. Again, man, you guys over analyze this stuff to death. I don't care about riffs, who wrote what, who wrote what solo, how many times a song is layered or tinkered with, etc, etc, etc. Either the song sounds good or it doesn't.

And for me personally, I loved CD and hope that CD2 is just an extension of the first one.

Twat, Better, Catcher, Street of Dreams, This I Love, Shacklers and Prostitute......all great songs that are worthy of the GnR name.

Look, just because you don't care who wrote what riff and going into details, doesn't mean it's not appropriate. This is a fan forum. It's what we do.

I also think a lot more needs to be said, cause it's a complicated situation and with time, we learn new things. New info is a good reason to go back to the topics we've discussed before and explore old questions with fresh info.

In some ways, you can think of it as a complex trial: you collect enough facts, you listen to enough people, you listen to both sides, and you come to conclusions. You don't have to agree on every point or on any point, but just discussing it shapes the way you look at it, and hopefully, maybe, expands your knowledge about the band you love.

If you're content with what you know, that's fine. I want to know as much as I can about what happened, everything about this band still holds my interest. It's history is fascinating to me, and I have a feeling Axl will talk way more about it in the future, and maybe that will be the crucial missing piece in understanding what exactly went down.

I understand where you're coming from, but I never thought anything I've discussed here with most people and what they had to say and still have to say was a pissing match.

There are those who come from ego, sure. But there are many here who just want to get to the bottom of it. You don't have to want to do that of course, but there should be an option to always talk about what happened with this band.

Some people like to talk about something, and then talk some more, and then change the topic to something else. Others just want to talk about a specific subject until they feel there is nothing more to learn. Both preferences are valid imo.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Rovim

[dalsh327]

It takes big egos to be in a successful band and have a competitive drive in them and when they turn on each other and start insulting each other's creativity, how the hell could they work together? When everyone was on the same page and taking on the world, they were unbeatable. Money did change things for them in good and bad ways.

[Apollo]

Rov - I feel you man.

I just wish we were comparing songs from the four albums Axl had released post Slash/Duff, rather than who wrote what riffs on a 10 year old song or still trying to figure out which band member should receive 18.58% of the blame for the break-up.

[Rovim]

Rov - I feel you man.

I just wish we were comparing songs from the four albums Axl had released post Slash/Duff, rather than who wrote what riffs on a 10 year old song or still trying to figure out which band member should receive 18.58% of the blame for the break-up.

One album in 23 years. You know I think it's a tragedy, just like you. What a waste of time and talent.

[GUNNER PT]

the gunners) are humans

Blasphemy...

The Salsh is God and Axel is the Devil ....

[maynard]

[love&hates]

I don't think VR would have been as successful without a big name singer.

have to agree with that.Even with that the success didnt last long, because as far as i know ,there wasnt much positive reaction to the second album

[Free Bird]

I don't think VR would have been as successful without a big name singer.

have to agree with that.Even with that the success didnt last long, because as far as i know ,there wasnt much positive reaction to the second album

Who cares if it would be successful. Would it sound good or not? I think it would sound awesome.

Besides, yeah I think they would be successful even more if they'd stay together. It would sound more like GNR than anything else post '93. That's my opinion

[ludurigan]

Are you guys serious?

Are you really worried about how much success Slash, Duff or Izzy have? Or could have? Or should have? Or could have had? Or whatever?

What about the music?

The songs?

Please answer me: would "Appetite" be worse if it wasn't succesfull?

[love&hates]

I don't think VR would have been as successful without a big name singer.

have to agree with that.Even with that the success didnt last long, because as far as i know ,there wasnt much positive reaction to the second album

Who cares if it would be successful. Would it sound good or not? I think it would sound awesome.

Besides, yeah I think they would be successful even more if they'd stay together. It would sound more like GNR than anything else post '93. That's my opinion

Well yes , judging by everything they did together before ..yes i can believe it would be a good work ,specially in terms of songwritting . look i would be happy having them together ...love izzy like hell , but honestly the idea of him singing with duff dont think would be awesome. That band needed a pure lead singer .

[bacardimayne]

It would've been fucking awful. Izzy can only sing a very particular type of song well and he hasn't written a good song in over 20 years.

[willl]

It would've been fucking awful. Izzy can only sing a very particular type of song well and he hasn't written a good song in over 20 years.

Ban this fool

I've posted what is considered Izzys most popular song as a solo artist, but it is far from his best. In all honesty I consider Izzy to be a far, far superior songwriter to Axl. Every one of Izzys 10 solo albums is just catchy riff after catchy riff, regardless of whether its country, rock, blues, ragga...

I can only hope you're trolling

[WFA]

Chop Away >> Sweet Caress

[bacardimayne]

It would've been fucking awful. Izzy can only sing a very particular type of song well and he hasn't written a good song in over 20 years.

Ban this fool

I've posted what is considered Izzys most popular song as a solo artist, but it is far from his best. In all honesty I consider Izzy to be a far, far superior songwriter to Axl. Every one of Izzys 10 solo albums is just catchy riff after catchy riff, regardless of whether its country, rock, blues, ragga...

I can only hope you're trolling

I agree that Izzy was the best (read: only) songwriter in GNR. I just find his post GNR work to be incredibly boring and uninspired. Clearly the world and the GNR fan base agrees, as I've seen his solo work discussed so infrequently that I couldn't even tell you the names of 3 of his albums.

I can't imagine a world in which a band fronted by Izzy Stradlin (or Duff) would have achieved anywhere near the success that Contraband did. He just isn't a viable lead singer for a commercial rock band, and I fucking LOVE 14 Years and Dust N' Bones.

Edited August 23, 2014 by bacardimayne

[willl]

Chop Away >> Sweet Caress

Grunt >> Chop Away >> Sweet Caress

I'm so pissed off with bacardi for his throwaway comment Izzys solo albums are incredible, and I can't believe any GNR fan seriously thinks Izzy hasn't written a good song in 20 years. He deserves a slap in the face

Edit: Posted after I'd read bacardis reply. You still deserve a slap haha.

Edited August 23, 2014 by downliner

[bacardimayne]

Chop Away >> Sweet Caress

Grunt >> Chop Away >> Sweet Caress

I'm so pissed off with bacardi for his throwaway comment Izzys solo albums are incredible, and I can't believe any GNR fan seriously thinks Izzy hasn't written a good song in 20 years. He deserves a slap in the face

Incredible? Christ almighty you guys are a riot.

[WFA]

Chop Away >> Sweet Caress

Grunt >> Chop Away >> Sweet Caress

I'm so pissed off with bacardi for his throwaway comment Izzys solo albums are incredible, and I can't believe any GNR fan seriously thinks Izzy hasn't written a good song in 20 years. He deserves a slap in the face

Edit: Posted after I'd read bacardis reply. You still deserve a slap haha.

Not a huge fan of Grunt, my fave from 117 is either title track or Surf Roach. I think an HM should he given to FSO Ragga and Run In though

[willl]

Chop Away >> Sweet Caress

Grunt >> Chop Away >> Sweet Caress

I'm so pissed off with bacardi for his throwaway comment Izzys solo albums are incredible, and I can't believe any GNR fan seriously thinks Izzy hasn't written a good song in 20 years. He deserves a slap in the face

Incredible? Christ almighty you guys are a riot.

I put on any Izzy album and I'm immediately tapping my foot or air guitarring/drumming. I put on Chi Dem and I'm still waiting for a catchy hook 10 minutes into the album, same goes for Slash and Duffs solo efforts too. Again in all honesty, I'd sooner listen to "Adler" over Chinese or any Slash/Duff album, because their album is just full of hooks:-

^ This is a rock song. It's heavy, raw, and clearly not pieced together from over 50 seperate recording sessions. That's the essence of rock n roll to me, and I don't mind songs not being perfect - infact I prefer them that way, which is why I listen to a shitload of bootlegs over official releases.

Dont get me wrong, I'm a fan of "new GNR" and I loved the crazier shit like Better Gone and Silkworms because it is original, and it'd be brave if Axl officially released those songs for the public to tear apart. But Chinese, whilst a great album, just doesn't have the same longetivity for me as a classic like Izzy Stradlin & The Ju Ju Hounds.

Not a huge fan of Grunt, my fave from 117 is either title track or Surf Roach. I think an HM should he given to FSO Ragga and Run In though

Good choices This is not "uninspired":

Or how about Raggadubbacrete, songs don't get more awesome than this:-

Edited August 23, 2014 by downliner

[bacardimayne]

Thinks Adler is better than Apocalyptic Love, opinion invalid, thanks for playing.

[WFA]

Raggadubbacrete is a great song I hope Izzy does a reggae album someday.

[bran]

i like izzy a lot but i could never see him or duff being the lead singer for velvet revolver. izzy doesnt have the charisma or the range to be a frontman, and that isnt any disrespect to him.