Healthcare

[AdriftatSea]

Wish I could discus further now but I have to go to bed. Look forward to more conversation on this tomorrow. I do, because I would like to understand the whole point of this program. It makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in how I feel about it either.

[Ace Nova]

I'm living it, I'm not looking at it from a political view point. I'm living it as a citizen. The entire program just does not work. Trust me, it doesn't work.

The percentage of uninsured Americans is currently the lowest it's ever been in the history of the U.S. And it continues to decline.....

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/07/10/percentage-of-uninsured-americans-now-lowest-on-record

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/29/upshot/obamacare-who-was-helped-most.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

[downzy]

I'm living it, I'm not looking at it from a political view point. I'm living it as a citizen. The entire program just does not work. Trust me, it doesn't work.

another big problem is since the law was basically rushed through, there will be some big time unintended(or intended) consequences. which is why some key provisions were delayed until after this election cycle was over and also why now another key provision of the law has a chance of being thrown out by the supreme court.

i can see adriftatsea's point about insurance. my grandmother has a friend whose health insurance went up 33% due to this law. i have a couple of friends who still work at where i left a year or so ago whose hours went from 40-45 hrs a week cut to 25 hours. this law is just a mess and will take a long time to fix IMO.

The one thing that you have to realize is that with any law, there's going to be winners and losers. Undoubtedly, many people who had insurance prior to the passage of the ACA will get a worse deal. But that's not universal, and in fact, not even the majority, as many people are often finding big savings or better plans in the ACA market places compared to their previous insurance coverage. A lot of people who see spikes in their insurance coverage do so because many of their insurance plans were "insurance" in name only - they weren't real insurance plans at all.

I do agree Bran that the law could have been passed and implemented better. But the Democrats weren't given many options to improve passage and implementation considering they were facing a wall of obstruction by the GOP (btw, the Supreme Court will not be invalidating the law due to a typo ). Republican opposition has made improving the law by means of smoothing out its rough edges all but impossible.

[OmarBradley]

I'm living it, I'm not looking at it from a political view point. I'm living it as a citizen. The entire program just does not work. Trust me, it doesn't work.

The percentage of uninsured Americans is currently the lowest it's ever been in the history of the U.S. And it continues to decline.....

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/07/10/percentage-of-uninsured-americans-now-lowest-on-record

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/29/upshot/obamacare-who-was-helped-most.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

Yup, and just to supplement:

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/obamacare-helped-10-million-get-insurance-gallup-finds-n78446

http://online.wsj.com/articles/medicare-social-security-headed-in-different-directions-1406564712

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/healthcostreport_final_noembargo_v2.pdf

[Ace Nova]

I'm living it, I'm not looking at it from a political view point. I'm living it as a citizen. The entire program just does not work. Trust me, it doesn't work.

The percentage of uninsured Americans is currently the lowest it's ever been in the history of the U.S. And it continues to decline.....

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/07/10/percentage-of-uninsured-americans-now-lowest-on-record

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/29/upshot/obamacare-who-was-helped-most.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

Yup, and just to supplement:

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/obamacare-helped-10-million-get-insurance-gallup-finds-n78446

http://online.wsj.com/articles/medicare-social-security-headed-in-different-directions-1406564712

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/healthcostreport_final_noembargo_v2.pdf

Exactly. I specifically like the article stating that Medicare spent less on benefits... thanks to....yep, the ACA. That's what people don't understand yet, because we're not seeing it yet. In the long run, having more people insured will mean that eventually, health care costs will level off.... Possibly even go down.

[AxlisOld]

The ACA is shit. People lose coverage, and they were lied to about keeping it. Coverage is at an all time high, because it is illegal not to have coverage. I won't get into the myriad of things wrong with it, someone who isn't drinking right now can outline it, probably bran.

[magisme]

[Ace Nova]

My insurance premiums, my family's insurance premiums, my friends and associates insurance premiums, for the most part, also went up. The way it was headed, it would have eventually been worse. Just about everyone was in agreement that (at least some) healthcare reform was needed before the passing of the ACA.

What people need to realize is that eventually, we will be all better off. People act as if insurance premiums haven't been skyrocketing over the past 20 years. (Before the ACA passed). They were. Of course, they may have not increased so drastically, in such a short period of time, but they would have continued to increase, nonetheless.

With the ACA, these costs will begin to level off and over the long haul, premiums will not continue to increase at the rate they were increasing before the ACA passed. Some premiums could potentially go down in the future.

[magisme]

Love that hopium.

[Ace Nova]

Love that hopium.

Whatever. It's already happening in medicare and social security benefits....and that's just the tip of the iceberg. More people insured = healthier country = less claims = less premiums. (Obviously, there's a lot more to it, such as less hospital/doctor charge offs for the uninsured will also mean that they can eventually charge less for their services, since they are getting paid from those that were previously uninsured, etc.)

Edited November 19, 2014 by Kasanova King

[Dazey]

Love that hopium.

Whatever. It's already happening in medicare and social security benefits....and that's just the tip of the iceberg. More people insured = healthier country = less claims = less premiums. (Obviously, there's a lot more to it, such as less hospital/doctor charge offs for the uninsured will also mean that they can eventually charge less for their services, since they are getting paid from those that were previously uninsured, etc.)

The problem with that is that it relies on private insurance companies lowering premiums as costs go down rather than simply enjoying higher profits and continuing to fuck the consumer. Edited November 19, 2014 by Dazey

[Ace Nova]

Love that hopium.

Whatever. It's already happening in medicare and social security benefits....and that's just the tip of the iceberg. More people insured = healthier country = less claims = less premiums. (Obviously, there's a lot more to it, such as less hospital/doctor charge offs for the uninsured will also mean that they can eventually charge less for their services, since they are getting paid from those that were previously uninsured, etc.)

The problem with that is that it relies on private insurance companies lowering premiums as costs go down rather than simply enjoying higher profits and continuing to fuck the consumer.

Yes, that is an issue....and a lot of the increases in premiums is exactly that. It's a way for these insurance companies to take a "swing" at the ACA. Eventually, though, there will be other companies that will come into the market, offering more competitive rates.....just like what happened with auto insurance.

[Snake-Pit]

I've been donating for a local cause.

Because, there is a young father of 2 fighting for his life, and Croydon University Hospital a.k.a Mayday sent him home when he went in to A&E complaining of feeling dizzy.

They gave him antibiotics and thought he was drunk.

A day later in July 2014, like July the 8th, he was there, in a Coma!

I believe Marcus (that's his name) had surgery for it when he was a child, so I'm wondering why that wasn't a factor when they decided to call him drunk and send him home.

He had surgery to stop the swelling on his brain; As a child!

His heart stopped and they resuscitated him but said if that would ever happen again, they wouldn't. They haven't even been treating him for his infections!

They have in effect sent this guy Marcus, 22, father of two etc... On the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) designed to care for the dying patient!

The family want him moved to a neurologist in London (literally, not very far)! and Croydon University Hospital told the family they would, but haven't made good on their promise.

It is believed that the neurologist in London could save Marcus's life!

£10, 000 is needed to get him moved and to save this guy's life.

Today, the 19th of November 2014, after the family took it to the high court, the judge ruled in favor of Croydon University's decision to not resuscitate but ruled in favor of the family to have Marcus moved and to have his infections treated.

That is not right and since they misdiagnosed him in the first place and sent him home and deducing that he was drunk and then making the family have to go to court and then have the judge rule their favor, I believe they are entitled to some sort of compensation, but that's just me, I'm glad the court said he has to move and that his infections must be treated.

I blame a stretched NHS that isn't being cut, because a lot of time and money got spent to freeze their budget and bring a lot more services under the NHS umbrella for example, Mental Health is suffering due to this; And so are we, if our hospitals are poor, our people suffer. - So they're not cutting the NHS, they're stretching it's resources, and every year the OAP population gets more and more, the NHS is getting stretched now more than ever.

I made 3 donations to date, I just do a little bit when I can because, that's not right.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Snake-Pit

[Ace Nova]

I've been donating for a local cause.

Because, there is a young father of 2 fighting for his life, and Croydon University Hospital a.k.a Mayday sent him home when he went in to A&E complaining of feeling dizzy.

They gave him antibiotics and thought he was drunk.

A day later in July 2014, like July the 8th, he was there, in a Coma!

I believe Marcus (that's his name) had surgery for it when he was a child, so I'm wondering why that wasn't a factor when they decided to call him drunk and send him home.

He had surgery to stop the swelling on his brain; As a child!

His heart stopped and they resuscitated him but said if that would ever happen again, they wouldn't. They haven't even been treating him for his infections!

They have in effect sent this guy Marcus, 22, father of two etc... On the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) designed to care for the dying patient!

The family want him moved to a neurologist in London (literally, not very far)! and Croydon University Hospital told the family they would, but haven't made good on their promise.

It is believed that the neurologist in London could save Marcus's life!

£10, 000 is needed to get him moved and to save this guy's life.

Today, the 19th of November 2014, after the family took it to the high court, the judge ruled in favor of Croydon University's decision to not resuscitate but ruled in favor of the family to have Marcus moved and to have his infections treated.

That is not right and since they misdiagnosed him in the first place and sent him home and deducing that he was drunk and then making the family have to go to court and then have the judge rule their favor, I believe they are entitled to some sort of compensation, but that's just me, I'm glad the court said he has to move and that his infections must be treated.

I blame a stretched NHS that isn't being cut, because a lot of time and money got spent to freeze their budget and bring a lot more services under the NHS umbrella for example, Mental Health is suffering due to this; And so are we, if our hospitals are poor, our people suffer.

I made 3 donations to date, I just do a little bit when I can because, that's not right.

That's a good cause, Snakepit....good for you. It's unfortunate but misdiagnosis happens in even the richest healthcare systems of the world. Doctors are human and will make human mistakes.

[Snake-Pit]

http://www.change.org/p/croydon-university-hospital-please-transfer-my-brother-to-a-specialist-hospital-fight-to-save-marcus-pleasesavemarcus?share_id=rFzjyjdhCA&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition

[AxlisOld]

Love that hopium.

Whatever. It's already happening in medicare and social security benefits....and that's just the tip of the iceberg. More people insured = healthier country = less claims = less premiums. (Obviously, there's a lot more to it, such as less hospital/doctor charge offs for the uninsured will also mean that they can eventually charge less for their services, since they are getting paid from those that were previously uninsured, etc.)

The problem with that is that it relies on private insurance companies lowering premiums as costs go down rather than simply enjoying higher profits and continuing to fuck the consumer.

Except this law was enacted in the worst way possible. With a government mandate to a private, for profit system. When everyone has to enroll, no company is trying to decide how they can lower premiums, they're just laughing all the way to the bank that more people are now legally required to pay whatever they say. The law is a failure.

Yes, that is an issue....and a lot of the increases in premiums is exactly that. It's a way for these insurance companies to take a "swing" at the ACA. Eventually, though, there will be other companies that will come into the market, offering more competitive rates.....just like what happened with auto insurance.

Don't know why my response ended up in the quote, I'm on my phone and too lazy to copy pasta so I bolded it.

Edited November 19, 2014 by AxlisOld

[arnold layne]

This world is fucked.

[Ace Nova]

You guys need to take a class in capitalism. If these insurance companies begin to charge what they want, to whomever they want...making record breaking profits, etc....what is the next natural course of action in a free market? Obviously other insurance companies will emerge, offering more competitive rates, and so forth. That's the way free markets work, this is no different.

[DirtyDeeds]

If ACA blows so much, then what are conservatives suggesting for healthcare reform?

Oh, that's right. ACA is what conservatives suggested.

[arnold layne]

And then the larger companies buy out the smaller companies because they can afford to lower their prices moreso the little startups and at the same time, lower their standards of service!

[Ace Nova]

And then the larger companies buy out the smaller companies because they can afford to lower their prices moreso the little startups and at the same time, lower their standards of service!

Not really. Auto insurance, for example, used to be voluntary until they made it mandatory. It went up for a time being but then dozens of companies entered the market and it went down drastically, across the board.

[AxlisOld]

If ACA blows so much, then what are conservatives suggesting for healthcare reform?

Oh, that's right. ACA is what conservatives suggested.

I don't give a shit about liberal or conservative, I give a shit about horrible laws being stuffed down my throat at the expense of the American middle class.

[magisme]

If ACA blows so much, then what are conservatives suggesting for healthcare reform?

Oh, that's right. ACA is what conservatives suggested.

I don't give a shit about liberal or conservative, I give a shit about horrible laws being stuffed down my throat at the expense of the American middle class.

And need we mention that since it was what conservatives suggested it was also what liberals, correctly this time, criticized as a boon for Pharma and a song and dance for the people? That's what proves to me that both sides are full of shit. "Conservative" robots are against pretty much what they used to be for because Obama, and "liberal" robots are for what they used to be against because Obama.

Independent thought used to be something treasured in the US. That was a long time ago.

[Rustycage]

I've yet to see anybody that treats the ACA with much praise. Saying it's better than the last system isn't really praising it.

"Hey, check out my new girlfriend."

"Well, she's better looking than a pile of hammered dog shit."

[Dazey]

Love that hopium.

Whatever. It's already happening in medicare and social security benefits....and that's just the tip of the iceberg. More people insured = healthier country = less claims = less premiums. (Obviously, there's a lot more to it, such as less hospital/doctor charge offs for the uninsured will also mean that they can eventually charge less for their services, since they are getting paid from those that were previously uninsured, etc.)

The problem with that is that it relies on private insurance companies lowering premiums as costs go down rather than simply enjoying higher profits and continuing to fuck the consumer.

Except this law was enacted in the worst way possible. With a government mandate to a private, for profit system. When everyone has to enroll, no company is trying to decide how they can lower premiums, they're just laughing all the way to the bank that more people are now legally required to pay whatever they say. The law is a failure.

Yes, that is an issue....and a lot of the increases in premiums is exactly that. It's a way for these insurance companies to take a "swing" at the ACA. Eventually, though, there will be other companies that will come into the market, offering more competitive rates.....just like what happened with auto insurance.

Don't know why my response ended up in the quote, I'm on my phone and too lazy to copy pasta so I bolded it.

Can't disagree with you on most of that. Private and for profit companies shouldn't be involved at all IMO. If you want to buy private insurance that should be your choice but the government should offer everybody an alternative. Those costs quoted by Mags are obscene. I have private coverage here but I've not even bothered using it because I don't have to. The state system has always worked pretty well and it's been great for the wife during her pregnancy.