Healthcare

[downzy]

All insurance is falls under the umbrella of Obamacare since all policies must adhere to the regulations stipulated by the ACA.

So true, not all insurance is purchased through an exchange, but all insurance must still adhere to the rules and regulations set forth in the ACA.

Well I may be just another stupid American incapable of answering questions about the ACA because I haven't memorized a bunch of foreign textbooks or articles floating on the internet, but I do happen to know the above statements are FALSE.

All Americans have the option of purchasing non-compliant (doesn't meet minimum essential coverage) insurance plans and then paying the Obamacare Penalty Fee.

Source: Real life

Well, if you want to get technical about it, you're still under the ACA guidelines since you are paying the fee.

The other thing to note is that non-compliant health insurance is almost as easy to buy as leaded paint these days, and will be virtually non-existent come 2016/2017. Almost all non-compliant healthcare plans do not come with a grandfather clause. Hence from 2016 onwards, it's very unlikely HMOs will offer non-compliant plans. It's important to remember that one of the goals for both the insurance industry and the Obama administration was to get people off catatonic plans and to more comprehensive coverage. It's why several millions were kicked off their plans last year as their insurance did not comply. Going forward, it will be next to impossible to buy a non-compliant plan. Moreover, you wouldn't want to, as the penalty for not having insurance (and in this case having non-compliant insurance) will rise to the point where it makes little fiscal sense to buy a non-compliant plan and pay the penalty.

Non-compliant insurance policies are allowed through 2017, per your idol Mr. Obama's March 2014 announcement. Sure he may be lying again, like he did when he originally promised Americans that they could keep their plans if they like them, but for now we have to take him at his word.

That's besides the point, you once again refuse to acknowledge you were wrong again with yet another one of your lectures in this thread. Ya know, it's okay to admit the times when you're wrong. Yeah it goes against your new image and avatar and all, but it also shows character which is valued by at least some of those who still frequent this forum.

"No one should be ashamed to admit they are wrong, which is but saying in other words that they are wiser today than they were yesterday." ---- Alexander Pope

Can you please provide me a link to an HMO that is selling non-compliant insurance to new customers? You said that Americans can buy non compliant insurance. Show me where new customers, or customers who want to change plans, can do that.

Obviously the grace period wouldn't have been enacted if citizens didn't have the opportunity to take advantage of it. And did I say non-compliant plans couldn't be renewals?

http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20140821/NEWS/308219965

North Dakota has seen 61% of individual policyholders of noncompliant plans from insurers Sanford Health Plan and Medica opt to retain their plans, while 92% of group policyholders chose to stay on their noncompliant plans, said Rebecca Ternes, the state Insurance Department's deputy commissioner.

Wisconsin reportedly featured an extremely high proportion retaining noncompliant plans, above 80%, said Sabrina Corlette, a project director with Georgetown University's Center on Health Insurance Reforms. Florida Blue was able to retain a similarly high proportion of its individual policyholders, she said.

“We're not talking a tiny number here. It's a lot of people who are still on these policies,” she said.

http://www.usabg.net/jpappas/page/7334

In many cases it may be less expensive overall for both the employer and the employee to pay the penalties and then purchase short term major medical insurance through a Section 125 PRA. Under a PRA, the employer can fix their health insurance costs much the same way they do with a 401K plan. Any contribution made by the employer is in the form of pre-tax dollars. Employees can have money withheld from their check in pre-tax dollars to pay premiums. The net result is a lowering of the taxable income for the employee and a lowering of the FICA matching requirement for the employer. In many cases, even including the penalties the employee and the employer save over 50% compared to a ACA compliant plan.

But you're talking about fewer and fewer Americans, who in a couple of years will not be able to buy non-compliant plans at all (it would have happened nation wide had the HHS not moved the deadline). You listed instances in a couple of states, but only 25 states allow for a grace period for non-compliant plans. So you can't say that all Americans can still buy non-compliant plans. Moreover, many people cannot renew plans if those plans see substantive changes or are no longer being offered by HMOs.

[AdriftatSea]

Come on, guys. I just voted for the "too much drama" thread of the year. Don't make me change my vote.

I'll admit I was out of line with some of my comments here last night, especially with Adrift, touche.

And I was out of line with some of my comments to you as well KK. Thanks for saying that.

[Nosaj Thing]

Come on, guys. I just voted for the "too much drama" thread of the year. Don't make me change my vote.

I'll admit I was out of line with some of my comments here last night, especially with Adrift, touche.

And I was out of line with some of my comments to you as well KK. Thanks for saying that.

And this is why you are my favorite female poster.

[AdriftatSea]

Come on, guys. I just voted for the "too much drama" thread of the year. Don't make me change my vote.

I'll admit I was out of line with some of my comments here last night, especially with Adrift, touche.

And I was out of line with some of my comments to you as well KK. Thanks for saying that.

And this is why you are my favorite female poster.

Wow! Thanks Nosaj!

[downzy]

But you're talking about fewer and fewer Americans, who in a couple of years will not be able to buy non-compliant plans at all (it would have happened nation wide had the HHS not moved the deadline). You listed instances in a couple of states, but only 25 states allow for a grace period for non-compliant plans. So you can't say that all Americans can still buy non-compliant plans. Moreover, many people cannot renew plans if those plans see substantive changes or are no longer being offered by HMOs.

Yes, I've already said the option will be around only through 2017. Every American has the option to get on a non-compliant plan, whether it be moving away from a state that doesn't allow it or getting insured through a PRA or whatever. The point is, contrary to what you lectured to Adrift, people have options over the next few years other than getting ACA-compliant insurance. http://obamacarefacts.com/can-i-keep-my-health-care-plan/

"The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS, i.e. the department in charge of ObamaCare) has announced that health insurance plans that were supposed to be canceled by Obamacare by 2014 may be sold through October of 2016 in states that approve of the extension. This essentially extends some non-compliant non-grandfathered plans until 2017"

But realistically, there's a snowball's chance in hell that Obamacare proceeds as currently planned beyond 2017. It will either be repealed or drastically modified by then.

I disagree on both fronts. Republicans would have to win the white house for repeal to happen (and that ain't happening). They'll never agree to modifications. It's all-or-nothing when it comes to touching the ACA for Republicans. It's a shame, because the law certainly isn't perfect and needs tweaks.

As for your assertion that all Americans can still buy non-complaint insurance, that simply isn't true. U.S. citizens living in the 25 states that didn't allow for the extended grace period are already having their non-compliant plans torn up by their HMOs. Second, only people who had non-compliant plans prior to the ACA can retain their non-compliant plans through the grace period. No one new to the market can buy a non-compliant plan. No one who changes their plan can move into a non-compliant plan. Nothing in your links states otherwise. As I asked you before, please provide me links to HMOs that sell non-compliant plans to new customers. If all Americans could still buy non-compliant insurance, then you should be able to produce an HMO that does sell non-compliant insurance to new customers.

Look, I'll admit I should have stated that all insurance must be ACA compliant (with a few exceptions) once the law has been fully implemented (as we're still in the transition period). Adrift's insurance may not be ACA compliant and she and her husband may have the opportunity to renew it for another two years (and that's a big if, many HMOs are cancelling non-compliant insurance as they make more money on more comprehensive plans). So I'll give you that. But to suggest that all Americans can still buy non-compliant insurance is factually untrue.

[downzy]

Anyone following the current Supreme Court case currently fought over Obamacare right now? Perhaps it's just me, but it's pretty interesting stuff. Based on the arguments submitted and the questions posed by the justices, it doesn't look good for the challengers (the people who wanted Obamacare dismantled). I find it particularly interesting how legal analysts assumed the case would be decided on the interpretation of the provision on state exchanges rather than on a federalism perspective (since it seems the conservative judges seem mostly concerned with how siding with the plaintiffs would undermine U.S. federalism).

And in other news:

http://qz.com/356835/obamacare-fixed-us-healthcare-inflation/

The cost of healthcare is rising at the slowest rate since President John F. Kennedy was in office.

A key US healthcare inflation gauge updated earlier this week shows medical care inflation rising 0.55% in January, compared to January 2014. This is the slowest rate since 1961, when healthcare inflation fell sharply amid a broad anti-inflation push launched by Kennedy. (The anti-inflation push came to a famous head when Kennedy all but declared war on US Steel for backing out of a wage and price deal the White House had brokered.)

While healthcare prices started to decline in 2008 as the US economy soured, they’ve taken a sharp leg lower after the passage and implementation of the US Affordable Care Act, widely known as “Obamacare,” in 2010. Some would argue that this merely reflects lessened utilization of healthcare in the aftermath of a recession. That was true for a while. But real spending on medical care—as well as medical hiring—have both turned up sharply over the last year, suggesting rising demand.

It’s hard to overstate how important this. Galloping healthcare inflation was one of the prime reasons the US fiscal future has looked so bleak. Roughly one out of every four dollars spent by the government in the US has gone toward medical care in recent years, mostly through the giant federal programs Medicare and Medicaid. In 2014, lower-than-expected medical costs was one of the main reasons the US budget deficit amounted to a smaller-than-expected 2.8% of GDP.

The mechanism by which Obamacare has corralled healthcare costs remains kind of murky. But it’s important to recognize that a big part of the new law—including caps on Medicare payments and penalties for costly readmissions—was intended to do just that. And it’s working..

[OmarBradley]

The mechanism by which Obamacare has corralled healthcare costs remains kind of murky. But it’s important to recognize that a big part of the new law—including caps on Medicare payments and penalties for costly readmissions—was intended to do just that. And it’s working..

America Works.

[downzy]

The mechanism by which Obamacare has corralled healthcare costs remains kind of murky. But it’s important to recognize that a big part of the new law—including caps on Medicare payments and penalties for costly readmissions—was intended to do just that. And it’s working..

America Works.

I see someone is voting for Frank Underwood in 2016

[arnold layne]

I know I am being overly picky but I wish they picked another name besides Frank Underwood. The name just sounds stupid to me.

[magisme]

American workers already struggling with stagnant wages are being saddled with higher medical bills even as employers reap the benefits of a sustained slowdown in the growth of healthcare costs, a new report indicates.

While employees' insurance premiums and out-of pocket medical expenses shot up 21% from 2007 to 2013 to an average of $3,273 a year, employers' total healthcare costs rose only 14.5%.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-0303-healthcare-employee-costs-20150303-story.html#

And in case you were wondering about healthcare spending per capita. Check out how much awesomer we are at burning cash than everyone else:

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/total-expenditure-on-health-per-capita_20758480-table2

[AxlisOld]

Anyone following the current Supreme Court case currently fought over Obamacare right now? Perhaps it's just me, but it's pretty interesting stuff. Based on the arguments submitted and the questions posed by the justices, it doesn't look good for the challengers (the people who wanted Obamacare dismantled). I find it particularly interesting how legal analysts assumed the case would be decided on the interpretation of the provision on state exchanges rather than on a federalism perspective (since it seems the conservative judges seem mostly concerned with how siding with the plaintiffs would undermine U.S. federalism).

And in other news:

http://qz.com/356835/obamacare-fixed-us-healthcare-inflation/

The cost of healthcare is rising at the slowest rate since President John F. Kennedy was in office.

A key US healthcare inflation gauge updated earlier this week shows medical care inflation rising 0.55% in January, compared to January 2014. This is the slowest rate since 1961, when healthcare inflation fell sharply amid a broad anti-inflation push launched by Kennedy. (The anti-inflation push came to a famous head when Kennedy all but declared war on US Steel for backing out of a wage and price deal the White House had brokered.)

While healthcare prices started to decline in 2008 as the US economy soured, they’ve taken a sharp leg lower after the passage and implementation of the US Affordable Care Act, widely known as “Obamacare,” in 2010. Some would argue that this merely reflects lessened utilization of healthcare in the aftermath of a recession. That was true for a while. But real spending on medical care—as well as medical hiring—have both turned up sharply over the last year, suggesting rising demand.

It’s hard to overstate how important this. Galloping healthcare inflation was one of the prime reasons the US fiscal future has looked so bleak. Roughly one out of every four dollars spent by the government in the US has gone toward medical care in recent years, mostly through the giant federal programs Medicare and Medicaid. In 2014, lower-than-expected medical costs was one of the main reasons the US budget deficit amounted to a smaller-than-expected 2.8% of GDP.

The mechanism by which Obamacare has corralled healthcare costs remains kind of murky. But it’s important to recognize that a big part of the new law—including caps on Medicare payments and penalties for costly readmissions—was intended to do just that. And it’s working..

Well when plans cost the same as before but deductables shoot up to like 5 grand, I don't consider that working.

[Apollo]

Anyone following the current Supreme Court case currently fought over Obamacare right now? Perhaps it's just me, but it's pretty interesting stuff. Based on the arguments submitted and the questions posed by the justices, it doesn't look good for the challengers (the people who wanted Obamacare dismantled). I find it particularly interesting how legal analysts assumed the case would be decided on the interpretation of the provision on state exchanges rather than on a federalism perspective (since it seems the conservative judges seem mostly concerned with how siding with the plaintiffs would undermine U.S. federalism).

And in other news:

http://qz.com/356835/obamacare-fixed-us-healthcare-inflation/

The cost of healthcare is rising at the slowest rate since President John F. Kennedy was in office.

A key US healthcare inflation gauge updated earlier this week shows medical care inflation rising 0.55% in January, compared to January 2014. This is the slowest rate since 1961, when healthcare inflation fell sharply amid a broad anti-inflation push launched by Kennedy. (The anti-inflation push came to a famous head when Kennedy all but declared war on US Steel for backing out of a wage and price deal the White House had brokered.)

While healthcare prices started to decline in 2008 as the US economy soured, theyve taken a sharp leg lower after the passage and implementation of the US Affordable Care Act, widely known as Obamacare, in 2010. Some would argue that this merely reflects lessened utilization of healthcare in the aftermath of a recession. That was true for a while. But real spending on medical careas well as medical hiringhave both turned up sharply over the last year, suggesting rising demand.

Its hard to overstate how important this. Galloping healthcare inflation was one of the prime reasons the US fiscal future has looked so bleak. Roughly one out of every four dollars spent by the government in the US has gone toward medical care in recent years, mostly through the giant federal programs Medicare and Medicaid. In 2014, lower-than-expected medical costs was one of the main reasons the US budget deficit amounted to a smaller-than-expected 2.8% of GDP.

The mechanism by which Obamacare has corralled healthcare costs remains kind of murky. But its important to recognize that a big part of the new lawincluding caps on Medicare payments and penalties for costly readmissionswas intended to do just that. And its working..

Well when plans cost the same as before but deductables shoot up to like 5 grand, I don't consider that working.

Exactly. Another thing not mentioned is the decreasing in co-pay.

My company employs maybe 350 people. This year our insurance agent, who is also on the city wide council and chamber of commerce, said that because of Obamacare the amount we personally paid every month would stay the same .......but our deductible went from 3000 to 5000 and our co-pay went from 80/20 to 70/30. Meaning WE now pay 30% instead of just 20%.

She also said Obamacare is killing small businesses. This is somebody who owns an insurance company and not somebody who is TIED to their political beliefs that dems rule and republicans are evil.

Numbers can be manipulated. Downzy you gotta dig a little deeper than what you just read on the net, buddy!!!!

[downzy]

Anyone following the current Supreme Court case currently fought over Obamacare right now? Perhaps it's just me, but it's pretty interesting stuff. Based on the arguments submitted and the questions posed by the justices, it doesn't look good for the challengers (the people who wanted Obamacare dismantled). I find it particularly interesting how legal analysts assumed the case would be decided on the interpretation of the provision on state exchanges rather than on a federalism perspective (since it seems the conservative judges seem mostly concerned with how siding with the plaintiffs would undermine U.S. federalism).

And in other news:

http://qz.com/356835/obamacare-fixed-us-healthcare-inflation/

The cost of healthcare is rising at the slowest rate since President John F. Kennedy was in office.

A key US healthcare inflation gauge updated earlier this week shows medical care inflation rising 0.55% in January, compared to January 2014. This is the slowest rate since 1961, when healthcare inflation fell sharply amid a broad anti-inflation push launched by Kennedy. (The anti-inflation push came to a famous head when Kennedy all but declared war on US Steel for backing out of a wage and price deal the White House had brokered.)

While healthcare prices started to decline in 2008 as the US economy soured, theyve taken a sharp leg lower after the passage and implementation of the US Affordable Care Act, widely known as Obamacare, in 2010. Some would argue that this merely reflects lessened utilization of healthcare in the aftermath of a recession. That was true for a while. But real spending on medical careas well as medical hiringhave both turned up sharply over the last year, suggesting rising demand.

Its hard to overstate how important this. Galloping healthcare inflation was one of the prime reasons the US fiscal future has looked so bleak. Roughly one out of every four dollars spent by the government in the US has gone toward medical care in recent years, mostly through the giant federal programs Medicare and Medicaid. In 2014, lower-than-expected medical costs was one of the main reasons the US budget deficit amounted to a smaller-than-expected 2.8% of GDP.

The mechanism by which Obamacare has corralled healthcare costs remains kind of murky. But its important to recognize that a big part of the new lawincluding caps on Medicare payments and penalties for costly readmissionswas intended to do just that. And its working..

Well when plans cost the same as before but deductables shoot up to like 5 grand, I don't consider that working.

Exactly. Another thing not mentioned is the decreasing in co-pay.

My company employs maybe 350 people. This year our insurance agent, who is also on the city wide council and chamber of commerce, said that because of Obamacare the amount we personally paid every month would stay the same .......but our deductible went from 3000 to 5000 and our co-pay went from 80/20 to 70/30. Meaning WE now pay 30% instead of just 20%.

She also said Obamacare is killing small businesses. This is somebody who owns an insurance company and not somebody who is TIED to their political beliefs that dems rule and republicans are evil.

Numbers can be manipulated. Downzy you gotta dig a little deeper than what you just read on the net, buddy!!!!

Okay, listen up knuckleheads... You do realize that when analysts measure the rise and fall of medical costs they're not just measuring insurance costs, right? Deductibles have nothing to do with the inherent costs of medical goods and service provided. There is no connection between the rate of price inflation and increasing deductibles or co-pays. The graph I included above speaks to overall price increases within the health service industry. Whether you have a zero deductible or a $10,000 deductible won't affect the price of a CT scan or heart surgery. A main factor for increasing insurance plans have been the rising costs of medical goods and services. Again, the graph doesn't speak to deductibles or necessarily what the average consumer pays, but the overall change in the prices of medical goods and services. That latter is very important, as slower healthcare costs will result in slower insurance premiums.

Apollo, you do realize that the Chamber of Commerce is one of Obamacare's fiercest opponents, right? Repeal of Obamacare has been the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's top priority since it was enacted. You honestly think a representative from such an organization is going to give you the "straight goods." Of course she's going to say that Obamacare is killing small businesses. Except for the fact that it hasn't:

Honestly, don't tell me to "dig a little deeper" if you haven't bothered to dig at all Apollo. If Obamacare was such a job killer, how has the U.S. economy created 200k jobs for the past consecutive months (something that has happened in twenty years). Small businesses were the largest contributors to job gains in February (see here). Come on dude, a member of the Chamber of Commerce isn't tied to their political or ideological beliefs? What planet do you live on? Are you familiar at all with what the Chamber of Commerce is and whose interest they serve?

Now let's examine the claim that Obamacare is directly tied to increasing deductibles. First, the growth in deductibles and co-pays has been noticeably occurring since 2006. This isn't a new phenomenon. These plans originated, and have grown in popularity, since the mid 1990s when Congress passed a law providing tax advantages to health savings accounts for employers so long as they were paired with high-deductible health plans. (see here). High-deductible plans are not a by-product of the ACA, they've been around for a long time and have grown in popularity for the past ten years as employers sought to shift healthcare expenses from themselves onto their employees.

And if you break down who is signing up for health insurance under federal and state exchanges, you'll see that only a minority of people are opting for high-deductible plans (bronze). Around 80 percent of those enrolled opted for silver and gold plans, where deductibles range from zero dollars to $2000. Only 18 percent opt for bronze plans, where deductibles are much higher.

To quote an LA Times article where much of this info is sourced,

"So there's nothing in Obamacare itself that encourages the spread of high deductibles; the law actually gives many Americans more options to avoid them, and a fair percentage are taking those options. The spread of high deductibles has been encouraged by the insurance industry. Blaming Obamacare is just scapegoating."

[Apollo]

Sorry, I knew I shouldn't even comment.

The person who owns the biggest insurance company in my city clearly is lying and just hates Obama because she is also on the chamber of commerce. Weird that coc, which is made up of BUSINESS OWNERS, would be against Obamacare.

So business owners and insurance companies say that it isn't working.......but some dude who lives in another country and who for years has pretty much exclusively praised all things democrats while pretty much exclusively bashed all things republican says that it is working.

Feel free to respond with several more quotes or studies you've found on the internet. I won't be coming back to read them.

Since Obamacare went into effect the cost for my insurance has increased, my deductible has increased the amount of my co-pay has increased. But all that is the fault of somebody else. And my insurance company is just misinformed because Obamacare is an overwhelming success.

Hell, I say we just anoint Obama as the greatest president of all time.

Respond to me if you want. Like I said, I won't be back to see your response. Talking to a closed door is pointless. I love talking politics with people who aren't tied to one political party - but to those who can't look at any situation without attaching a rep/dem bias to it - no thanks.

I don't need to dig a little deeper buddy. I base my opinion on what I see every day with my own two eyes. Not from what I read about other countries on the internet.

Apollo - out. Carry on with the democrat worshipping. And always remember - republicans are evil.

[Bono]

My healthcare is free.

That's all I have to say.

[Dazey]

Healthcare simply shouldn't be in the hands of private businesses. The fact that insurance companies are involved at all is beyond ridiculous.

[AxlisOld]

Notable event, ACA passed, and part time employment skyrockets. You need more part timers not getting company subsidized health insurance to do the work of less full timers that did.

And how am I a knucklehead for thinkjng it's bullshit that our out of pocket share has risen greatly because of this shitty law. I don't care about rising health care costs, I care that I am now responsible for more of the share out of my pocket and responsible for all of it up until some asinine amount.

[downzy]

Notable event, ACA passed, and part time employment skyrockets. You need more part timers not getting company subsidized health insurance to do the work of less full timers that did.

And how am I a knucklehead for thinkjng it's bullshit that our out of pocket share has risen greatly because of this shitty law. I don't care about rising health care costs, I care that I am now responsible for more of the share out of my pocket and responsible for all of it up until some asinine amount.

a) ACA is not responsible for involuntary part-time employment. It's just not. In fact, involuntary part time employment has dropped since its height in 2009:

However, those who were job-locked because of their need for benefits now have the freedom to work-part time and not worry about going without healthcare. As outlined here:

• What Obamacare does seem to have done, by contrast, is liberate more people to work part-time if they choose. Through the first six months of the year, 13.2 percent of U.S. workers were in voluntary part-time jobs, compared with 13.1 percent in 2013. Who is opting for part-time jobs? Mostly younger parents with children, according to CEPR, which supported Obamcare ahead of its passage in 2010.

"This is consistent with a story where many workers who previously needed to work full-time to get health care insurance at their job are taking the option of buying insurance on the exchanges and working part-time jobs in order to have more time to be with young children," Baker and Jorgensen write.

Obamacare's limited impact on the labor market is borne out by other research. Although the main headline out of a February study by the Congressional Budget Office was that the program would stifle job-creation, the agency found that "there is no compelling evidence that part-time work has increased as a result of the ACA."

b) Did you even bother to read what I wrote; increasing deductibles has been a trend long before the ACA passed. There is nothing in the ACA that promotes high-deductible plans (unlike the law passed by a Republican controlled Congress in 1996 that gave tax breaks to high-deductible insurance plans). Most people who choose or are forced to buy their insurance in federal or state exchanges opt for silver or gold plans that have similar deductibles as employer-based plans. Show me cause and effect with what you're arguing. Where in the ACA does it encourage high deductible plans or force employers to move their employees group insurance to high-deductible offerings. Don't just tell me that high-deductible plans are the result of ACA if you can't explain why and how that happens. You're point only highlights correlation, not causation.

[DirtyDeeds]

The law penalizes employers who try to get around offering employees insurance benefits by making more employees part-timers. I think they look at the total number of man-hours a company employs and from that determine how many full-time employees they should theoretically have and calculate what the insurance benefits they should be offering are. That's a really dumbed-down explanation of it, but I think that's basically what happens. So there really isn't an incentive for companies to have a million part timers and 10 full timers.

[downzy]

Sorry, I knew I shouldn't even comment.

The person who owns the biggest insurance company in my city clearly is lying and just hates Obama because she is also on the chamber of commerce. Weird that coc, which is made up of BUSINESS OWNERS, would be against Obamacare.

So business owners and insurance companies say that it isn't working.......but some dude who lives in another country and who for years has pretty much exclusively praised all things democrats while pretty much exclusively bashed all things republican says that it is working.

Feel free to respond with several more quotes or studies you've found on the internet. I won't be coming back to read them.

Since Obamacare went into effect the cost for my insurance has increased, my deductible has increased the amount of my co-pay has increased. But all that is the fault of somebody else. And my insurance company is just misinformed because Obamacare is an overwhelming success.

Hell, I say we just anoint Obama as the greatest president of all time.

Respond to me if you want. Like I said, I won't be back to see your response. Talking to a closed door is pointless. I love talking politics with people who aren't tied to one political party - but to those who can't look at any situation without attaching a rep/dem bias to it - no thanks.

I don't need to dig a little deeper buddy. I base my opinion on what I see every day with my own two eyes. Not from what I read about other countries on the internet.

Apollo - out. Carry on with the democrat worshipping. And always remember - republicans are evil.

Business owners have also been against 40 hour work weeks, mandated vacation time, maternity leave, work-safety laws, corporate taxes, child labor laws, minimum wage laws, etc. Their primary interest is to satisfy either their share holders and/or their own profit margin. That doesn't mean we should discount everything business owners and the Chamber of Commerce has to say, but it doesn't mean we should blindly accept their positions on everything or accept what they put forward to be either factual or valid.

Again Apollo, I'm surprised you're willing to accept an argument purely based on who says it, rather than on the merits of what it purports. I agree that talking to a closed door is pointless, but between the two of us, who engages the arguments each of us makes with facts, figures, and statistics versus ad hominem and personal attacks? No where in my post to you did I claim that all Republicans are evil. I instead focused on the claims your purported business leader provided you (Obamacare is killing small businesses and jobs). I also countered Axlisold's argument that the ACA is directly responsible for increases in deductibles. If you have evidence or facts that disrupt my own, please bring them forward. I'd be happy to debate and discuss the topic on its merits rather than on who authors such arguments.

No offense, but you do realize how sad it sounds when you won't even listen to someone who has a different opinion than your own. Ask yourself, how would such an approach suits you with GNR discussions? You continually advocate that people should be open to other people's opinion with respect to Slash and Axl, but when it comes to talking politics, you could care less about having your opinions challenged. If what I say is so categorically untrue, shouldn't it be easy to refute? Why resort to bluster and ad hominem over an issue where your opinion is so clearly closer to reality?

[netcat]

The mechanism by which Obamacare has corralled healthcare costs remains kind of murky. But it’s important to recognize that a big part of the new law—including caps on Medicare payments and penalties for costly readmissions—was intended to do just that. And it’s working..

America Works.

America Works works

[magisme]

Good times.

[magisme]

Major insurers in some states are proposing hefty rate boosts for plans sold under the federal health law, setting the stage for an intense debate this summer over the law’s impact.

In New Mexico, market leader Health Care Service Corp. is asking for an average jump of 51.6% in premiums for 2016. The biggest insurer in Tennessee, BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee, has requested an average 36.3% increase. In Maryland, market leader CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield wants to raise rates 30.4% across its products.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/health-insurers-seek-hefty-rate-boosts-1432244042

[arnold layne]

Kind of off topic but I noticed that the amount of shit we need to pay in order to slave another day (i.e. healthcare, gasoline, rent, and insurance) has taken a major toll on other parts of society.

The amount of people who pay with SNAP benefits at the gas station is baffling, and these aren't people that are grubby, unemployed, deadbeats.

No. A lot of of these people have reasonable jobs. I'm not sure if they're cheating the system, but for real, for a country that was founded on the notion that we'd be free from bullshit taxation and fees, we've succumbed to quite the opposite.

Wages are shit, and bills are too fucking much.

[AxlisOld]

All hail Obama and the magical savior law!