Two NYPD officers shot and killed

[Snowmass]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

[Jakey Styley]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

Al's done a lot of work in Chicago and has also publicly denounced violence towards police following this incident. Regardless, I'm not sure what you think you're proving.

[AdriftatSea]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

Al's done a lot of work in Chicago and has also publicly denounced violence towards police following this incident. Regardless, I'm not sure what you think you're proving.

Rev Al and Jesse Jackson were run out of Ferguson. They tried to collect money from the protesters; they were booed and run out of town. They are opportunists that thrive off the misfortune of others.

[downzy]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

That's a fine comment to make if you want to speak critically of Al Sharpton, but Sharpton isn't the movement, and the movement shouldn't be discredited because of how distasteful we all find certain media personalities.

[Apollo]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

That's a fine comment to make if you want to speak critically of Al Sharpton, but Sharpton isn't the movement, and the movement shouldn't be discredited because of how distasteful we all find certain media personalities.

Unless they are republicans or personalities that don't think everything about America is bad.....then we must villify them at all costs!!!!

(I kid, I kid. Mostly.)

[Snowmass]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

That's a fine comment to make if you want to speak critically of Al Sharpton, but Sharpton isn't the movement, and the movement shouldn't be discredited because of how distasteful we all find certain media personalities.

OK- why isn't "the movement" going ape shit in Chicago?

[Dan H.]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

He was in Chicago two months ago addressing black on black violence.

I image he's been busy with Ferguson, and with press releases offering his condolences to the families of the murdered officers and denouncing violence

[Snowmass]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

He was in Chicago two months ago addressing black on black violence.

I image he's been busy with Ferguson, and with press releases offering his condolences to the families of the murdered officers and denouncing violence

Wow- he must be busy. How does he get so much time off from his job? Speaking of- how exactly does he make a living?

[wasted]

The cops killed more people this year than died in the whole Iraq war.

Maybe not so much fuck the police, but definitely fear the police.

Whether its racism or incompetence they are doing a Cracker Jack job of keeping people calm.

[Dan H.]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

He was in Chicago two months ago addressing black on black violence.

I image he's been busy with Ferguson, and with press releases offering his condolences to the families of the murdered officers and denouncing violence

Wow- he must be busy. How does he get so much time off from his job? Speaking of- how exactly does he make a living?

Reverend, talk show host, activist, White House advisor.

I'm sure somewhere between those three jobs he's doing fine

[Len Cnut]

Out of interest, cuz i dont know, not cuz its leading somewhere, why do Americans dislike people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson?

EDIT: Oh wait, talkshow host?

Edited December 23, 2014 by Lennie Godber

[downzy]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

That's a fine comment to make if you want to speak critically of Al Sharpton, but Sharpton isn't the movement, and the movement shouldn't be discredited because of how distasteful we all find certain media personalities.

OK- why isn't "the movement" going ape shit in Chicago?

A) There's a little bit of a difference between the death of individuals at the hands of a police force and fellow citizens. While black-on-black violence is a major issue, discrimination by a legal system that is meant to be blind to skin colour is by far a bigger issue.

B) There are protests held within Chicago and other urban cities by prominent African-Americans all the time. They're just not as widely reported.

[Rustycage]

While black-on-black violence is a major issue..........

It's a myth.

[Snowmass]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

That's a fine comment to make if you want to speak critically of Al Sharpton, but Sharpton isn't the movement, and the movement shouldn't be discredited because of how distasteful we all find certain media personalities.

OK- why isn't "the movement" going ape shit in Chicago?

A) There's a little bit of a difference between the death of individuals at the hands of a police force and fellow citizens. While black-on-black violence is a major issue, discrimination by a legal system that is meant to be blind to skin colour is by far a bigger issue.

B) There are protests held within Chicago and other urban cities by prominent African-Americans all the time. They're just not as widely reported.

A- the dumbass murdered 2 minority cops. And the cops (in these 2 incidents atleast) didn't just mow down some innocent people. They were thugs. No matter what color you are- if a cop says jump then jump. If a cop says bark like a dog just do it. Don't argue with a cop. Save it for court. B- need to me. Maybe because only about 3 prior show up. No one wants to "snitch" or violate some code. Edited December 23, 2014 by Snowmass

[Rustycage]

if a cop says jump then jump. If a cop says bark like a dog just do it. Don't argue with a cop. Save it for court.

I hope people with this mentality are never confused as to why the police are becoming more militarized and free from consequences of their actions. There is no other word for it than STUPID.

[downzy]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

That's a fine comment to make if you want to speak critically of Al Sharpton, but Sharpton isn't the movement, and the movement shouldn't be discredited because of how distasteful we all find certain media personalities.

OK- why isn't "the movement" going ape shit in Chicago?

A) There's a little bit of a difference between the death of individuals at the hands of a police force and fellow citizens. While black-on-black violence is a major issue, discrimination by a legal system that is meant to be blind to skin colour is by far a bigger issue.

B) There are protests held within Chicago and other urban cities by prominent African-Americans all the time. They're just not as widely reported.

A- the dumbass murdered 2 minority cops. And the cops (in these 2 incidents atleast) didn't just mow down some innocent people. They were thugs. No matter what color you are- if a cop says jump then jump. If a cop says bark like a dog just do it. Don't argue with a cop. Save it for court.

Your point was why there isn't protests over the violence that plagues Chicago. So not sure why you're making an issue now on the race of the cops. It has nothing to do with your previous point.

And no, that's not how the criminal system is set up or meant to work. The police are there to "serve and protect." They are not given blanket authority and are not meant to be obeyed if they are violating a person's civil rights. Your argument was the same one used against demonstrators in the walk to Selma back in the 1960s. Should MLK Jr. and his followers listened then?

Moreover, it's been documented that overbearing and cavalier tactics are used far more frequently against the black community than other communities. That's what the protests are about.

While black-on-black violence is a major issue..........

It's a myth.

I disagree. When you examine murder rates, the majority of victims are black and their attackers are also black. We can discuss the reasons for why that is, but let's not pretend that murder victims aren't disproportionally one colour.

[Rustycage]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

That's a fine comment to make if you want to speak critically of Al Sharpton, but Sharpton isn't the movement, and the movement shouldn't be discredited because of how distasteful we all find certain media personalities.

OK- why isn't "the movement" going ape shit in Chicago?

A) There's a little bit of a difference between the death of individuals at the hands of a police force and fellow citizens. While black-on-black violence is a major issue, discrimination by a legal system that is meant to be blind to skin colour is by far a bigger issue.

B) There are protests held within Chicago and other urban cities by prominent African-Americans all the time. They're just not as widely reported.

A- the dumbass murdered 2 minority cops. And the cops (in these 2 incidents atleast) didn't just mow down some innocent people. They were thugs. No matter what color you are- if a cop says jump then jump. If a cop says bark like a dog just do it. Don't argue with a cop. Save it for court.

Your point was why there isn't protests over the violence that plagues Chicago. So not sure why you're making an issue now on the race of the cops. It has nothing to do with your previous point.

And no, that's not how the criminal system is set up or meant to work. The police are there to "serve and protect." They are not given blanket authority and are not meant to be obeyed if they are violating a person's civil rights. Your argument was the same one used against demonstrators in the walk to Selma back in the 1960s. Should MLK Jr. and his followers listened then?

Moreover, it's been documented that overbearing and cavalier tactics are used far more frequently against the black community than other communities. That's what the protests are about.

While black-on-black violence is a major issue..........

It's a myth.

I disagree. When you examine murder rates, the majority of victims are black and their attackers are also black. We can discuss the reasons for why that is, but let's not pretend that murder victims aren't disproportionally one colour.

From 1976 to 2005:

86% of white victims are harmed by white offenders.

93% of black victims were harmed by black offenders.

There is no specific "black on black" crime just as there isn't a white on white crime. The crime is by proximity and opportunity, not by race. A 7% difference is not an issue that is major and relevant to any of these current discussions. It's just more distraction.

[downzy]

Where is (ahem) the Rev Al when it comes to Chicago? Hundreds of murdered blacks (and other races) but not one protest...not one "Black Lives Matter" rally. Interesting.

That's a fine comment to make if you want to speak critically of Al Sharpton, but Sharpton isn't the movement, and the movement shouldn't be discredited because of how distasteful we all find certain media personalities.

OK- why isn't "the movement" going ape shit in Chicago?

A) There's a little bit of a difference between the death of individuals at the hands of a police force and fellow citizens. While black-on-black violence is a major issue, discrimination by a legal system that is meant to be blind to skin colour is by far a bigger issue.

B) There are protests held within Chicago and other urban cities by prominent African-Americans all the time. They're just not as widely reported.

A- the dumbass murdered 2 minority cops. And the cops (in these 2 incidents atleast) didn't just mow down some innocent people. They were thugs. No matter what color you are- if a cop says jump then jump. If a cop says bark like a dog just do it. Don't argue with a cop. Save it for court.

Your point was why there isn't protests over the violence that plagues Chicago. So not sure why you're making an issue now on the race of the cops. It has nothing to do with your previous point.

And no, that's not how the criminal system is set up or meant to work. The police are there to "serve and protect." They are not given blanket authority and are not meant to be obeyed if they are violating a person's civil rights. Your argument was the same one used against demonstrators in the walk to Selma back in the 1960s. Should MLK Jr. and his followers listened then?

Moreover, it's been documented that overbearing and cavalier tactics are used far more frequently against the black community than other communities. That's what the protests are about.

While black-on-black violence is a major issue..........

It's a myth.

I disagree. When you examine murder rates, the majority of victims are black and their attackers are also black. We can discuss the reasons for why that is, but let's not pretend that murder victims aren't disproportionally one colour.

From 1976 to 2005:

86% of white victims are harmed by white offenders.

93% of black victims were harmed by black offenders.

There is no specific "black on black" crime just as there isn't a white on white crime. The crime is by proximity and opportunity, not by race. A 7% difference is not an issue that is major and relevant to any of these current discussions. It's just more distraction.

That just proves that crime (and people in general) are still segregated. It doesn't speak to the disproportionate number of black people who are murdered compared to their white counterparts:

The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites (per 100,000), and the victim rate 6 times higher (per 100,000).

[Rustycage]

Entertaining that myth of the "huge problem of black on black crime" is serving nothing but the fear that somehow blacks are more violent than other races. It is simply a hyperbolic and biased lie.

In 1991, over 7,000 black victims were attacked by other blacks.

In 2011, the number had decreased to just over 2,000.

That decrease over 20 years was nearly 70% faster than "white on white crime."

In the last 40 years, robberies committed by black youths is at it's lowest.

What keeps that lie going? The disproportionate amount of convictions and sentencing for black offenders. Once you look past the basic statistics, the problem isn't with one race against another race or blacks versus blacks, it's about economics and the inequality in the justice system.

It doesn't speak to the disproportionate number of black people who are murdered compared to their white counterparts:

Yes. it. does.

Again, over 30 years, as of 2005, the difference is 7%.

As for your bolded, you're proving my point that is about proximity and economics NOT by racial factors. Continuing the AMERICAN lie that blacks are more violent is gnot going to address anything here.

[Rustycage]

Just what is the discussion of "black on black crime" doing in the discussion of cops harassing/killing blacks or people striking back at cops?

[downzy]

Entertaining that myth of the "huge problem of black on black crime" is serving nothing but the fear that somehow blacks are more violent than other races. It is simply a hyperbolic and biased lie.

In 1991, over 7,000 black victims were attacked by other blacks.

In 2011, the number had decreased to just over 2,000.

That decrease over 20 years was nearly 70% faster than "white on white crime."

In the last 40 years, robberies committed by black youths is at it's lowest.

What keeps that lie going? The disproportionate amount of convictions and sentencing for black offenders. Once you look past the basic statistics, the problem isn't with one race against another race or blacks versus blacks, it's about economics and the inequality in the justice system.

It doesn't speak to the disproportionate number of black people who are murdered compared to their white counterparts:

Yes. it. does.

Again, over 30 years, as of 2005, the difference is 7%.

As for your bolded, you're proving my point that is about proximity and economics NOT by racial factors. Continuing the AMERICAN lie that blacks are more violent is gnot going to address anything here.

No where did I say that blacks are more inherently violent than other races, but it is a fact that they commit a disproportionate number of murders relative to the population as a whole.

Agreed, much of the root causes are economic and political, but pointing out that murder occurs on a segregated basis still does not bely the fact that the murder rate is much higher in the African American community than it is in other communities.

All these other stats you cite do not disqualify that basic fact. Again, this isn't an argument that suggests that blacks are inherently more violent, but that many live in conditions that are conducive to such violence.

Just what is the discussion of "black on black crime" doing in the discussion of cops harassing/killing blacks or people striking back at cops?

It's not, but you're the one who first took issue with it.

[Rustycage]

Here in America, the whole premise every time one of the conservatives likes to start talking about black on black crime, it IS to portray them as more violent. It IS to portray it as a problem only confined to black communities because of local factors. It IS to justify the cops attitudes and behavior in those communities.

To even acknowledge the framework of that discussion is a disservice to the actual topics.

When a community has more guns, more drugs, less opportunity and no education, of course murder may happen more disproportionately. Especially when calling the cops isn't a viable option. It is not a "black" problem.

Black on black CRIME is no different than white on white crime. I guess if in a white neighborhood, it was as pointless to call the cops, perhaps handling the problems themselves may result in more violence.

Legitimate issues are now flaccid once we focus on the distraction.

[Rustycage]

It's not, but you're the one who first took issue with it.

Because it's a distraction. It's the same flaccid discussion everyone tried in the Rodney King case. Why? Because it justifies the cops' "fear of the black man." It excuses the more heavy handed tactics. This started recently over the Michael Brown case. It has zero to do with that case. But it didn't stop people from throwing it out there.

[downzy]

Here in America, the whole premise every time one of the conservatives likes to start talking about black on black crime, it IS to portray them as more violent. It IS to portray it as a problem only confined to black communities because of local factors. It IS to justify the cops attitudes and behavior in those communities.

To even acknowledge the framework of that discussion is a disservice to the actual topics.

When a community has more guns, more drugs, less opportunity and no education, of course murder may happen more disproportionately. Especially when calling the cops isn't a viable option. It is not a "black" problem.

Black on black CRIME is no different than white on white crime. I guess if in a white neighborhood, it was as pointless to call the cops, perhaps handling the problems themselves may result in more violence.

Legitimate issues are now flaccid once we focus on the distraction.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying. But you can't look at the body toll taking place in the streets of Chicago, Detroit, and Baltimore and not at least acknowledge that there's a problem there. You're right in that race shouldn't be main qualifier in this discussion, as I'm sure that any race living in those conditions would suffer similarity.

When I say that "black-on-black" crime is important, I'm not specifically talking about race but how political and judicial policies have resulted in communities where violence against black people by black people is a problem.

[Rustycage]

From the Depart of Justice

When I say that "black-on-black" crime is important, I'm not specifically talking about race but how political and judicial policies have resulted in communities where violence against black people by black people is a problem.

It's not much more of a problem than white on white. In terms of murder it's 84%(white) and 93%(black). It's only labeled a much bigger problem to justify the fear of the communities and the people in it. It does nothing to promote business there. It does nothing to promote more educators in those communities. The list can go on but the main conclusion is it:

1: Feeds the fear

2: Distracts from the topic

It's irrelevant to Rodney King. It's irrelevant to Trayvon Martin. It's irrelevant to Mike Brown. It's irrelevant to Eric Garner. It's irrelevant to Tamir Rice. It's irrelevant to the killing of the cops. It's just fear mongering. There is no black on black problem that should be looked at any differently than white on white. It's simply economic and that could apply to anyone. If we started discussing the problem of white on white crime, would we try to conclude that whites are inherently violent or criminal? Of course not.

Whether or not people want to admit it, we're all in the same boat and that stuff only divides.