GnR’s place in hard rock history?

[Rovim]

i think it's funny people dont count lies as a complete album, yet almost every led zeppelin album featured 8 or 9 tracks.

Dude, there were like three new songs on it. It's like releasing a greatest hits album with only two new songs. I suppose officially it's an album, but that's not what we mean.

Anyway, a lot of people are always bashing McCartney because he was the happy-go-lucky guy and prefer Lennon as the 'tortured artist', but when you make a top ten favourite Beatles songs you'd be surprised how many were written solely by McCartney.

No Paul, no Beatles. He was the one who always wanted to work on music. He was Lennon's only real writing partner. But I'm derailing.

[Sixes]

It all depends on one's definition of hard rock but I'd say the top 25 would be , in no particular order...and certainly not a list of my favorite bands...

Led Zeppelin

Cream

Jimi Hendrix

Deep Purple

Motorhead

Alice Cooper

Judas Priest

Rush

Iron Maiden

Bon Jovi

Def Leppard

Guns N' Roses

Black Sabbath

Metallica

Tool

Rage Against The Machine

Queen

Ozzy Osbourne

Soundgarden

Pantera

Megadeth

Van Halen

Aerosmith

AC/DC

KISS

[Rovim]

It all depends on one's definition of hard rock but I'd say the top 25 would be , in no particular order...and certainly not a list of my favorite bands...

Led Zeppelin

Cream

Jimi Hendrix

Deep Purple

Motorhead

Alice Cooper

Judas Priest

Rush

Iron Maiden

Bon Jovi

Def Leppard

Guns N' Roses

Black Sabbath

Metallica

Tool

Rage Against The Machine

Queen

Ozzy Osbourne

Soundgarden

Pantera

Megadeth

Van Halen

Aerosmith

AC/DC

KISS

The only really good ones in your list are: Guns, Cream, The Experience. I like most of those bands though, but they can't be considered the best imo. And what about The Who? The Doors even.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Rovim

[Sixes]

It all depends on one's definition of hard rock but I'd say the top 25 would be , in no particular order...and certainly not a list of my favorite bands...

Led Zeppelin

Cream

Jimi Hendrix

Deep Purple

Motorhead

Alice Cooper

Judas Priest

Rush

Iron Maiden

Bon Jovi

Def Leppard

Guns N' Roses

Black Sabbath

Metallica

Tool

Rage Against The Machine

Queen

Ozzy Osbourne

Soundgarden

Pantera

Megadeth

Van Halen

Aerosmith

AC/DC

KISS

The only really good ones in your list are: Guns, Cream, The Experience. I like most of those bands though, but they can't be considered the best imo. And what about The Who? The Doors even.

It all depends on your definition of hard rock

No way would I put The Doors on a hard rock list.

The Who can be debated.

Give me your list....and don't make it your favorites. I didn't. I really dislike half of those bands. I despise Cream and Pantera in particular but can't discount their influence and legacy.

I tried to pick the most influential, the most enduring

[Rovim]

My list:

Best band ever: The Beatles

Best hard rock band ever: The Jimi Hendrix Experience

The Stones, The Who, The Doors, Cream etc, follow.

Chuck Berry is rock n' roll in many ways.

Guns are one of the best hard rock bands that ever was. The genre was mined to shit before they came up, Jimi's reach was extensive. But they've refined it to such a degree that I'm glad someone did it. Especially what they did on Appetite. Like they took The Stones, Chuck Berry, Zeppelin, AC/DC, lynard, and Aerosmith, some metal and Punk and later on also Queen and Elton John with November Rain etc and made something that was great and unified.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Rovim

[maynard]

If GNR were an ice cream flavor, what would it be?

[Sixes]

My list:

Best band ever: The Beatles

Best hard rock band ever: The Jimi Hendrix Experience

The Stones, The Who, The Doors, Cream etc, follow.

Chuck Berry is rock n' roll in many ways.

Guns are one of the best hard rock bands that ever was. The genre was mined to shit before they came up, Jimi's reach was extensive. But they've refined it to such a degree that I'm glad someone did it. Especially what they did on Appetite. Like they took The Stones, Chuck Berry, Zeppelin, AC/DC, lynard, and Aerosmith, some metal and later on also Queen and Elton John with November Rain etc and made something that was great.

My list wasnt best bands ever, it was best hard rock bands

Off the top of my head....best ever overall would be....

Elvis Presley

Chuck Berry

The Clash

The Who

Bob Dylan

Beatles

Rolling Stones

Black Sabbath

James Brown

The Kinks

If GNR were an ice cream flavor, what would it be?

Mint chocolate chip because that's the most overrated ice cream flavor

Edited December 21, 2015 by Sixes

[Rovim]

My list:

Best band ever: The Beatles

Best hard rock band ever: The Jimi Hendrix Experience

The Stones, The Who, The Doors, Cream etc, follow.

Chuck Berry is rock n' roll in many ways.

Guns are one of the best hard rock bands that ever was. The genre was mined to shit before they came up, Jimi's reach was extensive. But they've refined it to such a degree that I'm glad someone did it. Especially what they did on Appetite. Like they took The Stones, Chuck Berry, Zeppelin, AC/DC, lynard, and Aerosmith, some metal and later on also Queen and Elton John with November Rain etc and made something that was great.

My list wasnt best bands ever, it was best hard rock bands

Off the top of my head....best ever overall would be....

Elvis Presley

Chuck Berry

The Clash

The Who

Bob Dylan

Beatles

Rolling Stones

Black Sabbath

James Brown

The Kinks

I didn't know we were counting Bob Dylan as a band. Which era? anyway...

Elvis didn't write shit so that's out. (still great)

All great bands and artists, but not so sure about Sabbath. I like Sabbath, but it is inferior just cause it's metal. Nothing wrong with metal though. It's like a retarded kid.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Rovim

[Apollo]

I wouldn't call The Stones hard rock either. Not trying to t.r.o.l.l. I just got off topic a little bit. On topic: I think The Jimi Experience was psychedelic bluesy hard rock. I consider them to be the finest hard rock group ever.

Whenever somebody disagrees with him be always says they are t-rolling.

Beatles are most overrated band in history.

Every American soldier should be doing longer jail sentences than Charles Manson.

Manson being in prison is the most hypocritical action in the history of the U.S.

That's the kind of deep thinker you are dealing with.

[Free Bird]

It all depends on one's definition of hard rock but I'd say the top 25 would be , in no particular order...and certainly not a list of my favorite bands...

Led Zeppelin

Cream

Jimi Hendrix

Deep Purple

Motorhead

Alice Cooper

Judas Priest

Rush

Iron Maiden

Bon Jovi

Def Leppard

Guns N' Roses

Black Sabbath

Metallica

Tool

Rage Against The Machine

Queen

Ozzy Osbourne

Soundgarden

Pantera

Megadeth

Van Halen

Aerosmith

AC/DC

KISS

The only really good ones in your list are: Guns, Cream, The Experience. I like most of those bands though, but they can't be considered the best imo. And what about The Who? The Doors even.

You can't say Guns belongs to the best but AC/DC, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and Sabbath doesn't. It's your personal preference but objectively it's not possible.

Btw: I wouldn't consider Jimi Hendrix Hard Rock either.

[Rovim]

The only really good ones in your list are: Guns, Cream, The Experience. I like most of those bands though, but they can't be considered the best imo. And what about The Who? The Doors even.

You can't say Guns belongs to the best but AC/DC, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and Sabbath doesn't. It's your personal preference but objectively it's not possible.

Btw: I wouldn't consider Jimi Hendrix Hard Rock either.

Jimi was bluesy hard rock. He was also a great blues player, but his main musical avenue was psychedelic bluesy hard rock. Just because there are heavier bands, doesn't mean it's not hard rock.

AC/DC same shit, different day. Bon Scott Era was the best, both eras great, but horrid lyrics and just Australian douchebaggery at it's finest. A lot of fun when I'm in the mood, but it's too silly to be considered one of the best. I'm a fan though.

Zeppelin are larpers, the music is problematic, I still love it for the most part, but something is missing. Purple for the most part horrid lyrics, very heavy for it's time, but kinda aimless. Ritchie is a rare talent. The band top musicians. I like them, some classic albums, but elements from rock n' roll missing imo.

Already shared some of my thoughts on Sabbath.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Rovim

[Free Bird]

The only really good ones in your list are: Guns, Cream, The Experience. I like most of those bands though, but they can't be considered the best imo. And what about The Who? The Doors even.

You can't say Guns belongs to the best but AC/DC, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and Sabbath doesn't. It's your personal preference but objectively it's not possible.

Btw: I wouldn't consider Jimi Hendrix Hard Rock either.

Jimi was bluesy hard rock. He was also a great blues player, but his main musical avenue was psychedelic bluesy hard rock. Just because there are heavier bands, doesn't mean it's not hard rock.

AC/DC same shit, different day. Bon Scott Era was the best, both eras great, but horrid lyrics and just Australian douchebaggery at it's finest. A lot of fun when I'm in the mood, but it's too silly to be considered one of the best. I'm a fan though.

Zeppelin are larpers, the music is problematic, I still love it for the most part, but something is missing. Purple for the most part horrid lyrics, very heavy for it's time, but kinda aimless. Ritchie is a rare talent. The band top musicians. I like them, some classic albums, but elements from rock n' roll missing imo.

Already shared some of my thoughts on Sabbath.

Regardless of your opinion on those bands they've done a lot for the rockmusic.

You praise Beatles for influence a lot of bands and in the same time you discredit those bands just because you don't like their lyrics or whatever.

I don't like a single Beatles song but I know what they've done for the music and I respect that. Regardless of my personal preference.

Zeppelin, Purple, Sabbath, DC... all of them are giants in rockmusic and all of them have influenced the music a lot. Probably more than Guns. No... sure more than Guns.

I still don't consider Hendrix hard rock.

It's blues rock.

[Rovim]

Regardless of your opinion on those bands they've done a lot for the rockmusic.

You praise Beatles for influence a lot of bands and in the same time you discredit those bands just because you don't like their lyrics or whatever.

I don't like a single Beatles song but I know what they've done for the music and I respect that. Regardless of my personal preference.

Zeppelin, Purple, Sabbath, DC... all of them are giants in rockmusic and all of them have influenced the music a lot. Probably more than Guns. No... sure more than Guns.

I still don't consider Hendrix hard rock.

It's blues rock.

It's not just because of lyrics. It's the whole work. What they had to say and how they said it musically. Of course it's only my opinion. But no matter how many times you'll say Jimi was blues rock it won't change the fact it belonged to hard rock and it was bluesy. Some music just became heavier as time went by, so music from the past is falsely being considered "not heavy enough", not hard rock when imo, it's the best example of hard rock.

Zeppelin was a dead end. Sabbath was metal. AC/DC kind of a joke. If we're gonna name the best, we must be strict. But again, I still like those bands and listen to their music.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Rovim

[Free Bird]

Regardless of your opinion on those bands they've done a lot for the rockmusic.

You praise Beatles for influence a lot of bands and in the same time you discredit those bands just because you don't like their lyrics or whatever.

I don't like a single Beatles song but I know what they've done for the music and I respect that. Regardless of my personal preference.

Zeppelin, Purple, Sabbath, DC... all of them are giants in rockmusic and all of them have influenced the music a lot. Probably more than Guns. No... sure more than Guns.

I still don't consider Hendrix hard rock.

It's blues rock.

It's not just because of lyrics. It's the whole work. What they had to say and how they said it musically. Of course it's only my opinion. But no matter how many times you'll say Jimi was blues rock it won't change the fact it belonged to hard rock and it was bluesy. Some music just became heavier as time went by, so music from the past is falsely being considered "not hard enough", not hard rock when imo, it's the best example of hard rock.

Zeppelin was a dead end. Sabbath was metal. AC/DC kind of a joke. If we're gonna name the best, we must be strict. But again, I still like those bands and listen to their music.

We simply disagree

[Rovim]

We simply disagree

Yeah, cause you're simply wrong.

[Tom2112]

...I despise Pink Floyd...

This hurts me more than any other post I've ever read.

I don't get the appeal. At all. And I have listened to every album multiple times. I just don't get it. Same with U2.

At least The Beatles, I understand. It makes sense.

Floyd to me is just babble disguised as high art.

I had the same experience and then one day something clicked, now I really like Pink Floyd. What I like about Pink Floyd is the flow of the records, the reoccurring musical themes, and obviously David Gilmour! he's one tasteful guitar player, who has come up with some of the finest songs and solo's of the last 40+ years.

Where would I place GnR on such a list? well, I don't think it matters how many records they have (are the sex pistols any less important because they have 2 records?). What's more important is their influence... and even the most ardent detractors of GnR can't deny the obvious influence GnR have had on popular music.

GnR are top 50, they are still considered a classic band despite the last 20 years. I'm not delusional, they are not in the conversation for top 10/20, maybe if they had stuck together... OR, maybe if they reunite and turn things around with one or two great albums and 10 or so years of good concerts they might be put into that conversation... a big but! though.

Most importantly above all, is that any such list doesn't mean a shit, GnR, or any other bands place in history is decided by the people that listen to them, everybody will place different bands in different orders... or not place certain bands at all. If YOU like someone thats all that matters.

[foghat43]

Regardless of your opinion on those bands they've done a lot for the rockmusic.

You praise Beatles for influence a lot of bands and in the same time you discredit those bands just because you don't like their lyrics or whatever.

I don't like a single Beatles song but I know what they've done for the music and I respect that. Regardless of my personal preference.

Zeppelin, Purple, Sabbath, DC... all of them are giants in rockmusic and all of them have influenced the music a lot. Probably more than Guns. No... sure more than Guns.

I still don't consider Hendrix hard rock.

It's blues rock.

It's not just because of lyrics. It's the whole work. What they had to say and how they said it musically. Of course it's only my opinion. But no matter how many times you'll say Jimi was blues rock it won't change the fact it belonged to hard rock and it was bluesy. Some music just became heavier as time went by, so music from the past is falsely being considered "not heavy enough", not hard rock when imo, it's the best example of hard rock.

Zeppelin was a dead end. Sabbath was metal. AC/DC kind of a joke. If we're gonna name the best, we must be strict. But again, I still like those bands and listen to their music.

Zeppelin was a dead end? Really? How so? Page took the bluesy/psychedelic rock of Cream and Hendrix to the next level and in the process shaped it, perfected it and helped it to evolve into that classic hard rock sound that influenced so many other bands. Zeppelin's influence on the hard rock genre is really not even debatable. And personally, I prefer Page's style/playing over Eric's and Jimi's.

And as for the Beatles...how do Lennon and Harrison stack up as rock guitar players compared to the likes of Page or Taylor? Page/Taylor (or even Slash) could play circles around either one of those guys.

Edited December 21, 2015 by foghat43

[Free Bird]

We simply disagree

Yeah, cause you're simply wrong.

No. Just because you state your opinion as a fact. Go on dude

[Rovim]

Zeppelin was a dead end? Really? How so? Page took the bluesy/psychedelic rock of Cream and Hendrix to the next level and in the process shaped it, perfected it and helped it to evolve into that classic hard rock sound that influenced so many other bands. Zeppelin's influence on the hard rock genre is really not even debatable. And personally, I prefer Page's style/playing over Eric's and Jimi's.

First of all, you can't take perfection "to the next level" And even if that was possible, Page is really not the man to do it. He is exceptionally great though. I love his guitar playing and his production. Secondly: Zeppelin led to metal kinda. Something is missing from their music. It leans more towards metal. Boneheaded. I still like it, but let's just say a band like The Stones had it in spades for example. The Experience as well. It's groove, it's not larping, it's the drummer but I love his playing anyway, but Led Zep just feels wrong. Like crucial elements of rock n' roll were sacrificed for heavier music or sterile in a way with bunches of horseshit about greek gods and bullshit.

Just my opinion. Just like I think Page, as great as he is, was never as good as Jimi. Never ever. And Clapton? dude got his shit shut down on stage and went backstage to have a smoke. Jimi probably didn't even break a sweat while doing it too.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Rovim

[foghat43]

Zeppelin was a dead end? Really? How so? Page took the bluesy/psychedelic rock of Cream and Hendrix to the next level and in the process shaped it, perfected it and helped it to evolve into that classic hard rock sound that influenced so many other bands. Zeppelin's influence on the hard rock genre is really not even debatable. And personally, I prefer Page's style/playing over Eric's and Jimi's.

First of all, you can't take perfection "to the next level" And even if that was possible, Page is really not the man to do it.

But this assumes (wrongly) that a blues/psychedelic power trio was the perfect hard rock prototype. It wasn't. It was just one more link in the evolutionary chain from Robert Johnson to John Mayall's Bluebreakers to Cream/Hendrix to Zeppelin. It was possible to improve upon that blues/psychedelic power trio model. And history shows that Page was indeed the man who did improve upon it and took it to the next level. Perhaps it was GnR who finally perfected it...the last link in the chain...GnR being the one great last gasp of breath for hard rock before the genre died for good.

Edited December 21, 2015 by foghat43

[Rovim]

But this assumes (wrongly) that a blues/psychedelic power trio was the perfect hard rock prototype. It wasn't. It was just one more link in the evolutionary chain from Robert Johnson to John Mayall's Bluebreakers to Cream/Hendrix to Zeppelin. It was possible to improve upon that blues/psychedelic power trio model. And history shows that Page was indeed the man who did improve upon it and took it to the next level. Perhaps it was GnR who finally perfected it...the last link in the chain...GnR being the one great last gasp of breath for hard rock before the genre died for good.

That's preposterous. One more link? so just because they were 3 people it's not a perfect hard rock band? history shows no such thing. It shows Page being fucked up on smack, coming up with great riffs and solos. His guitar ideas, arrangements, and production are stellar. Zeppelin's music though? I love it, but it contains a lot of bullshit and not enough elements I personally enjoy in hard rock groups.

I come to the same conclusion: for me, The Experience were the best hard rock band ever.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Rovim

[foghat43]

But this assumes (wrongly) that a blues/psychedelic power trio was the perfect hard rock prototype. It wasn't. It was just one more link in the evolutionary chain from Robert Johnson to John Mayall's Bluebreakers to Cream/Hendrix to Zeppelin. It was possible to improve upon that blues/psychedelic power trio model. And history shows that Page was indeed the man who did improve upon it and took it to the next level. Perhaps it was GnR who finally perfected it...the last link in the chain...GnR being the one great last gasp of breath for hard rock before the genre died for good.

That's preposterous. One more link? so just because they were 3 people it's not a perfect hard rock band? history shows no such thing. It shows Page being fucked up on smack, coming up with great riffs and solos. His guitar ideas, arrangements, and production are stellar. Zeppelin's music though? I love it, but it contains a lot of bullshit and not enough elements I personally enjoy in hard rock groups.

I come to the same conclusion: for me, The Experience were the best hard rock band ever.

Fair enough...you are entitled to your opinion and conclusions. Mine are just different.

[foghat43]

But this assumes (wrongly) that a blues/psychedelic power trio was the perfect hard rock prototype. It wasn't. It was just one more link in the evolutionary chain from Robert Johnson to John Mayall's Bluebreakers to Cream/Hendrix to Zeppelin. It was possible to improve upon that blues/psychedelic power trio model. And history shows that Page was indeed the man who did improve upon it and took it to the next level. Perhaps it was GnR who finally perfected it...the last link in the chain...GnR being the one great last gasp of breath for hard rock before the genre died for good.

That's preposterous. One more link? so just because they were 3 people it's not a perfect hard rock band? history shows no such thing. It shows Page being fucked up on smack, coming up with great riffs and solos. His guitar ideas, arrangements, and production are stellar. Zeppelin's music though? I love it, but it contains a lot of bullshit and not enough elements I personally enjoy in hard rock groups.

I come to the same conclusion: for me, The Experience were the best hard rock band ever.

Actually if you study the history of hard rock music it doesn't end with the death of Jimi...it continues to evolve and flourish...and Page was the next chapter.

[Rovim]

Actually if you study the history of hard rock music it doesn't end with the death of Jimi...it continues to evolve and flourish...and Page was the next chapter.

I need to brush up on it for sure. Are you sure it didn't end with the death of Jimi though? nevermind, I trust you.

[foghat43]

Actually if you study the history of hard rock music it doesn't end with the death of Jimi...it continues to evolve and flourish...and Page was the next chapter.

I need to brush up on it for sure. Are you sure it didn't end with the death of Jimi though? nevermind, I trust you.

Yes, you definitely could use a refresher course. It didn't end with the death of Bonham either. But perhaps the firing of Adler was the beginning of the end...