Axl and the lack of new material

[coolranchdressing!]

ugh...what a wet blanket some of you are!! Just relish the fact that they're together and rocking our worlds!

Let's face it...they were a spark of light/miracle back in the late 80s/early 90s and we should be grateful they re-united and are on tour. Even if they did put out music it wouldn't measure up to what was put out b/c we are TOO critical (especially the forum members!). Look at any other rock/band out there...the intial albums are awsome and then it fizzles (i.e. Metallica, U2, etc). Part of the fizzle is because fans have HIGH expectations and part of it is the creativity is not as powerful as it once was.

I can't stand the debbie downers. Live in the moment!

[wasted]

17 hours ago, Rovim said:

They were not as insecure and precious about their music or as difficult and deranged as Axl. It's also about control, being petty, egotistical, pretentious, and misguided but with good intentions and understandable circumstances. At least he was honest throughout it and kept his integrity.

In a way GNR were the Sex Pistols of the 90s. One big album then a huge blow out and gone. People say Kurt's success is based on his death. Well maybe GNR became more of a big deal because they broke up. Instinctively they might have known, they were struggling to find a direction to go in the mid 90s.

The fact that UYI is 4 records does really help. There's really a lot of great tracks that don't get much attention outside forums. The Garden, Breakdown, Pretty Tied Up, Locomotive, Don't Damn Me, You Ain't the First, Bad Obsession, Perfect Crime, 14 Years, Dust N Bones. 

They could have put out 3-4 cds in the 90s combining UYI and Spag Incident material. 

GNR having been selling Budweiser since the AFD inside cover. Really that ad was the first viral clue to the partial reunion. Bud is coming back, get you pvc pants ready. 

[lightBLASTER]

Slash is really doing 6 months of conspirators shows next year? That kind of sucks, I figured they'd be full bore on Guns again. Thinking a new album might just be a pipe dream.

[DieselDaisy]

14 hours ago, coolranchdressing! said:

ugh...what a wet blanket some of you are!! Just relish the fact that they're together and rocking our worlds!

Let's face it...they were a spark of light/miracle back in the late 80s/early 90s and we should be grateful they re-united and are on tour. Even if they did put out music it wouldn't measure up to what was put out b/c we are TOO critical (especially the forum members!). Look at any other rock/band out there...the intial albums are awsome and then it fizzles (i.e. Metallica, U2, etc). Part of the fizzle is because fans have HIGH expectations and part of it is the creativity is not as powerful as it once was.

I can't stand the debbie downers. Live in the moment!

Conversely there are enough examples of elder statesmen who do have late (studio) renaissances often after years in the wildness or of having released incalculable 'shoddy' releases: Time Out of Mind (Bob Dylan); Black Ice (AC/DC); The Rising (Bruce Springsteen); Ragged Glory (Neil Young); American Recordings (Johnny Cash), etc. Some would argue Death Magnetic was a dogs dinner of a production short of a comeback.

What you wrote is such a cop-out. It is like admitting defeat - 'I can never put out stuff as good as the old stuff so I'm not even going to bother'' It is rather like something Chris Pitman would write.

Edited May 12, 2016 by DieselDaisy

[wasted]

15 hours ago, life_247 said:

It depends on the release window - unfortunatly this type of thing has likely been missed. An album called "Not in this Lifetime" should of been mostly written last year, recorded by like Feb/March 16 and be polished up by now in the gap. However its very un-like Axl to rush into recorded material.

But that type of record you could of had a few Axl epics, a few CD era songs redone by the current line up, anything Slash n Duff had knocking around and maybe 1 or 2 fresh numbers cooked up. Get a nice collection of 15 - 18 songs and put them together and pick the best 12. That could of been put out for the tour but then I suppose if they all feel its not up to standard its best to go hammer and tongs at an album over the next year or so and then do a 2nd tour with that to promote.

Maybe Slash is going to get the album to where he thinks it needs to be musically and then give it to Axl to do vocals and fuck with for 6-8months while he goes off and does the SMKC thing.

I do wonder if Slash and Duff would come and see what they like of the CD era material. Are Frank and Richard's parts laid down with even some Stinson and leads down with vocals. So all rhat needs to happen is Duff re-record Stinson and Slash does the leads. Not unlike what we've seen with Chi dem, Better and TIL live. So what they have is really just demos. 

The main thing is will Axl write new lyrics or do new vocals. The project does get bigger the more you think about it. It's like they do need to go into a studio to record with this line up. 

Or do they really see Guns as that 87-93 run and they are happy to just be playing together and celebrate what they achieved with the fans?

also another unrelated point is how much Izzy wrote on UYI. CD was pieced together from Tobias, Bucket, Robin, Stinson, Pitman and Axl songs. Where are the songs for the next one going come from, or who more specifically?

Axl, Duff and Slash?

 

that album looks something like this:

Garden of Eden

Back Off Bitch

Don't Damn Me

November Rain

Dead Horse

Coma

Get in the Ring

Shotgun Blues

Civil War

So Fine

Estranged

Locomotive

Breakdown

it's a pretty great album. 

 

 

[Rovim]

48 minutes ago, wasted said:

In a way GNR were the Sex Pistols of the 90s. One big album then a huge blow out and gone. People say Kurt's success is based on his death. Well maybe GNR became more of a big deal because they broke up. Instinctively they might have known, they were struggling to find a direction to go in the mid 90s.

The fact that UYI is 4 records does really help. There's really a lot of great tracks that don't get much attention outside forums. The Garden, Breakdown, Pretty Tied Up, Locomotive, Don't Damn Me, You Ain't the First, Bad Obsession, Perfect Crime, 14 Years, Dust N Bones. 

They could have put out 3-4 cds in the 90s combining UYI and Spag Incident material. 

GNR having been selling Budweiser since the AFD inside cover. Really that ad was the first viral clue to the partial reunion. Bud is coming back, get you pvc pants ready. 

The chaos and fuck ups were a part of the ride, and ironically what makes them interesting now is the last 25 years, at least it adds something extra, like if everything went great it wouldn't be as crazy.

I kinda don't really think Axl wanted to make 5 more Appetites, but he was honest about the living like The Stones comment. Guns is a good thing, what they've done is certainly enough, but together the chemistry was so explosive that even if they can just tour and play deep cuts, I get the feeling a lot of people believe they can release one more album. I feel like that will change the status of the band if it's good at least for the fans cause you kinda get the feeling Axl's last statement with Guns can't end with Chinese when after 25 years Slash and Duff are back. "look we made up, but the actual story ends here". Like in 4 or 5 years fans are gonna be pissed off with no album or plans to release one.

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Conversely there are enough examples of elder statesmen who do have late (studio) renaissances often after years in the wildness or of having released incalculable 'shoddy' releases: Time Out of Mind (Bob Dylan); Black Ice (AC/DC); The Rising (Bruce Springsteen); Ragged Glory (Neil Young); American Recordings (Johnny Cash), etc. Some would argue Death Magnetic was a dogs dinner of a production short of a comeback.

What you wrote is such a cop-out. It is like admitting defeat - 'I can never put out stuff as good as the old stuff so I'm not even going to bother'' It is rather like something Chris Pitman would write.

But I don't feel the comparison is fair cause every band is different. The talent pool is not fully there anymore cause Izzy is not a part of it. I don't think you'll disagree with that, you can't expect Axl, Slash, and Duff to deliver, even when inspired, the same kind of Guns album without him. Not all the elements are there and for that kind of "renaissance", you at least gotta write some fresh material with Izzy as well imo.

Not saying Axl and Slash with Duff are incapable of creating a great album that will be more Guns compared to Chinese, but even if it was a great album without Izzy, it will probably feel less Gn'R in some ways, the tunes that anchor it and give it that rock n' roll thing, The Stones kinda thing Izzy is so great at.

And you can't seriously compare Dylan, Cash, and Neil Young to Guns. All of these musicians don't have much issues with putting out albums (or had) and they are way more talented anyway and don't need anyone else really to put out a good album. At least not like Axl, Duff, and Slash do.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

4 minutes ago, Rovim said:

But I don't feel the comparison is fair cause every band is different. The talent pool is not fully there anymore cause Izzy is not a part of it. I don't think you'll disagree with that, you can't expect Axl, Slash, and Duff to deliver, even when inspired, even the same kind of Guns albums. Not all the elements are there and for that kind of "renaissance", you at least gotta write some fresh material with Izzy as well imo.

Not saying Axl and Slash with Duff are incapable of creating a great album that will be more Guns compared to Chinese, but even if it was a great album without Izzy, it will probably feel less Gn'R in some ways, the tunes that anchor it and give it that rock n' roll thing, The Stones kinda thing Izzy is so great at.

And you can't seriously compare Dylan, Cash, and Neil Young to Guns. All of these musicians don't have much issues with putting out albums and they are way more talented anyway and don't need anyone else really to put out a good album. At least not like Axl, Duff, and Slash do.

So what is your solution? Nostalgia touring ad infinitum?

[Rovim]

43 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

So what is your solution? Nostalgia touring ad infinitum?

10 acres of avocado trees. 5 huge bags full of 100$ bills, and 20 gangster suits and hats.

Give him everything he wants basically. Guns don't need Izzy to make and release another good album but they do need him if they want to make it much better. With 4 to 5 Izzy tunes that have been worked on by Slash and Duff with Axl it will probably be a huge improvement.

My realistic solution is to just work with what they have, but it's a shame Izzy is not a part of this and from the very start of it. But without actually knowing anything, It looks like he wasn't offered to be a part of the partnership, they might want to do it like how it is right now which is unfortunate but I don't believe it will be the same without him. It's not ideal.

I say make an album just the 3 of them if there is no better choice, but it's unrealistic to expect the same result without Izzy in Guns and why even attempt it without him? there is no good reason. That I can think of.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Rovim

[Rovim]

18 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

I don't see how they can push the sound forward with all the old players nor do I see how you can coalesce 3 contradictory visions for a band. 

Like UYI you mean? was that unified? with Izzy they'll have every old writing Guns member, each can contribute a few tunes that can be a part of the album, much like UYI, and maybe some material from the vault.

The point is it doesn't matter Izzy is an old member or who he is, it matters what he can do and only he can write like that for Guns as his ideas were the foundation of many Gn'R classics and his solo albums got a clear Guns vibe to them which is logical.

They'll be stronger with him on board as a band at least when it comes to albums imo. Izzy should be a part of the Gn'R family.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

Stradlin is the songwriting glue.

I do not mind them doing a year or so of a nostalgia jaunt - I mean I'm not exactly ecstatic about it but such is life - however, when it gets to a third year and they are still trotting out the same setlist, then you are basically still in the same scenario as Nugnr were for most of their miserable existence. You would like to think that the thoroughly prolific Slash would not be content with this static scenario but then, he has allowed himself to be, to all intents and purposes, anally raped by Axl and Team Brazil for the money from this reunion so I do not suppose there is much he would argue against.

What a depressingly un-artistic picture!

We could all yearn for a new song played live but you know in your heart it will not happen.

Edited May 12, 2016 by DieselDaisy

[dalsh327]

We know they have material, it's a matter of when and how they put it together, odds are the first new song they do will be on a TV show or in a movie. 

Van Halen did their reunion then worked on their album and toured it. The interest to see them dropped off and the album didn't sell as well as they had hoped. Just something to keep in mind - this tour is doing well, and they're probably going to take it around the world, but it could be another few years before we hear rumblings of new music.

Or we could have a new album in 2 years. 

If it's about people buying their music  - just put a covers EP out of Riff Raff, Sailing, Don't Let It Bring You Down and The Seeker in the studio, plus the Slashified version of Better and see how many people buy it. 

 

 

 

 

[wasted]

1 hour ago, Rovim said:

The chaos and fuck ups were a part of the ride, and ironically what makes them interesting now is the last 25 years, at least it adds something extra, like if everything went great it wouldn't be as crazy.

I kinda don't really think Axl wanted to make 5 more Appetites, but he was honest about the living like The Stones comment. Guns is a good thing, what they've done is certainly enough, but together the chemistry was so explosive that even if they can just tour and play deep cuts, I get the feeling a lot of people believe they can release one more album. I feel like that will change the status of the band if it's good at least for the fans cause you kinda get the feeling Axl's last statement with Guns can't end with Chinese when after 25 years Slash and Duff are back. "look we made up, but the actual story ends here". Like in 4 or 5 years fans are gonna be pissed off with no album or plans to release one.

what Slash and Duff can do is bring back more of the classic sound of GNR. Axl probably has some material. But how that meshes with whatever Slash and Duff write I don't know. 

Do they even feel like they should do the final GNR album without Izzy?

maybe Axl thought it's time to do the nostalgia era. Tour with Slash and Duff, put out a Best of, put out rarities, dvds, movies, docs. 

Axl seemed on the verge of the second half of CD, did Slash coming back nix that or help it along? 

The tour with Slash and Duff is definitely more fun than putting out CD II to a hail of criticism. Axl is now getting less negativity. It was getting too late. 

It will be interesting to see who is in the mix writing wise for the next record. See if it's just CD II played by Slash in parts or like a whole new record. 

 

 

[wasted]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Stradlin is the songwriting glue.

I do not mind them doing a year or so of a nostalgia jaunt - I mean I'm not exactly ecstatic about it but such is life - however, when it gets to a third year and they are still trotting out the same setlist, then you are basically still in the same scenario as Nugnr were for most of their miserable existence. You would like to think that the thoroughly prolific Slash would not be content with this static scenario but then, he has allowed himself to be, to all intents and purposes, anally raped by Axl and Team Brazil for the money from this reunion so I do not suppose there is much he would argue against.

What a depressingly un-artistic picture!

We could all yearn for a new song played live but you know in your heart it will not happen.

Slash will probably go back to his solo project to really put some music out. It's just whether he helps Axl out on CD II. Or they all just see Guns as something to celebrate and enjoy. Do something for the fans. In some ways it feels like an apology to Axl. So maybe they will work hard on Axl's material. In Axl we trust. 

[Apollo]

9 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Conversely there are enough examples of elder statesmen who do have late (studio) renaissances often after years in the wildness or of having released incalculable 'shoddy' releases: Time Out of Mind (Bob Dylan); Black Ice (AC/DC); The Rising (Bruce Springsteen); Ragged Glory (Neil Young); American Recordings (Johnny Cash), etc. Some would argue Death Magnetic was a dogs dinner of a production short of a comeback.

What you wrote is such a cop-out. It is like admitting defeat - 'I can never put out stuff as good as the old stuff so I'm not even going to bother'' It is rather like something Chris Pitman would write.

????????

[Apollo]

On May 11, 2016 at 4:35 AM, life_247 said:

Even when NuGuns was in full swing they didn't tour that much. As in they weren't off playing 9 months of the year - they were a bit start stoppy. I think thats how Axl prefers to tour - go out and do a leg then take a month or so off. Its likely an age thing with the vocals as well - I know Steven Tyler requires Aerosmith to space out their shows for his voice nowadays. Even once in this lifetime has a break of 2-3 months after the first bout of shows (and generally a few days break between shows).

RE Stones - Doom & Gloom had some impact at least in the UK, you still hear it on the radio from time to time. But that was a stand alone single with another greatest hits collection. The problem is I doubt there is much appetite (no pun intended) for a re-hashed greatest hits.

For Guns a new record and worldwide tour will be huge - but unless theres a record already done its going to be too late for this collection of shows. The US summer tour is just over a month or so away? If you were going to do a record you'd want it to come out with the summer tour alongside it. First single around the end of May / Start of June with a second going to radio/Youtube as the tour starts. With Slash spending at least 6 months of 2017 on tour with SMKC Im not sure what else we are going to see from Guns after the tour goes to Europe (which surely it must do - although they will miss the summer season for festivals and mega outdoor shows). Whats the plan after a run of dates in the back end of 2016/early 17? I don't see there being one.

The sad thing is GnR have space in their sets for new material, there are only about 6 or 7 stone cold classics that fans would feel cheated if they didn't play (WTTJ/SCOM/Paradise/Night train/Paitence/November Rain/YCBM) -(Im talking about average punters here) so I think it could make a bigger impact than people like the Stones or Aerosmith or AC/DC putting a new album out. If a new album had come out for this tour and it got some radio play - dropping in a few newbies would of gone down well.

But you've got to remember the music world works in reverse these days - you put out an album to promote a tour not the other way around. This tour has been promoted by the Cochella reunion and the shows around that - good positive reviews on the whole - time for a big summer run. Our best hope is that after this dies down there is an album release to keep the hype going. Best hope Slash, Duff et al are in the studio at the moment!!

Great post. 

[DieselDaisy]

[bigpoop]

On 5/11/2016 at 6:17 AM, DieselDaisy said:

It really is quite unprecedented how minuscule Rose's discography is. He is in his mid '50s now; your Stones, Aerosmiths and 'DCs were on their fifteenth -  twentieth album by then.

Axl was lucky enough to find the perfect group of collaborators. Then when they got successful he decided it was all him and he could just do it on his own. And he couldn't.

[Malcolm Malcolm]

The lukewarm reaction to the (pretty rubbish) new single by the Stone Roses should be a warning about how new material should be approached carefully.

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, bigpoop said:

Axl was lucky enough to find the perfect group of collaborators. Then when they got successful he decided it was all him and he could just do it on his own. And he couldn't.

That's probably what Slash thought, not Axl. Axl said he tried to get Slash to stay, but he refused. Axl didn't want Slash to leave Guns imo. I think Slash wanted Guns to mostly go in the musical direction he thought was right for the band. Axl as well. The whole Snakepit thing was basically about that or mainly about that?

But after he left and Axl had no choice cause he was already too bitter I suppose, yes, I think he wanted to prove he can do it on his own, but even in the Kurt Loader interview he admitted he couldn't make certain kinds of albums without Slash.

It was Slash that left and it was Slash that came back. Maybe they were perfect when they were on the same page musically, but far from perfect when it came to personalities, at least back then.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Rovim

[Babooshka]

30 minutes ago, Malcolm Malcolm said:

The lukewarm reaction to the (pretty rubbish) new single by the Stone Roses should be a warning about how new material should be approached carefully.

I didn't even know they were putting out new stuff!

 

28 minutes ago, Rovim said:

That's probably what Slash thought, not Axl. Axl said he tried to get Slash to stay, but he refused. Axl didn't want Slash to leave Guns imo. I think Slash wanted Guns to mostly go in the musical direction he thought was right for the band. Axl as well. The whole Snakepit thing was basically about that or mainly about that?

But after he left and Axl had no choice cause he was already too bitter I suppose, yes, I think he wanted to prove he can do it on his own, but even in the Kurt Loader interview he admitted he couldn't make certain kinds of albums without Slash.

It was Slash that left and it was Slash that came back. Maybe they were perfect when they were on the same page musically, but far from perfect when it came to personalities, at least back then.

This is very selective.

You're just going to omit Axl leaving the band?

[Rovim]

4 minutes ago, Babooshka said:

I didn't even know they were putting out new stuff!

 

This is very selective.

You're just going to omit Axl leaving the band?

Axl never left Guns.

[Babooshka]

Just now, Rovim said:

Axl never left Guns.

He left the band Rovim. The fact that he could take the name and start afresh doesn't negate that.

But if you're going to take that stance, then to say that Slash left GNR is also incorrect. 

[Rovim]

6 hours ago, Babooshka said:

He left the band Rovim. The fact that he could take the name and start afresh doesn't negate that.

But if you're going to take that stance, then to say that Slash left GNR is also incorrect. 

I'm being objective. Axl never left Guns, Slash did. Axl tried to make a Guns album with different band members. Not saying it's the same band musically, cause the same elements were not there anymore. Cause Slash left. First Izzy left. Finally Duff.

Guns was still the musical vehicle for Axl. How did Axl leave Guns exactly? It's like Fleetwood Mac with the bass player and the drummer. (John McVie and Mick Fleetwood) Totally different band except the rhythm section, totally different sound, but those 2 never left Fleetwood Mac. They soldiered on even though Peter Green fuckin' started it in the first place and gave it it's name. And he called it Fleetwood Mac for this very reason.

If someone left the band, Greeny said he wanted the other band members to still have a career cause he was the most famous one. () If bands were over cause someone left, there would be like 4 or 5 bands left.

Same with Pink Floyd and Roger Waters really. Roger wanted to end it, Gilmour wanted to continue. Gilmour won in court, Pink Floyd released more albums, even though Waters was responsible for a lot of it.

 

Edited May 13, 2016 by Rovim

[Sprite]

2 hours ago, Babooshka said:

He left the band Rovim. The fact that he could take the name and start afresh doesn't negate that.

But if you're going to take that stance, then to say that Slash left GNR is also incorrect. 

Are you speaking in some sort of odd hyperbole? Like "Axl left Guns when he refused to work with X". I don't follow what you mean here. Axl never left Guns N Roses as far as any of us are concerned. 

And Slash did leave GNR in 96?