Wacky World of The Ominous Ninja Izzy Stradlin and NO! Gang

[Tori72]

This is, again, beyond awful and fucked up and I don't bloody believe anyone. Argh! That gives me the creeps!!! Again. 

[Archtop]

I love that Izzy apparently refused to fly with Motly because of Nikki Sixx and his treatment of Angels, there really was no love loss between him and Motley Crew.  It does explain an old Nikki interview where he was asked about GnR joining them on tour and he said something about Izzy being an odd dude who kept himself to himself and travelled with his girlfriend. Haha, now we know! not odd he just didn't like you Nikki. 

[Darkenchantress]

19 minutes ago, Archtop said:

I have participated or been part of some really bad judgement under the influence of drugs, so I would say they is an element of truth in both version of events told in a way that puts them in a better light. There will be massive holes in the story's because I'm sure the real version would be pretty damning and it comes from a drug induced point of view. What I can't believe is the hate shown towards Angela in the comments in that thread, "a lunatic " to quote Steven or how is her bad grammar relevant to the story? It amazes me when you see people defending band members past actions so blindly. 

I have trouble over the time line, if Steven at this point was still in the band and he was fired 1990 ,  Angela says she was living with Andy at this point so she must have dated Izzy much earlier than I supposed. SCOM was made in 1988 she was around then, she was on the plane when he got arrested 1989  but they must have gone their separate ways before he got sober 1991?

I think they did split after the plane incident, when they were opening for the Stones back in 1989, just when Izzy decided to kick drugs.

[Archtop]

4 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

I think they did split after the plane incident, when they were opening for the Stones back in 1989, just when Izzy decided to kick drugs.

So Izzy stopped drugs that early?, I always felt it was after Steven left, because Steven always said it was ironic he was kicked from a band that had bigger drug abusers than him?, just better at keeping there shit together. 

 

[NicDwolfwood]

1 minute ago, Archtop said:

So Izzy stopped drugs that early?, I always felt it was after Steven left, because Steven always said it was ironic he was kicked from a band that had bigger drug abusers than him?, just better at keeping there shit together. 

 

Izzy kicking drugs in 89 had to also do with the fact that he was on probation from the airplance incident. He was subjected to Random piss tests for a year or 2. So it was in his best interest to get clean or risk going to jail for his troubles. 

 

The difference between Steven and the rest was the fact that they were functional junkies. He unfortunately was not. He wasnt able to reel it back in. The others did the junk in large part due to boredom. Steven was more or less self medicating the pain from his childhood. Also he was a drummer. it much easier to be fucked up and play a guitar, than try and keep time on drums. 

[Darkenchantress]

4 minutes ago, Archtop said:

So Izzy stopped drugs that early?, I always felt it was after Steven left, because Steven always said it was ironic he was kicked from a band that had bigger drug abusers than him?, just better at keeping there shit together. 

 

Yeah, after the plane incident he was on probation. He went back to his mom's house in Indiana, I think it was late 1989. That years was also the other "incident" with Vince Neil's wife, so he must have felt he was kinda losing it. 

17 minutes ago, Archtop said:

I love that Izzy apparently refused to fly with Motly because of Nikki Sixx and his treatment of Angels, there really was no love loss between him and Motley Crew.  It does explain an old Nikki interview where he was asked about GnR joining them on tour and he said something about Izzy being an odd dude who kept himself to himself and travelled with his girlfriend. Haha, now we know! not odd he just didn't like you Nikki. 

It must have been funny for him that a couple of days ago he was saying on Twitter he maybe was gonna start a new band and asked who should be in it and a lot of people were saying: Izzy Stradlin. 

I'm not really a fan of Motley but had another opinion of Nikki, I thought he was kinda the nicest of them all (well, compared to Vince everyone is nice) but that incident was not nice at all. 

[Jane M.]

10 minutes ago, Archtop said:

So Izzy stopped drugs that early?, I always felt it was after Steven left, because Steven always said it was ironic he was kicked from a band that had bigger drug abusers than him?, just better at keeping there shit together. 

 

December 15, 1989

[beautifulanddamned]

41 minutes ago, Archtop said:

I have trouble over the time line, if Steven at this point was still in the band and he was fired 1990 ,  Angela says she was living with Andy at this point so she must have dated Izzy much earlier than I supposed. SCOM was made in 1988 she was around then, she was on the plane when he got arrested 1989  but they must have gone their separate ways befor he got sober 1991?

Izzy and Angela started dating in late 1986 or early 1987. They broke up in October 1989. Angela hooked up with Andy almost immediately. Izzy got sober in December 1989. According to Mick Wall, Adler was fired in early 1990 but reinstated after signing a contract where he promised to stop taking drugs. The Farm Aid performance in April of 1990 was Izzy's first sober performance and Adler's last performance. Angela and Andy moved into the house next to Steven's in June of 1990.  Adler was officially fired from the band on July 11th 1990.  Probably not coincidentally. 

[Frey]

13 minutes ago, Archtop said:

So Izzy stopped drugs that early?, I always felt it was after Steven left, because Steven always said it was ironic he was kicked from a band that had bigger drug abusers than him?, just better at keeping there shit together. 

Yes, Izzy stopped taking drugs in 1989 as far as I know.

And well, Steven says a lot of dumb shit that isn't necessarily true. Always has and always will. By the time he was kicked out, Axl and Izzy most definitely weren't bigger drug abusers than him. So that's 2/5ths of the band more or less sober already.

And Slash and Duff at least could keep their shit together and do their job. So another 2/5ths at least functional.

A very different picture from the one Steven likes to paint.

4 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

I'm not really a fan of Motley but had another opinion of Nikki, I thought he was kinda the nicest of them all (well, compared to Vince everyone is nice) but that incident was not nice at all. 

If you think Nikki Sixx is nice, you clearly haven't heard much about him. Nothing about that creep is nice. He is a gross asshole of the highest order and makes the idiots in GNR look like sweet little choire boys by comparison.

 

 

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, beautifulanddamned said:

That's Andy's side.  Questions: Why let Erin wander off if she was asking for drugs and threatening to commit suicide? Why didn't Angela go over to Steven's to check on Erin or at least go with Andy since she was Erin's friend? Where did this friend and neighbor come in? He names her in the book, she's an actress, what's her story? Why didn't Andy call an ambulance instead of calling Angela to call an ambulance. He says because he was busy saving Erin's life but that doesn't make sense.  When the cops arrived, Andy didn't say "Hey, I found her unconscious with her pants down, you might want to talk to Steven since this is his damn house?" No? No one cared? The cops just let him cower in the bathroom? Plot holes all over the damn place.

One thing's for certain- no matter what the story, nobody here comes off well. Nobody. They were all fuck ups and were probably no strangers to drug overdoses.  This includes the police who in that city, in that time period probably saw this shit constantly. Just another day on the job.

Yes, there are things in Andy's story that don't make sense and most likely it wasn't the story they told the cops. Probably, regardless of how Erin ended up OD'ing , they panicked and the delay was due to them trying to figure out what to say in order to cover it up and avoid getting in some serious legal trouble. And it's possible that they had encounters with the police to one extent or the other before. For example, if Andy had a drug related arrest, he'd want to put Angela forward, then maybe she called her friend for help and support, and so on.

1 hour ago, beautifulanddamned said:

 We gotta remember that Axl also had rape charges in his past. What kinds of things did Steven witness Axl doing in the Gardner Street unit? If there had been an investigation and things had ended up in court, none of those guys would have come out alive. They were all mired in shit. 

According to Erin herself, she was sexually, verbally and physically assaulted by Axl.  And it was a fight with Axl that started the whole thing.  Much easier to kick Steven out for being unable to play then to open a can of worms.

Axl said that Erin's family wanted to sue Steven and he talked them out of it. It was in no one's interest (including people not involved in the incident: the rest of the band, the management, the label) to let that thing go to court. Axl had his own reasons of course; I don't think that the old rape charge had anything to do  (that case was closed long ago, Steven was questioned and him changing his story years later wouldn't be enough for it to be reopened), but the DV incidents and what Steven knew about them certainly would be something to worry about.

 

[Darkenchantress]

11 minutes ago, Frey said:

 

If you think Nikki Sixx is nice, you clearly haven't heard much about him. Nothing about that creep is nice. He is a gross asshole of the highest order and makes the idiots in GNR look like sweet little choire boys by comparison.

2

You are right, I know nothing about him it was just an idea I had of him don't even know why. Truth is I never even bothered to read "deeply" about them, just not interested in MC at all. 

Ah I really wanna read Andy's book now! I'm currently waiting for Steven's bio, I kinda imagine what it'll be like but I'm curious anyway.

[beautifulanddamned]

17 minutes ago, Frey said:

If you think Nikki Sixx is nice, you clearly haven't heard much about him. Nothing about that creep is nice. He is a gross asshole of the highest order and makes the idiots in GNR look like sweet little choire boys by comparison.

 

 

All you have to do is read The Dirt to know what disgusting, degenerate assholes they were. The book literally opens with Nikki Sixx and Tommy Lee raping some girl in a closet.  

I don't know how anyone can not hate the members of Motley after reading that book. And yet the book itself is great.  Having the book take the form of alternating oral histories from the band members was genius. It kind of revels in the fact that all of these guys are unreliable narrators. Nikki's The Heroin Diaries is not saved by being a great book written by a horrible person, although Guns and Izzy are mentioned more in that book than in The Dirt. But it's a piece of shit.  Andy's book is okay, but only if you are super into Hanoi Rocks and artsy/gypsy/druggie mumbo jumbo. It's not especially well written.  There's very little about Izzy or Guns, the biggest thing is the Erin thing which is 2 or three pages.  Adler's book is...frustrating. It's hard not to be frustrated with him. Not well written. It is a very good look inside Adler's brain and all that entails, however. You will get some,uh, choice stories about Izzy. 

 

[Darkenchantress]

5 minutes ago, beautifulanddamned said:

All you have to do is read The Dirt to know what disgusting, degenerate assholes they were. The book literally opens with Nikki Sixx and Tommy Lee raping some girl in a closet.  

I don't know how anyone can not hate the members of Motley after reading that book. And yet the book itself is great.  Having the book take the form of alternating oral histories from the band members was genius. It kind of revels in the fact that all of these guys are unreliable narrators. Nikki's The Heroin Diaries is not saved by being a great book written by a horrible person, although Guns and Izzy are mentioned more in that book than in The Dirt. But it's a piece of shit.  Andy's book is okay, but only if you are super into Hanoi Rocks and artsy/gypsy/druggie mumbo jumbo. It's not especially well written.  There's very little about Izzy or Guns, the biggest thing is the Erin thing which is 2 or three pages.  Adler's book is...frustrating. It's hard not to be frustrated with him. Not well written. It is a very good look inside Adler's brain and all that entails, however. You will get some,uh, choice stories about Izzy. 

 

Now I'm afraid. 

I'm noting down all the books you mentioned so thanks! But yeah, I really like Hanoi Rocks and would love to read Andy's.

[Jane M.]

19 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

Now I'm afraid. 

You should?

All these rock stars books are all about the same filthiness and debauchery but with different subjects.

They all make you want to .

[Darkenchantress]

Just now, Jane M. said:

You should?

All these rock stars books are all about the same filthiness and debauchery but with different subjects.

They all make you want to .

I've only read Watch you bleed, which I found to be full of inaccuracies, and Slash's bio which I really enjoyed, even though I was amazed at how good his memory is even with all the drugs while I cannot even remember what I ate yesterday. It's impossible he remembers all those things and dates and names. Just no. 

[Frey]

7 hours ago, Darkenchantress said:

You are right, I know nothing about him it was just an idea I had of him don't even know why. Truth is I never even bothered to read "deeply" about them, just not interested in MC at all. 

Ah I really wanna read Andy's book now! I'm currently waiting for Steven's bio, I kinda imagine what it'll be like but I'm curious anyway.

6 hours ago, beautifulanddamned said:

All you have to do is read The Dirt to know what disgusting, degenerate assholes they were. The book literally opens with Nikki Sixx and Tommy Lee raping some girl in a closet.  

I don't know how anyone can not hate the members of Motley after reading that book. And yet the book itself is great.  Having the book take the form of alternating oral histories from the band members was genius. It kind of revels in the fact that all of these guys are unreliable narrators. Nikki's The Heroin Diaries is not saved by being a great book written by a horrible person, although Guns and Izzy are mentioned more in that book than in The Dirt. But it's a piece of shit.  Andy's book is okay, but only if you are super into Hanoi Rocks and artsy/gypsy/druggie mumbo jumbo. It's not especially well written.  There's very little about Izzy or Guns, the biggest thing is the Erin thing which is 2 or three pages.  Adler's book is...frustrating. It's hard not to be frustrated with him. Not well written. It is a very good look inside Adler's brain and all that entails, however. You will get some,uh, choice stories about Izzy. 

I haven't even read The Dirt (I don't care about MC either, so I could never be bothered to read that book, no matter how well written), but I'm not surprised to hear that. I've heard enough awful stories about Nikki Sixx and the rest of the band to have no difficulty at all imagining all the shit in there.

Honestly, I think Izzy was smart to stay away from Nikki Sixx. If Steven and Slash had been as smart, it might have saved them from snorting drain cleaner (or something) and nearly becoming the next Todd Crew. (I can't be the only one who vaguely remembers Nikki Sixx tricking Steven into snorting some dangerous substance and also leaving Slash to die when he OD'd...)

 

5 hours ago, Darkenchantress said:

I've only read Watch you bleed, which I found to be full of inaccuracies, and Slash's bio which I really enjoyed, even though I was amazed at how good his memory is even with all the drugs while I cannot even remember what I ate yesterday. It's impossible he remembers all those things and dates and names. Just no. 

Slash does say he kept journals through all these years though, so it's at least possible I guess he was able to simply look all that stuff up.

As for books, Duff's book is great. Not a typical rock star book at all and with practically no disgusting or degenerate stuff in it. It's more about his journey to sobriety and I guess you could call it kind of inspirational. I've seen some people call Duff's book boring because it doesn't have any of the rock n roll debauchery in it, but I completely disgaree. I didn't find it boring at all and was impressed by how well written it was (comparatively speaking), since he actually wrote it himself and didn't use a ghost write like Slash did for example.

 

 

[Tori72]

I don't know anyting about Nikki Sixx or the Motley guys in general, never interested me. They sound awful though. But lets not forget that Baz and Axl did similar things, like the duc tape story which is horrible, Axl throwing a woman down the stairs - and rape charges aren't alien to them either.

If Izzy cared about Nikki throwing Angela to a wall, which of course is something to care about, I wonder if he ever talked or commented to Axl on his violence towards Erin. My guess is that Izzy was too fucked up to care about how Erin was treated. But we'll never know.

A comment to @Fourteenbeers and the rule-no-rules discussion going on. To me it's all good.  We are different people coming from totally different backgrounds and all. I don't mind if someone might post something that I wouldnt like (hasn't happend in this thread yet) and I'm sure everyone here can live with it. Most already said that. Let's just stay the way we are. If there ever would be something real offensive or something too political (for me never but that's the board's rules I guess) then we'll sort it out. I mean, Guns n Roses are all about being blunt, about not caring of rules and saying what the fuck they want. I personally can deal with the level of blunt-ness in this jungle, I guess everyone can. I mean we're are pretty nice witches, aren't we?  

Love and Peace, ok? 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

I don't think any of them cared about how women were treated, including Izzy. Vince Neil punched him in the face for pulling his wife's top down and then kicking her in the stomach! Doug Goldstein paid off a waitress to not tell about how a drugged up Slash threw her to the ground! Steven Adler has been to jail for beating up women and so on and so on...

Lets not forget Izzys little gem of wisdom.. "I understand wife beating, I don't condone it but I understand it" and he also wrote terribly misogynistic lyrics as well. So, ALL are as bad as each other in my book. Just because we know more stories about one don't be fooled into thinking the others weren't like that too. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by MillionsOfSpiders

[Darkenchantress]

9 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I don't think any of them cared about how women were treated, including Izzy. Vince Neil punched him in the face for pulling his wife's top down and then kicking her in the stomach! Doug Goldstein paid off a waitress to not tell about how a drugged up Slash threw her to the ground! Steven Adler has been to jail for beating up women and so on and so on...

Lets not forget Izzys little gem of wisdoms from Izzy too.. "I understand wife beating, I don't condone it but I understand it" and he also wrote terribly misogynistic lyrics as well. So, ALL are as bad as each other in my book. Just because we know more stories about one don't be fooled into thinking the others weren't like that too. 

Where does that quote come from? Why would someone say something like that publicly? Cause some things you can blame them on them being young and stupid fucked up assholes but others... Wow, just wow...

[Tori72]

18 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I don't think any of them cared about how women were treated, including Izzy. Vince Neil punched him in the face for pulling his wife's top down and then kicking her in the stomach! Doug Goldstein paid off a waitress to not tell about how a drugged up Slash threw her to the ground! Steven Adler has been to jail for beating up women and so on and so on...

Lets not forget Izzys little gem of wisdom.. "I understand wife beating, I don't condone it but I understand it" and he also wrote terribly misogynistic lyrics as well. So, ALL are as bad as each other in my book. Just because we know more stories about one don't be fooled into thinking the others weren't like that too. 

This. 

[Tori72]

8 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

Where does that quote come from? Why would someone say something like that publicly? Cause some things you can blame them on them being young and stupid fucked up assholes but others... Wow, just wow...

Googled it.... 

 

Quote

By the end of the year, Guns n' Roses will release a new album: four tracks from Live?! Like a Suicide, their 1986 indie EP, and four new acoustic songs, including "I Used to Love Her, but I Had to Kill Her," a track sure to incite controversy. The song is "a joke," says Izzy, who co-wrote it with Slash. "Wife beating's been around for 10 million years or something. I mean, I don't advocate it. I understand it. But I don't treat women any differently than I treat men." Slash is less cavalier, and more irresolute, when grappling with the question of responsibility.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-hard-truth-about-guns-n-roses-19881117

 

 

 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

23 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

Where does that quote come from? Why would someone say something like that publicly? Cause some things you can blame them on them being young and stupid fucked up assholes but others... Wow, just wow...

I can't remember exactly, I'll have a look in a bit when I get in. It's probably not word for word but that was the jist of it. 

Even after all of that, I have read the dirt and the one redeeming thing is I don't think the GnR guys are as bad as them at all. Maybe at first they were and they've done fucked up things for sure that turn my stomach, but the GnR guys seem to  actually be bothered by what they did in the past, (yes, even Axl!)

Not so with MC. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by MillionsOfSpiders

[Frey]

1 hour ago, Tori72 said:

I don't know anyting about Nikki Sixx or the Motley guys in general, never interested me. They sound awful though. But lets not forget that Baz and Axl did similar things, like the duc tape story which is horrible, Axl throwing a woman down the stairs - and rape charges aren't alien to them either.

If Izzy cared about Nikki throwing Angela to a wall, which of course is something to care about, I wonder if he ever talked or commented to Axl on his violence towards Erin. My guess is that Izzy was too fucked up to care about how Erin was treated. But we'll never know.

We don't know if Axl and the rest of the band were involved in the duct tape thing. It might also have been the singer of Pantera and his band members. Or someone else, but these are the most likely candidates.

And Slash certainly didn't care enough to stop Axl's violence towards Erin, despite bing present when this was happening sometimes, so I figure the same is probably true for Izzy.

Also this:

55 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I don't think any of them cared about how women were treated, including Izzy. Vince Neil punched him in the face for pulling his wife's top down and then kicking her in the stomach! Doug Goldstein paid off a waitress to not tell about how a drugged up Slash threw her to the ground! Steven Adler has been to jail for beating up women and so on and so on...

Lets not forget Izzys little gem of wisdom.. "I understand wife beating, I don't condone it but I understand it" and he also wrote terribly misogynistic lyrics as well. So, ALL are as bad as each other in my book. Just because we know more stories about one don't be fooled into thinking the others weren't like that too. 

100% agree. Izzy selling women, his treatment of Vince Neil's wife, the wife beating quote... he certainly wasn't better than Axl, Slash or Steven.

The only one I've never heard an inexcusably horrible story about is Duff. He gets a pass so far (until I hear anything different).

 

29 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I can't remember exactly, I'll have a look in a bit when I get in. It's probably not word for word but that was the jist of it. 

Even after all of that, I have read the dirt and the one redeeming thing is I don't think the GnR guys are as bad as them at all. Maybe at first they were and they've done fucked up things for sure that turn my stomach, but the GnR guys seem to  actually be bothered by what they did in the past, (yes, even Axl!)

Not so with MC. 

I also agree with this. I more or less know all the horrid GNR stories and I know a lot of horrid MC stories and on a scale of awfulness, MC still beats GNR by lengths.

And yeah, all of the guys in GNR have shown some growth and maturity since then, and they all have redeeming and endearing qualities to them, but the same definitely can't be said for Nikki Sixx, Tommy Lee, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tori72]

1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I can't remember exactly, I'll have a look in a bit when I get in. It's probably not word for word but that was the jist of it. 

Even after all of that, I have read the dirt and the one redeeming thing is I don't think the GnR guys are as bad as them at all. Maybe at first they were and they've done fucked up things for sure that turn my stomach, but the GnR guys seem to  actually be bothered by what they did in the past, (yes, even Axl!)

Not so with MC. 

 

34 minutes ago, Frey said:

We don't know if Axl and the rest of the band were involved in the duct tape thing. It might also have been the singer of Pantera and his band members. Or someone else, but these are the most likely candidates.

And Slash certainly didn't care enough to stop Axl's violence towards Erin, despite bing present when this was happening sometimes, so I figure the same is probably true for Izzy.

Also this:

100% agree. Izzy selling women, his treatment of Vince Neil's wife, the wife beating quote... he certainly wasn't better than Axl, Slash or Steven.

The only one I've never heard an inexcusably horrible story about is Duff. He gets a pass so far (until I hear anything different).

 

I also agree with this. I more or less know all the horrid GNR stories and I know a lot of horrid MC stories and on a scale of awfulness, MC still beats GNR by lengths.

And yeah, all of the guys in GNR have shown some growth and maturity since then, and they all have redeeming and endearing qualities to them, but the same definitely can't be said for Nikki Sixx, Tommy Lee, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

All you are saying.

@Frey no matter if Axl was part of the duct tape thing or not, he did fucked up shit, that's what I meant.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

25 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

 

All you are saying.

@Frey no matter if Axl was part of the duct tape thing or not, he did fucked up shit, that's what I meant.

The fact we think it was Axl says it all, doesn't it? Yes, he's done the worst fucked up shit of them all. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by MillionsOfSpiders