Cultural/Political/Social Trends & Divergence Thread

[wasted]

20 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

Laughing at the thought of Taxi Driver being a film about Travis on the internet all day complaining about women he never talks to.

He laid the ground work for a white male genocide. 

[Len Cnut]

3 hours ago, wasted said:

He laid the ground work for a white male genocide. 

Nah man, Travis was a good man, he went for pimps, he didn't go and shoot the birds or the blokes they went with.  Travis was like the NY Guardian Angels. 

[DirtyDeeds]

On 8/13/2018 at 5:05 AM, DieselDaisy said:

My main problem with political correctness is its advocates seem to have had a sense of humour lobotomy. As someone who puts humour above pretty much everything I never get on with politically correct people. 

What many bemoan as political correctness is often times just civility. I can somewhat agree on the humor front, with caveats. I do believe pretty much any subject can be joked about, but context matters, who the joke is on matters, and skill in telling the joke matters. The last two are often forgot. People tell jokes poorly and then are angry when people aren’t laughing or are upset. Joke about anything, but when it’s about an injustice, don’t make the victim the butt of the joke. That’s not about being politically correct or overly sensitive, that’s a basic tenet of comedy. Comedy has historically been an equalizer; it lampoons the powerful and corrupt and exposes their hypocrisy. To use it to strengthen the power they already have is an abuse of comedy. 

[wasted]

3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Nah man, Travis was a good man, he went for pimps, he didn't go and shoot the birds or the blokes they went with.  Travis was like the NY Guardian Angels. 

It got twisted along the way but there’s definitely cultural starting point of glamorizing losers who commit crimes in the name of a good cause. 

I suppose there’s always been incels they just couldn’t all hang out together and start to think they have it all worked out. 

[Len Cnut]

8 minutes ago, wasted said:

It got twisted along the way but there’s definitely cultural starting point of glamorizing losers who commit crimes in the name of a good cause. 

I suppose there’s always been incels they just couldn’t all hang out together and start to think they have it all worked out. 

Also, you didn't admit it back in the day, you either lived completely under the radar or you were known to little kids as 'the creepy old man on the park bench' or 'that weird sort two doors down'. 

[wasted]

23 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

What many bemoan as political correctness is often times just civility. I can somewhat agree on the humor front, with caveats. I do believe pretty much any subject can be joked about, but context matters, who the joke is on matters, and skill in telling the joke matters. The last two are often forgot. People tell jokes poorly and then are angry when people aren’t laughing or are upset. Joke about anything, but when it’s about an injustice, don’t make the victim the butt of the joke. That’s not about being politically correct or overly sensitive, that’s a basic tenet of comedy. Comedy has historically been an equalizer; it lampoons the powerful and corrupt and exposes their hypocrisy. To use it to strengthen the power they already have is an abuse of comedy. 

The point about comedy made by Patrice was that all comedy comes from the same place, trying to be funny. So that was the intent, and comedians need that space to mess up. Like Roseanne was trying to be funny. Sometimes she gets it right, other times...but if all comedians are walking on egg shells then comedy is going to go down the toilet. 

Also if you can’t talk things out you end up getting physical. The silenced side will resort to violence. 

The other thing is limiting speech always seems to be what dictators do. I’m not completely against state power it has it’s upsides. But people start talking about freedom and being PC at the same time. Physical violence is the thing to stop. People being offended is a non starter. In a way protecting people from words is kind of weakening them. You’re basically saying you’re so weak you can’t take being called a name. It breeds victimhood which is a worse fate than being fat. I’m fat but I’m fat because I ate more donuts than everyone else combined. I won fat before I got fat. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by wasted

[Len Cnut]

Quote

The last two are often forgot. People tell jokes poorly and then are angry when people aren’t laughing or are upset. Joke about anything, but when it’s about an injustice, don’t make the victim the butt of the joke. That’s not about being politically correct or overly sensitive, that’s a basic tenet of comedy

Its these sort of dictates that muddy the waters though.  First of all, everybody isn't on the same level of sophistication in terms of interpretation of humour.  And telling a joke poorly is a lesser sin than getting upset at a joke, any joke, because it is in fact a joke and therefore not to be taken seriously.  Call it a crap joke all you like but getting upset about it is a bit...I dunno.

And its not a basic tenet of comedy to not make the victim the butt of a joke, not at all.  In fact, one could conclusively argue that laughter in and of itself is something pretty harsh.  Its related to the way pack animals tend to seperate a weak on from the bunch so as not to weaken the pack.  I'm not arguing for that as the heart and soul of comedy but it has been argued before now.  Look at things like slapstick, in slapstick you laugh directly at the victim.  Why is Fat Lady Falls Down A Hole so funny to so many, whoose being laughed at there if not the victim? 

[wasted]

21 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Also, you didn't admit it back in the day, you either lived completely under the radar or you were known to little kids as 'the creepy old man on the park bench' or 'that weird sort two doors down'. 

It’s like trainspotters are now getting all uppity on the platform. I wonder if Subuteo would have been cool if it was online. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by wasted

[wasted]

21 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Its these sort of dictates that muddy the waters though.  First of all, everybody isn't on the same level of sophistication in terms of interpretation of humour.  And telling a joke poorly is a lesser sin than getting upset at a joke, any joke, because it is in fact a joke and therefore not to be taken seriously.  Call it a crap joke all you like but getting upset about it is a bit...I dunno.

And its not a basic tenet of comedy to not make the victim the butt of a joke, not at all.  In fact, one could conclusively argue that laughter in and of itself is something pretty harsh.  Its related to the way pack animals tend to seperate a weak on from the bunch so as not to weaken the pack.  I'm not arguing for that as the heart and soul of comedy but it has been argued before now.  Look at things like slapstick, in slapstick you laugh directly at the victim.  Why is Fat Lady Falls Down A Hole so funny to so many, whoose being laughed at there if not the victim? 

But you are deemed strong enough to take it so it’s a compliment. You get a victim mentality when people say don’t touch them they are too weak to succeed. They have an excuse. 

I’m not really advocating going round bullying people. But you’re fat, you fell down a hole, it was funny now go do what you do best like eat a waffle over and over and over and over for no reason. No I mean you can solve math problems or do something worthwhile, don’t be defined be being a fatty. I can lose weight you’ll be ugly forever. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by wasted

[killuridols]

5 hours ago, wasted said:

I’m not really advocating going round bullying people. But you’re fat, you fell down a hole, it was funny now go do what you do best like eat a waffle over and over and over and over for no reason.

Would it be funny if it was your fat mother falling down a hole? 

Would it be funny if it was your fat self falling down a hole?

Would it be funny if the fat person falling down a hole ended up dead?

I find a pattern when people laugh at the expense of others and that is the distance (physical and emotional) between the person laughing and the person/object they are laughing at. 

In order to appreciate the humor of certain things being said you need to make an internal exercise of dehumanization. Only when you have dehumanized the other and de-dramatized a situation, you can truly laugh at it.

The problem is not everybody can go through this process at the same time than everybody else and that's when offense occurs. This is not victimization. It should not be in our hands to accelerate the internal processes of someone else.

Using your example of the fat person, I think it is not your or my job to tell someone else when they are ready to accept their reality as a fat person. Because maybe they refuse to recognize themselves as fat, or because they are battling against it and don't want to accept it as a lifelong reality.

[Len Cnut]

12 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Would it be funny if it was your fat mother falling down a hole? 

Would it be funny if it was your fat self falling down a hole?

Would it be funny if the fat person falling down a hole ended up dead?

I find a pattern when people laugh at the expense of others and that is the distance (physical and emotional) between the person laughing and the person/object they are laughing at. 

In order to appreciate the humor of certain things being said you need to make an internal exercise of dehumanization. Only when you have dehumanized the other and de-dramatized a situation, you can truly laugh at it.

The problem is not everybody can go through this process at the same time than everybody else and that's when offense occurs. This is not victimization. It should not be in our hands to accelerate the internal processes of someone else.

Using your example of the fat person, I think it is not your or my job to tell someone else when they are ready to accept their reality as a fat person. Because maybe they refuse to recognize themselves as fat, or because they are battling against it and don't want to accept it as a lifelong reality.

The thing about laughter it is always at something or someones expense, its been referred to before now as the human form of growling, a lot of what is behind laughter psychologically is a sense of superiority.  Its why slapstick is probably the oldest form of comedy out there and perhaps the most universal.  Its why kings and queens had court jesters to act foolish for their amusement.  Like what I was saying earlier about pack animals, we kinda seperate the guy who trips over his shoelaces from ourselves when we all point and laugh as if to say 'we are not the kind of people who trip over our shoelaces'.  And its why we feel embarassed or ashamed or red-faced when we trip or do something 'stupid', even referring to it as something stupid is part of the equation, but anyway we feel embarassed ashamed etc because we're kinda genetically hard-wired into that kind of thinking, that having tripped over our shoelaces or a banana skin that we have something stupid and deserve in a sense, to be laughed at.

[killuridols]

3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Like what I was saying earlier about pack animals, we kinda seperate the guy who trips over his shoelaces from ourselves when we all point and laugh as if to say 'we are not the kind of people who trip over our shoelaces'.  And its why we feel embarassed or ashamed or red-faced when we trip or do something 'stupid', even referring to it as something stupid is part of the equation, but anyway we feel embarassed ashamed etc because we're kinda genetically hard-wired into that kind of thinking, that having tripped over our shoelaces or a banana skin that we have something stupid and deserve in a sense, to be laughed at.

Yes, it's definitely a cultural thing and something learned. You learned to laugh at the person who trips over their shoelaces because either someone taught you or you learned it through media.

That would also explain the differences between British humor, northamerican humor, French humor.... I usually have a hard time finding the humor in British comedy. It is clear that as an Argentine I don't find funny the same things British do, or most of them, it's not that I don't get it at all. And probably our humor doesn't appeal to a lot other people. I even find a difference in age.... like, when I was a kid I would laugh at really silly things or almost everything and now I don't.

Now it is difficult to apply this self-awareness of stupidity when someone is joking about your fatness, your gayness, your cancer..... Why is there a sense of superiority if you are not fat, not gay or don't have cancer? Why are comedians upset that those collectives who have been used for decades as fodder for jokes are now rebelling against and disputing the field of humor?

The status quo is being shaken and obviously, the hegemony hates it. No one wants to change when they had it so easy in the past and now they have to either look for new ways of cracking jokes or quit the business.

[wasted]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Would it be funny if it was your fat mother falling down a hole? 

Would it be funny if it was your fat self falling down a hole?

Would it be funny if the fat person falling down a hole ended up dead?

I find a pattern when people laugh at the expense of others and that is the distance (physical and emotional) between the person laughing and the person/object they are laughing at. 

In order to appreciate the humor of certain things being said you need to make an internal exercise of dehumanization. Only when you have dehumanized the other and de-dramatized a situation, you can truly laugh at it.

The problem is not everybody can go through this process at the same time than everybody else and that's when offense occurs. This is not victimization. It should not be in our hands to accelerate the internal processes of someone else.

Using your example of the fat person, I think it is not your or my job to tell someone else when they are ready to accept their reality as a fat person. Because maybe they refuse to recognize themselves as fat, or because they are battling against it and don't want to accept it as a lifelong reality.

Well I took on the fat example because I’m fat. Well so everyone keeps telling me, but I think their eyes are shrinking. 

But like I said I’m not saying bullying. I actually don’t find fat jokes funny so maybe it was a bad example. 

But there seems at least two categories. A video of me falling down a hole might make someone laugh. I might not know they are laughing at me. So no harm done. Each situation is different and various degrees of real damage. 

Then the other category where I do know. And like I said picking on random strangers isn’t really the done thing. But in a group of lads fat shaming me into eating lettuce is probably a good idea. But I’m just as likely going to find your weakness. 

The dehumanization thing is a bit much. Like those funny videos where someone has an accident, that’s a human thing to me and it’s healthy to laugh at these things because it happens to us all. Like I laugh at fat jokes because I get it I do want to eat that couch. Someone just told me how looking after their senile mum was funny towards the end. The weird things that would happen and they always smelled of urine. At first it was like classic stiff upper lip. But week two of urine smell it became a joke. So it can be coping instead of dehumanization. In the sterile environment of a twitter slagging match sure all the cultural marxism applies. If you’re about to beheaded by ISIS, roll a few 911 virgin jokes out. Nobody is going to ruin your career at this point. 

There’s definitely a time and a place. But overall I don’t think it should be censored or cost you your living. But you are may be deemed a piece of whatever if you are harrassing fat chicks outside waffle houses. And companies may relieve you of your duties if can’t control yourself. 

It’s just common sense really. I just don’t like the vigilante culture. If your a serial offender...but a pass is okay sometimes too. What happened to the pass? 

Ok everyone take a hard 5 and after the break I’ll explain why I’m always right. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by wasted

[wasted]

The main problem is where do you draw the line? Everyone’s different. Some get offended if you offer them a cookie. I’m not a kid! 

It just gets to the point where you can’t saying anything. You literally can’t once you empower victims. It’s like VAR. It still comes down to whether Putin was bribing the VAR officials. Sometimes they use VAR, mainly for SA teams. Then if Croatia score with high foot no one cares about fat jokes. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by wasted

[DieselDaisy]

50 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I usually have a hard time finding the humor in British comedy. It is clear that as an Argentine I don't find funny the same things British do, or most of them, it's not that I don't get it at all.

You don't find a bloke in a dress funny, hairy legs and all? What kind of heathen are you?

[wasted]

49 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Yes, it's definitely a cultural thing and something learned. You learned to laugh at the person who trips over their shoelaces because either someone taught you or you learned it through media.

That would also explain the differences between British humor, northamerican humor, French humor.... I usually have a hard time finding the humor in British comedy. It is clear that as an Argentine I don't find funny the same things British do, or most of them, it's not that I don't get it at all. And probably our humor doesn't appeal to a lot other people. I even find a difference in age.... like, when I was a kid I would laugh at really silly things or almost everything and now I don't.

Now it is difficult to apply this self-awareness of stupidity when someone is joking about your fatness, your gayness, your cancer..... Why is there a sense of superiority if you are not fat, not gay or don't have cancer? Why are comedians upset that those collectives who have been used for decades as fodder for jokes are now rebelling against and disputing the field of humor?

The status quo is being shaken and obviously, the hegemony hates it. No one wants to change when they had it so easy in the past and now they have to either look for new ways of cracking jokes or quit the business.

Funny is funny. When they are on stage it just is or isn’t. Most people can’t make you laugh with cancer jokes, that’s how bad they are at comedy. 

And what I’ve noticed is it’s not real the subject of the joke that is funny. It’s locating what is true but wrong in that situation. It’s these tricks of the brain, that make us laugh. But the uptightness these topics bring might set up the release. Like Jeselnik I don’t laugh as hard as some people. Some are offended. So do we cut everything. Because there’s always one person who is offended or thinks it’s not funny. 

Nice to take the high ground but when you apply it it can’t be one rule. It’s like an infinite number of variables. 

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You don't find a bloke in a dress funny, hairy legs and all? What kind of heathen are you?

Are you local?

[wasted]

7 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Its these sort of dictates that muddy the waters though.  First of all, everybody isn't on the same level of sophistication in terms of interpretation of humour.  And telling a joke poorly is a lesser sin than getting upset at a joke, any joke, because it is in fact a joke and therefore not to be taken seriously.  Call it a crap joke all you like but getting upset about it is a bit...I dunno.

And its not a basic tenet of comedy to not make the victim the butt of a joke, not at all.  In fact, one could conclusively argue that laughter in and of itself is something pretty harsh.  Its related to the way pack animals tend to seperate a weak on from the bunch so as not to weaken the pack.  I'm not arguing for that as the heart and soul of comedy but it has been argued before now.  Look at things like slapstick, in slapstick you laugh directly at the victim.  Why is Fat Lady Falls Down A Hole so funny to so many, whoose being laughed at there if not the victim? 

I think people are laughing because of fear. They don’t want to be fat. So they get triggered. So there’s often a reason people are laughing at you. But it’s also a form of empathy. If you never have tried to ride your BMX over a ramp and ended up in the river, it’s not as funny. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by wasted

[Len Cnut]

19 minutes ago, wasted said:

The main problem is where do you draw the line? Everyone’s different. Some get offended if you offer them a cookie. I’m not a kid! 

It just gets to the point where you can’t saying anything. You literally can’t once you empower victims. It’s like VAR. It still comes down to whether Putin was bribing the VAR officials. Sometimes they use VAR, mainly for SA teams. Then if Croatia score with high foot no one cares about fat jokes. 

Honestly, I’ve never in my real actual day to day life had to deal with someone offended by a joke or a quip or comment I’ve made or something I’ve laughed at.  I feel perhaps like its something that happens only on the internet or we’re told is happening on telly.

[wasted]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

Honestly, I’ve never in my real actual day to day life had to deal with someone offended by a joke or a quip or comment I’ve made or something I’ve laughed at.  I feel perhaps like its something that happens only on the internet or we’re told is happening on telly.

Because they are more public forums, so you can offend more people without really having to find them. It’s really taken the art out of it really. 

[killuridols]

58 minutes ago, wasted said:

Then the other category where I do know. And like I said picking on random strangers isn’t really the done thing. But in a group of lads fat shaming me into eating lettuce is probably a good idea. But I’m just as likely going to find your weakness. 

Yes, the familiarity with others you know they love you in spite of your apparent flaw (being fat) is something that works as a softener of comments and jokes of that kind. You know that beyond the joke and the appearance, they still appreciate the person you are inside.

I was more talking of jokes made by strangers or comedians.

1 hour ago, wasted said:

The dehumanization thing is a bit much. Like those funny videos where someone has an accident, that’s a human thing to me and it’s healthy to laugh at these things because it happens to us all. Like I laugh at fat jokes because I get it I do want to eat that couch. Someone just told me how looking after their senile mum was funny towards the end. The weird things that would happen and they always smelled of urine. At first it was like classic stiff upper lip. But week two of urine smell it became a joke. So it can be coping instead of dehumanization. In the sterile environment of a twitter slagging match sure all the cultural marxism applies. If you’re about to beheaded by ISIS, roll a few 911 virgin jokes out. Nobody is going to ruin your career at this point. 

With dehumanization and de-dramatizing I mean the process by which you are able to laugh at the expense or disgrace of others without feeling guilty or putting too much thought into it.

The example of the senile mum is very good and that's what I was talking about..... each person and their dramas have their own process of accepting it (or not) and coping mechanisms, especially when you have to go through those situations for a long time. Throwing a joke in the middle of that process is a lottery as to how that person will react. It is not the same making jokes at someone who is battling cancer and someone who survived it. The person who survived it had a long time to process the whole thing and maybe by the end of it, they found out they could laugh about it. But if you go joking around someone who's having a hard time with their tumor or their father's tumor or their son's tumor, then you can't ask that person to "relax" and think of it as just as joke, because it is highly likely they will not see any positive or funny thing about it.

If you are able to laugh at your fatness, that means you've come to terms with it and maybe accepting that you will not lose weight anytime soon, so you've decided you're gonna live the fat life and laugh at it. However, it is really hard to tell what moment of the process each person is at and that's when the offenses occur.

1 hour ago, wasted said:

There’s definitely a time and a place. But overall I don’t think it should be censored or cost you your living. But you are may be deemed a piece of whatever if you are harrassing fat chicks outside waffle houses. And companies may relieve you of your duties if can’t control yourself. 

I'm still insecure about the censorship, it really depends on so many variables that it is hard for me to say when I accept it and when I don't.

What I do like about this whole rebellion of the oppressed groups is when they go for more and create their own comedy acts to roast their oppressors

I guess that's way better than having the others censored, because it gives a voice to those who were laughed at and it also broadens the humor spectrum, new characters and characterizations are brought to light, like the category of #boyfriends and #husbands, who can be as annoying as the #girlfriends and the #wives and there are loads of funny stories about them too.

58 minutes ago, wasted said:

The main problem is where do you draw the line? Everyone’s different. Some get offended if you offer them a cookie. I’m not a kid! 

It just gets to the point where you can’t saying anything.

That mantra of "you can't say anything anymore" is getting old and boring.... how about thinking of NEW JOKES, huh?
You draw the line where your personal values dictate you. But, if you offend others and they tell you, at least have the balls to face them and if you have bigger balls, stand up for your comedy or your jokes.

Complaining like a whiny brat will not get you anywhere. Complaining before you get to offend someone is knowing that you are about to be a dick and it will have consequences.

Well, if you know it will have consequences, face them. Don't chicken out.

58 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You don't find a bloke in a dress funny, hairy legs and all? What kind of heathen are you?

Why are you calling me heathen? I don't know what you mean by that....

The way you are describing it.... no, I don't particularly find a man in a dress funny
(if by funny you mean amusing, comical and not strange or rare)

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Honestly, I’ve never in my real actual day to day life had to deal with someone offended by a joke or a quip or comment I’ve made or something I’ve laughed at.  I feel perhaps like its something that happens only on the internet or we’re told is happening on telly.

Just because they have not told you they got offended it doesn't mean they were not offended. Sometimes it is hard to tell someone that they have offended you. It is a combination of fear and shame, which is basically what the other imposes over you when they point out your "flaws". Because as soon as you get offended and you are upset, they tell you you either don't have a sense of humor, or you are taking yourself too seriously or that you are not relaxing. All of them ways to get rid of the blame and throw the problem to the person who is already handling your darts.

 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Why are you calling me heathen? I don't know what you mean by that....

The way you are describing it.... no, I don't particularly find a man in a dress funny
(if by funny you mean amusing, comical and not strange or rare)

I don't suppose it is even worth mentioning Mrs Slocombe's Pussy?

[killuridols]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

I don't suppose it is even worth mentioning Mrs Slocombe's Pussy?

I don't know who that is, I'm sorry

It'd help a lot if you would bear in mind some aspects of my demographics.

But if you say there's a man with hairy legs wearing a dress, I really do not find anything particularly funny about it because I need more context.

My mind is full of men wearing dresses and I don't know which one you want me to find funny:

1) Freddy Mercury in the video of 'I want to break free'

2) Dustin Hoffman in Tootsie

3) Robin Williams in Mrs Doubtfire

4) Kurt Cobain in the video of Bloom (or the other shows where he wore a dress)

5) Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner

6) Conchita Wurst winning Eurovision 2014

Help me out....

[wasted]

6 hours ago, killuridols said:

Yes, the familiarity with others you know they love you in spite of your apparent flaw (being fat) is something that works as a softener of comments and jokes of that kind. You know that beyond the joke and the appearance, they still appreciate the person you are inside.

I was more talking of jokes made by strangers or comedians.

With dehumanization and de-dramatizing I mean the process by which you are able to laugh at the expense or disgrace of others without feeling guilty or putting too much thought into it.

The example of the senile mum is very good and that's what I was talking about..... each person and their dramas have their own process of accepting it (or not) and coping mechanisms, especially when you have to go through those situations for a long time. Throwing a joke in the middle of that process is a lottery as to how that person will react. It is not the same making jokes at someone who is battling cancer and someone who survived it. The person who survived it had a long time to process the whole thing and maybe by the end of it, they found out they could laugh about it. But if you go joking around someone who's having a hard time with their tumor or their father's tumor or their son's tumor, then you can't ask that person to "relax" and think of it as just as joke, because it is highly likely they will not see any positive or funny thing about it.

If you are able to laugh at your fatness, that means you've come to terms with it and maybe accepting that you will not lose weight anytime soon, so you've decided you're gonna live the fat life and laugh at it. However, it is really hard to tell what moment of the process each person is at and that's when the offenses occur.

I'm still insecure about the censorship, it really depends on so many variables that it is hard for me to say when I accept it and when I don't.

What I do like about this whole rebellion of the oppressed groups is when they go for more and create their own comedy acts to roast their oppressors

I guess that's way better than having the others censored, because it gives a voice to those who were laughed at and it also broadens the humor spectrum, new characters and characterizations are brought to light, like the category of #boyfriends and #husbands, who can be as annoying as the #girlfriends and the #wives and there are loads of funny stories about them too.

That mantra of "you can't say anything anymore" is getting old and boring.... how about thinking of NEW JOKES, huh?
You draw the line where your personal values dictate you. But, if you offend others and they tell you, at least have the balls to face them and if you have bigger balls, stand up for your comedy or your jokes.

Complaining like a whiny brat will not get you anywhere. Complaining before you get to offend someone is knowing that you are about to be a dick and it will have consequences.

Well, if you know it will have consequences, face them. Don't chicken out.

Why are you calling me heathen? I don't know what you mean by that....

The way you are describing it.... no, I don't particularly find a man in a dress funny
(if by funny you mean amusing, comical and not strange or rare)

Just because they have not told you they got offended it doesn't mean they were not offended. Sometimes it is hard to tell someone that they have offended you. It is a combination of fear and shame, which is basically what the other imposes over you when they point out your "flaws". Because as soon as you get offended and you are upset, they tell you you either don't have a sense of humor, or you are taking yourself too seriously or that you are not relaxing. All of them ways to get rid of the blame and throw the problem to the person who is already handling your darts.

 

I think point about knowing people is more I am affected by people face to face. But if someone takes something I did or said and makes fun of it out of my sight then it doesn’t hurt anyone. There’s a lot of micro to macro stuff going on. Like someone said I’m not sure I’ve ever witnessed someone make a bad joke in public, but the internet has brought up new situations to get offended in. 

I think the main point across that is the idea that a joke is offensive. You are saying cancel anything that might be. Common sense dictates the obvious ones at first, but then it grows from there. Even new jokes offend someone somewhere. And the idea that jokes are or can be made under some unbrella of self censorship isn’t reslistic. People just say things. We’re really talking about afterwards deciding what is funny. Comedians face an audience and that’s the judge. Funny is often found in the wrong truth. Day to day comments can just be bigoted and probably aren’t funny and there was no need for it. But it helps to have things out in the open to discuss or work through, like you say the victim can make a joke back. But often there’s this judgment in return which makes the victim become the oppressor. They want to ruin that person or they want to enforce tolerance when there’s valid reasons for intolerance. There’s a sort of cartoon depiction of victims and oppressors, the burden of history assigned to one person. So one joke then becomes the reason for slavery. This backwards appraisal is often not historically accurate. It’s an easy to way to feelgood and a joke is the wrong target. There are real issues to address. Jokes or free speech help you sift through all that. If every issue is reduced to buzzwords that can be shutdown, then that in itself is the real oppression or at least another form. 

I think there’s an assumption here that a joke about say cancer is an attack on the victim of the affliction which I’m not sure is the case. The joke comes often from some shared mass delusion. Like  there was a joke about a boy who had a bad report card and when he took it home to his mum she had just died, his first reaction was thank god she will never know I flunked spanish. What happens is people get up in arms about how can you make a joke about a dead mother. But people laugh because it’s a surprise truth that you do and can say or think things that aren’t really the done thing. The joke really about how serious we take things that might not matter. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by wasted

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, wasted said:

I think the main point across that is the idea that a joke is offensive. You are saying cancel anything that might be. Common sense dictates the obvious ones at first, but then it grows from there. Even new jokes offend someone somewhere. And the idea that jokes are or can be made under some unbrella of self censorship isn’t reslistic. People just say things

Not all jokes are offensive, some are to some people. I don't think there is a general feeling that all jokes are offensive.

And no, people don't just say things. Comedians create and study their comedy acts very well, they know what they are saying. Maybe some old dude cannot help mumbling the 'f*g' word when he sees a gay man, but that generation of dinosaurs is on its way to extinction. Resisting to adjust to the new dynamics is useless when the waves are getting so high.

1 hour ago, wasted said:

Day to day comments can just be bigoted and probably aren’t funny and there was no need for it. But it helps to have things out in the open to discuss or work through, like you say the victim can make a joke back. But often there’s this judgment in return which makes the victim become the oppressor. They want to ruin that person or they want to enforce tolerance when there’s valid reasons for intolerance.

Excuse me? Valid reasons for intolerance? WTF are you talking about, please explain because it sounds really bad.

Bigoted comments are not needed anymore. There's a whole new generation growing up in diversity, tolerance, acceptance of a different other and they will not be making those comments anymore. You don't need to keep slavery around to be able to talk about it or discuss it. Every discussion can emerge from history without a need to relive it every time.

No one wants to ruin anyone, some people just ruin themselves when they refuse to acknowledge that times are changing and that there is no place for discrimination, racism, sexism and other nocive -isms.

The victim cannot become an oppressor when all they are doing is leveling up their strength. Not on the ground anymore, it is a one-on-one battle now. Horizontal and equal. 

1 hour ago, wasted said:

I think there’s an assumption here that a joke about say cancer is an attack on the victim of the affliction which I’m not sure is the case. The joke comes often from some shared mass delusion. Like  there was a joke about a boy who had a bad report card and when he took it home to his mum she had just died, his first reaction was thank god she will never know I flunked spanish. What happens is people get up in arms about how can you make a joke about a dead mother.

It always depends on the joke... Like someone said before, humor is art and the way you tell jokes or funny stories is what differentiates a good comedian from a mediocre or bad one. Mastering tone, wit, voice and physical expression is essential to whoever wants to be a comedian.

That joke about the boy with a bad report is good because there is no malice on it. A boy reacts like any child worried about failing to their mother, even when a tragedy just happened.

It would be no joke and no humor if he had thought 'thank god that bitch will finally leave me alone' instead.

[wasted]

43 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Not all jokes are offensive, some are to some people. I don't think there is a general feeling that all jokes are offensive.

And no, people don't just say things. Comedians create and study their comedy acts very well, they know what they are saying. Maybe some old dude cannot help mumbling the 'f*g' word when he sees a gay man, but that generation of dinosaurs is on its way to extinction. Resisting to adjust to the new dynamics is useless when the waves are getting so high.

Excuse me? Valid reasons for intolerance? WTF are you talking about, please explain because it sounds really bad.

Bigoted comments are not needed anymore. There's a whole new generation growing up in diversity, tolerance, acceptance of a different other and they will not be making those comments anymore. You don't need to keep slavery around to be able to talk about it or discuss it. Every discussion can emerge from history without a need to relive it every time.

No one wants to ruin anyone, some people just ruin themselves when they refuse to acknowledge that times are changing and that there is no place for discrimination, racism, sexism and other nocive -isms.

The victim cannot become an oppressor when all they are doing is leveling up their strength. Not on the ground anymore, it is a one-on-one battle now. Horizontal and equal. 

It always depends on the joke... Like someone said before, humor is art and the way you tell jokes or funny stories is what differentiates a good comedian from a mediocre or bad one. Mastering tone, wit, voice and physical expression is essential to whoever wants to be a comedian.

That joke about the boy with a bad report is good because there is no malice on it. A boy reacts like any child worried about failing to their mother, even when a tragedy just happened.

It would be no joke and no humor if he had thought 'thank god that bitch will finally leave me alone' instead.

But you have to have freedom of speech to do the test of what’s funny. Comedians road test their stuff. We as a culture develop theough trial an error a lot. 

Just establishing some jokes do offend, it’s just what to do about it. 

We are intolerate of murder. Sometimes fat shaming helps me lose weight. Intolerance isn’t always negative. 

What I was saying was only 1% of white men were responsible for slavery. To dump all of that on a comedian who used the N word at a show is too much. Like Roseanne isn’t even racist but she pays for slavery. This to me a political thing. 

I don’t think it’s always equal. Roseanne made a mistake and offended someone. They were offended. She lost her entire career.