Cultural/Political/Social Trends & Divergence Thread

[Len Cnut]

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Maybe she is better now.

I'm not a big fan but I appreciate some of her stuff. I like what she posts on her Instagram, lol....

My overriding feeling listening to this is 'girl, what in the fuck are you talkin' about?'  

[killuridols]

9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

My overriding feeling listening to this is 'girl, what in the fuck are you talkin' about?'  

[soon]

On August 9, 2018 at 5:10 PM, killuridols said:

Oh no, please! You misunderstood, lol .... I meant that this whole thing is overwhelming but not because you posted lots of links, just because the subject is complicated, I can't figure out where it is coming from and that bothers me

Maybe in order to understand this we have to connect the "signs of times"... It seems like many of these guys were "raised" in the 4-Chan, Reddit communities (and probably video games communities) where this kind of information circulates among young boys.

That kind of shit didn't exist in my time, lol, I remember we read some mags, though but they didn't have the impact these social networks have.... besides you can interact with people on real-time, everyday, the bondage is formed, some sort of camaraderie with strangers, which is the basis of the Internet.

And then there's the new wave of feminism, to which the Incel thing seems to be some sort of backlash, probably because when you grow up among computers and video games, you lose all life perspective and at an age where you are supposed to be learning how to interact with others in real life, you are just playing games and talking to others through a microphone and monitor

Social skills are learned in real life, so I guess we are now attending to the consequences of having kids raised with video games and social media..... lunatics who freak out because they don't know how to start relationships with people in the real world.

The guy in the video is initially physically attractive but there's something about him that puts me off..... I dont know if it is that nervous smoking or just knowing what he does....... Looks are not everything in order to attract other people. If only good-looking ones were meant to get laid, come on.... this world wouldn't be so populated ..... the problem is the way people are raised, it begins at home, the role models they get to follow and education too.

It seems that the male supremacy groups that are looking for followers are also to blame, as they indoctrinate these virgins into hating women, which is easy because they are already weak and enraged. The other problem is that subcultures are not bad per se, except when all they are seeking is murder, damage, hurting people.... that's fucked up...... so I am having a hard time understanding the connection between a frustrated virgin person and this same person turning into a criminal because of it.

Oh!  I misunderstood your face palm emoji!! lol! So I take back what I said about my brain. My brain is excellent 

That makes a lot of sense about "sign of the times" (not sure if that was an intentional reference to Christian scripture?) and I think what you lay out as 'the times' really goes a long way in explaining how the culture works. Where many of us were kids who raised one another as our parents were increasingly busy outside of the home and also coaxed by capitalist interests into more and more self indulgence's, todays kids raise each other via online communications. And not primarily having actual conversations but communicating within the prompts of curated worlds, games and game-ified social forums. Algorithms and influencers push people into a limited set of online moulds to the advantage and convenience of those purchasing the trend data. And one consequence, as you say, is that social skills are learned irl leaving many physically isolated youngsters in a bad place. And perhaps since digitized-life is a brand new experiment with very little restraint in light of the many unknown possible negative impacts on humanity, there could be any number of triggers and conditioning happening to create incel culture that we dont know exactly how to measure or identify yet?

Your last point about organized male supremacy is something Ive been wondering too, but it seems so bonkers. Im also having a hard time making the connection between frustrated virgin and criminality. On an individual basis, I could see some people going mad and violent over sexuality. But the idea that an entire culture of people can be instigated is just something that I cant get settled with and say 'okay so heres how that looks, I get it.' Which is strange because I understand how white supremacists do the very same thing where they find disenfranchised people and indoctrinate them. Just, that in the case of incels they want women so badly that they will kill them? Whereas other supremacy ideologies want to push other people away. And the looney "Incel Rebellion" means a suicide of humanity - it means Incels own demise. Is there no myth of a victorious and better future like there is in other hate ideologies? 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by soon

[killuridols]

On 11/8/2018 at 4:31 PM, soon said:

And perhaps since digitized-life is a brand new experiment with very little restraint in light of the many unknown possible negative impacts on humanity, there could be any number of triggers and conditioning happening to create incel culture that we dont know exactly how to measure or identify yet?

Yes, totally.

I don't know if it's me not being a teen anymore or being completely out of the system but I have not found a logical explanation to the Incel stuff yet, aside from linking it to the rise of the new feminism and the increase of subcultures that are born somewhere on the WWW, where I have no access.

I guess it was Len who mentioned before the compartimentalized (sp?) life, which is another phenomenon that is sort of new (or not so much) but it is something that I've already heard because the Internet is soooo big now, not like when I started using it, only forums and some websites were available. Now there are communities of almost anything and people are starting to withdraw with a few peers into groups that no one else have access to.... there will come a time when we wont have what to talk about to new people we meet because its  like everybody has got their own group of interests and these interests are not massive, so unless you're in, there's no chance you will have something in common with someone else.

On 11/8/2018 at 4:31 PM, soon said:

Which is strange because I understand how white supremacists do the very same thing where they find disenfranchised people and indoctrinate them. Just, that in the case of incels they want women so badly that they will kill them? Whereas other supremacy ideologies want to push other people away. And the looney "Incel Rebellion" means a suicide of humanity - it means Incels own demise. Is there no myth of a victorious and better future like there is in other hate ideologies? 

I have no answers for that either.... I really don't know what Incels want because it is contradictory what they do.... virginity is mostly a temporary state of a person but when you talk about it as "involuntary", it stops making sense... it's fatalistic to label yourself like that, it is accepting that you wont ever have it but no one is telling them that it doesn't happen because of themselves, not because of the women!

Fuckin' ridiculous... I wouldn't have a problem with it if it wasn't that they've gone lunatics and as a result, we have to deal with them being a disgrace and a danger to women. Not only women have to worry about rapists, now have to worry about the Incels.... JFC, leave us the fuck alone!

 

[Dazey]

On 10/08/2018 at 4:04 PM, Len Cnut said:

Liking it don't make it good, I like Hermans Hermits, alls it means is I have bad taste

No Milk Today is an amazing tune!!!!

[username]

On 27-3-2018 at 8:41 AM, Graeme said:

About 90% of the time, political correctness can be defined as "not being a cunt to other people". 

While I do agree with that, the counterargument can be defined as "not being an oversensitive pussy about everything".

Those are the 2 ends of the spectrum. Lately I feel the balace between the two is getting a bit distorted. 

[Padme]

53 minutes ago, username said:

While I do agree with that, the counterargument can be defined as "not being an oversensitive pussy about everything".

Those are the 2 ends of the spectrum. Lately I feel the balace between the two is getting a bit distorted. 

Being oversensitive about everything happens because being a cunt to other people happens. An action generates a reaction

[username]

44 minutes ago, Padme said:

Being oversensitive about everything happens because being a cunt to other people happens. An action generates a reaction

Sometimes yes. Sometimes it's the other way around. Both can be the action as well as the reaction. Both only polarize the discussion further. 

But I don't believe someone is right just because they're offended. Sometimes you're right to be, sometimes you should just move on with your life. I do think being offended is a trend in society these days because it allows people to play the victim. 

[Len Cnut]

3 hours ago, Dazey said:

No Milk Today is an amazing tune!!!!

Years ago I used to get slaughtered on here for saying i liked Hermans Hermits  

[Len Cnut]

2 hours ago, username said:

While I do agree with that, the counterargument can be defined as "not being an oversensitive pussy about everything".

Those are the 2 ends of the spectrum. Lately I feel the balace between the two is getting a bit distorted. 

The problem with the anti-political correctness brigade is the more dickheads that take up for it the less people appreciate that its actually a valid point.  Graeme is right, political correctness, to a certain point, is kinda necessary.  To not be anti-semetic in modern day Germany is, strictly speaking, a form of political correctness.  Not calling a black man a nig nog in the street is, strictly speaking, political correctness. 

Political correctness is a problem when it becomes a subtle form of cultural fascism where it begins to limit liberty of thought and speech etc, which it often does.  The ways in which it is problematic are a lot more subtle and, if I may come off a little condescending for a moment, probably not within the intellectual range of a great deal of the half-heads who stomp around goin' 'WOT?!  I CANT CALL MR PATELS THE PAKI SHOP?  ITS POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD INNIT!'.  Anyway, political correctness never really stopped, at least not in the west, any free speech, not in recent times.  Getting taken off of twitter is not the same as being 'silenced'. 

 

[DieselDaisy]

My main problem with political correctness is its advocates seem to have had a sense of humour lobotomy. As someone who puts humour above pretty much everything I never get on with politically correct people. 

[soon]

13 minutes ago, username said:

Sometimes yes. Sometimes it's the other way around. Both can be the action as well as the reaction. Both only polarize the discussion further. 

But I don't believe someone is right just because they're offended. Sometimes you're right to be, sometimes you should just move on with your life. I do think being offended is a trend in society these days because it allows people to play the victim. 

Its also a trend to label any unwanted or unanticipated response as someone being "offended" so that one doesnt need to put any thought into whats actually being shared.

Like "Bob, I disagree with your assessment of the situation." "I dont know why you have to be offended, John." 

Or the amount of times on line that people predict "Im sure some snowflake will be offended by this, but _______________" and then a bunch of people join them to commiserate about how people are (likely) offended, but the problem is that no one ever actually gets offended. Its just a 'poor me isn't accepted in todays world' echo chamber of... well, victim culture. 

[Len Cnut]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

My main problem with political correctness is its advocates seem to have had a sense of humour lobotomy. As someone who puts humour above pretty much everything I never get on with politically correct people. 

This a thousand times over!  Political correctness impinges a great deal on humour.  The old 'should I be laughing' question.

[username]

23 minutes ago, soon said:

Its also a trend to label any unwanted or unanticipated response as someone being "offended" so that one doesnt need to put any thought into whats actually being shared.

Like "Bob, I disagree with your assessment of the situation." "I dont know why you have to be offended, John." 

Or the amount of times on line that people predict "Im sure some snowflake will be offended by this, but _______________" and then a bunch of people join them to commiserate about how people are (likely) offended, but the problem is that no one ever actually gets offended. Its just a 'poor me isn't accepted in todays world' echo chamber of... well, victim culture. 

Agreed. I meant mostly the (relatively small) group that actually says "this offends me" about just about every regular thing. The ones you describe are just as bad though. 

[soon]

4 minutes ago, username said:

Agreed. I meant mostly the (relatively small) group that actually says "this offends me" about just about every regular thing. The ones you describe are just as bad though. 

Yeah, I agree with what you said earlier that its a spectrum. I think most people fall somewhere in the middle, but the loudest voices are at either extreme. Maybe one end tilts the balance more, but Im not sure.

[Dazey]

41 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

My main problem with political correctness is its advocates seem to have had a sense of humour lobotomy. As someone who puts humour above pretty much everything I never get on with politically correct people. 

As somebody who finds religion in general ridiculous I wonder why there is any more offence to be taken from calling somebody a letterbox than there is from "he's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy".  

Edited August 13, 2018 by Dazey

[Len Cnut]

Just now, Dazey said:

As somebody who finds religion in general ridiculous I wonder why there is any more offence to be taken from calling somebody a letterbox than there is from "he's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy". :shugs:

To me its just effective use of media and spin, I don’t think the majority of the population cares.

[Padme]

56 minutes ago, soon said:

Its also a trend to label any unwanted or unanticipated response as someone being "offended" so that one doesnt need to put any thought into whats actually being shared.

Like "Bob, I disagree with your assessment of the situation." "I dont know why you have to be offended, John." 

Or the amount of times on line that people predict "Im sure some snowflake will be offended by this, but _______________" and then a bunch of people join them to commiserate about how people are (likely) offended, but the problem is that no one ever actually gets offended. Its just a 'poor me isn't accepted in todays world' echo chamber of... well, victim culture. 

When Axl called Slash a cancer in an interview. Nobody gave Axl an standing ovation for that comment. It is a matter of taste sometimes. When GN'R mocked Trump beating a pinata in show in Mexico. Here a lot of people got offended.  But if you say you find OIAM offensive. They call you a pussy

[soon]

14 minutes ago, Padme said:

When Axl called Slash a cancer in an interview. Nobody gave Axl an standing ovation for that comment. It is a matter of taste sometimes. When GN'R mocked Trump beating a pinata in show in Mexico. Here a lot of people got offended.  But if you say you find OIAM offensive. They call you a pussy

Very good point about the Tump and OIAM thing. And because of what youre highlighting I wonder if those offended by the Trump pinata would admit to the word "offended"? I suspect because of how the words been weaponized that they'd say "Im not offended, Im just speaking up for respect and decency." Which is what people might be saying about OIAM - decency and respect - when they get shot down as being simply offended. 

[Len Cnut]

15 minutes ago, soon said:

Very good point about the Tump and OIAM thing. And because of what youre highlighting I wonder if those offended by the Trump pinata would admit to the word "offended"? I suspect because of how the words been weaponized that they'd say "Im not offended, Im just speaking up for respect and decency." Which is what people might be saying about OIAM - decency and respect - when they get shot down as being simply offended. 

Sounds like a bunch of people all dying to win an argument any way they can.

[soon]

6 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Sounds like a bunch of people all dying to win an argument any way they can.

I hope so. Because I fear that Ive encountered some true believers and the future looks bleak if thats the case. I think this framework makes it so what would otherwise be conversations are turned into arguments. 

[Len Cnut]

9 minutes ago, soon said:

I hope so. Because I fear that Ive encountered some true believers and the future looks bleak if thats the case. I think this framework makes it so what would otherwise be conversations are turned into arguments. 

People can't be that fuckin' thick man, they just can't be   Somewhere in his or her heart every cunt knows when they're just being a cunt.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Len Cnut

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Padme said:

When Axl called Slash a cancer in an interview. Nobody gave Axl an standing ovation for that comment. It is a matter of taste sometimes. When GN'R mocked Trump beating a pinata in show in Mexico. Here a lot of people got offended.  But if you say you find OIAM offensive. They call you a pussy

Here we have a saying "only the dog scratches himself out", because we humans do it to the inside. It means that people only care for themselves and their own interest.

That would explain why some get offended by the Trump piñata and not by the OIAM lyrics. If we were on a forum of black people or immigrants, the reactions would be completely different.

It is rare to find people who have made the effort of putting themselves in someone else's shoes and try to understand why some things would be offensive.

For some people, their favorite stupid racist hateful stand up comedy act making humor at the expense of the disgrace and grief of others is much more important than the roasting of a different someone they cannot relate to because of differences.

But it would only take their fav stand up comedian to go making humor with something/someone that person deeply cares about, for them to inmediately make the switch and feel "offended", because now those emotions are hitting home.

Edited August 13, 2018 by killuridols

[DieselDaisy]

8 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

This a thousand times over!  Political correctness impinges a great deal on humour.  The old 'should I be laughing' question.

Politically correct people tend to have patronising voices and heads which wobble a lot. Sturgeon is a good example, as is that Asian politician whose name escapes me. 

Edit,

Shami Chakrabarti. That is the one. They all have wobbly heads, pc people. It must be all that weird coffee they drink?

Edited August 13, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[Len Cnut]

50 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Politically correct people tend to have patronising voices and heads which wobble a lot. Sturgeon is a good example, as is that Asian politician whose name escapes me. 

Edit,

Shami Chakrabarti. That is the one. They all have wobbly heads, pc people. It must be all that weird coffee they drink?

I honestly think humour in that broader sense is draining from society.  Not in terms of like normal people but I'm talking about public life, famous people, celebrities etc.  Middle class people as well, come to that.  Incidentally the people that telly is made for.  

Edited August 13, 2018 by Len Cnut