Hyperbole: Think about it like this...

[Len Cnut]

19 minutes ago, wasted said:

In terms of lying do you put him in

the context of presidents lying us into war. Literally getting people killed. The whole media was involved in that and they are pretending to be innocent.

Broadly speaking they're no better at all.  All of the aforementioned, through just or crooked means, serve a function.  In parts negative and in parts positive.  Jones is just a thoroughly useless spare tit   I'm not saying he's evil, I'm saying he's a pranny and I'm casting doubt on the positive benefit, on any level, of his existing

Edited September 6, 2018 by Len Cnut

[wasted]

15 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Broadly speaking they're no better at all.  All of the aforementioned, through just or crooked means, serve a function.  In parts negative and in parts positive.  Jones is just a thoroughly useless spare tit  

He’s pretty useful to them in terms of distracting us from things. As in the gun control issue got put on hold. It always becomes about this crazy stuff not actual real issues. 

What he brought to light in Parkland was CNN coaching/organizing the kids. Not that that is wrong per say, but that it’s happening. Personally who knows what to do there. To pro gun people that’s important to know. 

But that is what is horrible is these tragedies become like meat or tools to convince people to vote one way or another. And then in this state of hyperbole the line gets crossed. Then that gets fed back into the machine. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by wasted

[Len Cnut]

I wouldn't know about that coaching thing, never heard that.

[wasted]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

I wouldn't know about that coaching thing, never heard that.

I only know about stuff I listened to. All western search engines seem to be blocked. I used Bing and get stuff about his defamation case he lost. He’s banned on facebook, youtube. I don’t think that is really going to stop bad things happening. He just seems like the scapegoat. 

[soon]

I like these news outlets 

https://theintercept.com

https://intercontinentalcry.org

https://www.hrw.org

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world

https://www.thenation.com/authors/dave-zirin/

[janrichmond]

@Len Cnut David Icke- the fella who had mad conspiracy theories about the royals being lizards 

[wasted]

Icke was a football goalkeeper. But he seemed to stay out of everyday politics. I think he can still fill a stadium now and then. 

I think Jones used to be more like that but has got more into everyday politics since Trump. He seems to use hyperbole to shutdown certain issues. That’s basically what the right does. They have some principles that they fight for and if they can’t win they get more offensive. So when there’s a school shooting Jones knows they are coming for his guns so he starts coming up with outlandish stuff so they can’t get that debate started. 

The left shutdown the conversation by getting offended, looking to be offended because they don’t like something. So Trump gets quoted out of context and tie things together a certain way. Gets branded a certain thing and that’s the stick he gets beaten with. 

Both have set agendas and both create this hyperbolic cycle. The conversation that needs to happen just never gets there because this back and forth of tactics. 

So I get what OP was saying. At this point it’s a broken system. The only way is not to take things literally because it’s worded a certain way to fight for media time. You have to sort of look either further into it or see the basic point. 

It’s addictive though, as it sort of numbs you to being alive right now. Either complaining about the past or dreaming about the future and not able to have a civil discussion in the present. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by wasted

[DeadSlash]

17 hours ago, soon said:

The US news media has had to contend with some pressures and changes over the years. All the while existing in the clutch of Imperial Hyper-Capitalism.

- The McCarthy era is a huge one obviously. Left a very changed mood and landscape in US journalism. It removed entire currents of journalism and lineages of practice.

- The disparity in education between journalists and the average US news consumer. During the Space Race this disparity really came to the fore. Some journalists were explaining rocket science leaving many viewers/readers confused or bored. This contributed heavily to the rise of Human Interest Stories. Interview the Astronauts parents instead.

- Vietnam War. The media coverage left a nation divided. The establishment would, moving forward, never allow such access to the realities of US style warfare. This produces things like the first Gulf War CNN incident where the reporters were caught faking to be on location in a battlefield. 

- Death of Print Journalism. As it ground to a halt good journalists were told to rush. They werent given budgets that would allow them to get the stories and corroborating statements, once a gold standard of journalism. And this paired perfectly with an increasingly secretive State and laissez-faire public. All parties quickly became acclimated to the phrase "an un named source..."

 

Another one to add to the list is the 24 hour news stations and filling airtime during a crisis/big news event when nothing new has happened.  It's simply unacceptable to say "Hey, you can go outside, we didn't learn any new shit about the Vegas shooter in the last 10 minutes."  They need to make shit up, lest you tune into their competition who is weaving a more intricate fantasy.

[DeadSlash]

19 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

I completely agree with this in terms of the mainstream media.  In fact I've wondered why its taken so many so long to come to this conclusion.  But the problem here is, the so-called 'alternative media', and I'm not just talking about your Alex Joneses and Tommy Robinsons nutbags like that, I'm talking about the general thing of like, just any old yahoo with a camera and a mic somehow becoming an authority on...well, anything is kinda dangerous. 

The sad truth is the general public (and I'm including myself in this, lest I sound arrogant) are fuckin' thick.  A lot of what is in media etc is part of the education that helps form our opinions/understanding of the world around us etc and its dangerous that it be left in the hands of morons because this will give rise to generations of morons that will lead us all to waters as a species. 

This is why I think conventional education (and this is an increasingly unpopular opinion recently) is REALLY important.  Not necessarily to fuckin' follow blindly but I don't think a broadband connection is enough for the populus on the whole to get clued up off of. 

Yes, people are thick as f.  People don't use critical thinking or apply any sort of test to whatever agenda they support, they just rubber stamp it.  My favorite display of this is the endless supply of ytube videos where the take like a Hillary quote and tell a Trump supporter that it was Trump who said it and ask them what they think and vise-versa.  They always support their candidate...  "How do you feel about Hillary saying we need to build a wall between the US and Mexico?  Oh, I absolutely agree. "How is that different from Trump saying he wants to build a wall? "Oh, she isn't doing it for racist reasons.

I was participating on a forum where politics is the main topic, just had to walk away because people were such dumb sheep, on BOTH sides.

 

[wasted]

What’s crazy too is that whether it was Trump or Hillary nothing much changes. Trump or whoever can say they will do such and such but they won’t, if they could the one before would’ve. So it’s much a do about nothing. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by wasted

[DeadSlash]

1 hour ago, wasted said:

What’s crazy too is that whether it was Trump or Hillary nothing much changes. Trump or whoever can say they will do such and such but they won’t, if they could the one before would’ve. So it’s much a do about nothing. 

Truth.  People went crazy when Obama was elected, what really changed?  People were talking like the world had died when Trump was elected, has anything really changed?

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, DeadSlash said:

Truth.  People went crazy when Obama was elected, what really changed?  People were talking like the world had died when Trump was elected, has anything really changed?

And then when they’re done its like ‘well, he/she couldnt change the world in two terms’ ‘oh, OK, but what have they ACTUALLY done?’ ‘Uh...uh...uh...’.

[soon]

8 hours ago, wasted said:

Icke was a football goalkeeper. But he seemed to stay out of everyday politics. I think he can still fill a stadium now and then. 

I think Jones used to be more like that but has got more into everyday politics since Trump. He seems to use hyperbole to shutdown certain issues. That’s basically what the right does. They have some principles that they fight for and if they can’t win they get more offensive. So when there’s a school shooting Jones knows they are coming for his guns so he starts coming up with outlandish stuff so they can’t get that debate started. 

The left shutdown the conversation by getting offended, looking to be offended because they don’t like something. So Trump gets quoted out of context and tie things together a certain way. Gets branded a certain thing and that’s the stick he gets beaten with. 

Both have set agendas and both create this hyperbolic cycle. The conversation that needs to happen just never gets there because this back and forth of tactics. 

So I get what OP was saying. At this point it’s a broken system. The only way is not to take things literally because it’s worded a certain way to fight for media time. You have to sort of look either further into it or see the basic point. 

It’s addictive though, as it sort of numbs you to being alive right now. Either complaining about the past or dreaming about the future and not able to have a civil discussion in the present. 

Who's offended? Some offended boogie man pan-gender haunts the media narrative but is seen less then Bigfoot. Its a right wing deflection tactic thats been mainstreamed. It doesnt matter that its easy to disprove because todays right only plays offence in a debate. So they just move on.

Also who is a left wing voice in mainstream media? Pretty sure that doesnt exist.

Edited September 7, 2018 by soon

[wasted]

2 hours ago, DeadSlash said:

Truth.  People went crazy when Obama was elected, what really changed?  People were talking like the world had died when Trump was elected, has anything really changed?

Not literally but overall I see no changes with the main problems. Definitely not enough to get worked up about. 

[wasted]

1 hour ago, soon said:

Who's offended? Some offended boogie man pan-gender haunts the media narrative but is seen less then Bigfoot. Its a right wing deflection tactic thats been mainstreamed. It doesnt matter that its easy to disprove because todays right only plays offence in a debate. So they just move on.

Also who is a left wing voice in mainstream media? Pretty sure that doesnt exist.

It’s just general trends you see. CNN. The way Trump is attacked is more the out of context quote. The left is much more touchy about words. Is that not fair? And that is what gets hyperboled to “Trump’s a racist” or whatever. As a liberal I get where that’s coming from. But not based on what he said. I guess hyperbole goes to nazi and then that’s the end of any discussion. It’s in that vein. It’s generally about being offended about how people are treated. That’s the hyperbole style, not a summation of everything. 

The right seems less about people and more about things like economy, gun control, these ideas. And they go kind of over the top almost about something else entirely sometimes just to distract. Trump or Jones just turning it into craziness, the hyperbole blocks any normal conversation about the issue. Different style of hyperbole. 

That’s not all the time or at the same time. Just categories of hyperbole from what I’ve seen. 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by wasted

[soon]

38 minutes ago, wasted said:

It’s just general trends you see. CNN. The way Trump is attacked is more the out of context quote. The left is much more touchy about words. Is that not fair? And that is what gets hyperboled to “Trump’s a racist” or whatever. As a liberal I get where that’s coming from. But not based on what he said. I guess hyperbole goes to nazi and then that’s the end of any discussion. It’s in that vein. It’s generally about being offended about how people are treated. That’s the hyperbole style, not a summation of everything. 

The right seems less about people and more about things like economy, gun control, these ideas. And they go kind of over the top almost about something else entirely sometimes just to distract. Trump or Jones just turning it into craziness, the hyperbole blocks any normal conversation about the issue. Different style of hyperbole. 

That’s not all the time or at the same time. Just categories of hyperbole from what I’ve seen. 

 

I wouldnt agree that CNN represents or is informed by leftist thought. The far right has mainstreamed its talking points and framework, along with its own presence. But just becauasue the discourse has shifted right doesnt mean all dissenting voices represent the left. Thats a false equivalency.

One doesn't just work with Bannon, Sessions and Miller randomly, with out having sympathies for White Nationalism. Is it time to coin the term "reverse hyperbole" where in Trump can call murderous white nationalists "good people" but highlighting that for what it is - support for organized hate - is whats considered to be the hyperbole?

Im not sure that the left is more touchy about "words." I would say that you are correct that the right limits its thoughts to God, Guns, Gays kinda stuff. And because of those limitations they themselves get touchy when confronted with more nuanced and fact driven conversations. So its simpler for them to understand that "the left is offended by Trump" then it is to say "the left are diligently documenting and disseminating Trumps attack on the Constitution and the diverse peoples it represents." Words bother right wingers because they dont understand them. I believe more often then not right wingers are projecting there own discomforts about the 'offended' thing.

[wasted]

2 minutes ago, soon said:

I wouldnt agree that CNN represents or is informed by leftist thought. The far right has mainstreamed its talking points and framework, along with its own presence. But just becauasue the discourse has shifted right doesnt mean all dissenting voices represent the left. Thats a false equivalency.

One doesn't just work with Bannon, Sessions and Miller randomly, with out having sympathies for White Nationalism. Is it time to coin the term "reverse hyperbole" where in Trump can call murderous white nationalists "good people" but highlighting that for what it is - support for organized hate - is whats considered to be the hyperbole?

Im not sure that the left is more touchy about "words." I would say that you are correct that the right limits its thoughts to God, Guns, Gays kinda stuff. And because of those limitations they themselves get touchy when confronted with more nuanced and fact driven conversations. So its simpler for them to understand that "the left is offended by Trump" then it is to say "the left are diligently documenting and disseminating Trumps attack on the Constitution and the diverse peoples it represents." Words bother right wingers because they dont understand them. I believe more often then not right wingers are projecting there own discomforts about the 'offended' thing.

Oh you meant The Left? I don’t know there seems to be a more authoritarian thing going on in general. Not much forgiveness going on. 

Not all, just the ones from the left seem more about calling people racists. From Hillary’s deplorable comment on down. To me that is a more authoritarian style.

“Murderous” though? I see both sides on the way to war anyway.  

Those are fair points about the right, if a bit of a generalization, but it often gets voiced as Trump’s a nazi. That’s the hyperbole. I don’t think people’s comcerns about immigration are about race. It might be but it quickly goes to hyperbole that it never gets discussed is what I’m saying here. 

The mainstream media is like this rolling disaster whenever I tune in. 

[soon]

18 minutes ago, wasted said:

Oh you meant The Left? I don’t know there seems to be a more authoritarian thing going on in general. Not much forgiveness going on. 

Not all, just the ones from the left seem more about calling people racists. From Hillary’s deplorable comment on down. To me that is a more authoritarian style.

“Murderous” though? I see both sides on the way to war anyway.  

Those are fair points about the right, if a bit of a generalization, but it often gets voiced as Trump’s a nazi. That’s the hyperbole. I don’t think people’s comcerns about immigration are about race. It might be but it quickly goes to hyperbole that it never gets discussed is what I’m saying here. 

The mainstream media is like this rolling disaster whenever I tune in. 

I guess we really disagree on terms. I do not consider Clinton to be a leftie. Not in the least. 

Yeah, I will stand by "murderous." Lots of right wing murder going on these days. But in the case I was referring to they literally murdered in that specific event. So I dont see how thats controversial to say?

I dont get the "both sides" argument because if one side is White Nationalism then the other side is everyone else on Earth.

The only mainstream media I consume as a daily routine is our Public Broadcaster, CBC. Articles on line an radio. That might lead me to check out something in The Guardian, BBC, Al Jazera, NYT on occasion. But other then that I dont touch the stuff. I see clips on this forum or on late night comedy shows. I know what its all about and agree its extremely hyperbolic (is adding "extremely" hyperbolic?). But I haven't seen clips equalling 5 minutes of CNN for, maybe, 10 years. I see it in waiting rooms, bars, during dentistry and all that. I just dont use it as a go to source of info. And they're all so sexy its difficult to remain chaste, lol.

But in my view of it, it seems like they are hyperbolic about everything and not just politics. Like minor fluctuations for gas prices are played up as if fluctuations aren't as sure as death and taxes. Like the 24 hour channels are shameless with that stuff, no matter what the situation is: "gas is up, skyrocketing up a 1/3rd of a cent per litre, how will this effect the long weekend." ".... How will this effect the Holiday season?!" ".... How will this effect the summer time?!" "... how will this effect your home ownership dreams?" ".... how will this effect your marriage?" "... hit men are going to shake you down for your gambling debt because of high gas prices."

Do they really say things like "Trump is a Nazi" on CNN? 

[wasted]

58 minutes ago, soon said:

I guess we really disagree on terms. I do not consider Clinton to be a leftie. Not in the least. 

Yeah, I will stand by "murderous." Lots of right wing murder going on these days. But in the case I was referring to they literally murdered in that specific event. So I dont see how thats controversial to say?

I dont get the "both sides" argument because if one side is White Nationalism then the other side is everyone else on Earth.

The only mainstream media I consume as a daily routine is our Public Broadcaster, CBC. Articles on line an radio. That might lead me to check out something in The Guardian, BBC, Al Jazera, NYT on occasion. But other then that I dont touch the stuff. I see clips on this forum or on late night comedy shows. I know what its all about and agree its extremely hyperbolic (is adding "extremely" hyperbolic?). But I haven't seen clips equalling 5 minutes of CNN for, maybe, 10 years. I see it in waiting rooms, bars, during dentistry and all that. I just dont use it as a go to source of info. And they're all so sexy its difficult to remain chaste, lol.

But in my view of it, it seems like they are hyperbolic about everything and not just politics. Like minor fluctuations for gas prices are played up as if fluctuations aren't as sure as death and taxes. Like the 24 hour channels are shameless with that stuff, no matter what the situation is: "gas is up, skyrocketing up a 1/3rd of a cent per litre, how will this effect the long weekend." ".... How will this effect the Holiday season?!" ".... How will this effect the summer time?!" "... how will this effect your home ownership dreams?" ".... how will this effect your marriage?" "... hit men are going to shake you down for your gambling debt because of high gas prices."

Do they really say things like "Trump is a Nazi" on CNN? 

I don’t go to any non mainstream sources. But I doubt the presenters said that. I remember some celebrity calling him Hitler. It was common to call him a nazi, white supremacist just wasn’t enough. I mean I have called Bannon a nazi in conversation. I just throw that word around like candy. But I don’t think he really is. 

I don’t know the murderous event, so it seems a bit over the top. But we are agreeing mainstream media is hyperbolic anyway. 

That seems to be a problem in really working anything out. 

This sort of covers it

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/sure-call-trump-a-nazi-just-make-sure-you-know-what-youre-talking-about/?utm_term=.193607f08385

 

By Both sides, I mean both sides are up for going to war. So I don’t look at any of them in a favorable light. Trump was missiling Syria pretty quick. 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by wasted

[soon]

8 hours ago, wasted said:

I don’t go to any non mainstream sources. But I doubt the presenters said that. I remember some celebrity calling him Hitler. It was common to call him a nazi, white supremacist just wasn’t enough. I mean I have called Bannon a nazi in conversation. I just throw that word around like candy. But I don’t think he really is. 

I don’t know the murderous event, so it seems a bit over the top. But we are agreeing mainstream media is hyperbolic anyway. 

That seems to be a problem in really working anything out. 

This sort of covers it

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/sure-call-trump-a-nazi-just-make-sure-you-know-what-youre-talking-about/?utm_term=.193607f08385

 

By Both sides, I mean both sides are up for going to war. So I don’t look at any of them in a favorable light. Trump was missiling Syria pretty quick. 

 

I think the main issue preventing people from working anything out is the notion that there is no objective truth. This is a core pillar of todays Right wing propaganda machine. And something that you have given voice too as well.

I agree with dusty ol' Obomber on this one

 

[wasted]

3 hours ago, soon said:

I think the main issue preventing people from working anything out is the notion that there is no objective truth. This is a core pillar of todays Right wing propaganda machine. And something that you have given voice too as well.

I agree with dusty ol' Obomber on this one

 

To me that is way liberal or the product of meth induced shchizophrenia, people have near death experiences and come back with stories of aliens telling them life is not real. I toy with the idea of life being a simulation. Ayn Rand is all about objective truth right? 

This has always been a debate around postmodernism. On the one hand having shifting intrepretations and irony means that you can’t really have a revolution because there is no set reality. So that in a way is inherently conservative.

But on the other, postmodernism takes apart the patriarchy as there is no central dominant culture. So it’s a constant attack. People don’t have a set self, there is no self to Scream like that modernist painting. Everyone has a fragmented self or subject to change so when they try to adopt a philosophy it falls to pieces. Like Trump on immigration, his wife was an immigrant. I can say I’m English but I watch mainly US tv shows and eat Chinese food. 

What I actually think the problem is is understanding. When you look at most people agree on most things, it’s just the speed of change. Most conservatives now are okay with gay/women’s rights and some form of abortion. We’ve come a long way. But then new progressive stuff comes around like trans rights and conservatives drag their feet. It just takes time. 

In terms of hyperbole, there’s a lot of misunderstanding. Almost taking things the wrong way, hard to say if on purpose or not. But there’s little effort to see where someone else is coming from. The worst is assumed I guess. The issues are pretty complex and you have to take in various perspectives. Even though I’m pro choice, I get that for some that abortion is killing a baby. So I don’t think that comes from a bad place. Then factor in religious beliefs then how can I enforce my idea on them? To me hyperbole really stops people thinking because it makes them overreact and everyone is on a war footing. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by wasted

[Len Cnut]

I wish Obama had been more...cool   First black president and he turns out to be this jug-eared nerd

[soon]

Wah? Obama is a lesson in cool 

[arnold layne]

On 9/5/2018 at 9:15 PM, DeadSlash said:

The use of hyperbole is really on the rise in the US media.  It's at the point where I don't like watching any news related programs, from EITHER side.  Hyperbole is becoming popular outside of the media also, but it's so counter-productive.  Think about it like this:

Let's say you are working in a store, and a lady comes up to you and says "Do you see that guy in the green shirt over there? He's acting really weird and looking around, I think I saw him shove something in his pants, I think he might be shoplifting."  You thank the person and they walk away, and now the guy in the green shirt walks over to you. "Be careful, that lady who was just talking to you is a known shoplifter."  Oh, shit! you think to yourself, that lady just tricked you into looking elsewhere while she shoplifted!  Then the man in the green shirt adds "She killed my 3 children and my wife.  She is a Russian spy and she is putting things in the water to make the frogs gay so she can rape children on the anniversary of 9/11."

Does hyperbole make you sound less or more credible?  Less is more, ffs.

 

PS. This rant has nothing to do with this forum.  No hidden message.

I hate to bring Trump into this, but it got really bad around Trump came into politics. The media, for good or for worse, really despises Donald Trump.

I think he is a complete twat, but as of right now (and I understand we are walking on thin ice) George W. was worse. Killing thousands of our own soldiers in wars we had no business being in and crashing the economy was, well, horrible.

[Len Cnut]

46 minutes ago, soon said:

Wah? Obama is a lesson in cool 

To be fair even Samuel L Jackson, an archetype of cool looks a fuckin' twat there so it must been something about their air around them richie people that makes you go funny.