On the Road with Guns N' Roses (In-Ear Monitors)

[ZoSo]

Didn't see this posted anywhere else, although it is quite old, but here is an interesting set of comments from the band (minus Axl of course) regarding the use of in-ear monitors. The topic of whether or not Slash enjoyed using IEM came up in the Paris gig thread a couple of days ago regarding his current playing style/ability. Although it's basically a sell for JH, seems like they all love the experience of IEM, which was a first for Slash and Duff.

 

[©GnrPersia]

I don't know much about technicalities, but how come all these guys were performing perfect without IEM back in the 80s and 90s? Always wondered the same for Axl. He started this in 2001 and obviously seem struggling with it on stage at times. Touching his ear at many instances throughout the years to come.

So I appreciate if someone could explain this a bit in detail.

Edited July 20, 2023 by ©GnrPersia

[MrSoftie]

We use IEM in my band. Once you get used to it and get the mix right it's a blast. You can hear everything clearly, like a live release in your ears, but most importantly you can fine tune. For example, I have my backing vocals up high so I can hear myself and my guitar more or less level with the other guitarist. It's a godsend.

[Billy Cundy]

2 minutes ago, MrSoftie said:

We use IEM in my band. Once you get used to it and get the mix right it's a blast. You can hear everything clearly, like a live release in your ears, but most importantly you can fine tune. For example, I have my backing vocals up high so I can hear myself and my guitar more or less level with the other guitarist. It's a godsend.

From the other perspective … appreciate everyone’s different… but my experience with IEMs has always been that they’re a real drag. They take me out of the moment, and you play less as a band and more as individuals. 
 

monitors all the way. One of the bands I play with uses a lot of backing track for synth and BVs and even then only our drummer has in-ears, so we are playing to him. 
 

can appreciate everyone’s different, but that’s my experience. I don’t think they’re conducive to any vibe.

[eggers]

48 minutes ago, ©GnrPersia said:

I don't know much about technicalities, but how come all these guys were performing perfect without IEM back in the 80s and 90s? Always wondered the same for Axl. He started this in 2001 and obviously seem struggling with it on stage at times. Touching his ear at many instances throughout the years to come.

So I appreciate if someone could explain this a bit in detail.

I would not call this bands 80s and 90s live performances perfect by any stretch.

[HollyWoodRose84]

The other thing nobody talks about is hearing loss and how these help. As someone who’s been wearing hearing aids for nearly 20 years, it always amazed me how so many artists still perform without ear plugs/IEM’s. You’d be surprised just how many of them today are nearly deaf. 

[Ollster42]

56 minutes ago, HollyWoodRose84 said:

The other thing nobody talks about is hearing loss and how these help. As someone who’s been wearing hearing aids for nearly 20 years, it always amazed me how so many artists still perform without ear plugs/IEM’s. You’d be surprised just how many of them today are nearly deaf. 

very true, wonder what the state of slash and duff's hearing is due to their lack of IEM and probably hearing protection use, can't imagine they'd want to wear earplugs 

[Voodoochild]

4 hours ago, ©GnrPersia said:

I don't know much about technicalities, but how come all these guys were performing perfect without IEM back in the 80s and 90s? Always wondered the same for Axl. He started this in 2001 and obviously seem struggling with it on stage at times. Touching his ear at many instances throughout the years to come.

So I appreciate if someone could explain this a bit in detail.

You don't need loud monitors to hear everything, and for singers, this is a game change. You don't have to sing louder than the guitars and everything else, because you would be able to hear yourself clearly. 

The problem with Axl is that he sings in different volumes - the higher the pitch, the lower the volume because he uses less of his chest voice. I believe his in-ear monitor engineer have to manually adapt the volume to Axl's singing register/pitch on the fly. This is would also explain why the Glastonburry broadcast had those problems with the vocals, although it wasn't the only reason as far as I know.

For guitarists, there's also the thing that you don't need those huge cabinets on stage. Some people use virtual amps on a laptop, so there wouldn't be other way to actually hear themselves. 

Also, I think @HollyWoodRose84 brought something very important to the table: you can hear everything at a lower level in your ear. But it's very important to keep both ears plugged, it's very dangerous to stress just one ear with the monitor.

[MrSoftie]

6 hours ago, Billy Cundy said:

From the other perspective … appreciate everyone’s different… but my experience with IEMs has always been that they’re a real drag. They take me out of the moment, and you play less as a band and more as individuals. 
 

monitors all the way. One of the bands I play with uses a lot of backing track for synth and BVs and even then only our drummer has in-ears, so we are playing to him. 
 

can appreciate everyone’s different, but that’s my experience. I don’t think they’re conducive to any vibe.

Each to their own. I feel that way when we started using them, but getting the mix right changed everything.

[Billy Cundy]

4 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

You don't need loud monitors to hear everything, and for singers, this is a game change. You don't have to sing louder than the guitars and everything else, because you would be able to hear yourself clearly. 

The problem with Axl is that he sings in different volumes - the higher the pitch, the lower the volume because he uses less of his chest voice. I believe his in-ear monitor engineer have to manually adapt the volume to Axl's singing register/pitch on the fly. This is would also explain why the Glastonburry broadcast had those problems with the vocals, although it wasn't the only reason as far as I know.

For guitarists, there's also the thing that you don't need those huge cabinets on stage. Some people use virtual amps on a laptop, so there wouldn't be other way to actually hear themselves. 

Also, I think @HollyWoodRose84 brought something very important to the table: you can hear everything at a lower level in your ear. But it's very important to keep both ears plugged, it's very dangerous to stress just one ear with the monitor.

The battle for sound engineers is when a singer doesn’t have great dynamic control (or like axl, has either a loud baritone shout or a whispy thin falsetto) they need to massively pump the compression, but pumping compression on a mic means it picks up everything else! Not an easy job.

[Voodoochild]

1 hour ago, Billy Cundy said:

The battle for sound engineers is when a singer doesn’t have great dynamic control (or like axl, has either a loud baritone shout or a whispy thin falsetto) they need to massively pump the compression, but pumping compression on a mic means it picks up everything else! Not an easy job.

Yeah, compression and gain. Before the in-ear monitors, Axl used to have a lot of problems with feedback noises on stage because of this same reason, I believe.

[eggers]

17 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

The problem with Axl is that he sings in different volumes - the higher the pitch, the lower the volume because he uses less of his chest voice. I believe his in-ear monitor engineer have to manually adapt the volume to Axl's singing register/pitch on the fly. This is would also explain why the Glastonburry broadcast had those problems with the vocals, although it wasn't the only reason as far as I know.

That’s what a compressor is for. They aren’t sitting there riding his vocal in real time the whole show I guarantee you that.

[SilverMachine]

One of my main observations from watching Guns in Dublin last year was that Axl continually had timing issues throughout the gig, regularly coming in late or early or just generally out of time. My only explanation was that there was some sort of sync or lag with his IEMs. From the footage I've seen this year that doesn't appear to be an issue - wonder if its because of a change in how they monitor their gigs now?

[SilverMachine]

Also interesting to hear actual interviews with almost the whole band (barring one significant absentee) - I'm not sure I've ever heard Frank speak.

Can't think of a more challenging job than being Axl's monitor guy!

And what's with the Sweet Child remix?

[Voodoochild]

5 hours ago, eggers said:

That’s what a compressor is for. They aren’t sitting there riding his vocal in real time the whole show I guarantee you that.

I know, but the compressor could only go so far. Keep in mind that we're talking about a guy who's constantly talking back in forth with his crew and can be pretty vocal (no pun intended) when things go wrong with his in-ear piece.

1 hour ago, SilverMachine said:

One of my main observations from watching Guns in Dublin last year was that Axl continually had timing issues throughout the gig, regularly coming in late or early or just generally out of time. My only explanation was that there was some sort of sync or lag with his IEMs. From the footage I've seen this year that doesn't appear to be an issue - wonder if its because of a change in how they monitor their gigs now?

Always wondered about that. But why nobody else have problem with this? 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Voodoochild

[TOS--LOA]

5 hours ago, eggers said:

That’s what a compressor is for. They aren’t sitting there riding his vocal in real time the whole show I guarantee you that.

FWIW I was lucky enough to do some work a few years back with AC/DC's FOH guy for the Axl tour and he said that's exactly what he did with Axl. He manually rode the compression gain all show. He said that in his opinion Axl's IEM guy blasts the vox too much which leads to Axl sometimes giving a less than hearty signal. If he said this about Axl on the AC/DC tour you can imagine it's 100x more problematic on the guns material where at times Axl is singing in the whispiest of falsetto. 

[Voodoochild]

24 minutes ago, TOS--LOA said:

FWIW I was lucky enough to do some work a few years back with AC/DC's FOH guy for the Axl tour and he said that's exactly what he did with Axl. He manually rode the compression gain all show. He said that in his opinion Axl's IEM guy blasts the vox too much which leads to Axl sometimes giving a less than hearty signal. If he said this about Axl on the AC/DC tour you can imagine it's 100x more problematic on the guns material where at times Axl is singing in the whispiest of falsetto. 

That's some very cool info, thanks for sharing. What do you mean by "less than hearty signal"?

[TOS--LOA]

2 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

That's some very cool info, thanks for sharing. What do you mean by "less than hearty signal"?

Sorry it was a typo, I meant hardy. Basically a less robust signal. 

He was pretty much saying that by blasting the vox in Axl's ear it gives Axl the somewhat false impression that he's singing with enough force at times when he's actually not putting out much signal at all. When he said this it made a ton of sense to me especially if you listen to how Axl sings some parts of Estranged sometimes. He's barely moving the needle he's singing so quietly. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by TOS--LOA

[Voodoochild]

4 minutes ago, TOS--LOA said:

Sorry it was a typo, I meant hardy. Basically a less robust signal. 

He was pretty much saying that by blasting the vox in Axl's ear it gives Axl the somewhat false impression that he's singing with enough force at times when he's actually not putting out much signal at all. When he said this it made a ton of sense to me especially if you listen to how Axl sings some parts of Estranged sometimes. He's barely moving the needle he's singing so quietly. 

Oh cool. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. He may overpower his lower register too if the mix isn't right for that, which would explain his extremely loud ABSURD shouts. 

[TOS--LOA]

1 minute ago, Voodoochild said:

Oh cool. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. He may overpower his lower register too if the mix isn't right for that, which would explain his extremely loud ABSURD shouts. 

Exactly. Which is why the AC/DC guy did it manually, that along with the previous commenter's point of not wanting to have an unused "open" mic gained up when between vocal lines. This was probably more the case with AC/DC since there wasn't much baritone in that set. 

I have a strong suspicion that the new Gnr FOH guy is not riding it manually and that's precisely what's causing the somewhat sloppy sounding extreme peaks and valleys in vocal signal this tour. 

[Billy Cundy]

3 hours ago, SilverMachine said:

One of my main observations from watching Guns in Dublin last year was that Axl continually had timing issues throughout the gig, regularly coming in late or early or just generally out of time. My only explanation was that there was some sort of sync or lag with his IEMs. From the footage I've seen this year that doesn't appear to be an issue - wonder if its because of a change in how they monitor their gigs now?

My theory is when you use IEMs, you’re getting an instant signal. The second frank hits that snare, you’re hearing it. The audience however, particularly at the back of the room are hearing things every so slightly delayed. Axl is anticipating the downbeat and sounds early to the audience. Might be bollocks but I’ve noticed he really rushes ahead nowadays. IEMs are also just generally not conducive to people playing together. He’s not hearing the band in the same way the audience are. 
 

 

On 7/20/2023 at 12:07 PM, HollyWoodRose84 said:

The other thing nobody talks about is hearing loss and how these help. As someone who’s been wearing hearing aids for nearly 20 years, it always amazed me how so many artists still perform without ear plugs/IEM’s. You’d be surprised just how many of them today are nearly deaf. 

I wear attenuating ear plugs and have a relatively modest monitor mix. I miss the days of just having my head blasted off but too old for it now. I have no doubt duff, slash, and axl are all pretty deaf or have bad tinnitus at least.