action Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) time for a little debate here. Which album would you consider the first true full hard rock album front to back? I'm not talking the odd hard song on an album (like helter skelter) but the first fully fledged hard rocker. was cream the first hard rock band? or the jimi Hendrix experience? or were they too psychedelic to be considered hard rock? What about the bluesbreaker album? Is that hard rock or rather something like "hard blues" since it's basically a standard blues album using a les paul in overdrive mode. And no, I'm sorry, appetite isn't electable I'm opening a case for "led zeppelin". What do you think? Let the search for the first true hard rock album in history begin here are some of the candidates that have been mentioned: The Who: - a quick one (1966) - the who sell out (1967) - Tommy (1969) - Who's next (1971) - Quadrophenia (1973) - The Who by numbers (1975) Jimi Hendrix experience: are you experienced (1967) Blue Cheer: Vincebus eruptum (1967) Led zeppelin: Led zeppelin (1969) The Stooges: The stooges (1969) deep purple: in rock (1970) Aerosmith: Aerosmith (1973) AC/DC: High Voltage (1975) Edited May 11, 2016 by action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercool Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_heavy_metal_and_hard_rock_music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, supercool said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_heavy_metal_and_hard_rock_music hmmm... for starters they are mixing metal with hard rock. also, the article claims to be "incomplete" Could be used to start a discussion though, i'll give you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercool Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) some say the first hard rock album is "vincebus eruptum" by blue cheer (recorded in 1967). that's debatable, obviously. Edited May 10, 2016 by supercool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Probably something by Zep, Hendrix was a force of nature, that music has no name, Cream was more sort of blues inclined, Zep are a good shout though because although they were very blues inclined early on they weren't really married to it as such. The Stones might be in there with a shout but again i don't think so, they're very much a rock n roll band in the best sense of the world (and why my love for them will endure, despite certain misgivings late in the day). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, supercool said: some say the first hard rock album is "vincebus eruptum" by blue cheer (recorded in 1967). that's debatable, obviously. cool. never heard of that one. going to check it out if I find the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverburst80 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I guess that depends on what you consider a true HARD rock album. If it's pretty much front to back balls to the wall hard rock i don't really think that was being done till early to mid seventies by a number of bands, hard to say who was first. Of course hard rock had been done before that but not 10 to 12 straight up hard rock songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 i don't think there will ever be a definitive answer, a lot of bands influenced what became hard rock(and heavy metal) another band that was quite heavy and good was the mc5, but pure hard rock really didn't come along until the early 70's when zeppelin and deep purple kept evolving and then sabbath came onto the scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Silverburst80 said: I guess that depends on what you consider a true HARD rock album. If it's pretty much front to back balls to the wall hard rock i don't really think that was being done till early to mid seventies by a number of bands, hard to say who was first. Of course hard rock had been done before that but not 10 to 12 straight up hard rock songs. good point. With Led zeppelin, you have a band that's as much influenced by folk / psychedelic stuff (dazed and confused) as blues (you shook me, baby i'm gonna leave you). They had many hard rocking songs, but an album like zeppelin IV consists of almost an equal share of folk inspired songs. I can easily compile 12 zeppelin songs that are hard rocking, but they dont feature on a single released album. i'm not sure zeppelin released a full on hard rock album anyway. Maybe "presence" (1976)? so there is a difference between the roots of hard rock, and the first full hard rock album without any psychedelic songs or other detractions. with Aerosmith, i'm looking at "rocks" (1976) as an album containing nothing but straight hard rockers. so the answer is not so easy as simply looking up the first "hard rock bands" on a wikipedia list, i think Edited May 10, 2016 by action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Perhaps, Are You Experienced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: Perhaps, Are You Experienced? You blasphemeous swine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Len B'stard said: You blasphemeous swine! Well if you are looking for the first hard rock album it has to be that or Cream, what with anthems like Fire, Manic Depression and Foxy Lady on it! We are not discussing shit rock, elves and stuff; for that Zeppelin are surely progenitors. 'Hard rock' need not be a synonym for shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Well if you are looking for the first hard rock album it has to be that or Cream, what with anthems like Fire, Manic Depression and Foxy Lady on it! We are not discussing shit rock, elves and stuff; for that Zeppelin are surely progenitors. 'Hard rock' need not be a synonym for shite. Way too much experimentation and skill for Hard Rock. And Cream were too blues inclined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 My vote goes to The Stooges' self titled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I'd go with Led Zeppelin 1. Once the heavy blues was paired with the wailing screaming vocals AND the heavier than heavy Bonzo drums, it felt different. Not that the Yardbirds, Cream, Blue Cheer, Hendrix didn't have heavyness elements in their music, but it was with Zep that it felt more like the finished article. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) I feel like The Stones took Chuck Berry to a harder place musically and it was actually good. The Yardbirds as well. Jimi was bluesy hard rock that was experimental as well and Paul wrote Helter Skelter. Deep Purple, Sabbath, and especially Zeppelin made it more hard rock. It rocked hard, harder. Don't think most of it was actually good, but I'm glad this music exist cause I always go back to it but for example Zeppelin might have made it more Hard Rock but it abandoned crucial elements that made the music sterile in a way but still I like it for what it is. When you think about it most of the Hard Rock bands that spawned the genre were musical criminals in a way that fucked with nature. Don't matter who came first, Jimi did it best than all of them combined including Zeppelin, Cream, and all the shit that came after that too. Edited May 10, 2016 by Rovim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Hendrix only dipped his toe in it though. Can't really call any of his albums a hard rock album if it's only got 2 or 3 hard songs in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) 13 hours ago, moreblack said: Hendrix only dipped his toe in it though. Can't really call any of his albums a hard rock album if it's only got 2 or 3 hard songs in it. No, it wasn't just 2 or 3 songs. Not Hard Rock just cause it's also psychedelic? Jimi rocked hard and Are You Experienced especially, but also on Axis and Electric Lady Land (does the name gives it away?) chalk full of shit that rocks. It escalated quickly with other bands until it became metal. More accuracy, volume, speed... just more energy until it's starting to heavily cost you and you're larping all of a sudden and/or can't stop writing about your ding a ling and there's no groove to it whatsoever. Edited May 11, 2016 by Rovim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Rovim said: No, it wasn't just 2 or 3 songs. Not Hard Rock just cause it's also psychedelic? Jimi rocked hard and Are You Experienced especially, but also on Axis and Electric Lady Land (does the name gives it away?) chalk full of shit that rocks. It escalated quickly with other bands until it became metal. More accuracy, volume, speed... just more energy until it's starting to cost you and you're larping all of a sudden and/or can't stop writing about your ding a ling and there's no groove to it whatsoever. and THEN you have hard rock. Hendrix and all the early people related to the genre still had a lot of other music in their albums that would in no way shape or form be called hard rock. Edited May 10, 2016 by moreblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, moreblack said: and THEN you have hard rock. Exactly. I assure you, anything of worth that has anything to do with Hard Rock was done by Jimi already. At least it was said already by him and never as good. After you do what he did you pretty much come up with the best shit in the genre and he incorporated other shit but it was still rock that was hard, maybe not as hard compared to Zeppelin or Deep Purple but certainly Hard Rock and let's be honest, on a different fuckin' stratosphere. I don't look at it like that, but even if you take the "few" hard rocking Jimi tunes it's still better than all the shit that rocked maybe harder that came afterwards. Edited May 10, 2016 by Rovim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, Rovim said: I assure you, anything of worth that has anything to do with Hard Rock was done by Jimi already. After you do what he did you pretty much come up with the best shit in the genre and he incorporated other shit but it was still rock that was hard, maybe not as hard compared to Zeppelin or Deep Purple but certainly Hard Rock and let's be honest, on a different fuckin' stratosphere. I don't look at it like that, but even if you take the "few" hard rocking Jimi tunes it's still better than all the shit that rocked maybe harder that came afterwards. But the initial question was what was the first hard rock album. And while there some hard things in Hendrix's albums, it would be a bit of a stretch to call his albums hard rock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) 13 hours ago, moreblack said: But the initial question was what was the first hard rock album. And while there some hard things in Hendrix's albums, it would be a bit of a stretch to call his albums hard rock. No stretch, you just think some elements need to be there for it to be hard rock and it can't veer too much from the main path of it but that is what so special about the best Hard Rock bands. They don't lose that connection with the blues, yet they bring new and fresh elements that live in harmony with what birthed it. Jimi wrote enough tunes that sure as fuck can only be classified as Hard Rock. Even if we bring it down to Guns, an album like Appetite, you take the best songs and it's bluesy and it rolls as well, but it's still Guns N' Roses with their influences which were more, perhaps to you, "appropriate" but a song like Nightrain is based on Chuck and The Stones and newer shit that came from rock n' roll. Jimi did it masterfully, but you go ahead and put it in the "not hard enough" box even if it's exactly the thing this genre was all about. Edited May 11, 2016 by Rovim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Rovim said: No stretch, you just think some elements need to be there for it to be hard rock and it can veer too much but that is what so special about the best Hard Rock bands. They don't lose that connection with the blues, yet they bring new and fresh elements that lives in harmony with what birthed. Jimi wrote enough tunes that sure as fuck can only be classified as Hard Rock. Even if we bring it down to Guns, an album like Appetite, you take the best songs and it's bluesy and it rolls as well, but it's still Guns N' Roses with their influences which were more, perhaps to you, "appropriate" but a song like Nightrain is based on Chuck and The Stones and newer shit that came from rock n' roll. Jimi did it masterfully, but you go ahead and put it in the "not hard enough" box even if it's exactly the thing this genre was all about. Not that it wasn't hard enough, just not enough of the hard stuff. There was a lot of other stuff going on in those albums. Edited May 10, 2016 by moreblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, moreblack said: Not that it wasn't hard enough, just not enough of the hard stuff. Enough to influence many Hard Rock bands even with like one hard rocking tune of his. I'm counting a lot of "hard stuff" numbers. Not enough rocking tunes? what's all those other tunes? ballads and what exactly? how many real blues songs did Jimi write do you think? It's rock, hard rock, sometimes less hard but at it's core it is bluesy hard rock. Check with your friends. (those that are not into metal) Edited May 11, 2016 by Rovim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, Rovim said: Enough to influence many Hard Rock bands even with like one hard rocking tune of his. I'm counting a lot of "hard stuff" numbers. Not enough rocking tunes? what's all those other tunes? ballads and what exactly? how many real blues songs did Jimi write do you think? It's rock, hard rock, sometimes less hard but at it's core it is bluesy hard rock. Check it with your friends. (those that are not into metal) Yes it's rock, that's more what you'd call it overall. Hard rock? sometimes, many other times not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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