The James Bond Thread: RIP Robbie Coltrane

[Georgy Zhukov]

The female 007 has been blown out of proportion. The big change we'll see is that Bond will no longer be stepping into showers of former sex slaves or having sex with a widow after her husband's funeral. But that to me was all Sam Mendes. Purvis and Wade didn't have any of that shit when they did every film from TWINE to QoS. Women in No Time To Die will be sort of an upgrade from they were in Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace. Maybe more significant. Looking back on Mendes films, women were hardly in it. Sex object in American Beauty or hysterical house wife. Road to Perdition and 1917 hardly had any women in it.

[James Bond]

2 hours ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

The female 007 has been blown out of proportion. The big change we'll see is that Bond will no longer be stepping into showers of former sex slaves or having sex with a widow after her husband's funeral. But that to me was all Sam Mendes. Purvis and Wade didn't have any of that shit when they did every film from TWINE to QoS. Women in No Time To Die will be sort of an upgrade from they were in Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace. Maybe more significant. Looking back on Mendes films, women were hardly in it. Sex object in American Beauty or hysterical house wife. Road to Perdition and 1917 hardly had any women in it.

Not to mention Phoebe Waller-Bridge flat out said she wasn't changing Bond's character at all but rather was just fleshing out the female characters in the film. Barbara Broccoli has said yet again that Bond will remain a man as recent as last month.

[Georgy Zhukov]

1 hour ago, James Bond said:

Not to mention Phoebe Waller-Bridge flat out said she wasn't changing Bond's character at all but rather was just fleshing out the female characters in the film. Barbara Broccoli has said yet again that Bond will remain a man as recent as last month.

People forget that a woman has been running the show as early as TND. Maybe even before that. M has been a woman until recently. Did anyone cry foul since?

Edited March 6, 2020 by Georgy Zhukov

[James Bond]

1 hour ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

People forget that a woman has been running the show as early as TND. Maybe even before that. M has been a woman until recently. Did anyone cry foul since?

I mean, Barbara has worked on every film since Octopussy in 1983. Even Cubby's wife Dana had a lot more involvement in the decisions than credited for. She was still around for Die Another Day.

[PatrickS77]

On 5.3.2020 at 5:48 PM, Powerage5 said:

Exactly - there's zero indication that the film is testing poorly with test audiences. This is absolutely not a production delay. 

 

The marketing campaign is what I'm most curious about also. This is virtually unprecedented, at least in the modern era, that such a major film is so severely delayed so far into the marketing campaign; I mean tickets were already on sale for fucks sake! Multiple trailers, TV spots in nearly every ad break, the title song's release - all out the window for a 7 month delay. I feel that when the marketing campaign starts back up again in the fall, all of the hype will be deflated. 

Who cares? It's still James Bond and in November the interest will still be there. A couple of TV spots, posters, magazines and maybe talk show appearances and all is back on track.

[FuriousStyles]

On 3/5/2020 at 10:22 AM, rocknroll41 said:

Reshoots and re-editing can sometimes save a movie. The original Star Wars was supposed to come out December 1976, but was pushed back half a year for reshoots and re-edits. Those extra 6 months saved that movie. In that time period, the last name “Starkiller” was changed to “Skywalker,” a bunch of pointless scenes were either rearranged or deleted altogether, John Williams beefed up the music, the editors had more time to fix stuff like the sound effects and the color correction, and best of all, George Lucas’ wife had time to restructure the entire finale to make it look like the Death Star was about to blow up the rebel planet, to add to the intensity, and also give the Rebels a more desperate reason to wanna blow up the Death Star.

So, if this new bond movie is currently shit and they need time to fix it, then i say that, by all means, they should go ahead and work on it more.

I was being facetious in a sense, although I appreciate your point. Marcia, Hirsh and Chew saved Star Wars in the editing room.  It's nice to see them getting the recognition they deserve.

I've been disappointed with the direction they've taken Craig's Bond films. I've found them uneven and lacking. Outside of Casino Royale which is an absolute crescendo for the film series.

 

On 3/5/2020 at 10:37 AM, James Bond said:

Every Bond director prior to Cary Fukunaga wishes they had eight months of post-production!

I honestly don't think they'll change much. Maybe some extra time to tidy up the visual effects and music. I'm most curious about how they'll go about marketing the film in the summertime to keep the hype train going.

Billie Eilish hasn't released a proper music video yet so that could be a way to re-introduce the song at the end of summer. Beyond that, they must have decided that the cost of additional marketing outweighs what could be lost on box office. In other words - fuck you, MGM.

I think the film looks terrific myself and feel like Fukunaga is a more than capable director. I think the "female 007" thing was greatly exaggerated and don't think it'll come across as nothing more than an in-joke in the film and not propaganda. Bond has had plenty of female allies.

What's your overall impression of Craig's run? Am I wrong for being so sour?

I really do believe they've missed the mark with what made Casino Royale so thrilling. A great actor with a thrilling take on a classic film character has turned into a mannequin for wide-angled shots and dull conversation.

[DieselDaisy]

We'll see but I fear they have ''pulled a Ghostbusters''. 

[James Bond]

8 hours ago, FuriousStyles said:

What's your overall impression of Craig's run? Am I wrong for being so sour?

I really do believe they've missed the mark with what made Casino Royale so thrilling. A great actor with a thrilling take on a classic film character has turned into a mannequin for wide-angled shots and dull conversation.

Overall - loved it, but I can see why it's very uneven for most fans. It's almost like every other film has been a knockout. Casino Royale was on another level, and Skyfall was the biggest crowd pleaser of a Bond film since the Connery era just in terms of sheer praise and numbers.

Then there's the other two.

I've come around on Quantum. Why Sony didn't push the release date back a full year I'll never know, but despite the production problems, I enjoy it for what it is. Most of that is thanks to Craig. I find there's many Bond films that can be perceived as a let down at the time (especially coming off of Casino Royale) but that age decently as part of the series as a whole.

I like SPECTRE more than most people but it too suffered the letdown after Skyfall. The climax is boring, I don't like that they shoehorned Silva into the SPECTRE/Quantum plot, and Hinx is underused. However, when it's on - it's on. The Mr. White suicide is probably one of the best scenes in the series. What a welcome return and closure for the character. The PTS is a treat. Bond and Madeleine at L'Americain. Good stuff. The subtle nods to every previous SPECTRE film are fun too.

[DieselDaisy]

They do like to give Craig's Bond the full treatment. Betrayed by the love of his life who subsequently is killed. Accidentally nearly killed by his own people and ends up a washed-up drunk. Comes out of retirement and watches M die (or fails to save her). Finds out his main nemesis has been his brother or some bollocks. Seemingly betrayed again in this new film. Looks like he has been replaced by a woke agent also.

Craig's Bond is certainly the unhappiest Bond, not without reason. 

[James Bond]

Brosnan and Connery must be as bitter as Craig's Bond. Craig himself having the co-producer status Connery demanded, and the storylines Brosnan could only dream of.

[Powerage5]

16 hours ago, James Bond said:

Overall - loved it, but I can see why it's very uneven for most fans. It's almost like every other film has been a knockout. Casino Royale was on another level, and Skyfall was the biggest crowd pleaser of a Bond film since the Connery era just in terms of sheer praise and numbers.

Then there's the other two.

I've come around on Quantum. Why Sony didn't push the release date back a full year I'll never know, but despite the production problems, I enjoy it for what it is. Most of that is thanks to Craig. I find there's many Bond films that can be perceived as a let down at the time (especially coming off of Casino Royale) but that age decently as part of the series as a whole.

I like SPECTRE more than most people but it too suffered the letdown after Skyfall. The climax is boring, I don't like that they shoehorned Silva into the SPECTRE/Quantum plot, and Hinx is underused. However, when it's on - it's on. The Mr. White suicide is probably one of the best scenes in the series. What a welcome return and closure for the character. The PTS is a treat. Bond and Madeleine at L'Americain. Good stuff. The subtle nods to every previous SPECTRE film are fun too.

I agree on the merits of the lesser two Craig films. I consider QOS the weakest of his run so far, but that's really not saying much. As it stands it's a solid, fast-paced action film but it doesn't quite nail the Bond feel. As the shortest film in the franchise, it's ironically the one Craig film that could've benefitted from a delay but didn't get one. As for SPECTRE, I find it incredibly pleasing, albeit flawed. The romance plot with Swann and the third act were both rushed, the Silva shoehorn was unnecessary, and the Austin Powers twist was stupid (Though not enough to completely ruin the film for me as it does for so many others). But there's so much that it nails - the PTS, the casting, the locations, the balance between the gritty and the lighthearted. I really do believe that Christoph Waltz was an excellent choice to play Blofeld, and I hope his role in NTTD, however limited, shows that more. 

 

All in all the Craig run is my favorite. OHMSS is one of my absolute favorite Bond films but you can't really judge the Lazenby run since it was one film. And Dalton is my second favorite, but again it's incredibly hard to compare his short two-film stint to Craig's soon-to-be five-film stint. Had Dalton had a longer tenure, I imagine that era could've been my favorite. 

[DieselDaisy]

Spectre lost itself in retconned implausibility. 

[action]

I kind of prefer the 60's bonds, because bond was outrageously sexist in those movies. I appreciate them, from a kind of "observers" perspective, I can't exactly explain it.

Like how some people love watching slasher movies, with grueling horror on display, chainsaws and all, it doesn't make them psychopaths themselves. My sister is this sweet innocent looking girl, and she loves watching slasher movies, the rawer the better.

So when I prefer "sexist" bond, I'm kind of in that same mindset.

I hate sexists with a passion, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate a movie depicting it. If only to reinforce the notion that sexists are absolute twats, but bond makes it look funny.

All of that, is lost in recent bond movies. So they don't have much appeal to me.

Edited March 8, 2020 by action

[Dazey]

6 hours ago, Powerage5 said:

I agree on the merits of the lesser two Craig films. I consider QOS the weakest of his run so far, but that's really not saying much. As it stands it's a solid, fast-paced action film but it doesn't quite nail the Bond feel. As the shortest film in the franchise, it's ironically the one Craig film that could've benefitted from a delay but didn't get one. As for SPECTRE, I find it incredibly pleasing, albeit flawed. The romance plot with Swann and the third act were both rushed, the Silva shoehorn was unnecessary, and the Austin Powers twist was stupid (Though not enough to completely ruin the film for me as it does for so many others). But there's so much that it nails - the PTS, the casting, the locations, the balance between the gritty and the lighthearted. I really do believe that Christoph Waltz was an excellent choice to play Blofeld, and I hope his role in NTTD, however limited, shows that more. 

 

All in all the Craig run is my favorite. OHMSS is one of my absolute favorite Bond films but you can't really judge the Lazenby run since it was one film. And Dalton is my second favorite, but again it's incredibly hard to compare his short two-film stint to Craig's soon-to-be five-film stint. Had Dalton had a longer tenure, I imagine that era could've been my favorite. 

Love the Dalton movies. The second wasn’t really a Bond film but Living Daylights was amazing. 
Fun Bond fact. Licence to Kill was originally to be called Licence Revoked but they thought not enough Americans would know what revoked meant so they changed it.  

[DieselDaisy]

And they had to re-title all the advertising and merchandising losing a ton of money.

Dalton is the closest to Fleming's Bond I feel, played straight and serious. 

[PatrickS77]

On 8.3.2020 at 6:06 AM, Powerage5 said:

OHMSS is one of my absolute favorite Bond films but you can't really judge the Lazenby run since it was one film.

OHMSS definitely is the best. Both the movie and the book. The only flaw the movie has is that they shot it out of order and unlike in the book, it wasn't the first time Bond and Blofeld met, so that screws things a bit up, if you watch it as part of the series. A couple of years ago, I visited Piz Gloria and Lauterbrunnen and it was simply breathtaking.

Edited March 10, 2020 by PatrickS77

[PatrickS77]

On 8.3.2020 at 11:44 AM, action said:

I kind of prefer the 60's bonds, because bond was outrageously sexist in those movies. I appreciate them, from a kind of "observers" perspective, I can't exactly explain it.

I love how those movies are always a reflection of the times they were made in. So you really can see the reflection of half a century in those movies. So, all of them have something going for them. That's amazing.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Lazenby was objectively wooden in OHMSS. It wasn't enough to keep me from enjoying the film though. He was very convincing in the fight scenes because he trained in martial arts. He was actually offered a 7 film contract but he got into LSD and pot and his manager told him Bond won't last in the 70's so he quit the role. It was the dumbest move of his life. He allegedly slept with a lot of the former Bond girls....past their prime. He did get in bed with Diana Rigg which explains why they had some chemistry on screen. 

 

In short, he was far too immature for the role. 

[Georgy Zhukov]

Just watched Becoming Bond on Hulu. George Lazenby tells his life story up to the point he did OHMSS and the fallout of his turning down the 7 picture deal. As he remembers it. It is quite a story. The way he tells it he walked away because he felt that while he was under contract he wouldn't be himself but just be James Bond and he felt he couldn't live like that. He became the butt of many jokes, been told numerous times that it was the worse decision he ever made. But you know he is 80 now and living comfortably. Found money in real-estate. All in all not a bad life. Better than most of ours.

[DieselDaisy]

And he basically bragged his way into the role. 

[Georgy Zhukov]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

And he basically bragged his way into the role. 

Bullshit his way. He said he did films in Hungary, China and the Soviet Union. Peter Hunt was impressed how he fooled Harry Salzman to thinking he was an actor he was determined to make him Bond. 

Supposedly what finally won over Saltzman that he knocked out this tough British stuntman during a screen test.

[James Bond]

I like Lazenby a lot as a person. I find he's also more or less become the former Bond ambassador for the franchise after Roger Moore passed away. Always speaking highly, promoting current Bond films and events, reflecting fondly, etc...

[Georgy Zhukov]

2 hours ago, James Bond said:

I like Lazenby a lot as a person. I find he's also more or less become the former Bond ambassador for the franchise after Roger Moore passed away. Always speaking highly, promoting current Bond films and events, reflecting fondly, etc...

He and Moore used to email each other jokes. He comes off someone who kind of regrets doing Bond, especially since it meant not being with a woman he was in love with at the time. 

[Powerage5]

4 hours ago, James Bond said:

I like Lazenby a lot as a person. I find he's also more or less become the former Bond ambassador for the franchise after Roger Moore passed away. Always speaking highly, promoting current Bond films and events, reflecting fondly, etc...

That's a trait that I wish more former Bond actors had, so many of them seem almost ashamed or embarrassed they took the role, they try to distance themselves from it as far as possible. I get that with Connery there was a lot of animosity between Sean and Cubby, but besides that there's been no major falling outs. So why do they all try to distance themselves so far from the franchise?

[Georgy Zhukov]

36 minutes ago, Powerage5 said:

That's a trait that I wish more former Bond actors had, so many of them seem almost ashamed or embarrassed they took the role, they try to distance themselves from it as far as possible. I get that with Connery there was a lot of animosity between Sean and Cubby, but besides that there's been no major falling outs. So why do they all try to distance themselves so far from the franchise?

It is a sensitive issue for Brosnan too because was tossed away like some used condom. A role he wanted to get since 1985. Only to have it taken away from him after four films.