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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story **SPOILERS**

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Nicklord    266
5 hours ago, downzy said:

I think more than anything, the dialogue is what kills the prequels for me.  Not just the delivery, but the lines themselves.  It's as if Lucas never wrote any of the Indiana Jones movies and hadn't written a word since ROTJ.  Plus, it didn't help he cast some truly tone deaf actors to play Anakin.  Even Natalie Portman was pretty flat in all three movies.  

Yeah, he is bad at Anakin role but I can't possibly imagine a good delivery of: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." and some other great lines :lol: 

Edited by Nicklord

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DR DOOM    2,707

Not the Anakin Skywalker I imagined (from the very brief description of him in ROTJ) as a kid in the 80's, no sir.

 

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James Bond    3,462
10 hours ago, downzy said:

I think more than anything, the dialogue is what kills the prequels for me.  Not just the delivery, but the lines themselves.  It's as if Lucas never wrote any of the Indiana Jones movies and hadn't written a word since ROTJ.  Plus, it didn't help he cast some truly tone deaf actors to play Anakin.  Even Natalie Portman was pretty flat in all three movies.  

I definitely blame the directing more than the actors. Hayden Christensen is fine whenever he's allowed to act with his expressions but those lines he had to deliver...

Even Samuel L. Jackson had some flat delivery and he's a terrific talent. It's as if George Lucas told everybody to be as robotic as possible.

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Powerage5    4,360
On 1/11/2017 at 11:51 AM, James Bond said:

I definitely blame the directing more than the actors. Hayden Christensen is fine whenever he's allowed to act with his expressions but those lines he had to deliver...

Even Samuel L. Jackson had some flat delivery and he's a terrific talent. It's as if George Lucas told everybody to be as robotic as possible.

Ewan is the only one who turned in good performances. 

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James Bond    3,462
8 hours ago, Powerage5 said:

Ewan is the only one who turned in good performances. 

I agree 100%. He's the highlight of the prequels, and you easily believe he's the same Obi-Wan we meet in A New Hope.

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MrPoe    220

Anakin should have been completely opposite how he was portrayed in AOTC. The way Vader presents himself so formally would suggest that he is a very devout believer in the Force. He wouldn't be so goofy around Amidala and would probably distance himself from her. It would have to be Amilala that would persue Anakin, not the other way around.
 

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Lies They Tell    787

Rogue One was definitely better than The Force Awakens. I'd rank all the Star Wars movies in this order:

1. The Empire Strikes Back

2. A New Hope

3. Return Of The Jedi

4. Rogue One

5. Revenge Of The Sith

6. The Force Awakens

7. Attack Of The Clones

8. The Phantom Menace

Not 100% sure which one I truly prefer more RO or ROTS, but currently I prefer them in this order.

About the music of Rogue One, I was positively surprised. Dunno what other people were expecting? John Williams quality music? That's not gonna happen. John Williams is irreplaceable. That being said, I think the guy who wrote the score to this film did the best you could humanly expect from him. It actually sounded like a poor mans John Williams score, and that's a compliment. Seriously what more could you ask? People like John Williams are born once in a century. You can't expect Star Wars to sound nearly as good without him.

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Dazey    4,249

I'd rank them all in this order. 

1. Empire

2. New Hope

3. Jedi

4. Rogue 1/Force Awakens

5. Phantom Menace 

Edited by Dazey

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James Bond    3,462
33 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

Rogue One was definitely better than The Force Awakens. I'd rank all the Star Wars movies in this order:

1. The Empire Strikes Back

2. A New Hope

3. Return Of The Jedi

4. Rogue One

5. Revenge Of The Sith

6. The Force Awakens

7. Attack Of The Clones

8. The Phantom Menace

Not 100% sure which one I truly prefer more RO or ROTS, but currently I prefer them in this order.

About the music of Rogue One, I was positively surprised. Dunno what other people were expecting? John Williams quality music? That's not gonna happen. John Williams is irreplaceable. That being said, I think the guy who wrote the score to this film did the best you could humanly expect from him. It actually sounded like a poor mans John Williams score, and that's a compliment. Seriously what more could you ask? People like John Williams are born once in a century. You can't expect Star Wars to sound nearly as good without him.

The "poor man's John Williams" in this case was a detriment to the score. It just didn't have much Star Wars feeling or any memorable new themes, and that's just not for a lack of John Williams. That said, I have since learned that Michael Giacchino was a last minute replacement when Alexandre Desplat became unavailable and therefore only had a month to do the entire score. Fair enough - it gets a pass. Still, I'm a big fan of Giacchino's work but he fell short here for me.

I feel the same way about the score as I did the characters - the only memorable bits were pre-existing. :lol:

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Lies They Tell    787
10 minutes ago, James Bond said:

The "poor man's John Williams" in this case was a detriment to the score. It just didn't have much Star Wars feeling or any memorable new themes, and that's just not for a lack of John Williams. That said, I have since learned that Michael Giacchino was a last minute replacement when Alexandre Desplat became unavailable and therefore only had a month to do the entire score. Fair enough - it gets a pass. Still, I'm a big fan of Giacchino's work but he fell short here for me.

I feel the same way about the score as I did the characters - the only memorable bits were pre-existing. :lol:

I though the movie had a couple of OK tunes, like for example "He's Here For Us" and "When Has Become Now". That's much more than I dared to hope for. I mean that's almost as good as John Williams at his worst. I'm talking about The Force Awakens, which didn't really have many memorable tunes either. "Rey's Theme" and "The Jedi Steps" were really the only theme's that stood out. Granted The Jedi Steps actually had huge potential, but it wasn't really even a complete song. I think we'll hear a much more complete version of it in the future films.

Anyway I though Giacchino used some of the old themes cleverly. I liked how he managed to use both of Darth Vader's themes. The Darth Vader theme from A New Hope was used when we first saw him in the bacta tank and then the legendary Imperial March was used when we finally saw him in his suit.

And personally I though his score captured the Star Wars feeling much better than you really could have hoped for. Sometimes it sounded almost too safe, like he was ripping off John Williams. But overall he did a pretty good job. Especially considering the short time frame he had.

 

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James Bond    3,462
2 hours ago, Lies They Tell said:

I though the movie had a couple of OK tunes, like for example "He's Here For Us" and "When Has Become Now". That's much more than I dared to hope for. I mean that's almost as good as John Williams at his worst. I'm talking about The Force Awakens, which didn't really have many memorable tunes either. "Rey's Theme" and "The Jedi Steps" were really the only theme's that stood out. Granted The Jedi Steps actually had huge potential, but it wasn't really even a complete song. I think we'll hear a much more complete version of it in the future films.

Anyway I though Giacchino used some of the old themes cleverly. I liked how he managed to use both of Darth Vader's themes. The Darth Vader theme from A New Hope was used when we first saw him in the bacta tank and then the legendary Imperial March was used when we finally saw him in his suit.

And personally I though his score captured the Star Wars feeling much better than you really could have hoped for. Sometimes it sounded almost too safe, like he was ripping off John Williams. But overall he did a pretty good job. Especially considering the short time frame he had.

 

I definitely agree with you on the way he integrated the old themes - whenever Giacchino scores an existing franchise he seems to be very good at that. Definitely among the highlights of the score. Maybe the time crunch just took its toll on his open creativity and he played it very safe.

I also don't disagree that the new Williams material in TFA was super memorable either, but I guess the benefit of the main stories is that he's already established a great framework of themes and motifs to work with. It was an exciting score even if not entirely new. The guy is a legend though - 84 and still turning out top notch work.

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Powerage5    4,360
18 hours ago, Dazey said:

I'd rank them all in this order. 

1. Empire

2. New Hope

3. Jedi

4. Rogue 1/Force Awakens

5. Phantom Menace 

You're missing a couple there :tongue2:

 

My ranking:
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Rogue One
3. A New Hope
4. Revenge Of The Sith
5. The Force Awakens
6. Return Of The Jedi
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Attack Of The Clones

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Daedalus    188
On 15. 1. 2017 at 5:11 PM, MrPoe said:

Anakin should have been completely opposite how he was portrayed in AOTC. The way Vader presents himself so formally would suggest that he is a very devout believer in the Force. He wouldn't be so goofy around Amidala and would probably distance himself from her. It would have to be Amilala that would persue Anakin, not the other way around.
 

Yeah, Hayden Christensen was far from the Vader. My image of Anakin was completely shattered when I first saw AOTC. It was everything... he isn't so tall, his vocabulary didn't fit, the way he talked was so un-Vaderish, his walk wasn't right, etc. I've always thought Anakin to be a bit more distant (not so emotional or at least not so childish regardless of his age). And Jake Lloyd was even worse.

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James Bond    3,462

I have to admit that Jedi is probably my favorite to watch for its feel good factor (matched closely now by Force Awakens), but ranking from best film to worst for me would probably be something like this:

1. Empire

2. Force Awakens / Jedi (I honestly can't decide)

3. New Hope

4. Rogue One

5. Sith

...

47. Clones

....

109 375. The Phantom Menace

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DieselDaisy    9,240

How can anyone like the two new one above the original trilogy? That is madness.

I would go,

1. Empire

2. Star Wars

3. Jedi

4. Rogue One

(big drop off in quality)

5. The Phantom Menace

6. Sith

7. Attack of the Clones

8. Force Awakens

 

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James Bond    3,462
3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

How can anyone like the two new one above the original trilogy? That is madness.

I would go,

1. Empire

2. Star Wars

3. Jedi

4. Rogue One

(big drop off in quality)

5. The Phantom Menace

6. Sith

7. Attack of the Clones

8. Force Awakens

 

Madness is putting TFA beneath the prequels. ;)

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DieselDaisy    9,240
1 minute ago, James Bond said:

Madness is putting TFA beneath the prequels. ;)

They all stink - let's get this straight. 5-8 on my list basically are equally rancid: putrid excrement of the highest order. But at least the prequels tried to do something new however much it failed rather than do a Macdonald's beat-for-beat reboot of the original film.

I truly loathed The Force Awakens - I'm sorry. It sort of epitomises everything that is wrong with American cinema right now, i.e. a complete absence of original ideas.

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James Bond    3,462
10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

They all stink - let's get this straight. 5-8 on my list basically are equally rancid: putrid excrement of the highest order. But at least the prequels tried to do something new however much it failed rather than do a Macdonald's beat-for-beat reboot of the original film.

I truly loathed The Force Awakens - I'm sorry. It sort of epitomises everything that is wrong with American cinema right now, i.e. a complete absence of original ideas.

I definitely understand people not liking TFA for that very reason, but I honestly think that with Disney's investment into the franchise that they thought it best to play it safe. It's not an original film but it at least had a clean execution and a great introduction to new characters. The prequels were sort of the opposite - original ideas, sure, but with poor execution. TFA is very safe in that regard.

I give TFA a pass - the new characters are great and it's a whole lot of fun. It at least hit the enjoyment factor of the originals and I definitely find it's fast pace to put it on par with ROTJ as far as my enjoyment goes. Now if Episode VIII ends up being a loose female of TESB then we'll certainly be able to re-open the argument. I have faith in the hopeful originality of it now that the new characters are introduced and Disney has had two hits.

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Nicklord    266
1 minute ago, James Bond said:

I definitely understand people not liking TFA for that very reason, but I honestly think that with Disney's investment into the franchise that they thought it best to play it safe. It's not an original film but it at least had a clean execution and a great introduction to new characters. The prequels were sort of the opposite - original ideas, sure, but with poor execution. TFA is very safe in that regard.

I give TFA a pass - the new characters are great and it's a whole lot of fun. It at least hit the enjoyment factor of the originals and I definitely find it's fast pace to put it on par with ROTJ as far as my enjoyment goes. Now if Episode VIII ends up being a loose female of TESB then we'll certainly be able to re-open the argument. I have faith in the hopeful originality of it now that the new characters are introduced and Disney has had two hits.

TFA is probably the first Star Wars film where I literally got nervous by watching it. It's not that it's just not original story which is a sin alone, it's an assault to common sense from the Starkiller base to cleaner who know the deepest secret (or what should be one as we saw in Rogue One) and maps to living human beings. Really bad copy of A New Hope 

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James Bond    3,462
1 hour ago, Nicklord said:

TFA is probably the first Star Wars film where I literally got nervous by watching it. It's not that it's just not original story which is a sin alone, it's an assault to common sense from the Starkiller base to cleaner who know the deepest secret (or what should be one as we saw in Rogue One) and maps to living human beings. Really bad copy of A New Hope 

The map thing didn't bother me - it's basically a glorified MacGuffin. It's not like the original trilogy was without its plot holes or silliness.

The Starkiller Base was the only part where I went "okay, that's a little too similar..." but otherwise I thought it was nice that they didn't take the "dark and gritty" route that every other rebootquel seems to take these days. It was lighthearted and fun, and hey - even the best of ideas in the original trilogy were borrowed from somewhere. It was Lucas paying tribute/homage to the films he enjoyed. That's where I feel like The Force Awakens comes in - it's a tribute to the original trilogy and made entirely for fan service. That said, I agree that maybe overall it leans a little too heavily on A New Hope in particular, but as I've mentioned before I'm okay with that as long as VIII takes the groundwork and propels the series forward.

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DR DOOM    2,707

After seeing The Force Awakens I just wished they'd have left the Star Wars "saga" story (I mean Luke, Leia, Han etc) alone.

I know Ford wanted to be bumped off in Jedi, but to bring him back after all this time just to bump him off (with minimal buildup or anything) fucking sucked.

What was that shit with the pirates and monsters?

TFA reminds me of Alien Resurrection in a lot of ways.

I know in 1977 nobody had any idea what any of the stuff they talked about in Star Wars was (Clone Wars?), it could be considered gibberish and you could argue the same for this movie (how we have no idea about who Rey etc are yadada) but...

I 'just figure I'm not "the target demographic" for this shit anymore, despite being an 80's kid and loving Star Wars.

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rocknroll41    456

i think the reason they retreaded all of the setting and plot beats of the original film in Tfa was cause they were trying to turn the whole "fandom" thing into a metaphor. Like saying "we honor the past." This can also be seen through the characters, like how kylo Ren is basically a Darth vader "cosplayer" and how the first order are basically empire "fanboys." Also rey and finn perceiving luke and han as though they were myths and legends is supposed to be a metaphor for how we as fans look at them like they're "legends." Thats why the settings and plot points are "cosplaying" as the original film. Get it? It's all an extension of the same metaphor.

with that being said, I still think abrams and his team failed at what they were trying to do. If they had handled that whole metaphor thing well, we all wouldn't still be complaining about the "unoriginality" thing over a year later. They really shoulda just done a whole new setting and plot, but the prequels did that and those failed, which is why abrams and co had to make the setting and plot beats the same and switch up the character archetypes instead. They were kinda fucked either way. Episode 7 woulda never been all that good no matter what. But i still like it better than rogue one. I'm not really sure why...rogue one just feels kinda "lifeless" to me for some strange reason.

anyway, on with the ranking:

1. The Empire Strikes Back (perfect)

2. Star Wars (great)

3.Return of the Jedi (good)

4.The Force Awakens (okay)

5.Rogue One (decent)

6.Revenge of the Sith (mediocre)

7.The Phantom Menace (boring)

8.Attack of the Clones (garbage)

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