Our Interview with Marc Canter - Talking Reunion, Axl Relationship & Old Days!

[killuridols]

1 minute ago, Ratam said:

Te agradezco tu explicacion a @PatrickS77✊

You could start using 'that' instead of 'what'. That's basically what's confusing people here.

https://es.duolingo.com/comment/17597628/cual-es-la-diferencia-entre-what-y-that

[StrangerInThisTown]

1 hour ago, PatrickS77 said:

I'm not sure I would need to add that. I mean, from the band's point of view, how does him taking pictures and recording shows make him important for the band?? I think he's more important from the fans point of view than from the band's.

That's why I asked in what way you meant important, but you choose to not answer that for whatever reason, and just went on about the time. What you said was he is not important, which means whatsoever, from any perspective, and I corrected you on that since he is extremely important to the history of the band since he documented it all and had a friendly connection to every one of them during the inception up until they exploded. If it weren't for him there wouldn't be any or very little footage and documentation of that 85-87 era of GNR before everyone else caught onto them.

Edited December 4, 2017 by StrangerInThisTown

[Ratam]

6 minutes ago, killuridols said:

You could start using 'that' instead of 'what'. That's basically what's confusing people here.

https://es.duolingo.com/comment/17597628/cual-es-la-diferencia-entre-what-y-that

Gracias acepto tu consejo 😊

[Ratam]

5 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Llamaste a las Tortugas ninja adolescentes "Tortoise Ninjas", para mi gran diversion y me rei.

Si,entre tu y @Janerichmond nos divertimos muco por esa confusion, y de alli salio mi profile of pic, y todo por culpa de Axl ,que encambio de ir al  show se quedo mirando en TV. "The tortoise Ninja" yo no se si eso fue verdad, pero fue muy divertido 😆

[killuridols]

[Blackstar]

2 hours ago, Tori72 said:

I also was wondering why Marc said that. I also think its odd that Marc, who is something like a superfan and wanted this reunion/threeunion so much, wouldn't go to the first Troubadour show in 2016. I wonder what went down there.

I think Marc has explained it. He said he didn't want to go because he hadn't made amends with Axl yet. I hope he has now.

2 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Sorry. But that's bs. Once contracts are signed and you can believe that there have been shitloads of waterproof contracts signed, they wouldn't have to deal with anyone of TB if they didn't want to and didn't like them. I think the importance of TB is greatly overestimated. Once Duff and Axl was talking it was over, as far as any real influence and prevention of this to happen was concerned.

Yes, of course there are contracts, but contracts don't cover every detail or the tour routine. They've had to deal with TB, since these people handle Axl's affairs, they are backstage etc. Moreover, as much as it is business, a level of good relationship is necessary (it doesn't have to be a "best buddies" level) for a tour of this magnitude to go well. I believe both sides have made efforts towards that and Slash/Duff being friendly to Axl's chosen family has been part of it.; and, to reverse your argument, it doesn't cost them anything.

In my opinion the truth about TB lies somewhere in the middle. I don't believe that they've been handling Axl like a puppet; they basically got along with his wishes, but there are examples of them making decisions on his behalf for his "protection". Axl is likely emotionally dependent on them, Beta mainly, and it seems that he's convinced that they really care for him and his best interest (unlike the professional managers he had, whom he suspected or really found out that they had their own agendas); so, even when they screw up, he doesn't think that they have bad intentions and accepts them doing things that he wouldn't tolerate from anyone else.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Blackstar

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, PatrickS77 said:

I'm not sure I would need to add that. I mean, from the band's point of view, how does him taking pictures and recording shows make him important for the band?? I think he's more important from the fans point of view than from the band's.

He was important for the band because he supported them in many ways. He gave them food, money and even jobs when they lived from hand to mouth. Taking pictures and record all kind of stuff is more important for us fans but I think they recognized there is somebody out there, who's believing in what they do.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Free Bird

[Tori72]

9 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I think Marc has explained it. He said he didn't want to go because he hadn't made amends with Axl yet. I hope he has now.

 

Do you think so? I would think making amend could start with visiting THE reunion show in the club it all started in. The very first show. I don't know, I'm in super suspicious mood of Marc right now.  Like he's a show-off and fanboy and stepping out of his line.

By the way, did the other guys, Slash and Duff mostly, but also Steven, take part in his book? We know that Izzy headed out before he got started and probably Marc never talked to Axl?

[Blackstar]

15 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

By the way, did the other guys, Slash and Duff mostly, but also Steven, take part in his book? We know that Izzy headed out before he got started and probably Marc never talked to Axl?

Yes, they did take part. All three of them prefaced it too.

[Free Bird]

11 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I think Marc has explained it. He said he didn't want to go because he hadn't made amends with Axl yet. I hope he has now.

Yes, of course there are contracts, but contracts don't cover every detail or the tour routine. They've had to deal with TB, since these people handle Axl's affairs, they are backstage etc. Moreover, as much as it is business, a level of good relationship is necessary (it doesn't have to be a "best buddies" level) for a tour of this magnitude to go well. I believe both sides have made efforts towards that and Slash/Duff being friendly to Axl's chosen family has been part of it.; and, to reverse your argument, it doesn't cost them anything.

In my opinion the truth about TB lies somewhere in the middle. I don't believe that they've been handling him like a puppet; they basically got along with his wishes, but there are examples of them making decisions on his behalf for his "protection". Axl is likely emotionally dependent on them, Beta mainly, and it seems that he's convinced that they really care for him and his best interest (unlike the professional managers he had, whom he suspected or really found out that they had their own agendas); so, even when they screw up, he doesn't think that they have bad intentions and he tolerates things from them that he wouldn't from anyone else.

Whatever happened in the past, I think they didn't know each other, other than by hearsay. At the latest when Axl invited Slash for dinner and they get to know each other personaly (TB and Slash) there's no need to act disrespectful to one another. They're mature people and that's the way they should behave. Most likely it's professionalism, not a new friendship.

[Free Bird]

18 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Do you think so? I would think making amend could start with visiting THE reunion show in the club it all started in. The very first show. I don't know, I'm in super suspicious mood of Marc right now.  Like he's a show-off and fanboy and stepping out of his line.

By the way, did the other guys, Slash and Duff mostly, but also Steven, take part in his book? We know that Izzy headed out before he got started and probably Marc never talked to Axl?

But it's not up to Marc. It's up to Axl. It may have been an opportunity for Marc  to met Axl to talk to him in the Troubadour but I don't know if it's a good idea to confronting Axl before a gig. Now imagine Axl stops the reunion before it even started and you know it's your fault by bringing Axl's mood down 

[RONIN]

5 hours ago, Top-Hatted One said:

Ronin is right as this dates back to VR circa 2007. Scott said the GNR guys were trying to get Guns back together either before or after they released Libertad. Probably before as that album was rushed out due to label obligations. That's when Scott started looking into getting STP back together.

plus the time when Slash went to Axls house and wasn't allowed past the security gate.

That little stunt from Slash caused a lot of turmoil in Velvet Revolver since Perla was pushing hard for Slash to get back in Guns.

From what I remember, didn't Slash actually have a conversation with Beta that night? 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

13 minutes ago, RONIN said:

That little stunt from Slash caused a lot of turmoil in Velvet Revolver since Perla was pushing hard for Slash to get back in Guns.

From what I remember, didn't Slash actually have a conversation with Beta that night? 

He passed her a note, or he passed the note on to someone who gave it to her.  On the note was 'Axl call me so we can settle this' or something like that - think he specifies in his book exactly what.  He claims he was drunk and Perla was driving.  Axl, in his open letter, claimed that he was sober and that he called Duff spineless, Scott a fraud, some other derogatory names about the band, and that over the years Axl had proven himself the stronger one = take me back! lol ...I'm paraphrasing but it went something like that. I actually can believe Slash saying all those things. 

[RONIN]

9 hours ago, WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself said:

Foo Fighters played Paradise City at their show after Grohl's appearance. Grohl had attended the first Las Vegas gig and other FF guys have seen GNR shows as well.

Grohl and Slash are friends and have also cooperated musically. Duff has played together with Novoselic (even SCOM). I don't think Duff is not respected or acknowledged by them and trying desperately to do so. He just had fun on stage with Grohl...

Did not know that about Foo Fighters playing paradise city at the end of a show, thanks for the heads up, I stand corrected on that point. Grohl has always been a closet GnR/Axl fan, he was backstage at the Rio 2001 show along with the Gallagher brothers.

I'm not saying that Duff isn't respected or acknowledged by them (he is and should be) - I'm saying he's more invested in getting their approval than the other way around. I'm saying he's more opportunistic - a real fence rider. Or as Slash allegedly put it, "spineless". Just my opinion, but I've always felt Duff plays up his friendship with those guys more than any of the other parties. Slash is also friends with the some of the big alternative icons like Cornell and Grohl but does not feel the need to bring it up as much as Duff. Read any interview that Grohl and Novoselic have done where they talk about Guns/Duff and compare that to a Duff interview where he talks about those guys - it's pretty obvious (to me at least) who is more invested in the relationship. It's almost like he has a bit of buyers remorse about choosing to be in Guns over staying in Seattle and possibly being in Soundgarden.

There's a blog post where he apologizes to Krist about his role in the infamous 92 VMAs. That's a cool gesture. The problem is he twists facts in that post to absolve the nirvana guys of their own role in the feud. Yes, Duff acted poorly to Krist at the VMAs - but Nirvana slagged off the band and were talking shit about them non-stop prior to the confrontation. It's admirable to take responsibility for your role in a conflict - it's something else when you're making a false equivalency to get the other guy off the hook. He does the same thing with Axl in his lame ass book. Why did he do that? Either he's taking the high road or he's extremely savvy and  played the long game by doing some great PR to burnish those relationships (gestures which have paid off handsomely now). Given his behavior with Izzy, I'm inclined to believe the latter. Call me cynical.

I used to think he was the most levelheaded and neutral of all the GnR members but it seems clear to me that Duff from 85-2002 was a different guy from when VR became successful. I think his business acumen really took root at that point. Again, only my opinion, but over the years, reading some of Duff's interviews and his constant name-dropping of his punk rock buddies - it seems to be a concerted effort on his part to associate his brand with the grunge era bands. And for good reason. For the last 23 years, GnR has been diminished by the press in order to pedestalize the alternative movement. Duff would be a fool not to publicize his punk background more often. 

IMHO, if you want the truth about how Duff really felt about GnR's demise, his real thoughts about Axl, the most revealing interviews are from '99-2002. '02 in particular has some gems, one of which I'll post soon when I get time.

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Tori72 said:

Do you think so? I would think making amend could start with visiting THE reunion show in the club it all started in. The very first show. I don't know, I'm in super suspicious mood of Marc right now.  Like he's a show-off and fanboy and stepping out of his line.

By the way, did the other guys, Slash and Duff mostly, but also Steven, take part in his book? We know that Izzy headed out before he got started and probably Marc never talked to Axl?

Probably in his mind, Axl has made amends with Marc as well but there is always TB, the filter, and they wouldn't let Marc in for fear of having Axl freaking out before the show and ruining the whole tour.

Most people that they know Axl had a feud or problem in the past with have not been able to talk to him, unless someone else built a bridge between Axl and them.

[RONIN]

21 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

He passed her a note, or he passed the note on to someone who gave it to her.  On the note was 'Axl call me so we can settle this' or something like that - think he specifies in his book exactly what.  He claims he was drunk and Perla was driving.  Axl, in his open letter, claimed that he was sober and that he called Duff spineless, Scott a fraud, some other derogatory names about the band, and that over the years Axl had proven himself the stronger one = take me back! lol ...I'm paraphrasing but it went something like that. I actually can believe Slash saying all those things. 

Ahh yeah - that was it. Your memory is better than mine!

[Blackstar]

Beta had confirmed that it was her Slash had talked to that night (and then Slash said so too).

More about the Slash-Night-Visit story, with links:

 

[WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself]

42 minutes ago, RONIN said:

I'm not saying that Duff isn't respected or acknowledged by them (he is and should be) - I'm saying he's more invested in getting their approval than the other way around. I'm saying he's more opportunistic - a real fence rider. Or as Slash allegedly put it, "spineless". Just my opinion, but I've always felt Duff plays up his friendship with those guys more than any of the other parties. Slash is also friends with the some of the big alternative icons like Cornell and Grohl but does not feel the need to bring it up as much as Duff.

Probably Duff feels that he comes way after Axl and Slash in the GnR world, that the casual fans don't know or love him as much (which is true and quite natural). So, by running together with Grohl on the stage he 'targets' the fans, not Grohl.

 

But I can't blame him for trying to point out his presence a bit more. That doesn't mean that he has dark incentives or whatever. Everyone in that business wants to be as relevant as possible I suppose. 

 

53 minutes ago, RONIN said:

There's a blog post where he apologizes to Krist about his role in the infamous 92 VMAs. That's a cool gesture. The problem is he twists facts in that post to absolve the nirvana guys of their own role in the feud. Yes, Duff acted poorly to Krist at the VMAs - but Nirvana slagged off the band and were talking shit about them non-stop prior to the confrontation. It's admirable to take responsibility for your role in a conflict - it's something else when you're making a false equivalency to get the other guy off the hook.

Yeah, that's true and unfortunately Slash did the same thing.

In the same interview, Slash dished on a beef between one of his former bandmates and a another grunge icon -- that between Guns N' Roses singer Axl Rose and Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain. "Nirvana was great. I really, with all due respect to Kurt and Courtney and all that, there was some issues that happened having to do with Axl that I felt like they were totally right," Slash said, likely referring to the brief, yet nasty exchange at the 1992 MTV Music Awards.

 

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

IMHO, if you want the truth about how Duff really felt about GnR's demise, his real thoughts about Axl, the most revealing interviews are from '99-2002. '02 in particular has some gems, one of which I'll post soon when I get time.

I know but again I find it reasonable that he would change his view as the years went by. Even Axl mellowed.

 

[Blackstar]

4 hours ago, RONIN said:

I used to think he was the most levelheaded and neutral of all the GnR members but it seems clear to me that Duff from 85-2002 was a different guy from when VR became successful. I think his business acumen really took root at that point. Again, only my opinion, but over the years, reading some of Duff's interviews and his constant name-dropping of his punk rock buddies - it seems to be a concerted effort on his part to associate his brand with the grunge era bands. And for good reason. For the last 23 years, GnR has been diminished by the press in order to pedestalize the alternative movement. Duff would be a fool not to publicize his punk background more often. 

IMHO, if you want the truth about how Duff really felt about GnR's demise, his real thoughts about Axl, the most revealing interviews are from '99-2002. '02 in particular has some gems, one of which I'll post soon when I get time.

I think what a person says about something at a certain time, epresents how they feel about it at that time. Later they may say something different, because they have re-thought things and their feelings have changed. That doesn't make one version more real than the other (when it comes to thoughts/feelings, not facts of course); we just pick the one we like the most

 I don't have the impression that Duff has been showcasing his punk roots after 2002 more than he had before. He has played and has connections with a lot of people, not only from the ex-"alternative" scene. He has jammed with Sebastian Bach and he is friends with Nikki Sixx and Tommy Lee.

There is an amusing story in a book on the history of grunge:

Spoiler

TRACEY ROWLAND When the U-Men [80s garage band from Seattle] were in L.A. at the beginning of the tour, Larry couldn’t make it, so he talked me into going down—to keep ’em out of jail, I guess. [...] So the band, Mike T., Val, and me are all crammed into this Volkswagen Bug, and we pulled into this gas station to get gas, and we all piled out of this Volkswagen. And there’s Duff McKagan!

DUFF MCKAGAN I was coming home from work, and I ran into them. I was living in a cockroach-infested single-room apartment. L.A. at the time was Quiet Riot, Ratt, some really terrible bands. In L.A., Guns N’ Roses was considered a punk-rock band. We were huddled in this corner of Hollywood, snapping viciously at any gig we could get.

JOHN BIGLEY Tom goes, “That’s fucking Duff!” There’s this fuckin’ wanker wearing a bullet belt, with his pants tucked into his cowboy boots. His hair is all teased out and long and crazy. You know, Hollywood butt-rocker guy. “Duff, what’s goin’ on? Look at you, man!”

He goes, “Got this band goin’. It’s goin’ really well.”

“What’s it called?”

He sighs. “It’s the singer’s name …” He whispered it: “It’s called Guns N’ Roses.” Yeah, he was embarrassed. He used to be in a band called the Vains, man. Guns N’ Roses?! “The singer is calling himself Axl.”

Guns N’ Roses. Axl. We’re all laughin’. “Wow, how magnificent!” I go, “That sounds like fuckin’ shit. Good luck with that, you freak.” But he was super good-natured about it.

The band laughed about it for a couple of days. “Duff ’s doing metal!” Then, fuck, two years later: “Welcome to the jungle!”

Also there are a couple of quotes from Seattle musicians saying that when Duff left Seattle for LA he said he wanted to be a huge rockstar or to make it, but Duff denies ever saying that.

2 hours ago, WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself said:

Yeah, that's true and unfortunately Slash did the same thing.

In the same interview, Slash dished on a beef between one of his former bandmates and a another grunge icon -- that between Guns N' Roses singer Axl Rose and Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain. "Nirvana was great. I really, with all due respect to Kurt and Courtney and all that, there was some issues that happened having to do with Axl that I felt like they were totally right," Slash said, likely referring to the brief, yet nasty exchange at the 1992 MTV Music Awards.

There is something strange about this quote, its wording. Slash starts by saying "with all due respect...". I'm not a native speaker, but I'm under the impression that this expression is usually followed by a disagreement or some criticism. I'm thinking that maybe there was some mistake in the transcription. Unless what he wanted to say was "with all due respect, they were wrong in slamming all of us, it was all Axl's doing".

Edited December 5, 2017 by Blackstar

[DieselDaisy]

I miss the days of yore when McKagan and Slash used to pelt abuse at Rose every week in the pages of Kerrang and Hit Parader.

[Gabrielaerojas]

15 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

More often than not, people have some sort of agenda, even if it is just to appear to be more important than they actually are (in Canter's case)

That right there is everything and explains a lot in my humble opinion.

[Gabrielaerojas]

8 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Eres muy amable, amiga de mi tortuga!

Google N Roses de ahora en adelante para uds dos. 

[Gabrielaerojas]

For what it’s worth, these five pages of comments have enough material to record a podcast with all these theories, speculations or whatever you want to call it, after hearing the interview with Marc. The debate can go on for days and I bet the more we dig, they more we’ll find. Good material for a Behind the music: NITL . I work in TV so I immediately think in terms of creating a series or reality or something when I come accross these stories. 

[RONIN]

4 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I think what a person says about something at a certain time, epresents how they feel about it at that time. Later they may say something different, because they have re-thought things and their feelings have changed. That doesn't make one version more real than the other (when it comes to thoughts/feelings, not facts of course); we just pick the one we like the most

There is an amusing story in a book on the history of grunge:

  Reveal hidden contents

TRACEY ROWLAND When the U-Men [80s garage band from Seattle] were in L.A. at the beginning of the tour, Larry couldn’t make it, so he talked me into going down—to keep ’em out of jail, I guess. [...] So the band, Mike T., Val, and me are all crammed into this Volkswagen Bug, and we pulled into this gas station to get gas, and we all piled out of this Volkswagen. And there’s Duff McKagan!

DUFF MCKAGAN I was coming home from work, and I ran into them. I was living in a cockroach-infested single-room apartment. L.A. at the time was Quiet Riot, Ratt, some really terrible bands. In L.A., Guns N’ Roses was considered a punk-rock band. We were huddled in this corner of Hollywood, snapping viciously at any gig we could get.

JOHN BIGLEY Tom goes, “That’s fucking Duff!” There’s this fuckin’ wanker wearing a bullet belt, with his pants tucked into his cowboy boots. His hair is all teased out and long and crazy. You know, Hollywood butt-rocker guy. “Duff, what’s goin’ on? Look at you, man!”

He goes, “Got this band goin’. It’s goin’ really well.”

“What’s it called?”

He sighs. “It’s the singer’s name …” He whispered it: “It’s called Guns N’ Roses.” Yeah, he was embarrassed. He used to be in a band called the Vains, man. Guns N’ Roses?! “The singer is calling himself Axl.”

Guns N’ Roses. Axl. We’re all laughin’. “Wow, how magnificent!” I go, “That sounds like fuckin’ shit. Good luck with that, you freak.” But he was super good-natured about it.

The band laughed about it for a couple of days. “Duff ’s doing metal!” Then, fuck, two years later: “Welcome to the jungle!”

 

Oh Blackstar, always so levelheaded. Must you always be the voice of reason? Can't you just let me weave a great conspiracy story? 

In all seriousness, I agree with you that opinions change with time. But facts don't. I'm not suggesting that we only hold people to the opinions that we prefer. What I'm saying is that GnR members are less than open about the inner dynamics of the band. And in the rare times they do reveal things, they either walk it back later or misremember it entirely later on. Most of what we know about GnR, especially in the mid 90's, is from Slash's interviews. Nobody else talks. Duff in particular, is famously diplomatic - he will not reveal anything of substance. There are interviews of him in 1996 saying that everything is fine in the band, 2 months before Slash quit. He's not the guy to look to if you want an accurate picture of what was happening in either GnR or VR. 

The only time where he's inadvertently revealed information about what really happened in GnR was during the Live Era sessions up till Nu Guns' debut. I don't care if his opinions about Axl change - what I do care about is him revealing specific facts like Matt being fired because of criticizing Axl on delaying the album or clearing up discrepancies in Axl's '99 MTV interview. It also paints a clearer portrait of the evolution of their opinions and where they were at that moment in time. It makes it easier in some way to piece together certain events. There is so much crucial information from Duff's interviews in 1999 that sheds light on what all their personal relationships were like. Duff's interviews are given an added weight around this time because he was imho the most neutral member of the group along with Izzy back then. They say the truth is usually somewhere in the middle, and with old GnR, the truth can generally be pieced together from reading Izzy, Canter, and Duff's interviews. 

*Thanks for sending that story by the way - I vaguely remember reading it some years back. Fascinating stuff. 

Quote

 I don't have the impression that Duff has been showcasing his punk roots after 2002 more than he had before. He has played and has connections with a lot of people, not only from the ex-"alternative" scene. He has jammed with Sebastian Bach and he is friends with Nikki Sixx and Tommy Lee.

Well, opinions vary. He may have jammed with those guys like Bach and Tommy Lee - he has jammed with Steven Adler also, but who does he actually choose to work with on albums? Who does he name drop in interviews? Who did he select to be VR's singer? It doesn't seem far-fetched to suggest that he does not want to be lumped in with the hairmetal guys and feels kinship with the grunge era bands who get way more respect and artistic kudos from the press than GnR. How could he not have a complex about that given his Seattle roots and seeing GnR being painted as the antithesis of what 90's punk rock was about? 

 

Quote

There is something strange about this quote, its wording. Slash starts by saying "with all due respect...". I'm not a native speaker, but I'm under the impression that this expression is usually followed by a disagreement or some criticism. I'm thinking that maybe there was some mistake in the transcription. Unless what he wanted to say was "with all due respect, they were wrong in slamming all of us, it was all Axl's doing".

I think the intention is pretty clear. He thought Axl was deservedly called out and mocked by Courtney and Kurt. He's said similar things about James Hetfield's (legendary) comments on Axl. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by RONIN

[RONIN]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I miss the days of yore when McKagan and Slash used to pelt abuse at Rose every week in the pages of Kerrang and Hit Parader.

Agreed. I miss the days when Axl was everyone's favorite punching bag and Slash/Duff would give yearly proclamations of how important the original 5 members were to the integrity and success of GnR.