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Appetite For Destruction Remastered Audio Review (Audio Geek Stuff)

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Hey guys.... I'm not sure if there is a topic for this, but I'm an audio engineer and I've just purchased the 2 lp vinyl and downloaded the 16/44.1 CD audio from the download card. Generally the audio is not overly crunched, but is about 3+ DB louder.  Thus less dynamics. I still think the original CD is better despite the new transfer.  I'll same the same for the LP set.  Beautiful artwork, good pressing, nice poly sleeves, etc... but shrill, loud cut, lacking low end, and could have been that much better.  

I think the take away from this release is the demos and unreleased.  Thats something to be thankful for, though we all know it could have been more expansive.

I used the Mac program Audio Leak to check RMS volume.  For those who don't know what RMS is, I've included a tutorial link.  I'll setup a photo hosting site and send screenshots.  

http://www.channld.com/audioleak/

http://blog.fixyourmix.com/2009/an-explanation-of-the-loudness-wars-that-even-your-dad-will-understand/

Thanks guys...

Primo

 

 

 

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Excellent.  I was hoping for an expert view on the remasters.  I’m like someone who loves wine but the year or vineyard it comes from is lost on me.  Are you hearing sounds in it that were buried in the original mix?  Or are now more clear?  Is pro gear needed to hear a difference?

2 hours ago, PrimosPeppers said:

Hey guys.... I'm not sure if there is a topic for this, but I'm an audio engineer and I've just purchased the 2 lp vinyl and downloaded the 16/44.1 CD audio from the download card. Generally the audio is not overly crunched, but is about 3+ DB louder.  Thus less dynamics. I still think the original CD is better despite the new transfer.  I'll same the same for the LP set.  Beautiful artwork, good pressing, nice poly sleeves, etc... but shrill, loud cut, lacking low end, and could have been that much better.  

I think the take away from this release is the demos and unreleased.  Thats something to be thankful for, though we all know it could have been more expansive.

I used the Mac program Audio Leak to check RMS volume.  For those who don't know what RMS is, I've included a tutorial link.  I'll setup a photo hosting site and send screenshots.  

http://www.channld.com/audioleak/

http://blog.fixyourmix.com/2009/an-explanation-of-the-loudness-wars-that-even-your-dad-will-understand/

Thanks guys...

Primo

 

 

 

Excellent.  I was hoping for an expert view on the remasters.  I’m like someone who loves wine but the year or vineyard it comes from is lost on me.  Are you hearing sounds in it that were buried in the original mix?  Or are now more clear?  Is pro gear needed to hear a difference?

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Hey man..... Love the wine analogy.... my wife and I got married in Oregon for that resason! lol  

So, without headphones and just listening to the reissue LP to 1st pressing LP and the reissue CD to original CD, I would say a few things:

1)  The mastering volume of the LP is really inconsistent..  Louder on some songs than other.  3rd disk is especially hot.  In general cut too hot and thus too distorted and a little harsh.  I don't hear anything I didn't hear on the originals. A pinch better generally in warmth but not much.

2) CD is mastered hotter...Brighter....  less dynamic.  Stay with original CD. Not really hearing anything new, but things will be a little more in focus because the compression brings them to the surface.  That said, there are less dynamics. I mean it's not crunched like Metallica Death Magnet, but it has gone generally from -15 RMS to around -12RMS.  Lower the number the louder the song is.  Lower the number the less dynamics.

 

Edited by PrimosPeppers

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This is disappointing to hear. Thank you very much for your insight.

Obviously I wish they would release a lower-priced box set with everything on vinyl because that's what I want. I bought the super deluxe instead. Have you listened to the audio off the blu-ray or just the CDs? I haven't opened mine yet. Still feelsl like a painful punch to my wallet for 6 CDs @ $150.  I mean, I don't even use CDs anymore.

I have the original AFD and I mostly stream music anyway via Spotify subscription.

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2 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

This is disappointing to hear. Thank you very much for your insight.

Obviously I wish they would release a lower-priced box set with everything on vinyl because that's what I want. I bought the super deluxe instead. Have you listened to the audio off the blu-ray or just the CDs? I haven't opened mine yet. Still feelsl like a painful punch to my wallet for 6 CDs @ $150.  I mean, I don't even use CDs anymore.

I have the original AFD and I mostly stream music anyway via Spotify subscription.

Anytime man.....  Played in bands for years, working in studios, produced a few albums for our little label.....  It's my obsession and what I like to see done right (or as close to as possible).  I actually just purchased the 2 LP version with lossless cd quality download card.  So, I'll be also curious to hear the 5.1 stems and 192/24 bit Hi-res files. Sadly, lots of my favorite bands have released hi-res audio crunched to hell (Soundgarden, Nirvana, etc...)  Isn't that an audio oxymoron? Let's hope this is not the case with the Appetite hi-res files.  

Yeah man.....  I feel your pain.  I think the biggest takeaway from this release is the demos, unreleased.....  Though incomplete, that's the most welcomed inclusion it seems thus far. 

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7 minutes ago, PrimosPeppers said:

Anytime man.....  Played in bands for years, working in studios, produced a few albums for our little label.....  It's my obsession and what I like to see done right (or as close to as possible).  I actually just purchased the 2 LP version with lossless cd quality download card.  So, I'll be also curious to hear the 5.1 stems and 192/24 bit Hi-res files. Sadly, lots of my favorite bands have released hi-res audio crunched to hell (Soundgarden, Nirvana, etc...)  Isn't that an audio oxymoron? Let's hope this is not the case with the Appetite hi-res files.  

Yeah man.....  I feel your pain.  I think the biggest takeaway from this release is the demos, unreleased.....  Though incomplete, that's the most welcomed inclusion it seems thus far. 

I figured a lot of the "audio nerds" would have varying opinions on this. I read your initial post but ended up buying the reissue vinyl today anyway. I have an OP that sounds FANTASTIC. If nothing else, the new one is almost like an "alternate mix" from what I heard on Tidal MQA. So I figured for $30, I'd at least grab this to have around from when I wanna hear something slightly different from my OP. Not sure if that makes sense, but that's how I'm justifying my purchase :lol:

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9 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I figured a lot of the "audio nerds" would have varying opinions on this. I read your initial post but ended up buying the reissue vinyl today anyway. I have an OP that sounds FANTASTIC. If nothing else, the new one is almost like an "alternate mix" from what I heard on Tidal MQA. So I figured for $30, I'd at least grab this to have around from when I wanna hear something slightly different from my OP. Not sure if that makes sense, but that's how I'm justifying my purchase :lol:

I think I am going to eventually get the vinyl too. It's ridiculous there wasn't a lower-cost vinyl/cd combo but at $30, no big deal.

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2 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

I think I am going to eventually get the vinyl too. It's ridiculous there wasn't a lower-cost vinyl/cd combo but at $30, no big deal.

I'm so pissed I can't own the LPs from the Locked & Loaded set. You have NO idea, haha. I'm good with this one for now, but MAN do I wish I could get the LPs from the set.

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1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

I figured a lot of the "audio nerds" would have varying opinions on this. I read your initial post but ended up buying the reissue vinyl today anyway. I have an OP that sounds FANTASTIC. If nothing else, the new one is almost like an "alternate mix" from what I heard on Tidal MQA. So I figured for $30, I'd at least grab this to have around from when I wanna hear something slightly different from my OP. Not sure if that makes sense, but that's how I'm justifying my purchase :lol:

 Yeah, would have loved to have all the vinyl.  Bad marketing in my opinion. Could have sold way more units at a lower price point (and appeased the fans) rather than try to go for the big ticket. Who knows, maybe they will offer it later.... Hope so.

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Ok, my two cents:

I just finished listening to the new AFD vinyl included in the L&L box on my proper stereo system and I think its awesome. I do own multiple vinyl versions of AFD (including the original pressing) and I did hear something new and/or something more in detail in EVERY single song.  

In a nutshell: This new version is fuckin awesome, not better than the still killer original but different in a positive way. 

Edited by zigzagbigbag
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20 minutes ago, zigzagbigbag said:

Ok, my two cents:

I just finished listening to the new AFD vinyl included in the L&L box on my proper stereo system and I think its awesome. I do own multiple vinyl versions of AFD (including the original pressing) and I did hear something new and/or something more in detail in EVERY single song.  

In a nutshell: This new version is fuckin awesome, not better than the still killer original but different in a positive way. 

Maybe I have a bad pressing..... lol  Glad you like it man. I too have a good system.  I just thought it was cut a lot louder than it probably could have been and thus a little harsh / overly EQ at times.. Different yes.... Compression and Eq will bring out stuff as well as that new transfer.  I can't wait to hear the 192/24K files. Could have been better?  In my opinion yes.  I still think the German 1st pressing is one of the best. I have some needle drops of that one and it's badazz!!  Take care

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10 minutes ago, PrimosPeppers said:

Maybe I have a bad pressing..... lol  Glad you like it man. I too have a good system.  I just thought it was cut a lot louder than it probably could have been and thus a little harsh / overly EQ at times.. Different yes.... Compression and Eq will bring out stuff as well as that new transfer.  I can't wait to hear the 192/24K files. Could have been better?  In my opinion yes.  I still think the German 1st pressing is one of the best. I have some needle drops of that one and it's badazz!!  Take care

Since I am german I do own a german original 😄.

Unfortunately I do not own a 5.1 system. Hence, I wont have any chance to listen to the blu ray mix within near future, even if I'd love to so because I expect it to be a great experience. Anyway, I am happy with the new release and to now own proper versions of the demos, even if I had most of them since the early nineties on several bootlegs (Make my day etc). 

Edited by zigzagbigbag

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I have a SHM-CD Version of Appetite for Destruction, and I bought the new remaster. I'm struggling to understand which one has a better quality.

Also the SHM-CD was a pretty great version already and it sounded a bit like a remaster of the Original album already. It brought two slips, one of the Original Cover and one with the Censored Edit Cross Cover, a cross sticker, and the inserts and booklet.

The remaster brings the 2nd cd though. (I bought the double disc version)

 

Edited by Propaganda

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Glad this thread was made. I had already pretty much assumed it would be louder and wouldn't sound any better haha. It's not often a remaster actually does anything good for the source material nowadays. It's a shame the people who are paid to do this stuff fuck it up almost every time lol. 

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5 hours ago, zigzagbigbag said:

Since I am german I do own a german original 😄.

Unfortunately I do not own a 5.1 system. Hence, I wont have any chance to listen to the blu ray mix within near future, even if I'd love to so because I expect it to be a great experience. Anyway, I am happy with the new release and to now own proper versions of the demos, even if I had most of them since the early nineties on several bootlegs (Make my day etc). 

Lol Saw your German local and figured I would acknowledge your pressings greatness! Yes, the demos (though not complete) are the selling point in my opinion. Cheers

Edited by PrimosPeppers
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3 hours ago, Jw224 said:

Glad this thread was made. I had already pretty much assumed it would be louder and wouldn't sound any better haha. It's not often a remaster actually does anything good for the source material nowadays. It's a shame the people who are paid to do this stuff fuck it up almost every time lol. 

Yeah man.... Especially when engineers take the time to make a high res transfer from the source recording then add too much eq and compression...  Maybe the hi-res files will be better. I know eq will change from board to board and all the equipment in the chain.... So, unless your using the original mastering board, original guy, original speakers, original gear for the chain, etc... It will sound different.  Yet, I think they could have kept the volume the same....i.e. less compression / brick walling.  I suppose they (whoever) wanted to be competitive with the current industry RMS.  Who knows.... I'll share screen shots of the audio data.  

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14 hours ago, PrimosPeppers said:

Yeah man.... Especially when engineers take the time to make a high res transfer from the source recording then add too much eq and compression...  Maybe the hi-res files will be better. I know eq will change from board to board and all the equipment in the chain.... So, unless your using the original mastering board, original guy, original speakers, original gear for the chain, etc... It will sound different.  Yet, I think they could have kept the volume the same....i.e. less compression / brick walling.  I suppose they (whoever) wanted to be competitive with the current industry RMS.  Who knows.... I'll share screen shots of the audio data.  

Yeah hearing about how detailed they are in transferring this stuff and then making it sound even worse. The recent Prince remaster is another example of just smashing something because it's the cool thing to do. 

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I've got a bunch of new LPs I'm going to start spinning in a few minutes and the 2 LP AFD will definitely get some attention. 

I'm anxious to hear it for myself and see what I think compared to what I heard on Tidal MQA. 

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hey guys i have a question:

 

the remastered cd doesn't sound any different to me.  I'm listening in either my car stereo (base model) or a pair of beats wireless headphones. 

I need to get a new stereo system for my home, what would you guys recommend?  would the AFD remaster sound better on the system you recommend?  would love some advise from any of your guys who are into this stuff.  

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3 hours ago, Chester 524 said:

hey guys i have a question:

 

the remastered cd doesn't sound any different to me.  I'm listening in either my car stereo (base model) or a pair of beats wireless headphones. 

I need to get a new stereo system for my home, what would you guys recommend?  would the AFD remaster sound better on the system you recommend?  would love some advise from any of your guys who are into this stuff.  

It's just a little louder.... Similar eq. But when you bring things up in volume by using compression, it give one the illusion (pun intended) that things are better / cleaner.  Things jump out.  For instance Slash is more in the mix on this one (which is a good thing). Izzy, even came up in areas I thought he was tucked in the original master. Yet, you then lose dynamics.  Form the quiet parts of the song to the loudest parts. Now, Appetite is not a super dynamic album.  Meaning, it's not a whisper quiet to full on.  Most of the songs are in your face.  So, the compression isn't that apparent.  What you will notice is an increase in ear fatigue.  It's always better to be able to crank a recording that has a lower volume.  It will be interesting to see what they did with the USB 24/192 files. IF anything, that may be a revelation for things we have never heard on the source recording.

 

Would love to help you man... You looking to play LP's or mostly CD's....  What budget are you looking at?  Going to play your tv through the system?  Xbox, etc....

 

 

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4 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I've got a bunch of new LPs I'm going to start spinning in a few minutes and the 2 LP AFD will definitely get some attention. 

I'm anxious to hear it for myself and see what I think compared to what I heard on Tidal MQA. 

yeah man.....let us know.  Take care.

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5 hours ago, Chester 524 said:

hey guys i have a question:

 

the remastered cd doesn't sound any different to me.  I'm listening in either my car stereo (base model) or a pair of beats wireless headphones. 

I need to get a new stereo system for my home, what would you guys recommend?  would the AFD remaster sound better on the system you recommend?  would love some advise from any of your guys who are into this stuff.  

I got the 192khz 24 bit files and put them on a USB and plugged it into my amp and sounds great. The cds are 44.1khz 16 bit

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13 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Posted some thoughts from Jungle to Think About You here:
http://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/220840-afd-2-lp-edition/

Looks like I won't have time to dig into the last side until a couple days from now.

Thanks for the input man.... It would appear the compression is bringing the guitar to the front.  Not necessarily a bad thing if the other instruments don't suffer.  It's a fine line....  Hell, one of my favorite albums is QOTSA "Songs for the Deaf" and it's ultra crunched to hell....  The thing about compression, if you have a bass heavy mix, you can get away with crunching because it doesn't hurt / fatigue your ears as much as mids / highs.  That said, I don't think the new remaster is bad.  They didn't go overboard.  It's all going to be a preference thing for folks.  I'm a guitarist and love guitars, so I like that aspect..... 

12 minutes ago, Gibbo said:

I got the 192khz 24 bit files and put them on a USB and plugged it into my amp and sounds great.

Hey man do you have a mac?  Would be curious to see you drop a file into Audio Leak (free program) and see what the software spits out...

 

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8 minutes ago, PrimosPeppers said:

Thanks for the input man.... It would appear the compression is bringing the guitar to the front.  Not necessarily a bad thing if the other instruments don't suffer.  It's a fine line....  Hell, one of my favorite albums is QOTSA "Songs for the Deaf" and it's ultra crunched to hell....  The thing about compression, if you have a bass heavy mix, you can get away with crunching because it doesn't hurt / fatigue your ears as much as mids / highs.  That said, I don't think the new remaster is bad.  They didn't go overboard.  It's all going to be a preference thing for folks.  I'm a guitarist and love guitars, so I like that aspect..... 

Hey man do you have a mac?  Would be curious to see you drop a file into Audio Leak (free program) and see what the software spits out...

 

Nah I don't mate the files are from HD tracks site you can get them in a couple different formats. They would be the same ones that come in the locked and loaded box on the USB. I have the MSFL afd aswell and I think this is better then that too. A little louder and clearer & crisper.

 

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