Where would GN'R be today if....

[Towelie]

Slash hated all of Axl's ideas and didn't want his songs tinkered with. I think Axl could have made songs off snakepit and Contraband sound better like Libertad sounded great with Scott's input.

Did it?

I think you'll find most VR fans would agree that Liberturd was a massively disappointing follow-up to their brilliant debut.

[Stro]

I think It's Five O'Clock Somewhere would have been a subpar GNR album even with Axl. There are only one or two songs that sound like they could work under the GNR banner. The rest are really generic rock songs that were fine, but not memorable at all. If they had stayed together they'd probably be doing the state fair tours like a lot of their contemporaries are doing. Or dead.

Reading Duff's book, they were pretty much broken up before UYI were even finished.

[YOUCOULDBEMINE.]

Steven, Duff and Slash would probably be dead.

Izzy would still be awesome.

Axl would replace them all.

So whatever you people say about the band breaking up. What we have now is what we would've gotten if the band stayed together.

If they went on the way they did half of them would be dead seeing how much drugs and alcohol these guys did.

VR fans

haha

[YOUCOULDBEMINE.]

People seem to think GNR if they stayed together they would be this unearthly band. UYI was their peak. The Spag incident didn't do great and the grunge scene was taking over.

Original GNR will never be able to compete in the charts with today's music.

Neither can the current GN'R. The best thing about the current GN'R is the old songs.

Going that road are we?

See if I can top that...

The best thing about old-GN'R is that they broke up.

[tange]

Axl and GNR still had a massive following. Deal with it. Nirvana was a band that was not as big as people try to romanticize it as being. In large part because people went out and bought the second album and then said "wait, what is this shit".

Kurt tried to go street on the second album because (and this is documented) he thought Butch Vig had made nevermind too pop sounding.

people can say what they want but my ass was front and center on MTV during that time. I remember shit. Guns were not as cool according to MTV but they kept playing their videos for a while and people were still buying GNR related shit.

look at the damn sales of spaghetti and five oclock somewhere if you won't believe that.

not to mention that Duff AND Gilby were able to put out albums due to the demand for the band at that time

Think about that. everyone except Dizzy were able to put out albums. Let that sink in for a bit.

Edited December 29, 2011 by tange

[dalsh327]

Slash hated all of Axl's ideas and didn't want his songs tinkered with. I think Axl could have made songs off snakepit and Contraband sound better like Libertad sounded great with Scott's input.

He didn't hate his ideas, but when you get outright rejection, it's not going to sit well. Axl should have just gone "go do what you want, while I work things out." It's possible that if Slash wasn't pissed off, he would've stayed in the band and waited it out, but he got tired of waiting, so did Duff.

The mid-late 90s in GNR should have just been an extended break and Axl should have been less stubborn about the direction he wanted GNR to go in. If he had recorded one or two of Slash's songs just to humor him at the time, he prob. still would've been in the band - even if he didn't release it.

[ronartest2004]

Axl and GNR still had a massive following. Deal with it. Nirvana was a band that was not as big as people try to romanticize it as being. In large part because people went out and bought the second album and then said "wait, what is this shit".

Kurt tried to go street on the second album because (and this is documented) he thought Butch Vig had made nevermind too pop sounding.

people can say what they want but my ass was front and center on MTV during that time. I remember shit. Guns were not as cool according to MTV but they kept playing their videos for a while and people were still buying GNR related shit.

look at the damn sales of spaghetti and five oclock somewhere if you won't believe that.

not to mention that Duff AND Gilby were able to put out albums due to the demand for the band at that time

Think about that. everyone except Dizzy were able to put out albums. Let that sink in for a bit.

But as MANY people on here have pointed out, Justin Beiber sold more albums than Chinese did, does that mean he's better than Axl?, Is lady gaga better?, Chris Brown?...so on and so fourth. I never really cared for nirvana, i've always been a gnr guy. And just because somebody doesn't sell as many albums as someone else doesn't mean they are bad. It just means that the mainstream has tuned them out. Same thing that happened with gnr/nirvana.

The same thing that happened with gnr being tuned out in favor of nirvana probably would've happened with nirvana (if kurt was still alive) around 95ish-late 90's. People would've said "God, this stuff is depressing". Man I really wanna hear some happier type of stuff then they would've started listening to eve 6 or some type of pop-alt type of stuff.

It's just not realistic for anyone to say that guns weren't looked upon as a joke by mass media/general public during the grunge era.

MTV has done this for years and years (when they still played videos)...Mid 80's it was all whitesnake,motley,firehouse. Late 80's it was guns. Early 90's it was grunge. Guns made hairbands look like a joke,Nirvana made guns look like a joke. I remember november rain being played ALL the time on MTV, then a couple years later you couldn't turn on mtv without seeing that fat lady dressed up like cupid with kurt cobain rocking back and fourth in that chair yelling "hey way, i gotta little complain".

[ronartest2004]

"hey, wait, I've got a new complaint" ****

It's supposed to be sarcastic scoffing at the perception of grunge as whiny music.

Not that this is important. At all.

:xmasschef2:

lol, yeah goes to show how much an nirvana fan I am, didn't even get the lyrics correct.

[KiraMPD]

"hey, wait, I've got a new complaint" ****

It's supposed to be sarcastic scoffing at the perception of grunge as whiny music.

Not that this is important. At all.

:xmasschef2:

I've always thought of grunge (particularly Nirvana) as the early-mid 90s emo music.

Just sayin'

[dalsh327]

Ya I think it's great how strong GN'R has come back since '06. I think the main reason that the AFD lineup imploded is because they couldn't handle success and it lead them to self destruct.

All the things that made them a great band also led to things imploding. They all had demons prior to the band making it big, and there were things that money wasn't going to solve. I think they enjoyed the success, and maybe in some cases, fueled and enabled the addictions, but the business and creative part of it were damaged more so. And as far as the AFD lineup coming to an end, if Erin didn't go to Adler's house, things might have been different. Axl wanted him out, Slash and Duff agreed to it, and that was the end of his time in GNR. Izzy leaving had to do with a mix of his demons and dislike at Axl telling him what to do, fuck the friendship. It preserved their friendship to an extent though, and kept the door open to coming back to GNR. Even now, there's always a possibility of writing new songs with Axl and the current band.

[dalsh327]

Axl and GNR still had a massive following. Deal with it. Nirvana was a band that was not as big as people try to romanticize it as being. In large part because people went out and bought the second album and then said "wait, what is this shit".

Kurt tried to go street on the second album because (and this is documented) he thought Butch Vig had made nevermind too pop sounding.

people can say what they want but my ass was front and center on MTV during that time. I remember shit. Guns were not as cool according to MTV but they kept playing their videos for a while and people were still buying GNR related shit.

look at the damn sales of spaghetti and five oclock somewhere if you won't believe that.

not to mention that Duff AND Gilby were able to put out albums due to the demand for the band at that time

Think about that. everyone except Dizzy were able to put out albums. Let that sink in for a bit.

But as MANY people on here have pointed out, Justin Beiber sold more albums than Chinese did, does that mean he's better than Axl?, Is lady gaga better?, Chris Brown?...so on and so fourth. I never really cared for nirvana, i've always been a gnr guy. And just because somebody doesn't sell as many albums as someone else doesn't mean they are bad. It just means that the mainstream has tuned them out. Same thing that happened with gnr/nirvana.

The same thing that happened with gnr being tuned out in favor of nirvana probably would've happened with nirvana (if kurt was still alive) around 95ish-late 90's. People would've said "God, this stuff is depressing". Man I really wanna hear some happier type of stuff then they would've started listening to eve 6 or some type of pop-alt type of stuff.

It's just not realistic for anyone to say that guns weren't looked upon as a joke by mass media/general public during the grunge era.

MTV has done this for years and years (when they still played videos)...Mid 80's it was all whitesnake,motley,firehouse. Late 80's it was guns. Early 90's it was grunge. Guns made hairbands look like a joke,Nirvana made guns look like a joke. I remember november rain being played ALL the time on MTV, then a couple years later you couldn't turn on mtv without seeing that fat lady dressed up like cupid with kurt cobain rocking back and fourth in that chair yelling "hey way, i gotta little complain".

I don't know if Nirvana would've been short lived, but it's known that there were plans to replace Dave Grohl, I don't know if Cobain would've moved on to do non-musical things the way Michael Stipe has.

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

Speaking...

With my heart: Top of the world. Best band hands down. No band can't beat the old and original one.

With my brain: Nowhere, they had to break up back in the 90s.

+1

IF there's one thing I do wonder about- it's what would have happened if Duff had decided to stay in Guns (after cleaning himself up)? Believe me- I LOVE Tommy- but I think it's fair to expect that Axl and Guns would have caught a lot less abuse through the rest of the 90's and 00's if he had another AFD member along-side him. I also find myself wondering about it b/c I kind of get the feeling that Duff would welcome an opportunity to re-join today if presented the chance. Just a hunch though- and based on how Axl conducts business and values loyalty- I fully expect that it's Tommy's gig until he doesn't want it any more...

[vaida]

Axl and GNR still had a massive following. Deal with it. Nirvana was a band that was not as big as people try to romanticize it as being. In large part because people went out and bought the second album and then said "wait, what is this shit".

Kurt tried to go street on the second album because (and this is documented) he thought Butch Vig had made nevermind too pop sounding.

people can say what they want but my ass was front and center on MTV during that time. I remember shit. Guns were not as cool according to MTV but they kept playing their videos for a while and people were still buying GNR related shit.

look at the damn sales of spaghetti and five oclock somewhere if you won't believe that.

not to mention that Duff AND Gilby were able to put out albums due to the demand for the band at that time

Think about that. everyone except Dizzy were able to put out albums. Let that sink in for a bit.

But as MANY people on here have pointed out, Justin Beiber sold more albums than Chinese did, does that mean he's better than Axl?, Is lady gaga better?, Chris Brown?...so on and so fourth. I never really cared for nirvana, i've always been a gnr guy. And just because somebody doesn't sell as many albums as someone else doesn't mean they are bad. It just means that the mainstream has tuned them out. Same thing that happened with gnr/nirvana.

The same thing that happened with gnr being tuned out in favor of nirvana probably would've happened with nirvana (if kurt was still alive) around 95ish-late 90's. People would've said "God, this stuff is depressing". Man I really wanna hear some happier type of stuff then they would've started listening to eve 6 or some type of pop-alt type of stuff.

It's just not realistic for anyone to say that guns weren't looked upon as a joke by mass media/general public during the grunge era.

MTV has done this for years and years (when they still played videos)...Mid 80's it was all whitesnake,motley,firehouse. Late 80's it was guns. Early 90's it was grunge. Guns made hairbands look like a joke,Nirvana made guns look like a joke. I remember november rain being played ALL the time on MTV, then a couple years later you couldn't turn on mtv without seeing that fat lady dressed up like cupid with kurt cobain rocking back and fourth in that chair yelling "hey way, i gotta little complain".

I like Lady GaGa *The Fame* and *The Fame Monster*. Her latested album I downloaded and I like all of one track from it. I guess GaGa's gone of the boil with her third (difficult as they say) album. Either she'll come roaring back, or she's kinda finished, apart from touring old material.

Just found this:

This is classic!

VIEWS: 434,177,941

Edited December 29, 2011 by vaida

[Georgy Zhukov]

Slash hated all of Axl's ideas and didn't want his songs tinkered with. I think Axl could have made songs off snakepit and Contraband sound better like Libertad sounded great with Scott's input.

Did it?

I think you'll find most VR fans would agree that Liberturd was a massively disappointing follow-up to their brilliant debut.

Brilliant being subjected I found Libertad to have a lot more life than Contraband. The production of the debut had no soul save for Loving the Alien.

[tange]

Axl and GNR still had a massive following. Deal with it. Nirvana was a band that was not as big as people try to romanticize it as being. In large part because people went out and bought the second album and then said "wait, what is this shit".

Kurt tried to go street on the second album because (and this is documented) he thought Butch Vig had made nevermind too pop sounding.

people can say what they want but my ass was front and center on MTV during that time. I remember shit. Guns were not as cool according to MTV but they kept playing their videos for a while and people were still buying GNR related shit.

look at the damn sales of spaghetti and five oclock somewhere if you won't believe that.

not to mention that Duff AND Gilby were able to put out albums due to the demand for the band at that time

Think about that. everyone except Dizzy were able to put out albums. Let that sink in for a bit.

But as MANY people on here have pointed out, Justin Beiber sold more albums than Chinese did, does that mean he's better than Axl?, Is lady gaga better?, Chris Brown?...so on and so fourth. I never really cared for nirvana, i've always been a gnr guy. And just because somebody doesn't sell as many albums as someone else doesn't mean they are bad. It just means that the mainstream has tuned them out. Same thing that happened with gnr/nirvana.

The same thing that happened with gnr being tuned out in favor of nirvana probably would've happened with nirvana (if kurt was still alive) around 95ish-late 90's. People would've said "God, this stuff is depressing". Man I really wanna hear some happier type of stuff then they would've started listening to eve 6 or some type of pop-alt type of stuff.

It's just not realistic for anyone to say that guns weren't looked upon as a joke by mass media/general public during the grunge era.

MTV has done this for years and years (when they still played videos)...Mid 80's it was all whitesnake,motley,firehouse. Late 80's it was guns. Early 90's it was grunge. Guns made hairbands look like a joke,Nirvana made guns look like a joke. I remember november rain being played ALL the time on MTV, then a couple years later you couldn't turn on mtv without seeing that fat lady dressed up like cupid with kurt cobain rocking back and fourth in that chair yelling "hey way, i gotta little complain".

I not trying to get in a disagreement with you but consider the following.

i thought your main point is that GNR wasn't doing well because consumers had moved on.

Why do you think the studios gave axl 13 million dollars? think they'd do that if they thought the album would bomb?

[Apollo]

"hey, wait, I've got a new complaint" ****

It's supposed to be sarcastic scoffing at the perception of grunge as whiny music.

Not that this is important. At all.

:xmasschef2:

I've always thought of grunge (particularly Nirvana) as the early-mid 90s emo music.

Just sayin'

Yes.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Contraband produced like Libertad. That would have been a good album.

[Nintari]

"hey, wait, I've got a new complaint" ****

It's supposed to be sarcastic scoffing at the perception of grunge as whiny music.

Not that this is important. At all.

:xmasschef2:

I've always thought of grunge (particularly Nirvana) as the early-mid 90s emo music.

Just sayin'

Kurt may have been somewhat emo-ish, but his music certainly wasn't. Most of Nirvana's music was violent, angry and rebellious. You would never hear anything like Tourette's on a fucking emo album, that's for sure. I would classify Nirvana as punk rock.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Nintari

[Chimera]

I think GNR would have continued making good records under MTV's radar. People forget Nirvana only eclipsed GNR's popularity in the USA.

At the same time, if you take a step back - it was a band that wasn't simply meant to last. Izzy, Axl, and Slash were the three strongest musical personalities. All of which repelled, yet complemented one another. The same fuse that allowed the band's energy to be evoked on tape is the same fuse that inevitably stretched too far, and snapped like a rubber band.

[axl666]

Difficult to say. There might have been some new albums but as to how good they would be...

The first snakepit with Axl's vocals would have been good, and might have sold, though I'd guess it

would have sold only a bit more than TSI as GNR was on the wane at the time.

After that I don't know. The problem would have been that the band's musical creativity seemed to have

peaked:

From what we know Axl didn't write most of the music to CD. Bucket etc. did by jamming over a number of years.

Slash's second snakepit abum was (imo) a huge decline in quality compared to the first, let alone his GNR stuff.

His Velvet Revolver songs feel fairly weak to me, as does his latest solo album. Not saying that there's not some good songs/solos

on there, but nowhere near as good as his GNR stuff.

Duff is interesting to me as his songwriting ability seems to have improved the longer he has been out of GNR. His first solo

album is fairly bad, whereas Loaded's newest album is great I think.

Dizzy is difficult to say. From what he know he can write some Bowie-esque catchy songs and melodies; however he is not an

innovator in the way that other musicians who are fans of Bowie, such as Trent Reznor are.

Matt Sorum has written one song on his own as far as we know, and that's Set me Free on VR's first album. His latest solo music...

the least said the better.

If I had to guess I'd have said that after a GNR version of the Snakepit album they could have made one or two more albums but with

increasingly diminishing returns and poor song-writing. Probably diminishing sales as well. I think that in the longer term Slash has

proven to be played out; however I'd have been very interested to see what Axl and Duff would have come up with together. So I'd

have liked Duff to have stayed with the new GNR I think.

Bucket, bumble, Ashba seem to be much more creative than Slash. Duff now seems to be producing SOLO music of a much higher quality than

Tommy Stinson, plus I get the impression that Duff would like to be back in Guns whereas Tommy seems to think Guns is a bit of a joke

really.

[dalsh327]

Difficult to say. There might have been some new albums but as to how good they would be...

The first snakepit with Axl's vocals would have been good, and might have sold, though I'd guess it

would have sold only a bit more than TSI as GNR was on the wane at the time.

After that I don't know. The problem would have been that the band's musical creativity seemed to have

peaked:

From what we know Axl didn't write most of the music to CD. Bucket etc. did by jamming over a number of years.

Slash's second snakepit abum was (imo) a huge decline in quality compared to the first, let alone his GNR stuff.

His Velvet Revolver songs feel fairly weak to me, as does his latest solo album. Not saying that there's not some good songs/solos

on there, but nowhere near as good as his GNR stuff.

Duff is interesting to me as his songwriting ability seems to have improved the longer he has been out of GNR. His first solo

album is fairly bad, whereas Loaded's newest album is great I think.

Dizzy is difficult to say. From what he know he can write some Bowie-esque catchy songs and melodies; however he is not an

innovator in the way that other musicians who are fans of Bowie, such as Trent Reznor are.

Matt Sorum has written one song on his own as far as we know, and that's Set me Free on VR's first album. His latest solo music...

the least said the better.

If I had to guess I'd have said that after a GNR version of the Snakepit album they could have made one or two more albums but with

increasingly diminishing returns and poor song-writing. Probably diminishing sales as well. I think that in the longer term Slash has

proven to be played out; however I'd have been very interested to see what Axl and Duff would have come up with together. So I'd

have liked Duff to have stayed with the new GNR I think.

Bucket, bumble, Ashba seem to be much more creative than Slash. Duff now seems to be producing SOLO music of a much higher quality than

Tommy Stinson, plus I get the impression that Duff would like to be back in Guns whereas Tommy seems to think Guns is a bit of a joke

really.

I think they all sensed in the mid 90s an impossible task of following up UYI, and should have just taken the rest of the 90s off to work on the side projects, then came back in 2003. It's likely Dave Kushner would've been writing with Slash and Duff on new songs either way, we already know Izzy wrote at least one new song. Most of ChiDem would've been halfway completed because Axl would've kept working on the songs without their input. Minus the Slash vs Axl feud, ChiDem might have come out sooner, but there would've been even more unreleased songs, and probably a double CD would've come out.

[CoolRanchDressing]

And that's exactly what Snakepit was... no big deal.

[Georgy Zhukov]

They all had different ideas in the mid nineties a split was inevitable.

[Guns n' Swedes]

They should have taken an indefinite break after 93 and simply avoid to become enemies. Then they could just have come together when they were ready for it again.

You can't stay hot continously during a 40 year career.