Was the CD tour really that ridiculous in length?

[Flayer]

Decided to compare length of the Chinese Democracy Tour against the Use Your Illusion Tour.

Now I'm defining the Chinese Tour as being 2006-2011. Reason being everyone on here likes to rant/distinguish "this lineup" from the Bucket/Robin era, and they really did have a different sound of them, and because they didn't even play that many Chinese songs at all, and I'm not counting Up Close And Personal, as its being billed and has mainly been a more "general" Guns show, less of a Chinese Democracy one , and because it's just kicking off and we don't really know what they're intending later this year.

2006-2007 and 2009-2011 Chinese Democracy Touring spans 212 shows.

Use Your Illusion Tour beginning 1991 and ending halfway through 1993 spans 194 shows.

That's not that big of a difference. Chinese has been more spread out because of instability and management issues and actually finishing the damn thing, but overall Chinese and the new lineup was showcased for a roughly similar number of shows as the Use Your Illusion albums.

Now of course this raises other questions, such as whether the Illusion Tour was also too bloated for its own good (might well have been), or whether it was a wise decision to plan a tour that long even if UYI did it, etc.

But what I'm really trying to debunk is this "Chinese Democracy Has Been Toured For 10 Years" nonsense, it's just factually not true.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Flayer

[ITW 2012]

I don't think you can leave out the Buckethead lineup. That's the band that is largely responsible for the album after all.

[Flayer]

I don't think you can leave out the Buckethead lineup. That's the band that is largely responsible for the album after all.

Ok that adds 27 shows.

[Kill Devil Hill]

I don't think you can leave out the Buckethead lineup. That's the band that is largely responsible for the album after all.

+1 The tour has been going for 10 years. With one album of material. It's completely incomparable to UYI, which was three years with two albums.

[Flayer]

+1 The tour has been going for 10 years. With one album of material. It's completely incomparable to UYI, which was three years with two albums.

Yes because they never played anything but that one album.

Count shows, not years. Half of those ten years are more or less empty.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Flayer

[Kill Devil Hill]

+1 The tour has been going for 10 years. With one album of material. It's completely incomparable to UYI, which was three years with two albums.

Yes because they never played anything but that one album.

No, they also played shit we already heard since the dawn of time. I don't see your point.

Edit: Regarding your edit, the UYI tour was hectic, but it was done in a timely fashion, and they were still selling plenty. What is the purpose of still touring CD? To promote an album unavailable in the country they're currently touring?

The third UYI tour year may have been excessive, though. Slash said its purpose was solely to make money they blew anyway.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Kill Devil Hill

[liers]

UYI was a double album though.

Also, I would consider the 2002 line up part of the tour, as they revealed a lot of the new material (maddy, sod, cd, rhiad)

They have been active 7 out of the past 10 years....

Edited March 9, 2012 by liers

[LXA]

If Guns N' Roses was just '01-'12, they'd be a joke.

[Flayer]

Fine, count them. That's 239 to 194.

Bear in mind that they were still adding new songs to the setlist in 2006 and in 2009/10. The idea that promoting Chinese Democracy is the sole objective of these tours is ridiculous. What was more important was winning back mainstream opinion (mainstream being the people who care about it, the rock community not getting back into Top 40s or MTV or whatever) as an acceptable version of Guns N' Roses (not THE Guns N' Roses, but a respected successor).

And that they did. Axl was a complete joke in the "mainstream" of 2001-2002, the band got attention only for novelty value/curiosity, years and years of fat jokes, corn rows, sports jerseys, bad plastic surgery, Mickey Mouse voice jokes ensue. Look at what they've accomplished by now - they get mostly very positive reviews, their shows are considered impressive, plenty of new songs like Better and Chinese and Sorry and Madagascar are actually being name-dropped in the reviews alongside the classics, CD and New Guns have earned a lot more respect all around the board and are definitely in a far better place than they were 10 years ago.

They've won the respect of fans at the shows, reviewers in the press, but lost it among many Internet communities who watch every video and setlist update like a fucking hawk rather than go see one or two shows and buy their T-shirt and watch a couple of Youtube vids like a normal fan. We are the crazies here people; wake up and realize that what seem to be "consensus" opinions on here often do not reflect what the majority of people actually think of the band. This is a high point, the last two years are pretty much THE high point in the for all post-breakup Guns history, and you're pissing away the moment whining about setlists and vocals declining from 2010 to 2011 and new songs not being released next month.

Too many people just take a look at the setlist for each show and judge whether it was a good or bad night based off that, see that DJ's said pretty much the same thing in another view and make character judgements of him off that, look at their watch and realize it's been a whole day since they last posted about it and there's STILL no word on the Chinese Democracy followup, and forget the goddamn point of being a fan in the first place:

To enjoy yourself.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Flayer

[WhazUp]

When the tour starts from 2001 going to 2011 with no new material in sight, yeah I think it has gone on way too long. Especially when there are periods of silence between each leg

[Kill Devil Hill]

When you take everything out of context, your point is completely valid.

But think of things IN context. We're bitching because we're fans. We want the best for the band. And we want new music. What do you want us to say? "Yes, I'm perfectly content with Guns N' Roses touring the same tour over and over again without them releasing a single bit of new music." I don't see how a fan can possibly say that. I'm not saying you're not a fan, but you're a different type of fan. And that's fine. I don't give you shit for posting, "Awesome show! Great setlist!" or anything, because I realize that you see it differently. But you're not more correct. I just see the band not reaching its full potential, and it's frustrating.

Counting shows isn't the best scale. Imagine if a band toured three shows every year for fifteen years, released an album, and then did the exact same thing. No one's gonna say, "Well, technically, it's a short tour," because it's been going on for 19 years. I don't think they've done too many shows; if that number was in a ~4 year span, that'd be reasonable. But it wasn't. It was over a span of 10 years. It's never-ending because it's been 10 years, not because they played 200+ shows.

We all, as fans, want the band to move forward, right? We can all agree to that. I don't see this as moving forward. You might, and that's fine, but you're not more correct than me, just like I'm not more correct than you.

[Flayer]

And then there's the classic "Well maybe YOU don't want to hear new songs or get a new album" response which has been slung around too many times to count in defense of all the bitching. News flash, everyone would love to hear fifty new songs and get three new albums in a row and have a music video for TWAT or whatever new song they like best. The idea of someone who only wants them to do the same thing over and over again and never change or progress is ludicrous. There is not a single person like that on this board.

What's the real problem here? Constant bitching makes this forum a miserable place to post. Why should anybody waste their time coming to a forum where all members will do is complain that they haven't gotten enough new stuff to satisfy them yet and moan about how GNR is hopeless and over every time they get bored or one show goes awry. I've had a lot of fun here in better times, I think we all, which were honestly not that far off; like, a month ago. Can people just get some fucking perspective here? About a month ago everything was fine, we were still bored lot of the time, still waiting impatiently, but we could joke about and have some fun and be fairly realistic. Now it's like everybody's decided to have a complete meltdown, saying it's all over, there will be no new album ever, etc, while being in pretty much the exact same situation as last month, and I mean, aren't you guys bored of the wallowing yet?

It honestly seems like we're manufacturing our own crisis since Axl hasn't provided us with one lately.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Flayer

[Nick85]

When you take everything out of context, your point is completely valid.

But think of things IN context. We're bitching because we're fans. We want the best for the band. And we want new music. What do you want us to say? "Yes, I'm perfectly content with Guns N' Roses touring the same tour over and over again without them releasing a single bit of new music." I don't see how a fan can possibly say that. I'm not saying you're not a fan, but you're a different type of fan. And that's fine. I don't give you shit for posting, "Awesome show! Great setlist!" or anything, because I realize that you see it differently. But you're not more correct. I just see the band not reaching its full potential, and it's frustrating.

Counting shows isn't the best scale. Imagine if a band toured three shows every year for fifteen years, released an album, and then did the exact same thing. No one's gonna say, "Well, technically, it's a short tour," because it's been going on for 19 years. I don't think they've done too many shows; if that number was in a ~4 year span, that'd be reasonable. But it wasn't. It was over a span of 10 years. It's never-ending because it's been 10 years, not because they played 200+ shows.

We all, as fans, want the band to move forward, right? We can all agree to that. I don't see this as moving forward. You might, and that's fine, but you're not more correct than me, just like I'm not more correct than you.

Great post.

Any way you cut it, they've been touring on and off in support of Chinese for over ten years now. It's been a long, long road. It really is time for some new music.

Edited March 9, 2012 by sofine11

[31illusions]

the tour has lasted 10+ years.

[ThinkAboutYou]

I consider the tour starting 01/01/01 so between 01/01/01 and 2012 that's 12 years. So yeah too long but if Axl releases the other 2 albums soon then it will balance out

Edited March 9, 2012 by ThinkAboutYou

[axlsalinger]

+1 The tour has been going for 10 years. With one album of material. It's completely incomparable to UYI, which was three years with two albums.

Yes because they never played anything but that one album.

Count shows, not years. Half of those ten years are more or less empty.

Why the fuck would people not count years? 12 years to tour one album, that for reasons still unexplained wasn't released until the "tour" had already been going for years, is nonsensical. Trying to rationalize it by comparing the "number of shows" is just silly. So, to answer your question, was the CD tour really that ridiculous in length?

YES.

[Nick85]

I consider the tour starting 01/01/01 so between 01/01/01 and 2012 that's 12 years. So yeah too long but if Axl releases the other 2 albums soon then it will balance out

I'm starting to get the impression that Axl wants us to forget that Chinese D was supposed to consist of the multi-album opus we were all looking forward to for so long. His silence regarding the rest of the tracks for the past 3 years is...troubling.

Edited March 9, 2012 by sofine11

[Flayer]

I consider the tour starting 01/01/01 so between 01/01/01 and 2012 that's 12 years. So yeah too long but if Axl releases the other 2 albums soon then it will balance out

That's because we've all selectively forgotten that in 2001 they cancelled 85% of the show and everyone was pissed and waiting for them to tour

And in 2002 they canceled half of the shows again and everyone was pissed off once more and waiting for the real tour to begin

And that in 2003 there were no shows,

And that in 2004 there were no shows, just a false start before Buckethead's departure

And that in 2005 there were no shows and no word

And that 2006 and 2007 was when it finally started in earnest and a bunch of new songs debuted that everyone was excited over.

And that in 2008 there was no tour but the album got released

And that in 2009 they played four shows at the end of the year

Goin on to 2010, where between these shows and '09 a bunch of new songs appeared and Axl's singing improved greatly, giving better versions of song we'd heard than we'd gotten before.

And that only in 2011 did Guns hit on a formula and pretty much stick to one setlist the whole time. And they still added Estranged and Civil War.

Twelve years of touring indeed.

[Nick85]

Twelve years of touring indeed.

On and off, yeah.

Youre missing everyone's point. The first HOB show in 2001 they debuted The Blues, Riad, & Chinese Democracy...What album were those from? What music/album were they promoting? Nevermind that the following 2002 U.S. tour was billed as "The Chinese Democracy World Tour". Just look at the t-shirts sold at the shows for Christ sake. "Chinese Democracy Starts Now!"

I get what you're trying to say about how we should look at the number of shows, not the number of years. But that ship just don't float my friend.

New album please.

Edited March 9, 2012 by sofine11

[Flayer]

New album please.

+1

Can we all go back to our usual semblance of normality please? Bitching in every thread is not gonna get an album released any faster and will just make the wait more miserable.

[Nick85]

New album please.

+1

Can we all go back to our usual semblance of normality please? Bitching in every thread is not gonna get an album released any faster and will just make the wait more miserable.

Right, and don't get me wrong, I had a blast at the live shows I went to this past year, especially the Chicago HOB show. But when you consider that Axl has more than an album's worth of tracks, possibly even better than what was on CD, how could we not get a bit impatient when years go by with no word on what's going to happen with them...Especially when you consider that CD was supposed to consist of more than 1 album, which was instilled in the fans as recently as the Axl chats.

Who wouldn't want, at the very least, an update?

[Flayer]

Who wouldn't want, at the very least, an update?

And we're actually expecting one from Axl, notorious for inaccurate or nonexistent updates? Just setting ourselves up for disappointment.

If nothing else, look forward to a Tupac-style career in the coming decades. Seven post-mortum albums of CD vault material and a recogition of "what a true lyrical and musical genius Axl always was" from the mainstream media that will enrage us fans who've stuck em, through all the fucking shit...

Edited March 9, 2012 by Flayer

[Nick85]

Who wouldn't want, at the very least, an update?

And we're actually expecting one from Axl, notorious for inaccurate or nonexistent updates? Just setting ourselves up for disappointment.

If nothing else, look forward to a Tupac-style career in the coming decades. Seven post-mortum albums of CD vault material and a recogition of "what a true lyrical and musical genius Axl always was" from the mainstream media that will enrage us fans who've stuck em, through all the fucking shit...

True dat. I mean, he can't have the other music buried with him...Can he?

[Chewbacca]

The problem is not on how many gigs they made, but on how many years they spent doing so, and yes I think it's a bit too much. I had the oppurtinity to see them live thanks to that, however.

[Tyler Drama]

I'm sorry... is the Chinese Democracy tour over? If so, what's the upcoming tour overseas called?