Fans infuriated after two-hour wait for Guns N' Roses Liverpool gig

[classicrawker]

GNR went on stage earlier than the band in my example did. try to keep up.

you're forgiven tho if u were distracted because you were trying to finally learn the difference between a fact and an opinion.

But you were not talking about NuGuns you were talking about another band and it is rare that NuGuns gets on stage early and that is the issue at hand so this is another one of your failed spins...........

[pugachev]

last concert i went to was less than a week ago. headliner went on at 11:05pm. they played until 12:40am.

had they played a GNR sized set, the show would have ended at 2am.

i don't think anybody would have complained about the ending time. they would have been so fucking thrilled that the band had played that long.

bitter ex-fans need to find something better to do with their lives than complain about GNR playing so long.

This. Its one thing to complain about them going on late, but for playing "too long"? Would you complain that your steak is too big when your order at a restaurant? Hell no. If their set is too long and you can't stay, then just leave early. How can you get upset with a band giving you a close to 3-hour set?

[Bobbo]

How can you get mad at a band for actually giving you your money's worth? I'd love for my other favorite bands to play even two hour sets. If it's getting too late and you have to leave early, that's fine. You got your two hours so it's not like you're wasting your money. I suppose if the sole reason you went to the show was for Paradise City, you'd be fucked. That's the only thing I can think of...

Not at all! If you pay the price for a full show and you can't see it all because of Axl's inconsiderate actions you don't get your moneys worth! Again you need to realise that the majority of the audience simply aren't aware to expect the late start. If they see doors at 6:30 and show start at 9:00 they have every right to expect that. It doesn't make them stupid it just means they don't spend every day on the forums.

Out of all the bands I've seen over the years, and there have been a fucking lot of them, this is the only one that I've ever really bothered to join a forum about. Every show I've been to I've bought the ticket cos I liked the band and their music and looked forward to seeing them live. I can count on the fingers of one hand the amount of significantly late starts and they were all for reasons beyond the band's control.

The people who insist that everybody should know exactly what to expect have far too much time on their hands to be fair and I include myself in this. People with busy lives, jobs and families will often buy the ticket on a whim, forget about it until the night of the show and go out looking forward to a rare night out expecting nothing more than a fun night and a little nostalgia seeing some of their favourite tunes for the first time in years.

Again it would be simple common courtesy to give some indication of possible delays to these people so they are able to factor the issue in when thinking about buying the ticket and making arrangements to get to and from the show.

Brilliant Fucking post Dazey. Agree with every word. This is what I've been preaching for almost a year now!

[Dazey]

My issue is this . . . unless we know what time GNR agreed to go on stage, how can we say if they were late (let alone 2 hours late)? Unless you've seen the contract, there is no justification for making it personal between the fan and the band.

That argument only holds water if you can say with conviction that Axl is completely unaware of any problems that the late starts may cause the fans. If he genuinely has no idea that a 2am finish will be a problem for a significant proportion of the audience then fair enough it's nothing to do with him. But of course Axl's not that stupid and neither are you to believe it!

[classicrawker]

There are several issues at play here, with different layers of blame, some of which are often misdirected.

The public's relationship is not actually with the band. It's with the promoter.

The promoter's relationship is with the band.

What's in the band's best interest, the fan's best interest and the promoter's best interest are often very different things.

Further, you also have the added buffer between the promoter and artist . . . aka management.

We do not know when GNR is contracted to go on every night. We do not know if Axl is aware of the contracted time. We do not know if he's adhering to the contracted time. We don't know if the promoter is being dishonest about the contracted time in an effort to maximize ticket sales.

There is a lot we don't know.

What we do know is that the average person going to a major arena rock show probably expects the show to end before 1am, if not earlier.

And yet, GNR often ends at 2 or 3am.

That is obviously going to cause issues. Someone who is upset about a show starting late or ending late, their opinion is valid.

My issue is this . . . unless we know what time GNR agreed to go on stage, how can we say if they were late (let alone 2 hours late)? Unless you've seen the contract, there is no justification for making it personal between the fan and the band.

Do ho ho ho ho.........Axl does not know what time the show is supposed to start... ...you make him out to be a clueless idiot...............your fucking crazy mate but I love reading your posts...........it is like passing a car wreck you don't want to look but can't help yourself..............

[Dazey]

Brilliant Fucking post Dazey. Agree with every word. This is what I've been preaching for almost a year now!

Common sense and manners are wonderful things don't you think, eh buddy?

[Kill Devil Hill]

No mate I respect anyone who plays a musical instrument, I play guitar myself, but when I saw the picture it made me think of the movie American Pie and the "Band camp" episode....apologies if I offended........

I wasn't, hence the smiley. You're too nice, man.

How can you get mad at a band for actually giving you your money's worth? I'd love for my other favorite bands to play even two hour sets. If it's getting too late and you have to leave early, that's fine. You got your two hours so it's not like you're wasting your money. I suppose if the sole reason you went to the show was for Paradise City, you'd be fucked. That's the only thing I can think of...

Not at all! If you pay the price for a full show and you can't see it all because of Axl's inconsiderate actions you don't get your moneys worth! Again you need to realise that the majority of the audience simply aren't aware to expect the late start. If they see doors at 6:30 and show start at 9:00 they have every right to expect that. It doesn't make them stupid it just means they don't spend every day on the forums.

Out of all the bands I've seen over the years, and there have been a fucking lot of them, this is the only one that I've ever really bothered to join a forum about. Every show I've been to I've bought the ticket cos I liked the band and their music and looked forward to seeing them live. I can count on the fingers of one hand the amount of significantly late starts and they were all for reasons beyond the band's control.

The people who insist that everybody should know exactly what to expect have far too much time on their hands to be fair and I include myself in this. People with busy lives, jobs and families will often buy the ticket on a whim, forget about it until the night of the show and go out looking forward to a rare night out expecting nothing more than a fun night and a little nostalgia seeing some of their favourite tunes for the first time in years.

Again it would be simple common courtesy to give some indication of possible delays to these people so they are able to factor the issue in when thinking about buying the ticket and making arrangements to get to and from the show.

And I agree with all of this, but it has nothing to do with what I said.

I don't think there's any excuse for a late band, but Guns N' Roses weren't really late. Thin Lizzy was late from what I've read, and GN'R were just consequentially late, and they didn't even go on that late considering Thin Lizzy was off the stage at 9:40.

My post there was regarding someone who said the reason people are angry is because the shows are too long.

[downzy]

My issue is this . . . unless we know what time GNR agreed to go on stage, how can we say if they were late (let alone 2 hours late)? Unless you've seen the contract, there is no justification for making it personal between the fan and the band.

I think you're completely missing the point. Do you honestly think the promoter is the party that chooses a later contractual start time with respect to GNR's performance? If indeed late starts are allowed or stipulated in the contract, wouldn't that be a stipulation imposed by the artist/management? Since almost all venues have late fees for playing past curfew, such fees/fines would likely be the responsibility of the artists and not the promoter. No promoter would agree to work with an artist if they were the ones forced to swallow the late fines.

Your argument would also suggest that GNR is the exception and not the rule. Why would a promoter negotiate a late start for GNR and not any other band? Moreover, since Axl's late starts have been a common occurrence since the early 1990s, your argument would have to include those shows as well. Likewise, one might think that Slash, Duff and Izzy might have taken issue with the promoters and not Axl when it comes to the late starts.

To try and and inject a third party into the arraignment as a means to excuse the band for starting so late lacks logic or evidence. There have been many attempts by Axl and his staff to defend (ie. Del James, Fernando, Beta, etc) the late starts as a matter of artistic right. No where, at any time, have we ever seen the argument you're supporting being put forth as a rationale for GNR's tendency to make audiences wait an excessive amount of time between opening and their performance.

You might be right in stating that contractually they are not late by starting at 11:00pm or midnight, but such stipulations in the contract are not made known to the public nor would be advocated by third parties such as promoters or venues. As such, there is absolute justification for a personal grievance by fans towards the band (er, Axl), as it is the band (Axl) that demands the late start and pays the late fines.

And any arguement based on band ignorance is just that, ignorant to the history and the facts at hand. Axl, the band, the crew and management are fully aware when the opening band gets off, when the stage is ready for them, and how long the fans have been waiting.

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited May 24, 2012 by downzy

[classicrawker]

No mate I respect anyone who plays a musical instrument, I play guitar myself, but when I saw the picture it made me think of the movie American Pie and the "Band camp" episode....apologies if I offended........

I wasn't, hence the smiley. You're too nice, man.

Costs nothing to be nice mate...I have seen a smile and thank you makes a persons day...Nobody should ever take my posts too seriously as this is only a geeky internet forum and I enjoy a good debate............

[GnRMatt]

Fan Steven Phillips, 33, did not manage to get home until 2am

Aww poor him!

I have a cousin called Steven Phillips and he's a wanker, sounds like it could be him LOL

[volcano62]

Fan Steven Phillips, 33, did not manage to get home until 2am

Aww poor him!

I have a cousin called Steven Phillips and he's a wanker, sounds like it could be him LOL

[Dazey]

There are a lot of factors in play. It's not as simple as, "Why doesn't GNR just warn people?"

It's exactly that simple! You look at the recent show finish times take an average, display a disclaimer at point of purchase and print it on the ticket. Job done! Problem solved!

[classicrawker]

Do ho ho ho ho.........Axl does not know what time the show is supposed to start... ...you make him out to be a clueless idiot...............your fucking crazy mate but I love reading your posts...........it is like passing a car wreck you don't want to look but can't help yourself..............

Who decides when a show is supposed to start? The band? Management? The promoter?

If GNR says we'll be on at 11, the promoter tells the public 9, and management promises they'll convince the band to go on at 10, in that scenario, when is the show "supposed to start"?

And if GNR goes on at 11:30, are they 30 mins late? 90 mins late? 150 mins late?

It's not a cut and dry issue. Concerts typically advertise when the OPENER will go on, not when the headliner will go on. If a show is advertised for 9, what is a reasonable time for the public to expect the headliner to go on? Certainly they realize there will be an opener or two, set changes, etc.

But what if the promoter chooses to advertise 8 instead of 9 figuring it will help sales?

There are a lot of factors in play. It's not as simple as, "Why doesn't GNR just warn people?"

Well fuck, they've released NUMEROUS statements discussing the fact that they go on late. Are they responsible for buying billboards in every city they play at their own expense warning people that the promoter might advertise a start time they know GNR will never be able to stick to and isn't what was agreed to?

I know it's easier to just complain without any thought. I know many of you just need to vent without facts getting in the way.

But the truth is, the band's late starts are already pretty bad even if you stick to the truth. So why can't the truth be what's discussed?

You continue to repeat the mantra of "truth" and "fact" yet all you have presented is your opinion here so please stop expressing it like it is the "truth" or "fact"

[Dazey]

GNR does not control the point of purchase. GNR does not control the ticket. GNR has released multiple public statements letting people know they go on late.

Next idea?

Nope, same idea and it's a great one! GnR may not control these things but one word from Axl and it would be done without any trouble!

[classicrawker]

GNR has released multiple public statements letting people know they go on late.

Citation? I never read one?

[Dazey]

Dazey -

You've offered wild speculation, with absolutely nothing to support it, that "one word" from Axl is all it would take to force all ticket outlets to display GNR related disclaimers. You've also claimed that "one word" from Axl is all it would take to completely take over control of what is printed on tickets, even though what's displayed on tickets is often aggressively negotiated by the promoter, who wants to control the ability to give added value to a potential sponsor, or publicize his own company.

You really just have no idea what you're talking about.

You really are clamped onto the man's rectum like a barnacle aren't you? Are you honestly telling me that you believe in your heart of hearts that if Axl wanted one little sentence printed on the ticket that there's no way in hell he could make it happen? You know as well as I do that it would be easy as hell so stop acting like his defence council for five minutes eh?

[classicrawker]

Dazey -

You've offered wild speculation, with absolutely nothing to support it, that "one word" from Axl is all it would take to force all ticket outlets to display GNR related disclaimers. You've also claimed that "one word" from Axl is all it would take to completely take over control of what is printed on tickets, even though what's displayed on tickets is often aggressively negotiated by the promoter, who wants to control the ability to give added value to a potential sponsor, or publicize his own company.

You really just have no idea what you're talking about.

GNR has released multiple public statements letting people know they go on late.

Citation? I never read one?

hahahaha, one of them was reposted and subsequently quoted on this board TODAY.

thanks for confirming that you don't even read what you're replying to.

I don't read every post in every thread mate as I have a full time job and two little girls I take care of. I asked you as I had never seen the band make a public statement as they sure did not do it where I live when the band passed through...............I am so used to you throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks and then not being able to produce any proof when challenged I wanted to see if you had anything s I was curious what the statements said...

[AxlRose14]

And that's one of the reasons why I wouldn't go see them again. I mean, that's just disrespectful. Yeah, Axl won't bend or do things normally cause he is "a true artist" and "rock'n'roll", but why should I bend for him and just accept his dumb-ass behavior? I do admit they put out one hell of a show, but waiting two hours just kills the mood.

When I saw them they came on at 12am. Was terrible, everyone was exhausted by the time they came on. After the rock hall thing that was the last insult for me. Never going to an Axl Rose concert again.

So you feel insulted that a man stood up for what he believed in and did something he truly felt was the best decision he could make?

Kind of strange.

Or is it because he didn't reunite to fulfill you petty dreams of a reunion?

Get a grip! It wasn't about that..it was about Axl making a statement to the fans, instead of the same old ''accept me or suck it'' attitude he's had, which doesn't help with beta, fernando, and that hott slut vanessa enabling his rediculous behavior. And learn to read, the poster clearly states that the 12 am start started his anger. Rediculous, and the guys a chickenshit

[classicrawker]

You really are clamped onto the man's rectum like a barnacle aren't you? Are you honestly telling me that you believe in your heart of hearts that if Axl wanted one little sentence printed on the ticket that there's no way in hell he could make it happen? You know as well as I do that it would be easy as hell so stop acting like his defence council for five minutes eh?

I don't know the man. I don't care to know the man. I buy his records. I attend his concerts. I enjoy his art. I do not give a fuck about him as a person, just as I'm sure he does not give a fuck about me.

There is no way for you to know how hard or easy it would be to get the "warning" you are proposing printed on the tickets, assuming promoters would even consider it for one second. Not only do promoters not want people to know when the headliner is going on, but venues don't want them to know either. You'd be expecting Axl to fight the entire system, and for what? Maybe he has more important battles to worry about than to devote his life to changing industry standards in regards to how events are marketed?

I have a full time job and two little girls I take care of.

How do you justify spending so much time on message boards devoted to bands you don't like when you have two children that need to be cared for, deserve a chance to eventually go to college, have healthcare, etc?

I don't spend as much time as you think mate, and I have a very good job but thanks for your concern over my childrens future...

[Kill Devil Hill]

How do you justify attacking someone's parenting when you know absolutely nothing about him?

[Dazey]

How do you justify attacking someone's parenting when you know absolutely nothing about him?

Cos he's an obnoxious gasbag who's got nothing more to say in an argument he's losing badly. Next up come the challenges and wagers!

[Kill Devil Hill]

You're not neglecting your kids even if you spend eight hours on this website per day. Kids go to school and sometimes only spend a few conscious hours at home.

[Strange Broue]

How do you justify spending so much time on message boards devoted to bands you don't like when you have two children that need to be cared for, deserve a chance to eventually go to college, have healthcare, etc?

Nah, classicrawker is a good poster...

I agree with you on BBA's case, but you should shut your mouth now...

i'm curious to know how anybody justifies spending so much time posting on multiple message boards about a band they DON'T like, let alone someone with two young children.

Mind your own business...

Questions like this completely disgusting/rude...

Edited May 24, 2012 by Motivation

[Dazey]

hahahahha yea i'm definitely losing the argument. clearly axl can say ONE WORD and EVERY TICKET OUTLET WILL INSTANTLY HAVE POSTED DISCLAIMERS.

wtf is wrong with you . . .

Have you ever heard the phrase "a figure of speech"? You know exactly what I meant as did everybody else in this thread but you're pulling your usual shit of resorting to nitpicking at semantics instead of addressing the point at hand.

Can I ask anybody else reading this if the thought I actually meant that I was talking about a single solitary word from Axl? I'll clarify for those who've been hit with one too many steel chairs. Axl if he so desires has the ability to inform the fans of the possibility of a delay. Simple as that!

Edited May 24, 2012 by Dazey

[WhazUp]

Well this thread took a weird turn...