Some thoughts after reading through Canter's posts.

[Randy Lahey]

I wonder what would happen if Slash were to one day come out and apologize for some of the things he said or did. If that would lead to them squashing the hatred. Or I should say, lead to Axl "forgiving" this long held grudge.

Depends on how much Axl blames Slash for ruining his career for the past 20 years. It might be a decade too late for an apology to have any effect.

[Bobbo]

The whole "slash crawled back to Axl and begged to come back" is heresay at best. We know he went there. That's it.

For all we know he just wanted to end their little dick measuring contest, and end the hatred. And he was drunk when he tried.

Don't forget this was in 2005. When slash just finished a successful stint with velvet revolver and won his first Grammy, and Axl looked like he was dead and buried professionally. Who really looked like they needed who at this point?

[Dariablue]

Marc is great. I'm always surprised (and grateful) at how quick he responds whenever I post a question in his section.

Some of people's comments about Marc are disgusting. If a thread ever needed to be cleaned up it's this one.

I think the mods are a little busy deleting all those racist posts for Team Brazil.

Yeah probably scouring the forum for those.

[Download]

Axl should apologize to Slash.

Every member that left citied Axl's antics as a major/THE reason for their departures. Hes the common thread of consistency. And while I don't think ALL the blame should go to Axl, I think he holds more fault than any other individual member.

That being said, just let it go, and see things for what they are now. They should just both apologize to each other and see what happens from there.

No way.

The entire lineup is to blame equally.

I've been in various bands all of my life, obviously nowhere near the scale of GnR, but make a decent living playing 3-4 nights a week.

There is no way in hell I would ever, I mean E V A R!!!11!! sign the rights to my band away, ever. Plain and simple Slash and Duff were idiots and the band had piss poor management with Doug Goldstein. All of the internal issues/drama could of been squashed if they would of just got in a room and ironed the stuff out. Or split and go their separate ways. A really good management team would of been helpful to them.

Slash and Duff didn't call Axl on his BS and they should have

Slash and Duff shouldn't of been junkies, but they were.

I look at it like this. If I start a company or if any of you start a company, do you want the multi million dollar company in the hands of guys that are junkies? Everything you have worked your entire life for? I doubt it.

The entire band was out of control and no one was driving the ship. Sad, a band that big and huge and skilled...faded to nothing

Edited August 28, 2013 by Download

[evergreen_layne]

Axl should apologize to Slash.

+1

[Estranged Reality]

I am uncertain as to how much we can trust Marc's analysis. Hasn't he been off Axl's Christmas card list for quite a few years now?

What bugs me is that he always manages to slag Axl off in his posts. It's discreet, not too frequent but it's there.

Mainly over the book thing.

I appreciate what he offers to the forum, but that bugs me.

I think this is unfair. I don't sense any "slagging" but of course he has expressed what seems to be genuine disappointment in the dissolution of their friendship and how Axl's (in)actions let him down on a personal level. That being said, he's time and again defended Axl and said that he still cares deeply about him -- just that he was also deeply hurt by what happened re: the book. I've never seen him mention it unnecessarily or out of the context of a direct question relating to Axl/their friendship, so... I think perhaps you're looking too far into things, but let's leave it at that. I'd prefer this discussion route didn't continue.

Marc is great. I'm always surprised (and grateful) at how quick he responds whenever I post a question in his section.

Some of people's comments about Marc are disgusting. If a thread ever needed to be cleaned up it's this one.

I think the mods are a little busy deleting all those racist posts for Team Brazil.

He is great, and it's unfortunate that occasionally we run in to people trying to create trouble for him (not often, but as you can see with the posts you're referring to in this thread, it happens). We've warned people in the past about bashing Marc so please don't think we're allowing anything 'disgusting' to be said. Just because we didn't see/delete an offending post straight away doesn't mean it's on purpose; we probably just didn't see it yet. I'm not really sure why anyone would have anything bad to say about the guy since he's been absolutely nothing but open with all of us on a variety of topics, which frankly aren't going to be winning him many favours with Axl to begin with -- he doesn't really have a whole lot to gain from this anyway! It's really just a nice gesture on his part and it's been one of my favourite aspects of the forum lately.

And, just a reminder: UKSUBS outlined in the Canter Banter section that he (we) would be particularly strict about the rules when it came to Canter-related topics. Marc's doing us all a HUGE favor by posting so candidly here and being so open about everything. Please respect him and his time. Any further posts that truly cross the line and need to be deleted may result in stricter repercussions than normal--just consider this a fair warning.

I keep re-editing this post so if you have refreshed the page and seen it change a lot, my bad. Been up since 7, foggy brain.

[D-GenerationX]

I thought Axl said that the truth is out there and you can find it but people want there to be something more regarding the break up.

From everything Axl said it was a disagreement between him and slash over the direction of the music and band. (Not uncommon for the two to see things differently) then slash felt he could be successful without guns when he failed to gain power of the band. Slash leaves which upset Axl because regardless of the differences he knew slash's sound was important and hard to find a replacement. Axl begins building a new band with the gnr name and as rumors start going around that the band is about to appear and a new album is coming slash and duff sue Axl over the rights of the name. (Axl's rants at rio 2001 reflect this) apparently this is where many of the lies about Axl come out. He is framed as a dictator that forced the other members to give him the name. This pisses Axl off obviously. These guys leave the band and now want to sue him for the name. Neither slash or duff have admitted to lying so this could be one of the many lies axl talks about.

Anyways they lose the lawsuit or settle because Axl still owns the name. A few years later velvet revolver happens and slash goes on a media tear of axl which brought on more lies and which likely brought the most anger towards Slash.

Yet Axl never speaks coherently on any of this, so its hard to really rally to his side.

[Bobbo]

Axl should apologize to Slash.

Every member that left citied Axl's antics as a major/THE reason for their departures. Hes the common thread of consistency. And while I don't think ALL the blame should go to Axl, I think he holds more fault than any other individual member.

That being said, just let it go, and see things for what they are now. They should just both apologize to each other and see what happens from there.

No way.

The entire lineup is to blame equally.

I've been in various bands all of my life, obviously nowhere near the scale of GnR, but make a decent living playing 3-4 nights a week.

There is no way in hell I would ever, I mean E V A R!!!11!! sign the rights to my band away, ever. Plain and simple Slash and Duff were idiots and the band had piss poor management with Doug Goldstein. All of the internal issues/drama could of been squashed if they would of just got in a room and ironed the stuff out. Or split and go their separate ways. A really good management team would of been helpful to them.

Slash and Duff didn't call Axl on his BS and they should have

Slash and Duff shouldn't of been junkies, but they were.

I look at it like this. If I start a company or if any of you start a company, do you want the multi million dollar company in the hands of guys that are junkies? Everything you have worked your entire life for? I doubt it.

The entire band was out of control and no one was driving the ship. Sad, a band that big and huge and skilled...faded to nothing

Like I said now, and constantly in the past,slsh and co weren't perfect little angels. And in hindsight, they shouldn't have just signed over the name for whatever their reasons were.

But...every member that has left has cited Axl's antics as a major reason. Izzy, Duff, and Slash. And I doubt that when they did put Axl at the helm, they pictured things getting as bad as they did. From what I've gathered, it just seemed like an easier solution than dragging it out through years of turmoil, and that the public wouldn't take "GNR" seriously without any of the other main players. Turns out they were mostly right.

Just because they put somebody in charge, doesn't mean they thought they were gonna have to deal with Stalin like tactics, which most involved claim was the case.

And no, I wouldn't trust something of that magnitude to "junkies". But during the final stretch, Slash and Duff were clean and were showing competence where Axl wasn't. They didn't see eye to eye in the end, and Axl took drastic (and imo unnecessary) actions to "fix" it.

[rockerman]

I thought Axl said that the truth is out there and you can find it but people want there to be something more regarding the break up.

From everything Axl said it was a disagreement between him and slash over the direction of the music and band. (Not uncommon for the two to see things differently) then slash felt he could be successful without guns when he failed to gain power of the band. Slash leaves which upset Axl because regardless of the differences he knew slash's sound was important and hard to find a replacement. Axl begins building a new band with the gnr name and as rumors start going around that the band is about to appear and a new album is coming slash and duff sue Axl over the rights of the name. (Axl's rants at rio 2001 reflect this) apparently this is where many of the lies about Axl come out. He is framed as a dictator that forced the other members to give him the name. This pisses Axl off obviously. These guys leave the band and now want to sue him for the name. Neither slash or duff have admitted to lying so this could be one of the many lies axl talks about.

Anyways they lose the lawsuit or settle because Axl still owns the name. A few years later velvet revolver happens and slash goes on a media tear of axl which brought on more lies and which likely brought the most anger towards Slash.

perhaps but Axl started to rebuild the band prior to Slash exiting stage left. He didnt think he could top Guns but the GnR he was part of no longer existed. Axl had quit the band took the name and reformed the band(a legal manouver) Duff and Slash were in essence the same as what these fellas are...hired guns. Axl brought in tobias..got rid of Gilby and started to recruit a second lead guitarist...Zack Wyld from ozzy and even sought our Fink before Slash was outta there...A big FUCK YOU to Slash and Duff by the way. The core of the music unit was now under Axls thumb and Slash and Duff were not consulted ..it would be Axls way or no way at all. Plus Axl wasnt keen on jumping into the studio...with all his personal shit and lawsuits to deal with..thus GNr was on hold indefinately until Axl got his shit together...this would have meant Slash and the rest of the band had to wait until Axl got around to attending his vocal/lyrist duties IF and WHEN he saw fit...... So years roll by and offers come in to use the GNR catalogue for lucrative movie soundtracks and other commercial uses...uses that should have made some revenue for the old band...and Axl cockblocked them for no other reason than because he could. To show his spite..he attempted to rerecord AFD with his new unit to further diminish the old bands royaties and revenue...of course they are going to sue because Axl had clearly demonstrated that he was unreasonable and unreachable...

[IncitingChaos]

Rockerman- I think Axl held out on Slash coming back for a while. In the 1999 interview with Louder he just says it was hard to do a traditional rock record because slash left. He sat on the phone for 4 hours with slash trying to get him to come back. 2002 he said he would have never brought zack in had he'd known slash was so upset. He wanted to see what they would come up with together not make him a full time member.

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Axl probably felt duff and slash were on the verge of death from the alcohol and drug abuse. His takeover of guns might have have been a way to make decisions when slash and duff no longer seemed capable or in the right frame of mind. I really don't know but Axl always had an urge to create music that was different than what he did before. That's probably the artist in him. Him bringing in new people was likely his idea of capturing a new sound. Now that contradicts him saying he wanted to do a traditional rock record but who's to say what Axls idea of a traditional rock record is.

On slash's side he probably felt more important than standing behind axl and that's fine. Slash is going to go down as one of the greats. He has every right to believe he deserves better treatment and could move on to do great things outside of gnr. His issue was alcohol and drugs got a bit excessive.

I like Marc's section his answers fill in some of the grey areas and in many ways confirms the truth is in the middle.

[dalsh327]

The whole "slash crawled back to Axl and begged to come back" is heresay at best. We know he went there. That's it.

For all we know he just wanted to end their little dick measuring contest, and end the hatred. And he was drunk when he tried.

Don't forget this was in 2005. When slash just finished a successful stint with velvet revolver and won his first Grammy, and Axl looked like he was dead and buried professionally. Who really looked like they needed who at this point?

It was more Perla dragging Slash to Axl's home and venting to Beta, but when you're suing each other, it's the worst possible time to "have a chat". Like I said, it's like having an ugly custody battle, and your soon to be ex-wife is coming up for a booty call... she has no hidden agenda behind it? That's how I read the situation.

The lawyers were probably making things worse than they should have been. They're the ones looking to drag shit out and make money off of stupid rock stars.

[axlrod]

Reunion is good for a few occasional gig events but keep the current line-up.

[Bobbo]

Reunion is good for a few occasional gig events but keep the current line-up.

Why? What's the point? Not just asking you specifically, but in general.

If all the nu guys are gonna do is cover the real deal's stuff, why not just get the real deal back together?

And according to Chris Pitman, that's all we're gonna gonna get for now. All things considered, chances are we're never gonna get another officially released nu album.

I know the common argument is that they all hate each other and they'd only be in it for the money, and I can't help but laugh. That assertion is grossly exaggerated. Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steve, and Matt are all still friends, and seem to genuinely enjoy playing music together. Axl's cool with Duff, Izzy, and I think even made amends with Sorum back in '06. The only big issue here is between Axl and Slash that would HAVE to be resolved for a reunion to even happen anyways.

Bumble, Tommy, and Fortus have all stated in interviews they weren't even fans of GNR prior to being hired by Axl. And yet all they have really done for the majority of the time they've been playing with Axl is playing the heyday hits for the overwhelming majority of the show. Especially regarding Fortus and Bumble. Dollar signs are more a factor for the nu guys than they are for what most consider to be the real deal.

So at this point, I just can't even begin to fathom why ANYONE would want a decent cover band playing the hits for nostalgic purposes instead of the actual methods to the madness.

[NicoRourke]

I think this is unfair. I don't sense any "slagging" but of course he has expressed what seems to be genuine disappointment in the dissolution of their friendship and how Axl's (in)actions let him down on a personal level. That being said, he's time and again defended Axl and said that he still cares deeply about him -- just that he was also deeply hurt by what happened re: the book. I've never seen him mention it unnecessarily or out of the context of a direct question relating to Axl/their friendship, so... I think perhaps you're looking too far into things, but let's leave it at that. I'd prefer this discussion route didn't continue.

I'm sorry if my comment was wrongly perceived - I am of course very grateful that Marc Canter is sharing stories with us - I read his section everyday.

It's not always easy to express something when English is not your first language.

[SoulMonster]

They also play songs off CD. And who knows, maybe they will add Going Down? And sooner or later they will release new music, I am sure.

[cheesecake]

They also play songs off CD. And who knows, maybe they will add Going Down? And sooner or later they will release new music, I am sure.

Yeah, in 2020.

[Roush]

I've just been reading through all of Canter's posts and he says that in 1991/1992 Axl had an idea that fans would be able to order copies of any live shows from the tour but couldn't make it happen.

That's pretty incredible and ironic. I mean, it's clear that Axl was one of these rare artists who is still a fan himself, and thinks about things from a fan's perspective. His old rant about not playing the same show every night and just jacking off to Appetite demonstrates that mindset.

Yet today when he's asked about when new music might come he says 'Don't know, don't care'.

He is winding down his career.

[SoulMonster]

They also play songs off CD. And who knows, maybe they will add Going Down? And sooner or later they will release new music, I am sure.

Yeah, in 2020.

That's only 6.5 more years

[cheesecake]

They also play songs off CD. And who knows, maybe they will add Going Down? And sooner or later they will release new music, I am sure.

Yeah, in 2020.

That's only 6.5 more years

It's great that you are full of positivity.

Hope Axl's still around by then when and if it gets released

[axlrod]

Reunion is good for a few occasional gig events but keep the current line-up.

Why? What's the point? Not just asking you specifically, but in general.

If all the nu guys are gonna do is cover the real deal's stuff, why not just get the real deal back together?

And according to Chris Pitman, that's all we're gonna gonna get for now. All things considered, chances are we're never gonna get another officially released nu album.

I know the common argument is that they all hate each other and they'd only be in it for the money, and I can't help but laugh. That assertion is grossly exaggerated. Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steve, and Matt are all still friends, and seem to genuinely enjoy playing music together. Axl's cool with Duff, Izzy, and I think even made amends with Sorum back in '06. The only big issue here is between Axl and Slash that would HAVE to be resolved for a reunion to even happen anyways.

Bumble, Tommy, and Fortus have all stated in interviews they weren't even fans of GNR prior to being hired by Axl. And yet all they have really done for the majority of the time they've been playing with Axl is playing the heyday hits for the overwhelming majority of the show. Especially regarding Fortus and Bumble. Dollar signs are more a factor for the nu guys than they are for what most consider to be the real deal.

So at this point, I just can't even begin to fathom why ANYONE would want a decent cover band playing the hits for nostalgic purposes instead of the actual methods to the madness.

Classic GNR is like a gold. They should tour occasionally with quality not quantity. Like the Rolling Stones. They can tour once or twice a year will make a history.

In real world, Axl owns GNR name and giving back the proper share to classic line up is impossible. There's no reasons for the ex-members to be hired guns again.

Keeping the current line up for the fans who love them, old and new fans have accumulated since 2008 or earlier. I love the songs Shackler's Revenge and Better, these songs are not Slash's type.

GNR current line up has been trending in every event gaining a majority positive reviews. Looking forward to hearing new songs in 2014.

[Bobbo]

They also play songs off CD. And who knows, maybe they will add Going Down? And sooner or later they will release new music, I am sure

They're down to just 4 CD songs max a night. 4 songs half the current nu guys had little-nothing to do with. 4 songs the majority of the audience doesn't care about nor would miss if they're gone. Whadda game changer .

As for new music, I'm quite confident we won't hear it unless it leaks or gets milked after Axl dies. Other than that I just can't see it. At all.

Only time will tell who is right, but I'm betting it will be me.

[Bobbo]

Reunion is good for a few occasional gig events but keep the current line-up.

Why? What's the point? Not just asking you specifically, but in general.

If all the nu guys are gonna do is cover the real deal's stuff, why not just get the real deal back together?

And according to Chris Pitman, that's all we're gonna gonna get for now. All things considered, chances are we're never gonna get another officially released nu album.

I know the common argument is that they all hate each other and they'd only be in it for the money, and I can't help but laugh. That assertion is grossly exaggerated. Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steve, and Matt are all still friends, and seem to genuinely enjoy playing music together. Axl's cool with Duff, Izzy, and I think even made amends with Sorum back in '06. The only big issue here is between Axl and Slash that would HAVE to be resolved for a reunion to even happen anyways.

Bumble, Tommy, and Fortus have all stated in interviews they weren't even fans of GNR prior to being hired by Axl. And yet all they have really done for the majority of the time they've been playing with Axl is playing the heyday hits for the overwhelming majority of the show. Especially regarding Fortus and Bumble. Dollar signs are more a factor for the nu guys than they are for what most consider to be the real deal.

So at this point, I just can't even begin to fathom why ANYONE would want a decent cover band playing the hits for nostalgic purposes instead of the actual methods to the madness.

Classic GNR is like a gold. They should tour occasionally with quality not quantity. Like the Rolling Stones. They can tour once or twice a year will make a history.

In real world, Axl owns GNR name and giving back the proper share to classic line up is impossible. There's no reasons for the ex-members to be hired guns again.

Keeping the current line up for the fans who love them, old and new fans have accumulated since 2008 or earlier. I love the songs Shackler's Revenge and Better, these songs are not Slash's type.

GNR current line up has been trending in every event gaining a majority positive reviews. Looking forward to hearing new songs in 2014.

But at the end of the day, no offense, people like you are small and few in number. Most people don't really give a shit about CD songs.

I agree a lot of kinks would have to be worked out. This is merely a hypothetical scenario that will probably never happen. But at the end of the day, if really all the nu guys are gonna do is cover what most see as the real deal, why not just reunite the real deal? Why would you want, essentially, a cover band performing Welcome to the Jungle instead?

Yes, they're good at playing the songs. But that's all they're good for/seen as by most of the masses. A parody. But nothing's quite like the authentic vibe of the people who actually created the actual music. Especially when you factor in my previous points.

And erm. Yeah. Good luck with those new songs in 2014

[wasted]

People not giving a shit works both ways, people don't care about new material, but others don't care enough about the old line up not to buy a new GNR record.

[Bobbo]

Erm...depends...I think people would at least anticipate it and give it a chance, while the nu guys already blew theirs with the masses.

But most would rather have Axl, slash, izzy, duff, Matt and/or Steve, and dizzy playing the hits for the sake of nostalgia and sacrifice the nu songs, than having the nu band with a few nu song.

[D-GenerationX]

Erm...depends...I think people would at least anticipate it and give it a chance, while the nu guys already blew theirs with the masses.

But most would rather have Axl, slash, izzy, duff, Matt and/or Steve, and dizzy playing the hits for the sake of nostalgia and sacrifice the nu songs, than having the nu band with a few nu song.

The original band also means multiple nights in packed arenas in every major city.

And I mean full arenas, 20,000. Nothing black curtained off to make it "more intimate".