Towelie Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 History is a terrible album.Ridiculous comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Jackson's music began to wane when he stopped being a pop musician and decided to imitate R Kelly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Jackson's music began to wane when he stopped being a pop musician and decided to imitate R Kelly. Ridiculous comment 2. Have you actually heard HIStory? It has one song written by R Kelly, the rest are largely autobiographical, aggressive sounding industrial funk/rock tracks, with an orchestral murder ballad and a Beatles cover thrown into the mix. Find me an R Kelly song that sounds like this and I'll eat my words: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) I don't agree with the R. Kelly stuff but I do get what he's saying. Not to say that the post-Bad stuff was bad, but the style switch to a more new jack swingy sound is something I wish he hadn't done. A lot of his 90s songs sound dated to hell as a result. If I could narrow it down to one single thing I don't like about his later work, it's that deep, computerized, layered voice that appears a lot on his post-Thriller work. Also doesn't help that his voice lost a lot of power after Thriller. Baby Be Mine works entirely because of his voice. Probably wouldn't have been able to pull that off in 95. Edited February 16, 2015 by bacardimayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I don't agree with the R. Kelly stuff but I do get what he's saying.Not to say that the post-Bad stuff was bad, but the style switch to a more new jack swingy sound is something I wish he hadn't done. A lot of his 90s songs sound dated to hell as a result. If I could narrow it down to one single thing I don't like about his later work, it's that deep, computerized, layered voice that appears a lot on his post-Thriller work.Also doesn't help that his voice lost a lot of power after Thriller. Baby Be Mine works entirely because of his voice. Probably wouldn't have been able to pull that off in 95.That sums it up.Maybe the R Kelly comment only applies to the ballads but, beginning with Dangerous he started doing this heavy-handed overproduced RnB. The pop influences and hooklines disappeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Drama Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 History is a terrible album.Some songs shouldn't be on there, but no overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandallFlagg Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I seriously dig the record Dangerous, I've been listening to it a lot recently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppelin Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I don't agree with the R. Kelly stuff but I do get what he's saying.Not to say that the post-Bad stuff was bad, but the style switch to a more new jack swingy sound is something I wish he hadn't done. A lot of his 90s songs sound dated to hell as a result. If I could narrow it down to one single thing I don't like about his later work, it's that deep, computerized, layered voice that appears a lot on his post-Thriller work.Also doesn't help that his voice lost a lot of power after Thriller. Baby Be Mine works entirely because of his voice. Probably wouldn't have been able to pull that off in 95.That sums it up.Maybe the R Kelly comment only applies to the ballads but, beginning with Dangerous he started doing this heavy-handed overproduced RnB. The pop influences and hooklines disappeared.I kind of agree with the last part there. But where some may see it as a negative, I liked the stylistic changes. He still had hooks in his music, but they weren't the same kind of pop hooks that were so abundant in his earlier works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Towelie, what happened on the History tour?I watched the Seoul gig and it is embarrassing for many reasons. Firstly, there is the miming. There is even a bit where he is singing but he is not even on stage haha! They had turned the song on but he had obviously not finished his make up or whatever he does backstage. You also see his hand movement when he requests his mic to be turned on for those little ad lib bits and these shockingly bad vocals come on. Terrible.And then this Korean kid jumps on his platform but he cannot stop the song because he is miming haha; and he is singing about Heal the Children and all of these Jesus do-gooder rubbish and the hilarious thing is, as soon as that platform lands, the kid is snatched by about six sinister looking heavies haha. I bet that kid is in a Nevada grave somewhere.I puked on the sequence with the tank and the soldier.Here is the gig if anybody wants to see it. Honestly, if you want a good laugh, in a Spinal Tap manner, I recommend it,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alHTHYDwztQThis is how I prefer to remember Michael. This is genius, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) ^^ The HIStory tour was mostly lip-synced. Some fans speculated that he'd had laryngitis, I'm not sure if there was any truth to that though. Either way, the few songs he did perform live on the tour were very rough.He seemed to be in much better shape vocally speaking for This Is It, there were some stunning vocal moments when you consider it was just rehearsals, so whatever the problem/excuse was on the HIStory tour, it obviously was temporary.Most MJ fans hate the HIStory tour for all the lip-syncing. The only redeeming thing about the HIStory concerts was the dancing. His Billie Jean performances in particular were on fire on that tour.Also, a lot of the things you are referring to, such as the mad Korean stage invader and not coming onto stage till half way through a song were done on purpose. He loved doing things like that to get people wondering what was going on. He regularly did stuff like that on his live shows, the same way he pretended he couldn't get Slash to stop playing guitar at the 1995 MTV Awards performance. There's a particularly random one about a bug being on the stage and calling security to come and rescue it. It was all staged. Edited February 17, 2015 by Towelie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Are you sure the Korean kid was staged? The kid was on a platform floating through the air without any support. 'Elf n' Safety would have had a field day. Michael - and this is in his defense - seemed immensely worried; there is a bit where he tried to pull his arm around the bar and finely settles on holding him (no jokes people!!). And then there is the way the kid is bundled off at the end haha.How much was the Dangerous Tour lip-synced? I have seen the Budapest show and I noticed, some bits were and some bits weren't.You can always tell, can't you, somehow? Michael lip-syncs very well but you still, can somehow, tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkuk04 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Break Of Dawn from Invincible. Great song. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Diesel - I even reckon Jarvis Cocker's stage invasion was staged. Week after The Brits 96, the two biggest climbers in the UK album charts were HIStory and Pulp's A Different Class. Michael started pulling these wild publicity stunts as far back as the Thriller days. It is well documented that he planned most of these things in advance. I believe he was a lot more shrewd and calculating about controlling his own press than people realise (although eventually that would backfire on him).Dangerous tour has a lot more live singing and of a much better quality too. Only songs he mimed were Jam, Thriller, Will You Be There, Black or White, Smooth Criminal and the first half of Man In The Mirror. Edited February 17, 2015 by Towelie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Do me a favour, they were looking to nick Jarvis around the time! And surely he wouldntve got dropped off that US Tour.I never knew Jacko lip synced. Then again who could blame him, hectic dance routines and that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Nahh, not buying it. Jarvis was questioned for two hours backstage before being locked up. He then was arrested. Jackson's lawyers tried to find some charge to pin on him. And, immediately at least, backfired. Many people now find his stage invasion admirable but - rather strangely - the UK tabloids were squarely in Jackson's corner. And, I think it was you who said, Pulp lost a lucrative tour. If this was fabricated between the pair, it completely backfired on Cocker's part.Besides, he did not know what the hell to do when he was up there. He stands there like a plank and comes up with that hilarious fart waft thing. The whole thing was very, un-Jackson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Nahh, not buying it. Jarvis was questioned for two hours backstage before being locked up. He then was arrested. Jackson's lawyers tried to find some charge to pin on him. And, immediately at least, backfired. Many people now find his stage invasion admirable but - rather strangely - the UK tabloids were squarely in Jackson's corner. And, I think it was you who said, Pulp lost a lucrative tour. If this was fabricated between the pair, it completely backfired on Cocker's part.Besides, he did not know what the hell to do when he was up there. He stands there like a plank and comes up with that hilarious fart waft thing. The whole thing was very, un-Jackson.Yeah, thats more accurate, i couldn't remember exactly but i knew filth were involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I just recall reading a passage from an MJ biography where it went into a time in the mid-80s when MJ was at the American Music Awards and had planned for a stage invasion from a "crazed fan" to take place while he was accepting his award. Apparently the person they got to do it couldn't get past the security onstage as they were not made aware of the PR stunt. MJ was giving his acceptance speech, rambling on for ages waiting for this person to mob him and eventually realised something must've gone wrong. Afterwards he laughed it off to his managers saying "I guess the joke was on us in the end."If the Cocker incident really wasn't staged, then MJ must've been cursed while performing Earth Song. He had the crazed fan stage invasion in Korea, the supposed stage collapse in Germany 1999 concert, Jarvis Cocker at The Brits.... all during the last half of his Earth Song performances. Coincidence much? I reckon he loved the drama of it all and knew it would make waves in the press and get people talking about his performance.He performed Remember The Time at an award ceremony in the early 90s in a wheelchair only to get up at the end of the performance and start dancing and ad-libbing.That time he performed with Slash at the 1995 MTV Awards he had a security guard try to get him to stop playing, as if he was so out of control.... and then he did the exact same set-up when Dave Navarro played with him a few years later.Another example is when he pretended there was a bug on the stage and called security to get it in Munich 1997 and then did the exact same thing at another date of the tour. He pulled shit like this all the time. Edited February 17, 2015 by Towelie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'd never heard about the stage collapse, the wheelchair or Navarro things. I need to poke around and find footage of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) I gotta disagree with you Towlie, Invinsable is a terrible album. I've tried and tried to get into it, but it's just awful. Like I said before give me; Ben, got to be there, music and me, and even rockin robin over that turd, which isn't saying much really. But I agree with you about history, for the most part anyways. I think it is a very good album, but he should have put blood on the dance floor on it. Even though I do like history, I do feel all of his previous albums were better. It has it's strong moments, but not enough of them. Earth song and they don't care about us are by far the best on it, with you are not alone and 2bad being decent songs. Scream on the other hand I feel is very overrated. But unlike many of his hardcore fans, I feel that childhood, little Suzie, and stranger in Moscow are boring ass songs. I've never seen the appeal of any of those 3. But his version of come together is freaking great imo. Its my 2nd favorite version of that song, behind the original of course. If he would have put blood on the dance floor, morphine, ghosts, and is this scary on history, then it would have been great. But as is, it's above average. Very similar in many regards as CD is imo.Overall both history and dangerous are pretty close in quality imo. But the best songs on dangerous are better than the best on history. Jam, black or white, remember the time, will you be there, and give in to me far outweigh anything from history imo. But the rest of dangerous is awful imo, so the average tracks on history are better. DS, 2bad, tabloid junkie, and money are much better than in the closet and some of the other turds from dangerous. I agree with majority here, Bad was Michaels last great album, he got worse as he went along, with Invinsable being his lowest. But I must add that I don't consider any post death albums from any artist as real albums. Even Coda from Zeppelin is not a real Zeppelin album imo. Edited February 21, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 For me OTW and Thriller are Jackson at his peak, then with each subsequent album there is a falling off of quality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) History is a better album then I thought. I have not listened to it in ages but there is some good stuff on here. Still prefer the '80s stuff mind.PSI have changed. I even like the soppy R Kelly song! Edited February 23, 2015 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 History is a better album then I thought. I have not listened to it in ages but there is some good stuff on here. Still prefer the '80s stuff mind.PSI have changed. I even like the soppy R Kelly song!I've never been able to get into You Are Not Alone. It's one of a couple tracks on the album that I just haven't ever liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 It is soppy as shit but I have warmed to it. Bit of a guilty pleasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 You Are Not Alone is so good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Drama Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I gotta disagree with you Towlie, Invinsable is a terrible album. I've tried and tried to get into it, but it's just awful. Like I said before give me; Ben, got to be there, music and me, and even rockin robin over that turd, which isn't saying much really. But I agree with you about history, for the most part anyways. I think it is a very good album, but he should have put blood on the dance floor on it. Even though I do like history, I do feel all of his previous albums were better. It has it's strong moments, but not enough of them. Earth song and they don't care about us are by far the best on it, with you are not alone and 2bad being decent songs. Scream on the other hand I feel is very overrated. But unlike many of his hardcore fans, I feel that childhood, little Suzie, and stranger in Moscow are boring ass songs. I've never seen the appeal of any of those 3. But his version of come together is freaking great imo. Its my 2nd favorite version of that song, behind the original of course. If he would have put blood on the dance floor, morphine, ghosts, and is this scary on history, then it would have been great. But as is, it's above average. Very similar in many regards as CD is imo.Overall both history and dangerous are pretty close in quality imo. But the best songs on dangerous are better than the best on history. Jam, black or white, remember the time, will you be there, and give in to me far outweigh anything from history imo. But the rest of dangerous is awful imo, so the average tracks on history are better. DS, 2bad, tabloid junkie, and money are much better than in the closet and some of the other turds from dangerous. I agree with majority here, Bad was Michaels last great album, he got worse as he went along, with Invinsable being his lowest. But I must add that I don't consider any post death albums from any artist as real albums. Even Coda from Zeppelin is not a real Zeppelin album imo.Stranger is one of his best fo sho. Little Susie great but overblown. Childhood is pure Triple Distilled dog shit.You Are Not Alone is so good.I can't stop tearing up on the outro and I still don't know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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