Fernando " we are putting together a game plan to give you what you need the most, information"

[Gagarin]

If they came out and said "no new music, Axl doesn't care to put anymore out, it's not the label, it's not business, he just doesn't want to", that would be information I'd appreciate. I'd also appreciate hearing the opposite.

Anything else,

tldr.

Really, it's always been about hearing music.

[Apollo]

I always like Fernando his a really cool guy if you meet him and laid back

Yeah because THAT'S what it takes to run a giant, global business (which GNR should be at this point): being cool and laid back.

That's how Apple became such a success, right? Because some illiterate child took over the company and was laid back?

Best post of the topic.

Except for the fact that the skill-set needed to manage a rock band is quite different and ridiculously small compared to what is needed in a fledgling company that will rise to become a multinational mega corporation. A company like Apple needed to not only succeed at developing best-in-class technology but also position themselves in the market to leverage their technical advantages, and this requires highly experienced people with a diverse background from research and development, business development, marketing & sales, strategic alliances, business negotiations, intellectual property rights, merger and acquisition, etc. This is helluva lot more complex than just managing a rock band. To put it in context, Apple has 72,800 permanent employees to take care of all the things that needs to be done, GN'R has a dozen or so when not on tour.

Sigh.

In your quest to educate, ridicule and win every topic you always go overboard with taking everything so literal and 100% miss the point. You must be a blast at parties.

When somebody says they are coming over to your house and says "I will be there in a minute"..............after exactly 61 seconds do you call them and berate them because they didn't get there in exactly ONE minute?

This wasn't a literal comparison of the inner workings of GnR and Apple computer. The guy could have used ANY famous company as an example. You totally missed a point that everybody else in the world would have gotten.

People are complaining about Fernando's skill (or lack there of) in managing one of the most iconic rock bands in the world.

Somebody defended Fernando's "skill" by saying he was a cool and laid back guy. YOU, of all people, should have attacked that guy for implying that being cool and laid back were good skills in knowing how to run and market a band. But for some reason you chose not to educate/ridicule and win a war of words with him. Why not?

Anyway.......so then another poster made the point that being cool and laid back weren't the skills needed to run a band. He then used that example with Apple computers.

He didn't say the two were exactly the same.

He make an exact comparison.

Is there a word for the tactic that you and guys like MSL use when debating people? You guys never actually address the actual point, but you sidestep it or twist the point around to make some weird point that really doesn't make sense. You are so obsessed with arguing or trying to win every conversation that you've lost your ability to just have a normal conversation without twisting the point around.

[SoulMonster]

I always like Fernando his a really cool guy if you meet him and laid back

Yeah because THAT'S what it takes to run a giant, global business (which GNR should be at this point): being cool and laid back.

That's how Apple became such a success, right? Because some illiterate child took over the company and was laid back?

Best post of the topic.

Except for the fact that the skill-set needed to manage a rock band is quite different and ridiculously small compared to what is needed in a fledgling company that will rise to become a multinational mega corporation. A company like Apple needed to not only succeed at developing best-in-class technology but also position themselves in the market to leverage their technical advantages, and this requires highly experienced people with a diverse background from research and development, business development, marketing & sales, strategic alliances, business negotiations, intellectual property rights, merger and acquisition, etc. This is helluva lot more complex than just managing a rock band. To put it in context, Apple has 72,800 permanent employees to take care of all the things that needs to be done, GN'R has a dozen or so when not on tour.

Sigh.

In your quest to educate, ridicule and win every topic you always go overboard with taking everything so literal and 100% miss the point. You must be a blast at parties.

Thinking that my behaviour in written arguments on anonymous internet forums in any way defines me as a social person in live contexts is exactly what I would expect from you.

When somebody says they are coming over to your house and says "I will be there in a minute"..............after exactly 61 seconds do you call them and berate them because they didn't get there in exactly ONE minute?

No, but when people in a discussion claims that a rock band is like a "giant, global business", then I point out the huge differences.

This wasn't a literal comparison of the inner workings of GnR and Apple computer. The guy could have used ANY famous company as an example. You totally missed a point that everybody else in the world would have gotten.

He compared GN'R to a "giant, global business" and used Apple as an example. Regardless of what other "giant, global business" he would have used, my retort would have been the same. GN'R ISN'T like a "giant, global business" and will never be one. GN'R is a rock band and will never, ever end up with the complex structure and substantial payroll of ANY giant, global business. It is just a flawed comparison.

People are complaining about Fernando's skill (or lack there of) in managing one of the most iconic rock bands in the world.

Somebody defended Fernando's "skill" by saying he was a cool and laid back guy. YOU, of all people, should have attacked that guy for implying that being cool and laid back were good skills in knowing how to run and market a band. But for some reason you chose not to educate/ridicule and win a war of words with him. Why not?

Because I didn't make the mistake of interpreting ThinkAboutYou's post as some argument for why Fernando is a good manager, but just as a general comment about him. I just don't have a need to twist everything that is said so it fits into my own deranged agenda.

Anyway.......so then another poster made the point that being cool and laid back weren't the skills needed to run a band. He then used that example with Apple computers.

No, Groghan, he implied that the needs of a "large, global business" are identical to the needs of a rock band, and THEN he used Apple Inc as an example. If you still don't get this may I suggest you give it an hour or two?

[volcano62]

Did some fool compare GNR to Apple?

[Bards]

I'm ready for a fight to the death between volcano and groghan. No matter what happens, everybody wins.

[Bono]

No, calling someone pathetic because you don't like something they said is never warranted. The update was in no way, shape or form an insult of any kind. It was polite if nothing else. The impoliteness was introduced by those engaging in name-calling.

You are also completely off-base in your last paragraph. The use of quotations in conjunction with the term "GN'R fans" was meant to indicate that being a fan has nothing to do with whether or not you choose to insult Fernando simply because you didn't like what he wrote. You can be a fan and choose not to hurl any personal insults or attacks towards Fernando for an otherwise polite statement.

Ali

Haha! No Ali your use of quotation marks was an attempt to imply those who don't worship the ground these fools walk on are not real fans like you. You don't fool anyone. Your overwhelming desire to defend the holy one and his tribe has made it so you can't even see the forest for the trees. I mean seriously "an otherwise polite statement"? .... give me a fucking break. Yeah he released that statement for the benefit of the fans. What a swell guy. He's so polite. Pfft. Wake up dude!

[volcano62]

No, calling someone pathetic because you don't like something they said is never warranted. The update was in no way, shape or form an insult of any kind. It was polite if nothing else. The impoliteness was introduced by those engaging in name-calling.

You are also completely off-base in your last paragraph. The use of quotations in conjunction with the term "GN'R fans" was meant to indicate that being a fan has nothing to do with whether or not you choose to insult Fernando simply because you didn't like what he wrote. You can be a fan and choose not to hurl any personal insults or attacks towards Fernando for an otherwise polite statement.

Ali

Haha! No Ali your use of quotation marks was an attempt to imply those who don't worship the ground these fools walk on are not real fans like you. You don't fool anyone. Your overwhelming desire to defend the holy one and his tribe has made it so you can't even see the forest for the trees. I mean seriously "an otherwise polite statement"? .... give me a fucking break. Yeah he released that statement for the benefit of the fans. What a swell guy. He's so polite. Pfft. Wake up dude!

Wtf? Ali is a great guy, very well educated and spoken... Wish I could at the same about you. Edited October 30, 2013 by volcano62

[Ali]

No, calling someone pathetic because you don't like something they said is never warranted. The update was in no way, shape or form an insult of any kind. It was polite if nothing else. The impoliteness was introduced by those engaging in name-calling.

You are also completely off-base in your last paragraph. The use of quotations in conjunction with the term "GN'R fans" was meant to indicate that being a fan has nothing to do with whether or not you choose to insult Fernando simply because you didn't like what he wrote. You can be a fan and choose not to hurl any personal insults or attacks towards Fernando for an otherwise polite statement.

Ali

Haha! No Ali your use of quotation marks was an attempt to imply those who don't worship the ground these fools walk on are not real fans like you. You don't fool anyone. Your overwhelming desire to defend the holy one and his tribe has made it so you can't even see the forest for the trees. I mean seriously "an otherwise polite statement"? .... give me a fucking break. Yeah he released that statement for the benefit of the fans. What a swell guy. He's so polite. Pfft. Wake up dude!

Again, your interpretation of my motivation is completely incorrect.

Ali

[Bono]

I'm at a loss for words at how little common sense people have. The comparison between Guns N' Roses was not literal. Holy fucking shit some people have absolute zero ability to grasp simple points. It's like you're too damn smart for your own good that you miss what's being said an over analyze shit to the point your response has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

No shit Apple is different than GnR but the fact remains GNR is HUGE brand and should be run by a competent management team. Instead they are run by people who clearly have no clue and that HUGE brand is diminishing daily. Take U2 for example. According to most they are well past their prime yet they are bigger now than ever in terms of what they generate. Anyone think that'd be possible if Bono's maid and her son were running the show?

The people defending team Brazil in regards to their management skills need to stop it.

[SoulMonster]

No shit Apple is different than GnR but the fact remains GNR is HUGE brand and should be run by a competent management team.

And the fact remains that your argument was that GN'R should be run like a "giant, global business" .

[Bono]

Wtf? Ali is a great guy, very well educated and spoken... Wish I could at the same about you.

Education without common sense isn't impressive regardless of how hard you try to be well spoken. Using dialogue in a way that makes you think "Who the hell talks like this?" isn't being well spoken.

[DieselDaisy]

I always like Fernando his a really cool guy if you meet him and laid back

Yeah because THAT'S what it takes to run a giant, global business (which GNR should be at this point): being cool and laid back.

That's how Apple became such a success, right? Because some illiterate child took over the company and was laid back?

Best post of the topic.

Except for the fact that the skill-set needed to manage a rock band is quite different and ridiculously small compared to what is needed in a fledgling company that will rise to become a multinational mega corporation. A company like Apple needed to not only succeed at developing best-in-class technology but also position themselves in the market to leverage their technical advantages, and this requires highly experienced people with a diverse background from research and development, business development, marketing & sales, strategic alliances, business negotiations, intellectual property rights, merger and acquisition, etc. This is helluva lot more complex than just managing a rock band. To put it in context, Apple has 72,800 permanent employees to take care of all the things that needs to be done, GN'R has a dozen or so when not on tour.

I am not sure I would be so fast in dismissing the analogy out hand. There are some close correspondence between, the attributes for being a rock manager, and the attributes for being a head of something like Apple. You yourself said, ''highly experienced people with a diverse background from research and development, business development, marketing & sales, strategic alliances, business negotiations, intellectual property rights, merger and acquisition..''. Many of those items you mention - 'experience', 'diverse background', ''marketing a sales'', ''business negotiations'', ''property rights'' - are attributes and tasks applicable to rock management also. Or to rephrase the point, does rock management require inexperienced people from similar backgrounds who do not know anything about sales, business or property rights?

[Bono]

No shit Apple is different than GnR but the fact remains GNR is HUGE brand and should be run by a competent management team.

And the fact remains that your argument was that GN'R should be run like a "giant, global business" .

And the fact remains I never even said that but nice try. Once again though despite us dumbing it down for you and making the point crystal clear, you still miss it.

[SoulMonster]

I always like Fernando his a really cool guy if you meet him and laid back

Yeah because THAT'S what it takes to run a giant, global business (which GNR should be at this point): being cool and laid back.

That's how Apple became such a success, right? Because some illiterate child took over the company and was laid back?

Best post of the topic.

Except for the fact that the skill-set needed to manage a rock band is quite different and ridiculously small compared to what is needed in a fledgling company that will rise to become a multinational mega corporation. A company like Apple needed to not only succeed at developing best-in-class technology but also position themselves in the market to leverage their technical advantages, and this requires highly experienced people with a diverse background from research and development, business development, marketing & sales, strategic alliances, business negotiations, intellectual property rights, merger and acquisition, etc. This is helluva lot more complex than just managing a rock band. To put it in context, Apple has 72,800 permanent employees to take care of all the things that needs to be done, GN'R has a dozen or so when not on tour.

I am not sure I would be so fast in dismissing the analogy out hand. There are some close correspondence between, the attributes for being a rock manager, and the attributes for being a head of something like Apple. You yourself said, ''highly experienced people with a diverse background from research and development, business development, marketing & sales, strategic alliances, business negotiations, intellectual property rights, merger and acquisition..''. Many of those items you mention - 'experience', 'diverse background', ''marketing a sales'', ''business negotiations'', ''property rights'' - are attributes and tasks applicable to rock management also. Or to rephrase the point, does rock management require inexperienced people from similar backgrounds who do not know anything about sales, business or property rights?

Nah, but it is the sheer difference in volume. Look at the employee numbers for any "giant, global business" and compare it with the typical employee numbers of a band. These just aren't comparable

No shit Apple is different than GnR but the fact remains GNR is HUGE brand and should be run by a competent management team.

And the fact remains that your argument was that GN'R should be run like a "giant, global business" .

And the fact remains I never even said that but nice try. Once again though despite us dumbing it down for you and making the point crystal clear, you still miss it.

Oh sorry, it wasn't you who said it.

[hudsonsaul]

I'm at a loss for words at how little common sense people have. The comparison between Guns N' Roses was not literal. Holy fucking shit some people have absolute zero ability to grasp simple points. It's like you're too damn smart for your own good that you miss what's being said an over analyze shit to the point your response has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

No shit Apple is different than GnR but the fact remains GNR is HUGE brand and should be run by a competent management team. Instead they are run by people who clearly have no clue and that HUGE brand is diminishing daily. Take U2 for example. According to most they are well past their prime yet they are bigger now than ever in terms of what they generate. Anyone think that'd be possible if Bono's maid and her son were running the show?

The people defending team Brazil in regards to their management skills need to stop it.

Very good point imo.

I never really thought about it, and just took it as is with the whole Fernando / Beta management situation. I certainly don't think they are even close to being the right ppl for the job,...sure they might be the right ppl to support Axl, even help advise him, and be his PA(s),...but I'm not convinced they are the right team with the best interests in GNR or have the capability & experience to do gnr justice.

You're also right in the whole 'diminishing daily' comment. Sad but true.

[ARBeast]

Even if "GN'R fans" are used to years and years of bullshit, I don't see how that would warrant the personal attacks. Skepticism? Cynicism? Sure, I understand. But, you can express those things without calling someone a loser or saying they're pathetic.

Ali

When the "update" is an obvious bullshit line intended to do nothing more than buy more time and string fans along, calling it or him pathetic is fully warranted. The "update" is an insult to the fans who have supported these guys. It's yet another episode in the never ending disregard and unappreciation of the fanbase by the management and the man himself. Not all that hard to figure out, yet there are people who inexplicably look at it as being polite and courteous to the fans. It's unbelievable how blind some people can be. When an individual or organization continues to insult the people who support them by using them, insulting their intelligence, taking them for granted then it's perfectly fine to express how you really feel, even if that means tossing out tame personal insult like "the dude is pathetic" or expressing whata fucking joke it is that someone like Fernando is the spokesman for Guns N' Roses. And that does not mean people are worked up. It just means they're calling spade a spade. Unfortunately some can never figure that out.

what's also pathetic is referring to GnR fans as "GnR fans" in some weak attempt to suggest they aren't really fans. Guess in some people's minds you aren't really a fan if you call things the way you see them. Only way you can be a fan is if you praise every move the GnR organization makes. All those who think Fernando is pathetic please hand in your GnR fan card because you are a phony. Not a real fan. Real fans support In a "positive" manner no matter what. C'mon people hand them over.

Let me tell you something about manners. Manners is what life is all about! Axl and this band, even though you think they're a cover band, when they're more of a band than aerosmith and half of what's out there today! You have no right to be disrespectful!

Axl gives his life for us. Hell, he gives his life for us. And you repay him like that? What kind of fan are you. If you're going to say he's not good then wow lets see you try better!!

Just because someone says something, doesn't mean you have to insult them for it. No matter what. Threaten you for your life even...like, who cares!! let it go and be a friggin adult!! You don't have anything good to say about GNR, then go away never talk again waahhhhhhhhh wahhhhhhhh

And I mean this with all due respect, just be honest with all of us and say this because that's what I read from your original message. Just putting my glasses on you, that's all.

I'm not going to insult you personally, but I question your drug use. Sorry, but wow, get a grip. Fernando is a douche. He's 35 years old and lives with his mommy, and mooches off of a rock star. He's not qualified for any position of importance on the face of the planet. If Columbus didn't discover the world was flat, tat way Fernando could some day come out of Beta's glorious womb, just to fall the fuck off of it.

He hurts this band more than helps. For the love of god, release an album already.

Edited October 30, 2013 by ARBeast

[Definite_Maybe]

That picture always creeps me the fuck out...

I wish people would stop posting it

that's some seriously frightening imagery.

Internet bully!

..is it a man or a woman ?

either way, i guess it's a scary Axl fan, probably the type that posts here and don't think much of Slash

Lots of trannies in Brasil

THAT'S FROM BRAZIL?!

..is he/she part of Team Brazil..

It was inevitable that a photo of Volcano would surface.

[Gagarin]

"Axl gives his life for us. Hell, he gives his life for us. And you repay him like that?"

Dude, what?

We repay him by buying his stuff. We don't owe him anything. He doesn't owe us anything, either.

Axl isn't looking for disciples or something. Get a grip. "Live your life. If something here works for you, then good."

Edited October 30, 2013 by Gagarin

[ThinkAboutYou]

That picture always creeps me the fuck out...

I wish people would stop posting it

that's some seriously frightening imagery.

Internet bully!

..is it a man or a woman ?

either way, i guess it's a scary Axl fan, probably the type that posts here and don't think much of Slash

Lots of trannies in Brasil

THAT'S FROM BRAZIL?!

..is he/she part of Team Brazil..

It was inevitable that a photo of Volcano would surface.

Made me laugh

[DieselDaisy]

I always like Fernando his a really cool guy if you meet him and laid back

Yeah because THAT'S what it takes to run a giant, global business (which GNR should be at this point): being cool and laid back.

That's how Apple became such a success, right? Because some illiterate child took over the company and was laid back?

Best post of the topic.

Except for the fact that the skill-set needed to manage a rock band is quite different and ridiculously small compared to what is needed in a fledgling company that will rise to become a multinational mega corporation. A company like Apple needed to not only succeed at developing best-in-class technology but also position themselves in the market to leverage their technical advantages, and this requires highly experienced people with a diverse background from research and development, business development, marketing & sales, strategic alliances, business negotiations, intellectual property rights, merger and acquisition, etc. This is helluva lot more complex than just managing a rock band. To put it in context, Apple has 72,800 permanent employees to take care of all the things that needs to be done, GN'R has a dozen or so when not on tour.

I am not sure I would be so fast in dismissing the analogy out hand. There are some close correspondence between, the attributes for being a rock manager, and the attributes for being a head of something like Apple. You yourself said, ''highly experienced people with a diverse background from research and development, business development, marketing & sales, strategic alliances, business negotiations, intellectual property rights, merger and acquisition..''. Many of those items you mention - 'experience', 'diverse background', ''marketing a sales'', ''business negotiations'', ''property rights'' - are attributes and tasks applicable to rock management also. Or to rephrase the point, does rock management require inexperienced people from similar backgrounds who do not know anything about sales, business or property rights?

Nah, but it is the sheer difference in volume. Look at the employee numbers for any "giant, global business" and compare it with the typical employee numbers of a band. These just aren't comparable

No shit Apple is different than GnR but the fact remains GNR is HUGE brand and should be run by a competent management team.

And the fact remains that your argument was that GN'R should be run like a "giant, global business" .

And the fact remains I never even said that but nice try. Once again though despite us dumbing it down for you and making the point crystal clear, you still miss it.

Oh sorry, it wasn't you who said it.

But most of the skills are still the same skills required, regardless of whether the operation you run consists of merely a few hundred people or ten thousand people. In both situations, you require people with experience (of their respective field) who are good at heading an organisation, public relations and marketing.

Let's not forget that Apple was not always the global giant it is now.

Edited October 30, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[Ali]

Wtf? Ali is a great guy, very well educated and spoken... Wish I could at the same about you.

Education without common sense isn't impressive regardless of how hard you try to be well spoken. Using dialogue in a way that makes you think "Who the hell talks like this?" isn't being well spoken.

Good thing for me then that I have common sense. More than enough to know that I can state my point without resorting to insults or name-calling.

That was point, ultimately. Being a GN'R fan, even a fan that doesn't think the current management team isn't doing a good job, and resorting to insults and name-calling out of frustration, no matter how understandable that frustration may be, are not one and the same. You can be the former without resorting to the latter.

Ali

Edited October 30, 2013 by Ali

[T.wa.T]

I'm at a loss for words at how little common sense people have. The comparison between Guns N' Roses was not literal. Holy fucking shit some people have absolute zero ability to grasp simple points. It's like you're too damn smart for your own good that you miss what's being said an over analyze shit to the point your response has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

No shit Apple is different than GnR but the fact remains GNR is HUGE brand and should be run by a competent management team. Instead they are run by people who clearly have no clue and that HUGE brand is diminishing daily. Take U2 for example. According to most they are well past their prime yet they are bigger now than ever in terms of what they generate. Anyone think that'd be possible if Bono's maid and her son were running the show?

The people defending team Brazil in regards to their management skills need to stop it.

I rip on TB at times myself but fact is they haven't been running things long enough to really determine how well theyve done.

Overall the tour they were in charge of went well, now we'll see how they handle releases etc... they are off to a rough start. No one should be demanding a new album so soon after a tour just ended, that's just not gonna happen.

And to be fair GnR should be a cake walk to run nowadays compared to when Niven and Goldstein were in charge. So time will tell.

Edited October 30, 2013 by T.wa.T

[RussTCB]

No one was comparing a user to a murderer or Axl for that matter. You guys know what he meant when he said it.

[wfuckinga]

It's no wonder Axl never comes here anymore. Most of you would do nothing but belittle him. Why should he subjugate himself to that? You complain about the band not interacting with fans, and them you insult them every chance you get.

[volcano62]

It's no wonder Axl never comes here anymore. Most of you would do nothing but belittle him. Why should he subjugate himself to that? You complain about the band not interacting with fans, and them you insult them every chance you get.

I'll never understand it.....too bad I'm out of "likes" so you get a +1 instead!