Do you think Kurt Cobain's death lead to Axl's decline?

[uzi your illusion]

I started a topic a few years back based on a quote from one of Axl's old assistants in regards to hearing about Cobain's death. It was written in a book called "The Oral History of Grunge" , it had a couple of GNR/Nirvana stories in it but the one that stuck out the most was where Axl heard what Kurt had done. Apparently he didn't let the assistant leave and wanted to have her stay with him all night. He was really really broken up about it, so whatever feud or bad blood I'm sure went away once Kurt offed himself.

[classicrawker]

one (Kurt again) showed with his few albums a lot more in the way of talent than the other.

That is some bullshit right there.

Sorry but one of em can only sing (albeit exceptionally), the other is lauded for some of the best songwriting to come out of popular music, some pretty different guitar playing of the sort that you've not really heard in the mainstream since and in his own way a strange impassioned voice that spoke to millions of millions of people. Axl doesn't really have anything but a very good voice to his credit.

Pretty sure Axl cowrote most of the Guns songs and also plays a very competent piano.............. and I may be wrong but I think AFD has actually outsold Nevermind....................and IMHO there was nothing special about Kurt's guitar playing

Edited October 31, 2013 by classicrawker

[JAxlMorrison]

one (Kurt again) showed with his few albums a lot more in the way of talent than the other.

That is some bullshit right there.

Sorry but one of em can only sing (albeit exceptionally), the other is lauded for some of the best songwriting to come out of popular music, some pretty different guitar playing of the sort that you've not really heard in the mainstream since and in his own way a strange impassioned voice that spoke to millions of millions of people. Axl doesn't really have anything but a very good voice to his credit.

Pretty sure Axl cowrote most of the Guns songs and also plays a very competent piano.............. and I may be wrong but I think AFD has actually outsold Nevermind....................and IMHO there was nothing special about Kurt's guitar playing

Both the Illusions and Lies probably outsold Nevermind as well. Hell,. CD may have, as far as worldwide sales...

[classicrawker]

one (Kurt again) showed with his few albums a lot more in the way of talent than the other.

That is some bullshit right there.

Sorry but one of em can only sing (albeit exceptionally), the other is lauded for some of the best songwriting to come out of popular music, some pretty different guitar playing of the sort that you've not really heard in the mainstream since and in his own way a strange impassioned voice that spoke to millions of millions of people. Axl doesn't really have anything but a very good voice to his credit.

Pretty sure Axl cowrote most of the Guns songs and also plays a very competent piano.............. and I may be wrong but I think AFD has actually outsold Nevermind....................and IMHO there was nothing special about Kurt's guitar playing

Both the Illusions and Lies probably outsold Nevermind as well. Hell,. CD may have, as far as worldwide sales...

If you believe WIKI it states AFD sold 28 million and Nevermind sold 26 million world wide so it is close

[Guest NGOG]

The world would sacrifice ten Axl's to have Kurt back, in my opinion.

[dalsh327]

AFD and Nevermind both had a lot of impact on people, it's silly to say it was one or the other.

[Bansidhe]

Is the Kurt/Axl thing not overblown? I'm not sure they signified that much to each other.

Handbags at dawn.

[Guest Len B'stard]

one (Kurt again) showed with his few albums a lot more in the way of talent than the other.

That is some bullshit right there.

Sorry but one of em can only sing (albeit exceptionally), the other is lauded for some of the best songwriting to come out of popular music, some pretty different guitar playing of the sort that you've not really heard in the mainstream since and in his own way a strange impassioned voice that spoke to millions of millions of people. Axl doesn't really have anything but a very good voice to his credit.

You've completely overlooked Axl's songwriting abilities. And as a musician Axl is far more gifted on the piano than Kurt is on the guitar. Any tryhard who's played guitar for six months could master Kurts fairly rudimentary guitar playing on Nevermind.

I don't think Axls songwriting abilities are particularly that good. OK, bit of an injustice there, they are good but not brilliant like Kurts. Also, talent on an instrument by a musician in a rock band context is kind of more to do with the songs they produce and not how many different chords they can play. It's about the songs he wrote with it, not whether he could play like Joe Satriani. Axl can write good songs but not great ones, thats why he never releases them and tinkers with them endlessly, cuz even he knows they don't cut it…so he ends up over-elaborating on an idea to make up for or cover up for the fact that it weren't that good in the first place.

[Sisyphus]

Where do you come up with such nonsense?

Anyway, this is what Axl had to say on the matter during his online chat in 2008.

Pestilence: what are your current thoughts about Kurt Cobain

Axl: I said I'm going on ChiDem now and he said whatever and walked away other than that I've been busy.

[JAxlMorrison]

The world would sacrifice ten Axl's to have Kurt back, in my opinion.

hence the problem with the world.

[classicrawker]

one (Kurt again) showed with his few albums a lot more in the way of talent than the other.

That is some bullshit right there.

Sorry but one of em can only sing (albeit exceptionally), the other is lauded for some of the best songwriting to come out of popular music, some pretty different guitar playing of the sort that you've not really heard in the mainstream since and in his own way a strange impassioned voice that spoke to millions of millions of people. Axl doesn't really have anything but a very good voice to his credit.

You've completely overlooked Axl's songwriting abilities. And as a musician Axl is far more gifted on the piano than Kurt is on the guitar. Any tryhard who's played guitar for six months could master Kurts fairly rudimentary guitar playing on Nevermind.

I don't think Axls songwriting abilities are particularly that good. OK, bit of an injustice there, they are good but not brilliant like Kurts. Also, talent on an instrument by a musician in a rock band context is kind of more to do with the songs they produce and not how many different chords they can play. It's about the songs he wrote with it, not whether he could play like Joe Satriani. Axl can write good songs but not great ones, thats why he never releases them and tinkers with them endlessly, cuz even he knows they don't cut it…so he ends up over-elaborating on an idea to make up for or cover up for the fact that it weren't that good in the first place.

Please stop , Kurt Cobain was no Mozart and his guitar playing was average at best.. Nirvana was one of the most overrated bands in rock IMHO.......

[Caught in a Coma]

one (Kurt again) showed with his few albums a lot more in the way of talent than the other.

That is some bullshit right there.

Sorry but one of em can only sing (albeit exceptionally), the other is lauded for some of the best songwriting to come out of popular music, some pretty different guitar playing of the sort that you've not really heard in the mainstream since and in his own way a strange impassioned voice that spoke to millions of millions of people. Axl doesn't really have anything but a very good voice to his credit.

You've completely overlooked Axl's songwriting abilities. And as a musician Axl is far more gifted on the piano than Kurt is on the guitar. Any tryhard who's played guitar for six months could master Kurts fairly rudimentary guitar playing on Nevermind.

You miss the point though, millions of people who have never even picked up a guitar in their life can learn to play the start of Come As You Are within literally 5-10 minutes but only one person ever managed to write it.

Yeah Killing joke wrote it, the song eighties

[wasted]

Ive often thought, that Catcher is actually about Kurt, who liked the book. As kurt is the holden in the verses. Maybe Axl the instutionalized mind. It was kind of aDouble Fantasy situation. Both were at that stage where you either become Lennon or not. Axl said you decide so I dont have to. One of them was going to be the martyr to rock n roll.

The death of Kurt made it so Axl couldnt listen to Nirvana anymore and made everyone come to their senses a bit, question what they are doing in music.

Im pretty sure thats no how axl meant it but if fits in so many ways.

Its spooky that kurt wore the catcher in the rye hunting hat in his final photo shoot. And wore it on his 2 week staying awake binge.

[Chainsforalice]

Exactly, CITR if you look at it in that sense is a metaphor for how fame and drugs took another life

[Bono]

The world would sacrifice ten Axl's to have Kurt back, in my opinion.

And if you can't comprehend why then you've got a problem. The world doesn't need Axl Rose anymore or again cause we all know how he turned out. Kurt killed himself at the height of his popularity. If Axl had killed himself shortly after the Illusion albums were relased I guaran-fucking-tee you the world would be more interested in having Axl Rose back than Kurt caoabin. the world as a whole is still more interested in Old Guns N' Roses music than they are Nirvana's music.

Anyone who thinks Nirvana stopped Guns dead is dellusional. GnR were still selling out arenas and stadiums all over the world in 1993 2 full years after Nevermind came out. In utero was a massive bust in terms of popularity. It definitely wasn't a UYI type follow up to their AFD(Nevermind). Pearl jam's Vs was more anticpated than In Utero. All GnR had to do was release another album of original material and the'd have topped the charts once again no problem. I've said it before and I'll say it again,. Revionist history is a a funny thing and it's hilarious to see how many have bought into the media hyperbole over Nirvana. Yes they had a big impact. NO they didn't not hurt GnR.

[Chainsforalice]

I love both bands but popularity doesn't mean quality IMO Chinese democracy is the best GNR album. Yet they didn't get the popularity it should of. All to do with marketing & promotion in the long run if you look at it that way.

[RussTCB]

The world would sacrifice ten Axl's to have Kurt back, in my opinion.

And if you can't comprehend why then you've got a problem. The world doesn't need Axl Rose anymore or again cause we all know how he turned out. Kurt killed himself at the height of his popularity. If Axl had killed himself shortly after the Illusion albums were relased I guaran-fucking-tee you the world would be more interested in having Axl Rose back than Kurt caoabin. the world as a whole is still more interested in Old Guns N' Roses music than they are Nirvana's music.

Anyone who thinks Nirvana stopped Guns dead is dellusional. GnR were still selling out arenas and stadiums all over the world in 1993 2 full years after Nevermind came out. In utero was a massive bust in terms of popularity. It definitely wasn't a UYI type follow up to their AFD(Nevermind). Pearl jam's Vs was more anticpated than In Utero. All GnR had to do was release another album of original material and the'd have topped the charts once again no problem. I've said it before and I'll say it again,. Revionist history is a a funny thing and it's hilarious to see how many have bought into the media hyperbole over Nirvana. Yes they had a big impact. NO they didn't not hurt GnR.

This.

Did Nirvana stop Warrant, Cinderella, Tesla and so on in their tracks? Possibly, but even with those acts there were other factors at play. GN'R? Absolutely not. Like you said, GN'R were still selling out stadiums all over the world up to and including 1993. The Pontiac Silverdome sat 75000+ for concerts. I saw U2, The Stones, Pink Floyd and Guns N' Roses/Metallica there. GN'R/Metallica was in late 1992, well after Nirvana/grunge had a hold on the market.

[Guest NGOG]

And if you can't comprehend why then you've got a problem.

Even if Kurt didn't die; you can't imagine him forming a new Nirvana and releasing one album.

Dave Grohl is currently more relevant than anybody in GNR - past or present.

Edited November 1, 2013 by NGOG

[dalsh327]

The world would sacrifice ten Axl's to have Kurt back, in my opinion.

And if you can't comprehend why then you've got a problem. The world doesn't need Axl Rose anymore or again cause we all know how he turned out. Kurt killed himself at the height of his popularity. If Axl had killed himself shortly after the Illusion albums were relased I guaran-fucking-tee you the world would be more interested in having Axl Rose back than Kurt caoabin. the world as a whole is still more interested in Old Guns N' Roses music than they are Nirvana's music.

Anyone who thinks Nirvana stopped Guns dead is dellusional. GnR were still selling out arenas and stadiums all over the world in 1993 2 full years after Nevermind came out. In utero was a massive bust in terms of popularity. It definitely wasn't a UYI type follow up to their AFD(Nevermind). Pearl jam's Vs was more anticpated than In Utero. All GnR had to do was release another album of original material and the'd have topped the charts once again no problem. I've said it before and I'll say it again,. Revionist history is a a funny thing and it's hilarious to see how many have bought into the media hyperbole over Nirvana. Yes they had a big impact. NO they didn't not hurt GnR.

AFD opened the doors to Nevermind, and Nevermind opened the doors to regional bands getting discovered.

[Spuffy78]

I think Shannon Hoon's death had something to do with it.

[Snowmass]

I know we've discussed this 100X's but as stated before- Cobain was a douche (good riddance)...so is that Novoselic dude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bh55xA2KSs

[wasted]

one (Kurt again) showed with his few albums a lot more in the way of talent than the other.

That is some bullshit right there.

Sorry but one of em can only sing (albeit exceptionally), the other is lauded for some of the best songwriting to come out of popular music, some pretty different guitar playing of the sort that you've not really heard in the mainstream since and in his own way a strange impassioned voice that spoke to millions of millions of people. Axl doesn't really have anything but a very good voice to his credit.

You've completely overlooked Axl's songwriting abilities. And as a musician Axl is far more gifted on the piano than Kurt is on the guitar. Any tryhard who's played guitar for six months could master Kurts fairly rudimentary guitar playing on Nevermind.

I don't think Axls songwriting abilities are particularly that good. OK, bit of an injustice there, they are good but not brilliant like Kurts. Also, talent on an instrument by a musician in a rock band context is kind of more to do with the songs they produce and not how many different chords they can play. It's about the songs he wrote with it, not whether he could play like Joe Satriani. Axl can write good songs but not great ones, thats why he never releases them and tinkers with them endlessly, cuz even he knows they don't cut itso he ends up over-elaborating on an idea to make up for or cover up for the fact that it weren't that good in the fi

rst place.

Its hard to say what Axl does. Im not sure what vocals and melodies mean.

I think on UYI he wrote Shotgun, Dead horse, Nov rain, Estranged, Breakdown, Yesterdays.

That seems to suggest he wrote the riffs to shorgun n dead on a guitar. The other stuff seems like piano based stuff.

On AFD the songs are often written by Izzy n Slash or Duff, or all 4. i know the myth is all 5. but still izzy wrote Brownstone with lyrics.

How much do vocal melodies guide the song?

So ivdont think wrote as much as Kurt or even Albarn who wrote everything.

But axl wrote more hits. Scom and Nov rain. He seemed have a hand in Dont Cry.

Seems like Axl is in a band to put out his songs. And will work with others on othwr stuff.

On CD he wrote SOD, Twat, Catcher, Madagascar, TIL, Prostitute.

Just bcos theres instrumention doesnt mean the song is bad.

[dalsh327]

Wonder what Kurt would think of this magic happening.

[Gunzen]

one (Kurt again) showed with his few albums a lot more in the way of talent than the other.

That is some bullshit right there.

Sorry but one of em can only sing (albeit exceptionally), the other is lauded for some of the best songwriting to come out of popular music, some pretty different guitar playing of the sort that you've not really heard in the mainstream since and in his own way a strange impassioned voice that spoke to millions of millions of people. Axl doesn't really have anything but a very good voice to his credit.

You've completely overlooked Axl's songwriting abilities. And as a musician Axl is far more gifted on the piano than Kurt is on the guitar. Any tryhard who's played guitar for six months could master Kurts fairly rudimentary guitar playing on Nevermind.

I don't think Axls songwriting abilities are particularly that good. OK, bit of an injustice there, they are good but not brilliant like Kurts. Also, talent on an instrument by a musician in a rock band context is kind of more to do with the songs they produce and not how many different chords they can play. It's about the songs he wrote with it, not whether he could play like Joe Satriani. Axl can write good songs but not great ones, thats why he never releases them and tinkers with them endlessly, cuz even he knows they don't cut it…so he ends up over-elaborating on an idea to make up for or cover up for the fact that it weren't that good in the first place.

Please stop , Kurt Cobain was no Mozart and his guitar playing was average at best.. Nirvana was one of the most overrated bands in rock IMHO.......

+ This. I am always amazed ar the posthumous credit given to Kobain. He was part of a new music wave (and not the best part, AIC and P-Jam were much better) and Kurt is some sort of incredible writer is just bullshit. How often do you hear Nirvana on the radio, or anywhere for that matter. they had one HUGE song, and the rest were popular but nothing like the catalog of GNR.

Kurt is to Axl as Lennon is to McCartney. If you look closer, you will see McCartney wrote much more of the better beatles songs, and also post beatles songs, Let it Be and Yesterday (The most covered song of all time), but Lennon pulled some sophomoric revolution BS just like Kobain. Axlls work is more like McCartney, melodic, epic, orchestral, and Lennons is like Kobains, sanctimonious, pretentious and insufferably depressing.

Not even close.

[magisme]

The Nirvana killed GNR thing is a good story cuz it sounds so dramatic; it sounds like revolution. Problem is, it simply isn't true. Nirvana attracted the people who already hated Guns. And those of us who were silly enough to, I don't know, enjoy good music regardless of style or genre, maintained an interest in both bands. A three year wait for a shitty covers album and then radio silence until the breakup killed GNR. In other words, GNR killed GNR.

Edited November 2, 2013 by magisme