Chinese Democracy may become the most underrated album in history.

[ARBeast]

It. Has. Been. Posted. Here. By. Many. People.

That's not heresay.

Ir's also been posted that Slash is overrated. I just did.

[Rustycage]

Your point?

[ARBeast]

Your point?

I can't make you like CD, you can't make me like Slash. I'm glad there are people like you who don't like chinese, but there are people like me who like it and don't believe it got justified for the quality of its content. But ultimately, I blame it on Axl. I'm not blaming it on a label or some psychotic conspiracy that Axl was forced into a reunion, which is something obviously the label would prefer. Then again, Axl shouldn't have taken so long with it.

[Rustycage]

I think you totally lost the grasp of what we were discussing.

[ARBeast]

I think you totally lost the grasp of what we were discussing.

I think you just want a fight and you're trying to drag me in it.

Regardless, I'm not going to admit that chinese sucks just to please you. Because as far as I'm concerned, it'd be a lie.

[EvH]

Yeah and one day Hitler might be considered a nice chap that was just misunderstood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[Rustycage]

No one asked you to admit anything. You pointed to a couple of friends liking it after not even knowing about it as some sort of proof that it is under-appreciated. "If people like that had known about it, sales would have been better....." You act as if the reason it was overlooked was because people didn't know.

The main point is some like it even though they didn't know about it and some hate it after buying it. Sales mean nothing in terms of 'appreciation' when it carries the GNR brand name and was hyped up over a 15 year period.

For every person that just now gets turned on to it, people could just as easily find those that think it sucks and should be a solo record.

The chances are if it didn't have the GNR brand name, it wouldn't receive glorious appreciation, either. It has nothing to do with Slash. (don't be scared cause I mentioned his name. He's not standing behind you. or is he?)In the eyes of many, maybe it JUST ISN'T THAT GOOD. Don't tear up at that or anything but that's an easy possibility.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Rustycage

[Facekicker]

Yeah and one day Hitler might be considered a nice chap that was just misunderstood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Of internet adages, Godwins Law is worse than Hitler.

No one asked you to admit anything. You pointed to a couple of friends liking it after not even knowing about it as some sort of proof that it is under-appreciated. "If people like that had known about it, sales would have been better....." You act as if the reason it was overlooked was because people didn't know.

The main point is some like it even though they didn't know about it and some hate it after buying it. Sales mean nothing in terms of 'appreciation' when it carries the GNR brand name and was hyped up over a 15 year period.

For every person that just now gets turned on to it, people could just as easily find those that think it sucks and should be a solo record.

The chances are if it didn't have the GNR brand name, it wouldn't receive glorious appreciation, either. It has nothing to do with Slash. (don't be scared cause I mentioned his name. He's not standing behind you. or is he?)In the eyes of many, maybe it JUST ISN'T THAT GOOD. Don't tear up at that or anything but that's an easy possibility.

NuGNR fanboys will forever search the universe for a reason as to why Chinese Democracy isn't appreciated by just about everybody else. Of course they will never entertain the notion that it is because the album is generally a weak. misguided and self-indulgent vanity project.

It is kind of like how Axl always finds someone else to blame for his own fuckups.

[Apollo]

I wrote a music blog where I listed the top 10 most underrated rock albums of the last 20 years................CD was number one.

[saber_]

NuGNR fanboys will forever search the universe for a reason as to why Chinese Democracy isn't appreciated by just about everybody else. Of course they will never entertain the notion that it is because the album is generally a weak. misguided and self-indulgent vanity project.

It is kind of like how Axl always finds someone else to blame for his own fuckups.

How would your perception change if it wasn't a Guns record? Yes yes, I know you already don't consider it a Guns record, but what i mean is if it was released as just Axl Rose, would your perception of it change? I'm just curious how much the name thing is influencing you here.

I'm not saying it's the most fantastic record evar. To me, it sounds like some other progressive rock- like Steve Vai and stuff like that.

[gunnari]

It's not GnR album for me..It's Axl's solo project..I don't care if he calls it gnr album or not..To me it goes to the same category as The Spaghetti Incident!

I was actually angry when I first listened CD and thought to myself: "I waited this bullshit for 15 years???"

Can't even remember most of the lyrics in that album..I don't know man..It's just too much happening at the same time, too many ballads..Axl tried too hard and you can hear that..The evolution from UYI was just too big a leap..I was waiting it to be more bluesy, hardrock..Maybe I just don't like this new direction GnR has taken with CD

Edited December 9, 2013 by gunnari

[Nosaj Thing]

I can barely remember the songs on CD. Mediocre at best, so nothing underrated about it.

[Chewbacca]

It's not GnR album for me..It's Axl's solo project..I don't care if he calls it gnr album or not..To me it goes to the same category as The Spaghetti Incident!

I was actually angry when I first listened CD and thought to myself: "I waited this bullshit for 15 years???"

Can't even remember most of the lyrics in that album..I don't know man..It's just too much happening at the same time, too many ballads..Axl tried too hard and you can hear that..The evolution from UYI was just too big a leap..I was waiting it to be more bluesy, hardrock..Maybe I just don't like this new direction GnR has taken with CD

Call it whatever you want, I know it's not the same band and I don't need a name to tell me that.

I respect that you don't like the new style, of course you wanted them to stick their old style, but tbh, I'm really happy that Axl told those bluesy influences to go fuck themselves. I really liked the new industrial stuff and I know I would be really sad if Gn'R came back to an AFD sound, so I think your disapointment is totally justified.

[Rustycage]

There's nothing industrial about CD. Throwing a drum machine on a song doesn't make it industrial. Leaving too much hiss on the guitars doesn't make it industrial. Hiss isn't the same as the artifacts in industrial metal tone. The only similarity is the amount of layers but in most industrial, each layer has it's own space and isn't just a total fucking mess of shit fighting for presence in the mix.

[ARBeast]

Yeah and one day Hitler might be considered a nice chap that was just misunderstood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Of internet adages, Godwins Law is worse than Hitler.

No one asked you to admit anything. You pointed to a couple of friends liking it after not even knowing about it as some sort of proof that it is under-appreciated. "If people like that had known about it, sales would have been better....." You act as if the reason it was overlooked was because people didn't know.

The main point is some like it even though they didn't know about it and some hate it after buying it. Sales mean nothing in terms of 'appreciation' when it carries the GNR brand name and was hyped up over a 15 year period.

For every person that just now gets turned on to it, people could just as easily find those that think it sucks and should be a solo record.

The chances are if it didn't have the GNR brand name, it wouldn't receive glorious appreciation, either. It has nothing to do with Slash. (don't be scared cause I mentioned his name. He's not standing behind you. or is he?)In the eyes of many, maybe it JUST ISN'T THAT GOOD. Don't tear up at that or anything but that's an easy possibility.

NuGNR fanboys will forever search the universe for a reason as to why Chinese Democracy isn't appreciated by just about everybody else. Of course they will never entertain the notion that it is because the album is generally a weak. misguided and self-indulgent vanity project.

It is kind of like how Axl always finds someone else to blame for his own fuckups.

Axl is solely to blame for his own fuckups, bro.

Get a grip. You don't like it because it's not the original lineup and you're bitter with Axl. And I know you're not calling me a fanboy so you're ok, don't worry about it.

Edited December 10, 2013 by ARBeast

[ITG]

life doesn't owe you a good album rating

[Rustycage]

TSI is more underrated than CD. And that's saying a lot.

[Nosaj Thing]

life doesn't owe you a good album rating

[IRanOutOfIdeas]

I've listened to CD a couple times all the way through but overall I don't find it an easy listen. There are a few songs on it that I absolutely love and I think are on par with their early stuff (Better, Catcher in the Rye, etc.), but overall I think it's just a thick mess of sound. Uncompromising records can either be masterpieces or flops and for the time being, I side with the later.

I honestly think it would've done better if Axl didn't release it under the GNR banner...Eliminate all of the comparisons that holds it down.

[Rauschen]

It can be said the album is underrated but not to the point the OP was getting at. My biggest issue with Chinese, and why I do not think it is the best GNR album ever made is because of the guitars.

Specifically, how the guitar parts were recorded and put together in each song. Listening, I thought "holy copy and past job, why are random guitar solos flying around on each track and into my ears"?

I am a huge fan of blues/hard rock guitar, Chinese did not meet expectations on this front. I am not saying no Slash means no GNR. I am saying, that Axl should have found two guitarist to record with that were blues influenced. Someone like Joe Perry. This is what was missing from Chinese and what made the band not sound like the GNR that was famous in the 90's IMO.

Music is all subjective after all, you like what you like or might love something a large majority of people do not.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Rauschen

[SweetRose]

I've been a GN'R fan since about late 1987.And loved everything they had recorded up to the break up,including TSI.

I absolutely loved UYI's.Loved Axl's Nov.Rain,Estranged,Don't Cry(but not the alt.). I vowed to own every album,even after the breakup,if it held up to my expectations.In which I thought it would have,being CD was going to be Axl's vision and his alone,being that I loved his creations from UYI's.

So I waited and waited and waited some more.Then FINALLY!Here his creation was born.My heart sank to my feet!I could not believe what I was hearing,and by no means do I mean that in a good way.

Here was my favorite GN'R guy,with his vision that had to be,and it was nothing that seemed to be anything remotely to his style.It left me scratching my head,going "HUH?!".

I mentioned earlier,that I had vowed to own every GN'R album that was or would be recorded.Well,to this day,I have yet to own CD. I won't even allow myself to buy it from a $.99 bin/Dollar Tree,that's how much I disliked hearing the leaks,streams,etc.

It's not because it's not the old band.There was nothing on it,that spoke to my heart/soul.It didn't take me on the mind fucked journey any of the other albums had done.Its hard to describe it for me.

I gave Axl and his NuGN'R the benefit of the doubt,and yes I listened to it online.And that was when my heart shattered.

Edited December 10, 2013 by SweetRose

[Mr. Dude]

I think Chinese Democracy a complete and utter masterpiece. Without a doubt, the greatest album of the 2000's and certainly the most underrated album of the 2000's. To me, its the last real rock n roll masterpiece. No other artist will ever have the clout or be given the leeway to even attempt an undertaking the scope of Chinese Democracy. People complain about the production, but I think that is one of its strengths- the time it took to record, the layers of sound, and plethora of musicians involved- all contributed to the epic, grandiose feel of the album. The musicianship is first rate and the lyrics are authentically autobiographical. CD is about coming to terms with pain, loss, betrayal, and finding a way to rise above, overcome, and forge ahead. It's intense, intelligent, and romantically stimulating in both a literal and figurative sense.

Yes, I'm an Axl fanatic, but its Chinese Democracy that made me that way. I grew up with GNR, but was always more into the alternative/indie scene back then- Nirvana, Pearl Jam, AiC, Sonic Youth, Neil Young, Pixies, NIN, etc. When I was younger I thought GNR was too cartoonish for my taste, but CD made me reevaluate and appreciate the entire catalog. Now I love the entire anthology, but its Chinese Democracy that really drew me in enough to get past the misconstrued images of Axl/GNR and appreciate the music for what it is. I think most people's misperceptions are already too constructed to let them make an objective, unbiased evaluation of the album. As someone else said, the songs are pretty bulletproof. You can tell someone really cared for and pored over the material and took the time to perfect all the elements of each song down to the finest details. As I mentioned previously, I feel like that is CD's strength, not its weakness.

[DR DOOM]

I just don't see the amazing "scope" of Chinese Democracy-it wasn't groundbreaking and it didn't re-invent the wheel...if it came out in the first half of the 00's it might have been a bit more relevant.

[wasted]

I find the retro 90s angle to be novel. Other than it's GNR and classic rock dynamics. It was an interesting enough twist for a rock band.

Stuff like Better, SOD, TWAT, Catcher, TIL really fit in with the bulk of classic GNR easily. And that's all you need per record.

AFD - Jungle, SCOM, PC

UYI I - Live n Let Die, Don't Cry, Nov Rain

UYI II - You Could Be Mine, Yesterdays, Estranged

CD - Better, SOD, This I Love

[Intercourse]

Every stylistic crutch Axl used in CD has been developed, used and executed better by other bands.

I'm thinking of Muse particularly.

Axl's vocal lines and sense of melody are still stellar but he CD songs themselves sound like old UYI tunes that someone from Radiohead tried to glue modern effects onto after a shit load of beer.