Joe Perry: "I had great hopes of GNR carrying the torch"

[wasted]

Does Duff say that Slash said to do the Snakepit songs as is or nothing? I've only hear Axl say that, and I don't believe him for a second.

So you're backing off the Izzy comment?

Yes, Duff actually highlights that part in the book. Don't make me go back page by page on my kindle. Duff was more open to Axl's new influences, grunge industrial, Duff is from Seattle, I can see how he wouldn't be closed to it. Slash got Jack Douglas to produce one of Snakepit albums, thats Areosmith all the way.

Not sure about the Izzy one. Did Izzy go to one of those Eddie Trunk interviews around the IRS leak? I'm sure Axl said something like that.

The reality is that it didn't just come down to that one night in the studio bust up. Axl and Slash talked a lot for weeks about it.

[classicrawker]

Does Duff say that Slash said to do the Snakepit songs as is or nothing? I've only hear Axl say that, and I don't believe him for a second.

So you're backing off the Izzy comment?

He never provides citation for his quotes mate he just ignores what you post and keeps making claims he can't prove.....like Slash did not want to work with Axl in the studio when in fact Axl was the one who never showed up to work with the rest of the band.........

[Free Bird]

I can imagine Slash wanted Axls input but didn't want him to fuck around with the songs like he did on the UYIs. Just to keep them straight rnr

Edited July 10, 2014 by Free Bird

[classicrawker]

Does Duff say that Slash said to do the Snakepit songs as is or nothing? I've only hear Axl say that, and I don't believe him for a second.

So you're backing off the Izzy comment?

Yes, Duff actually highlights that part in the book. Don't make me go back page by page on my kindle. Duff was more open to Axl's new influences, grunge industrial, Duff is from Seattle, I can see how he wouldn't be closed to it. Slash got Jack Douglas to produce one of Snakepit albums, thats Areosmith all the way.

Not sure about the Izzy one. Did Izzy go to one of those Eddie Trunk interviews around the IRS leak? I'm sure Axl said something like that.

The reality is that it didn't just come down to that one night in the studio bust up. Axl and Slash talked a lot for weeks about it.

I actually took a look in Duff's book and on page 242 all Duff says is he backed Axl on not liking the Snakepit material thinking it was too Southern Rock........Duff never said Slash refused to let Axl work on the songs.

Also on the same page Duff says he backed Slash about not wanting Paul Huge to join the band as the other guitarist so your claim that Duff was aligned with Axl is not true. he says they tried to play with Huge but it was hopeless and they told Axl and he got pissed and told them "fuck you". ...........on the next page he says this was the last straw for Slash who then released the Snakepit material...not one word about Slash refusing to allow Axl to work on the material.........

And Izzy gave an interview in Rolling Stone when he left and again in 2001 in Classic Rock where he sited Axl trying to cut down his percentage, Axl's meglomania, and Axl's going on late and walking off stage mid show as some of the reasons he quite the band. And yes Slash's and Duff's sobriety also played a role but it was not the main reason.............

If your going to try to rewrite history at least be able to back up what you claim mate..............

Edited July 10, 2014 by classicrawker

[wasted]

Does Duff say that Slash said to do the Snakepit songs as is or nothing? I've only hear Axl say that, and I don't believe him for a second.

So you're backing off the Izzy comment?

He never provides citation for his quotes mate he just ignores what you post and keeps making claims he can't prove.....like Slash did not want to work with Axl in the studio when in fact Axl was the one who never showed up to work with the rest of the band.........

source?

I think it's common knowledge about Slash not wanting to do Seymour ballads and Duff agreeing with Axl about Snakepit.

It's just not as black and white as you want it to be. It's not all Axl or all Slash. They just couldn't work together anymore.

[magisme]

Thing is, CR isn't saying it was all Axl. He's saying it was primarily Axl, which it was.

[SoulMonster]

Duff:Being asked about the downfall of Guns N' Roses: Everything started when Slash turned his back and said: « This is shit. » [referring to their musical differences.] He and Axl didn’t talk to each other anymore. It had become quite irrational. (...) I was always in the middle, the one both came to see, and I got the impression I arbitrated little kids’ quarrels [Duff McKagan Interview, Hard Force Magazine June 1999]

[classicrawker]

Does Duff say that Slash said to do the Snakepit songs as is or nothing? I've only hear Axl say that, and I don't believe him for a second.

So you're backing off the Izzy comment?

He never provides citation for his quotes mate he just ignores what you post and keeps making claims he can't prove.....like Slash did not want to work with Axl in the studio when in fact Axl was the one who never showed up to work with the rest of the band.........

source?

I think it's common knowledge about Slash not wanting to do Seymour ballads and Duff agreeing with Axl about Snakepit.

It's just not as black and white as you want it to be. It's not all Axl or all Slash. They just couldn't work together anymore.

I never said Slash did not want to do Axl's ballads mate but how about providing proof for all the other claims you have made which are just not true? You throw shit against the wall and when proven wrong you ignore this and throw some more shit to see if it sticks...

Like I said if you want to try to rewrite history at least be somewhat accurate about what you claim as there are other posters here reading your misinformation thinking it is truth.............

[wasted]

Does Duff say that Slash said to do the Snakepit songs as is or nothing? I've only hear Axl say that, and I don't believe him for a second.

So you're backing off the Izzy comment?

Yes, Duff actually highlights that part in the book. Don't make me go back page by page on my kindle. Duff was more open to Axl's new influences, grunge industrial, Duff is from Seattle, I can see how he wouldn't be closed to it. Slash got Jack Douglas to produce one of Snakepit albums, thats Areosmith all the way.

Not sure about the Izzy one. Did Izzy go to one of those Eddie Trunk interviews around the IRS leak? I'm sure Axl said something like that.

The reality is that it didn't just come down to that one night in the studio bust up. Axl and Slash talked a lot for weeks about it.

I actually took a look in Duff's book and on page 242 all Duff says is he backed Axl on not liking the Snakepit material thinking it was too Southern Rock........Duff never said Slash refused to let Axl work on the songs.

Also on the same page Duff says he backed Slash about not wanting Paul Huge to join the band as the other guitarist so your claim that Duff was aligned with Axl is not true. he says they tried to play with Huge but it was hopeless and they told Axl and he got pissed and told them "fuck you". ...........on the next page he says this was the last straw for Slash who then released the Snakepit material...not one word about Slash refusing to allow Axl to work on the material.........

And Izzy gave an interview in Rolling Stone when he left and again in 2001 in Classic Rock where he sited Axl trying to cut down his percentage, Axl's meglomania, and Axl's going on late and walking off stage mid show as some of the reasons he quite the band. And yes Slash's and Duff's sobriety also played a role but it was not the main reason.............

If your going to try to rewrite history at least be able to back up what you claim mate..............

What I said was true though, Duff didn't agree with doing the Snakepit stuff as it was. That is what Slash wanted to do. You're just being obtuse because you want to blame only Axl. I just think they stopped being able to work together, going in different directions.

When Duff got sober he was aligned with Axl more.

It is kind of weird though, Axl is a dictator but he wasn't really there in the studio much. I feel like Slash and Duff must have had studio time to work on material just like the UYI era.

I think Izzy leaving was more to do with Axl than Slash but he didn't seem that interested in the direction of UYI.

[magisme]

wasted's style has grown on me. It used to annoy me to no end, but then I realized you just have to accept that you're gonna have a different kind of conversation when you're talking to him. If you just go with it you can end up some cool places.

[SoulMonster]

wasted is great.

[Lio]

I think wasted makes a lot of sense in this thread.

[magisme]

I think wasted makes a lot of sense in this thread.

But CR is right, no? wasted is making claims without evidence, CR refutes those claims with evidence, wasted twists what CR is saying and repeats his now refuted claims or makes other claims with no evidence. Am I wrong?

[SoulMonster]

Axl was (and probably still is) a difficult person to be around and even more to have a functional working relationship with. Slash had enough of the bullshit, the feeling of being marginalized, Axl's grand visions, and the personal differences and decided to split (after having left the band for some time to play with Snakepit).

It's like so many other relationships, it's much easier to leave when you have something else to go to (and Slash had his solo project, which he would later return to again when he thought VR became too much of a drag).

When you mix a strong, visionary and uncompromising person together with a more down-to-earth and simple quitter, it rarely lasts long. Who's at fault? Both. Equally? Nah, it rarely is. Could something have been done with it? Nah, it was bound to happen, I am just glad thy managed to release some killer music while it lasted and that they are all alive.

[wasted]

Thing is, CR isn't saying it was all Axl. He's saying it was primarily Axl, which it was.

What was?

Slash leaving?

I think it was yes, because Axl wouldn't go in Slash's direction, the Snakepit material. He didn't want to do Axl's ballads, he wanted to go back to a more AFD thing. Nice idea, but without Izzy you don't have the songs. AFD is wildly creative, Snakepit isn't.

And then you don't do Axl's songs either. Snakepit is a bit one dimensional for a GNR album. Even on UYI Slash did more varied stuff. Can't remember what he did, but Izzy wrote a lot.

[SoulMonster]

I think wasted makes a lot of sense in this thread.

But CR is right, no? wasted is making claims without evidence, CR refutes those claims with evidence, wasted twists what CR is saying and repeats his now refuted claims or makes other claims with no evidence. Am I wrong?

What exactly has wasted said that is wrong? (I haven't been paying attention).

[wasted]

wasted's style has grown on me. It used to annoy me to no end, but then I realized you just have to accept that you're gonna have a different kind of conversation when you're talking to him. If you just go with it you can end up some cool places.

there's normally a sign hanging in that place that says "wasted is right" and it's written in your blood.

[magisme]

a strong, visionary and uncompromising person together with a more down-to-earth and simple quitter

I like pretty much everything else about your post.

[wasted]

I think wasted makes a lot of sense in this thread.

But CR is right, no? wasted is making claims without evidence, CR refutes those claims with evidence, wasted twists what CR is saying and repeats his now refuted claims or makes other claims with no evidence. Am I wrong?

What exactly has wasted said that is wrong? (I haven't been paying attention).

I said Slash said he didn't want to do Seymour ballads and Duff didn't think Snakepit was a GNR record as it was, he was open to work on it with Axl. Slash didn't want that to happen. Axl says he was told it had to be as it was and to sing what he was told.

I'm sourceless in a sea of literals who what certainty in a chaotic and evil world.

[magisme]

I think wasted makes a lot of sense in this thread.

But CR is right, no? wasted is making claims without evidence, CR refutes those claims with evidence, wasted twists what CR is saying and repeats his now refuted claims or makes other claims with no evidence. Am I wrong?

What exactly has wasted said that is wrong? (I haven't been paying attention).

That Duff said Slash said the Snakepit songs had to be taken as is or nothing and that Izzy said Slash was trying to take over control of the band.

[SoulMonster]

I think wasted makes a lot of sense in this thread.

But CR is right, no? wasted is making claims without evidence, CR refutes those claims with evidence, wasted twists what CR is saying and repeats his now refuted claims or makes other claims with no evidence. Am I wrong?

What exactly has wasted said that is wrong? (I haven't been paying attention).

I said Slash said he didn't want to do Seymour ballads and Duff didn't think Snakepit was a GNR record as it was, he was open to work on it with Axl. Slash didn't want that to happen. Axl says he was told it had to be as it was and to sing what he was told.

The thing about Seymour ballads is a direct quote from Slash. He had derogatory remarks for Axl's music on a few occasions. Duff and Axl agreed that the songs Slash, Matt and Gilby brought in (what became the Snakepit material) wasn't good enough for a new GN'R record, but yeah, I believe they were open to work with it although Slash has said that Axl dismissed it more or less entirely but wanted it after Slash had put it on record. And yeah, Axl has said that Slash wanted it as it was and wanted him just to shut up and sing.

So, I think we can find quotes for all of this, but whether we should believe it all is something else.

[wasted]

Does Duff say that Slash said to do the Snakepit songs as is or nothing? I've only hear Axl say that, and I don't believe him for a second.

So you're backing off the Izzy comment?

He never provides citation for his quotes mate he just ignores what you post and keeps making claims he can't prove.....like Slash did not want to work with Axl in the studio when in fact Axl was the one who never showed up to work with the rest of the band.........

source?

I think it's common knowledge about Slash not wanting to do Seymour ballads and Duff agreeing with Axl about Snakepit.

It's just not as black and white as you want it to be. It's not all Axl or all Slash. They just couldn't work together anymore.

I never said Slash did not want to do Axl's ballads mate but how about providing proof for all the other claims you have made which are just not true? You throw shit against the wall and when proven wrong you ignore this and throw some more shit to see if it sticks...

Like I said if you want to try to rewrite history at least be somewhat accurate about what you claim as there are other posters here reading your misinformation thinking it is truth.............

I think if there's one thing that we have established is that there is no truth. maybe you should provide sources too?

Slash saying he's doesn't want to do Axl's material is a big one I would say. You just ignore anything that doesn't support Slash. I'm guessing not doing Axl's material is kind of a problem if you want to be in GNR.

I just see both sides. Even if we provide sources who knows if they are accurate. Duff says this or that, doesn't mean it's true or he remembered properly. But it does shed some doubt on it just being Axl who wasn't that excited about Snakepit. Which to me is of interest. to me anyway.

[SoulMonster]

I think wasted makes a lot of sense in this thread.

But CR is right, no? wasted is making claims without evidence, CR refutes those claims with evidence, wasted twists what CR is saying and repeats his now refuted claims or makes other claims with no evidence. Am I wrong?

What exactly has wasted said that is wrong? (I haven't been paying attention).

That Duff said Slash said the Snakepit songs had to be taken as is or nothing and that Izzy said Slash was trying to take over control of the band.

Axl has claimed Slash demanded he [Axl] would just sing on the music without changing anything. As for Izzy having said Slash wanted "control of the band", I can't remember having read it.

[magisme]

I think wasted makes a lot of sense in this thread.

But CR is right, no? wasted is making claims without evidence, CR refutes those claims with evidence, wasted twists what CR is saying and repeats his now refuted claims or makes other claims with no evidence. Am I wrong?

What exactly has wasted said that is wrong? (I haven't been paying attention).

I said Slash said he didn't want to do Seymour ballads and Duff didn't think Snakepit was a GNR record as it was, he was open to work on it with Axl. Slash didn't want that to happen. Axl says he was told it had to be as it was and to sing what he was told.

The thing about Seymour ballads is a direct quote from Slash. He had derogatory remarks for Axl's music on a few occasions. Duff and Axl agreed that the songs Slash, Matt and Gilby brought in (what became the Snakepit material) wasn't good enough for a new GN'R record, but yeah, I believe they were open to work with it although Slash has said that Axl dismissed it more or less entirely but wanted it after Slash had put it on record. And yeah, Axl has said that Slash wanted it as it was and wanted him just to shut up and sing.

So, I think we can find quotes for all of this, but whether we should believe it all is something else.

Don't listen to him. That's not what we're disagreeing about.

I think wasted makes a lot of sense in this thread.

But CR is right, no? wasted is making claims without evidence, CR refutes those claims with evidence, wasted twists what CR is saying and repeats his now refuted claims or makes other claims with no evidence. Am I wrong?

What exactly has wasted said that is wrong? (I haven't been paying attention).

That Duff said Slash said the Snakepit songs had to be taken as is or nothing and that Izzy said Slash was trying to take over control of the band.

Axl has claimed Slash demanded he [Axl] would just sing on the music without changing anything. As for Izzy having said Slash wanted "control of the band", I can't remember having read it.

Yes, Axl said that. No one denies that. wasted tried to say Duff said it as well.

[wasted]

I think wasted makes a lot of sense in this thread.

But CR is right, no? wasted is making claims without evidence, CR refutes those claims with evidence, wasted twists what CR is saying and repeats his now refuted claims or makes other claims with no evidence. Am I wrong?

What exactly has wasted said that is wrong? (I haven't been paying attention).

I said Slash said he didn't want to do Seymour ballads and Duff didn't think Snakepit was a GNR record as it was, he was open to work on it with Axl. Slash didn't want that to happen. Axl says he was told it had to be as it was and to sing what he was told.

The thing about Seymour ballads is a direct quote from Slash. He had derogatory remarks for Axl's music on a few occasions. Duff and Axl agreed that the songs Slash, Matt and Gilby brought in (what became the Snakepit material) wasn't good enough for a new GN'R record, but yeah, I believe they were open to work with it although Slash has said that Axl dismissed it more or less entirely but wanted it after Slash had put it on record. And yeah, Axl has said that Slash wanted it as it was and wanted him just to shut up and sing.

So, I think we can find quotes for all of this, but whether we should believe it all is something else.

Slash didn't want to do Axl's ballads flat out. Axl kind of rejected but offered to work on Snakepit. I just think Slash could see he wasn't going to get to do what he wanted.

Do you know if Axl and Izzy ever went on Trunk, maybe Axl told a story about Elton John. And Axl made a side comment to Izzy how Slash "tried to take over the band" and Izzy agree. I'm not sure if I'm remembering that right. maybe Izzy wasn't there.

Not sure why people are so defensive.