Policing Thread

[magisme]

We deserve everything that's coming our way if we decide as a society that this shit is acceptable.

We could move to a society that cuts heads off with a dagger.

But yes, I agree with you.

That's should be our slogan.

USA: At least we don't cut heads off with daggers

[Jakey Styley]

I saw a comment from some old white bitch on Facebook with 5000 likes that went "If the officer is prosecuted, we should riot! Oh wait, we can't because we actually have JOBS!"

I've seen more comments like that from some white people, remarks with racist undertones regarding the Ferguson blacks rioting. It frustrates me, because like, when was the last time that white Americans were ever oppressed enough that they had to riot or protest for anything?

I just think it's ignorant when white people try and act like they know what it's like or how they would behave if they were part of an oppressed minority group. And yeah, I know, there's not all that much oppression going on these days and loads of progress has been made, but the truth is that the experience of a black American is still different from that of a white American.

[Not An FSB Agent]

It frustrates me, because like, when was the last time that white Americans were ever oppressed enough that they had to riot or protest for anything?

Well, there was Vietnam, the Pro-Choice movement, the Anti-Nuclear movement, and most recently the Occupy movement.

[Jakey Styley]

It frustrates me, because like, when was the last time that white Americans were ever oppressed enough that they had to riot or protest for anything?

Well, there was Vietnam, the Pro-Choice movement, the Anti-Nuclear movement, and most recently the Occupy movement.

Those issues aren't targeting or regarding white people, they're regarding anyone who happens to be interested in that movement.

[Not An FSB Agent]

It frustrates me, because like, when was the last time that white Americans were ever oppressed enough that they had to riot or protest for anything?

Well, there was Vietnam, the Pro-Choice movement, the Anti-Nuclear movement, and most recently the Occupy movement.

Those issues aren't targeting or regarding white people, they're regarding anyone who happens to be interested in that movement.

The point was that white Americans have protested to end injustice. You seem to imply in your OP that whites don't care about society's ills.

[Jakey Styley]

It frustrates me, because like, when was the last time that white Americans were ever oppressed enough that they had to riot or protest for anything?

Well, there was Vietnam, the Pro-Choice movement, the Anti-Nuclear movement, and most recently the Occupy movement.

Those issues aren't targeting or regarding white people, they're regarding anyone who happens to be interested in that movement.

The point was that white Americans have protested to end injustice. You seem to imply in your OP that whites don't care about society's ills.

I never meant to imply that. Note that I said "were ever oppressed enough" - my point was that white Americans have never been oppressed and never have had to protest or riot for an issue that was directly targeting white people, as a whole. They can't criticize how black people protest an issue that white Americans have never and will never experience.

[Not An FSB Agent]

It frustrates me, because like, when was the last time that white Americans were ever oppressed enough that they had to riot or protest for anything?

Well, there was Vietnam, the Pro-Choice movement, the Anti-Nuclear movement, and most recently the Occupy movement.

Those issues aren't targeting or regarding white people, they're regarding anyone who happens to be interested in that movement.

The point was that white Americans have protested to end injustice. You seem to imply in your OP that whites don't care about society's ills.

I never meant to imply that. Note that I said "were ever oppressed enough" - my point was that white Americans have never been oppressed and never have had to protest or riot for an issue that was directly targeting white people, as a whole. They can't criticize how black people protest an issue that white Americans have never and will never experience.

Actually, in the 19th and early 20th Centuries, many European emigrants suffered from extreme prejudice in the US-- google "know nothing"

EDIT: Fearful that Catholics were flooding the polls with non-citizens, local activists threatened to stop them. Tensions came to a head on 6 August 1855, in Louisville, Kentucky, where in a hotly contested race for the office of governor, 22 were killed and many injured. The Louisville riot was only the most spectacular of violent riots between Know Nothing activists and Catholics in 1855.^[19] In Baltimore the mayoral elections of 1856, 1857 and 1858 were all marred by violence and well-founded accusations of ballot-rigging. In Maine, Know-Nothings were associated with the tarring and feathering of a Catholic priest, Father John Bapst, in the coastal town of Ellsworth in 1851 and the burning of a Catholic church in Bath in 1854.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing#Violence

Edited August 21, 2014 by Not An FSB Agent

[bran]

the guy seemed to want to die. when cops approach and your first response is "shoot me" over and over, all the while the cops are telling him to put down his weapon,repeatedly. cops are trained to shoot to kill to eliminate a threat, if they feel their lives are at stake. this goes to civilians as well. in the states if you feel threatened and you shoot a robber or whatever in the leg or arm you could go to prison.

me personally i would like to see the taser used and the gun as a last resort. at the same time im not going to fault the officers here for shooting the guy.

[Jakey Styley]

It frustrates me, because like, when was the last time that white Americans were ever oppressed enough that they had to riot or protest for anything?

Well, there was Vietnam, the Pro-Choice movement, the Anti-Nuclear movement, and most recently the Occupy movement.

Those issues aren't targeting or regarding white people, they're regarding anyone who happens to be interested in that movement.

The point was that white Americans have protested to end injustice. You seem to imply in your OP that whites don't care about society's ills.

I never meant to imply that. Note that I said "were ever oppressed enough" - my point was that white Americans have never been oppressed and never have had to protest or riot for an issue that was directly targeting white people, as a whole. They can't criticize how black people protest an issue that white Americans have never and will never experience.

Actually, in the 19th and early 20th Centuries, many European emigrants suffered from extreme prejudice in the US-- google "know nothing"

EDIT: Fearful that Catholics were flooding the polls with non-citizens, local activists threatened to stop them. Tensions came to a head on 6 August 1855, in Louisville, Kentucky, where in a hotly contested race for the office of governor, 22 were killed and many injured. The Louisville riot was only the most spectacular of violent riots between Know Nothing activists and Catholics in 1855.^[19] In Baltimore the mayoral elections of 1856, 1857 and 1858 were all marred by violence and well-founded accusations of ballot-rigging. In Maine, Know-Nothings were associated with the tarring and feathering of a Catholic priest, Father John Bapst, in the coastal town of Ellsworth in 1851 and the burning of a Catholic church in Bath in 1854.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing#Violence

I mean, that's interesting and I thank you for showing me this, but it's totally irrelevant if your goal was to invalidate my original point. One small political group, driven by mostly religion, bagging on immigrants for following another religion.

But yeah, you could certainly call white immigrants a minority that has been oppressed in the past, for sure. The white Americans I spoke of, I guess I didn't think of immigrants as being a part of that group. I'm not sure I needed to clarify either.

[Not An FSB Agent]

It frustrates me, because like, when was the last time that white Americans were ever oppressed enough that they had to riot or protest for anything?

Well, there was Vietnam, the Pro-Choice movement, the Anti-Nuclear movement, and most recently the Occupy movement.

Those issues aren't targeting or regarding white people, they're regarding anyone who happens to be interested in that movement.

The point was that white Americans have protested to end injustice. You seem to imply in your OP that whites don't care about society's ills.

I never meant to imply that. Note that I said "were ever oppressed enough" - my point was that white Americans have never been oppressed and never have had to protest or riot for an issue that was directly targeting white people, as a whole. They can't criticize how black people protest an issue that white Americans have never and will never experience.

Actually, in the 19th and early 20th Centuries, many European emigrants suffered from extreme prejudice in the US-- google "know nothing"

EDIT: Fearful that Catholics were flooding the polls with non-citizens, local activists threatened to stop them. Tensions came to a head on 6 August 1855, in Louisville, Kentucky, where in a hotly contested race for the office of governor, 22 were killed and many injured. The Louisville riot was only the most spectacular of violent riots between Know Nothing activists and Catholics in 1855.^[19] In Baltimore the mayoral elections of 1856, 1857 and 1858 were all marred by violence and well-founded accusations of ballot-rigging. In Maine, Know-Nothings were associated with the tarring and feathering of a Catholic priest, Father John Bapst, in the coastal town of Ellsworth in 1851 and the burning of a Catholic church in Bath in 1854.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing#Violence

I mean, that's interesting and I thank you for showing me this, but it's totally irrelevant if your goal was to invalidate my original point. One small political group, driven by mostly religion, bagging on immigrants for following another religion.

Go read the link I provided. It was a sustained attack on Irish and German emigrants that were Catholic. It was ethnic inspired violence flavored by religion. Then there were the anti-wop crusades, ... ect, ect,... ect.

I didn't attempt to "invalidate" your "original post", but to merely point out that when you wrote my point was that white Americans have never been oppressed and never have had to protest, it was in error; that in fact, whites too, have been targets, albeit, by other "more pure" whites.

EDITED for clarification

Edited August 21, 2014 by Not An FSB Agent

[Bumblefeet]

Respect to this 90-year old Holocaust survivor arrested in Ferguson.

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/20/stop_the_violence_from_ferguson_to

Edited August 24, 2014 by Bumblefeet

[MB.]

Why on earth did they handcuff her? Don't think she would make a run for it or was even able to hurt them? That's just insane!

[Val22]

Today someone wrote an article about all the anger when a white person kills a black person.

The writer wanted to know why black people don't get angry when a black person kills another black person, which happens more often?

Also why isn't it racial when a black person robs or kills a white person?

My mother was robbed twice by a black person and the police didn't do anything. My brother was beat up pretty badly while riding a train in the 70's in NYC. Nothing was done either. My mother called over NY trying to get someone to do something, but nothing was done.

My 4 years of high school was 4 years of blacks attacking white students in the lunch room or in the stair cases, yet after 4 years and a new principal, the city did something about the truants who never came to class caused trouble.

It seems to me blacks are always quick to figure it's a racial crime when a white cop or person attacks a black person, but not the other way around or when a black kills another black.

I just think it's simple minds just looking for an excuse to cause trouble. All those people looting and causing trouble doesn't help your cause at all. it just shows how some are just trouble makers who use any excuse to cause harm. I guess no one had a job to go to or kids to take care of all those days they were protesting in the streets?

I think everyone should take care of their own families and try to be a better person and maybe people will see you as a productive member of society instead of trouble makers.

[Dazey]

"Blacks"

Edited August 24, 2014 by Dazey

[Dan H.]

Where's SunnyDRE when you need him

[downzy]

Today someone wrote an article about all the anger when a white person kills a black person.

The writer wanted to know why black people don't get angry when a black person kills another black person, which happens more often?

Also why isn't it racial when a black person robs or kills a white person?

My mother was robbed twice by a black person and the police didn't do anything. My brother was beat up pretty badly while riding a train in the 70's in NYC. Nothing was done either. My mother called over NY trying to get someone to do something, but nothing was done.

My 4 years of high school was 4 years of blacks attacking white students in the lunch room or in the stair cases, yet after 4 years and a new principal, the city did something about the truants who never came to class caused trouble.

It seems to me blacks are always quick to figure it's a racial crime when a white cop or person attacks a black person, but not the other way around or when a black kills another black.

I just think it's simple minds just looking for an excuse to cause trouble. All those people looting and causing trouble doesn't help your cause at all. it just shows how some are just trouble makers who use any excuse to cause harm. I guess no one had a job to go to or kids to take care of all those days they were protesting in the streets?

I think everyone should take care of their own families and try to be a better person and maybe people will see you as a productive member of society instead of trouble makers.

No offense, but these "why isn't the opposite racist" posts are a little naive.

The difference is that the number of black people injured/killed by the police isn't in any way proportional to the demographics. I'm sure black people get just as upset when a private black citizen kills another private black citizen as they do when a private white citizen kills a private black citizen.

But that's NOT what the uproar in Ferguson is about.

The issue at hand is when white police officers kill black people at a disproportionate rate to the demographic makeup of the country. Those carrying the badge who take up the charge of enforcing laws are held to a higher responsibility than private citizens. It is when these individuals, who either as a result of their own racial biases or institutional policies, arbitrarily act in a manner towards black citizens that they would not towards white citizens should attention be paid. The simple fact is that the law currently treats black people and white people differently. And for the most part there isn't a lot of noise made about it unless it involves the death of a black person.

Racism comes in many different forms. While most of the highly noticeable forms of racism have thankfully regressed in the last thirty to forty years, that doesn't mean that other forms still aren't prevalent. Structural racism, while more subtle and less tangible, still dominates American social relations. Like I said, normally it's so subtle that few notice it, but there are times when it's deviance does manifest itself in the death of a black citizen. This is one of those times.

[Apollo]

Today someone wrote an article about all the anger when a white person kills a black person.

The writer wanted to know why black people don't get angry when a black person kills another black person, which happens more often?

Also why isn't it racial when a black person robs or kills a white person?

My mother was robbed twice by a black person and the police didn't do anything. My brother was beat up pretty badly while riding a train in the 70's in NYC. Nothing was done either. My mother called over NY trying to get someone to do something, but nothing was done.

My 4 years of high school was 4 years of blacks attacking white students in the lunch room or in the stair cases, yet after 4 years and a new principal, the city did something about the truants who never came to class caused trouble.

It seems to me blacks are always quick to figure it's a racial crime when a white cop or person attacks a black person, but not the other way around or when a black kills another black.

I just think it's simple minds just looking for an excuse to cause trouble. All those people looting and causing trouble doesn't help your cause at all. it just shows how some are just trouble makers who use any excuse to cause harm. I guess no one had a job to go to or kids to take care of all those days they were protesting in the streets?

I think everyone should take care of their own families and try to be a better person and maybe people will see you as a productive member of society instead of trouble makers.

And the most racist post in the history of the forum is won by Val.

[downzy]

[Apollo]

http://www.inquisitr.com/1430653/dillon-taylor-shooting-proof-ferguson-protesters-are-having-the-wrong-conversation/

Odd that nobody is talking about this, no protests are going on, president Obama isn't involved.

[Mastodonny]

Where is the Tea Party nut ball outcry over the police becoming paramilitary units and the loss of our every day rights as a result of this.

[bran]

http://www.inquisitr.com/1430653/dillon-taylor-shooting-proof-ferguson-protesters-are-having-the-wrong-conversation/

Odd that nobody is talking about this, no protests are going on, president Obama isn't involved.

just like anything else, people will only report things that fit their viewpoint and their own agenda. people like jesse jackson and al sharpton see racism in everything because they have an agenda, they make huge amounts of money and notoriety working people up in a frenzy and get them to see racism in every single thing that happens. you see it all the time, cop kills a black kid it is racism, you criticize president obama, your a racist. the media does it for ratings, they dramatize everything and paint everything as fact even though it is nothing but conjecture. to them the cop that killed michael brown had a kkk outfit in the trunk of the car, came flying in trying to run down brown, flicked his cigarette into the street said the N word to brown and shot him with an ak47.

the reason this story isnt getting reported is the fact it doesnt fit the narrative, the news media and people like jackson and sharpton would have to acknowledge that *gasp* people of every race kill all the other races every single day. anybody really think the media will now paint this black cop as a hardcore black panther that just wanted to kill a white boy, like they painted george zimmerman and officer wilson to be neo nazi's wanting to kill a black man?

[Ace Nova]

I previously stated that I wouldn't comment on this story until more facts were out.

Now that more facts are out....I still feel that the police have no right to kill anyone that is unarmed.

That being said.....this story (unfortunately) has more to do with TRAINING of officers, than anything. If that officer was trained to use non-lethal methods to defend himself (or the public), Mr. Brown would still be alive.

[Jakey Styley]

http://www.inquisitr.com/1430653/dillon-taylor-shooting-proof-ferguson-protesters-are-having-the-wrong-conversation/

Odd that nobody is talking about this, no protests are going on, president Obama isn't involved.

It's not odd.

I don't know how to say this, and it's not an opinion that I feel particularly strong about, but I think it's kinda...immature and unrealistic thinking to complain about double standards like this one. Double standards suck, they're frustrating, but most of them exist for a reason, even if the reason is outdated at this point. The racial double standards have historical roots and really it doesn't have a place anymore, but unfortunately it does, and complaining about it doesn't do anything.

[downzy]

http://www.inquisitr.com/1430653/dillon-taylor-shooting-proof-ferguson-protesters-are-having-the-wrong-conversation/

Odd that nobody is talking about this, no protests are going on, president Obama isn't involved.

It's not odd.

I don't know how to say this, and it's not an opinion that I feel particularly strong about, but I think it's kinda...immature and unrealistic thinking to complain about double standards like this one. Double standards suck, they're frustrating, but most of them exist for a reason, even if the reason is outdated at this point. The racial double standards have historical roots and really it doesn't have a place anymore, but unfortunately it does, and complaining about it doesn't do anything.

Absolutely not true. To suggest that "racial double standards" are outdated, that America is no longer a racialized and segregated place is utter fucking nonsense.

Make no mistake, there are still two different Americas operating within the nation's borders: white American and the rest. By almost every statistical variable, black and brown American citizens do worse than white Americans. Whether it be wealth, education, employment or the treatment received by the law (police, courts, punishment), black America is doing a whole lot worse than white America.

Black Americans are still very much second-class citizens within their own country. It's why "African-Americans were overrepresented among police shooting victims in every city the publications investigated. The contrast was particularly noticeable in New York, San Diego and Las Vegas. In each of these cities, the percentage of black people killed by police was at least double that of their share of the city's total population." It's also why the DOJ found in 2008 that "black people were almost three times more likely than white people to be subjected to force or threatened with it by police."

The USA Today examined justifiable homicide reports sent in to the FBI. It found that over the seven years ending in 2012, a white police officer killed a black person on average twice a week. Granted, the FBI database is incomplete as reports are only voluntary, but many believe the problem is under-reported as a result.

Look, what happened to Dillon Taylor is a travesty, one that deserves more attention than it received. But should we then minimize and turn away from what went down in Michael Brown in Ferguson? And are we so quick to reject and ignore America's history of racial tension that results in many more Michael Browns than Dillon Taylors (in proportion to the general population)?

Moreover, considering the overwhelming evidence that suggests that black Americans are treated and viewed differently than white Americans by the law, Brown's death is part and parcel of a larger social and cultural issue. Taylor's death is a tragedy (assuming, of course, he wasn't actually carrying a weapon, that hasn't been determined yet), but it speaks not to the greater racial divide that still leaves a large percentage of American citizens behind. I don't know if the police officer who shot Brown acted on racist impulses (I think it's unfair to assume such without more information coming to light), but Brown's death continues the narrative and pattern of black citizens being brutalized by the law. Dillon's death doesn't speak to that effect. That doesn't mean it's not a tragedy if the police officer who took Dillion's life acted improperly. But it's not symptomatic of a larger ill that continues to plague the country.

As Mark Robison writes for Reno-Gazette Journal:

Last month, in Aurora, Colorado — site of a 2012 mass shooting at a movie theater — 18-year-old Steve Lohner was confronted by police as he held a loaded shotgun after buying cigarettes. He refused to cooperate and taunted police. He was not killed or even arrested. He is white.

Would the chances of a bad outcome have increased if he'd been black? It seems so.

On the other hand, a black police officer shot and killed a reportedly unarmed white man named Dillon Taylor in South Salt Lake, Utah earlier this month.

The reverse happens. It would've been more accurate to call police killings of unarmed white suspects rare.

Edited August 27, 2014 by downzy

[Jakey Styley]

^I agree with you. I think I was kinda "softening" my stance on the issue so as not to come off as extreme or as too biased towards one side.

I actually only just saw your reply to Val about this, somehow I missed it, it's basically everything I wanted to say.