Slash had no idea what the November Rain music video was about..

[wasted]

I think it's something each person has to take in their own special way.

Edited September 21, 2014 by wasted

[magisme]

I think it's something each person has to take in their own special way.

wasted for prez

[Rovim]

Yes, perhaps, but the two albums come dangerously close to be irreparably fucked up. The bass voice which goes, ''deep down in sight'', seriously messes up what is a raw Stradlin copuntry ballad. I also do not like the ''t-minus and counting'' thing on Perfect Crime.

No, it did not come "dangerously close". The songs were there, there was enough good shit there to not make it about Axl's sfx fetish.

Dude, the synth in Paradise City ruined the song for me!

Edited September 21, 2014 by Rovim

[HubbaBubba]

I think it's something each person has to take in their own special way.

Ha! Timing is everything!

I quite enjoy those little textures on the illusions, but then again I did grow up with them.

Whether Axl would admit to it or not, I think tinkering with the material was probably a way of putting off the day of judgement as much as anything else. But this is totally understandable. After Appetite, who wouldn't feel the weight of expectation? This was just Axl's way of dealing with it, and it's not even that unusual a reaction to that degree of pressure. I remember reading somewhere that by the end if the illusions album cycle guns had sold more records in four or so years than Dylan had in his whole career. That's insane!

The real problem came by the time he reached CD. By this stage he was surrounded only by yes-men, and artistic input was given within an employee-boss framework.

And with the success of the previous albums plus time passing, the rising balloon of expectation he was hanging on to had gone too high. It was way too late to think of letting go. He knew it, we knew it, and the critics knew it.

So what could he do? Keep hitting those same old buttons in he hope it would see him through again. And then have the over-egged result prized out of your reluctant grasp by an industry kingpin & manipulator, who knew you'd never in a million years hand it over willingly.

And the end result largely (and I think quite fairly) reflected all of this - to see that you only need to listen to the title track, which simultaneously manages to be spectacularly complex in its layering and texturing, but at its heart still hopelessly bland. But most disappointingly of all for long-standing guns fans like me, it sounds suspiciously like a second-rate Jungle rip-off. A deliberate one. And that is a tough thing to hear.

[wasted]

I made that rumor up. No, I read that GNR sold 100mil records after UYI which is what Zepp sold their whole career. That's all the big bands sell. So GNR were at the pinnacle. I remember watching Rod Stewart sulking on Wogan (the truth hurts) and he was saying us rock n roll guys are old hat now, It's all Axl and Slash now. Butthurt: Orgins.

[Rovim]

I made that rumor up. No, I read that GNR sold 100mil records after UYI which is what Zepp sold their whole career. That's all the big bands sell. So GNR were at the pinnacle. I remember watching Rod Stewart sulking on Wogan (the truth hurts) and he was saying us rock n roll guys are old hat now, It's all Axl and Slash now. Butthurt: Orgins.

Rod Stewart is a cunt. If you can't accept your time is up you're a cunt. But that's not why Rod Stewart is a cunt. There are other reasons.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Rovim

[magisme]

Yes, perhaps, but the two albums come dangerously close to be irreparably fucked up. The bass voice which goes, ''deep down in sight'', seriously messes up what is a raw Stradlin copuntry ballad. I also do not like the ''t-minus and counting'' thing on Perfect Crime.

No, it did not come "dangerously close". The songs were there, there was enough good shit there to not make it about Axl's sfx fetish.

Dude, the synth in Paradise City ruined the song for me!

I don't think you can so easily dismiss what DD is saying. That's part of the standard beef from people who criticize those albums, which is a lot of people: they're bloated and filled with a bunch of unnecessary shit. Then Axl cranked all that to eleven for CD.

[Rovim]

Yes, perhaps, but the two albums come dangerously close to be irreparably fucked up. The bass voice which goes, ''deep down in sight'', seriously messes up what is a raw Stradlin copuntry ballad. I also do not like the ''t-minus and counting'' thing on Perfect Crime.

No, it did not come "dangerously close". The songs were there, there was enough good shit there to not make it about Axl's sfx fetish.

Dude, the synth in Paradise City ruined the song for me!

I don't think you can so easily dismiss what DD is saying. That's part of the standard beef from people who criticize those albums, which is a lot of people: they're bloated and filled with a bunch of unnecessary shit. Then Axl cranked all that to eleven for CD.

But Diesel said the Illusions were ruined by it, which is just not the case. Axl's sfx was a bunch of shit that was more annoying then anything else. It didn't have a big enough of an effect on the Illusions to ZOMG DESTORY! them.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Rovim

[magisme]

Yes, perhaps, but the two albums come dangerously close to be irreparably fucked up. The bass voice which goes, ''deep down in sight'', seriously messes up what is a raw Stradlin copuntry ballad. I also do not like the ''t-minus and counting'' thing on Perfect Crime.

No, it did not come "dangerously close". The songs were there, there was enough good shit there to not make it about Axl's sfx fetish.

Dude, the synth in Paradise City ruined the song for me!

I don't think you can so easily dismiss what DD is saying. That's part of the standard beef from people who criticize those albums, which is a lot of people: they're bloated and filled with a bunch of unnecessary shit. Then Axl cranked all that to eleven for CD.

But Diesel said the Illusions were ruined by it, which is just not the case. Axl's sfx was a bunch of shit that was more annoying then anything else. It didn't have a big enough of an effect on the Illusions to ZOMG DESTORY! them.

To be fair, DD did back off from the "destroy" thing.

[Rovim]

Yes, perhaps, but the two albums come dangerously close to be irreparably fucked up. The bass voice which goes, ''deep down in sight'', seriously messes up what is a raw Stradlin copuntry ballad. I also do not like the ''t-minus and counting'' thing on Perfect Crime.

No, it did not come "dangerously close". The songs were there, there was enough good shit there to not make it about Axl's sfx fetish.

Dude, the synth in Paradise City ruined the song for me!

I don't think you can so easily dismiss what DD is saying. That's part of the standard beef from people who criticize those albums, which is a lot of people: they're bloated and filled with a bunch of unnecessary shit. Then Axl cranked all that to eleven for CD.

But Diesel said the Illusions were ruined by it, which is just not the case. Axl's sfx was a bunch of shit that was more annoying then anything else. It didn't have a big enough of an effect on the Illusions to ZOMG DESTORY! them.

To be fair, DD did back off from the "destroy" thing.

To be fair, "DD" did back off from the "destroy" thing, but only to proceed and claim it came "dangerously close" to be irreparably fucked up. Honestly now, it didn't.

Axl's sfx were not that major. Annoying as fuck to many - absolutely. But dangerously close? not with the songs the band wrote and recorded for that album. The material was too strong for that, and most Guns fans accepted it and loved it and you could tell. Not even close imo.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Rovim

[HubbaBubba]

Rod Stewart is indeed a tit.

The guns vs Dylan thing is crazy but true, to the extent that I got it from a guns documentary.

If it took a year of tinkering to get the illusions out, it was worth it and IMHO didn't ruin the album.

[magisme]

Most Guns fans accepted it, yes, but this isn't CD era where the best you can hope for is that returning Guns fans like it. This was coming off what turned out to be the biggest debut album ever. Look, I love Illusions, they're my favorite GNR albums, but Axl made a clown show out of them at some points. I don't know if someone was in his ear telling him everything he did was genius, but someone in the studio needed to cut the mic when he wasn't singing.

[Rovim]

Most Guns fans accepted it, yes, but this isn't CD era where the best you can hope for is that returning Guns fans like it. This was coming off what turned out to be the biggest debut album ever. Look, I love Illusions, they're my favorite GNR albums, but Axl made a clown show out of them at some points. I don't know if someone was in his ear telling him everything he did was genius, but someone in the studio needed to cut the mic when he wasn't singing.

But we're talking about Axl's sfx bullshit and how it influenced the albums and Illusions sold a shitload. Occupied the first and second places on the chart. It did the trick. It worked again for the band. Artistically, the vision of the band was clear even with Axl's sfx and tinkering in the studio.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Rovim

[HubbaBubba]

I honestly think the effects didn't intrude that much on the music. At what points specifically do you think it sounds like a clown show?

[magisme]

I'm not even talking about just effects. I'm talking about all the extra shit Axl put in. A lot of it is unnecessary vocals.

1. RNDTH: FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU, BIIIIIITCH! Ridiculous

2. The last note Don't Cry.

3. Perfect Crime: 1 2 3 4 6 7 8!!!

4. Bad Obsession: Maybe you'll do better next time... punk.

5. Don't Damn Me: Chester Cheetah and Alright, that sucked.

6. Bad Apples: Booooooooyyyyyyyy

7. Coma: The girls talking about Axl and the zap the son of a bitch again parts

8. Civil War: Cringey song in generall, Cool Hand Luke unnecessary

9. KOHD: Studio version of that song is one big, bloated, overproduced mess.

10. Get in the Ring: Do I even need to say anything?

11. Shotgun Blues: Do you think anyone with an IQ over 15....

12. Breakdown: All his bullshit at the end.

13. Pretty Tied Up: Cool Ranch Dressing

14. So Fine: the whole song is a clown show.

15. My World

And that's just off the top of my head.

[HubbaBubba]

That list is kinda self-defeating. None of those additions, cheesy as they are, ruin the songs. My world is a total clown show (but Axl blames slash for letting him do that one!).

[Rovim]

I'm not even talking about just effects. I'm talking about all the extra shit Axl put in. A lot of it is unnecessary vocals.

1. RNDTH: FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU, BIIIIIITCH! Ridiculous

2. The last note Don't Cry.

3. Perfect Crime: 1 2 3 4 6 7 8!!!

4. Bad Obsession: Maybe you'll do better next time... punk.

5. Don't Damn Me: Chester Cheetah and Alright, that sucked.

6. Bad Apples: Booooooooyyyyyyyy

7. Coma: The girls talking about Axl and the zap the son of a bitch again parts

8. Civil War: Cringey song in generall, Cool Hand Luke unnecessary

9. KOHD: Studio version of that song is one big, bloated, overproduced mess.

10. Get in the Ring: Do I even need to say anything?

11. Shotgun Blues: Do you think anyone with an IQ over 15....

12. Breakdown: All his bullshit at the end.

13. Pretty Tied Up: Cool Ranch Dressing

14. So Fine: the whole song is a clown show.

15. My World

And that's just off the top of my head.

Honestly, I think all of that probably had more of an effect on us, super hardcore fans and not on most Guns fans.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Rovim

[wasted]

I made that rumor up. No, I read that GNR sold 100mil records after UYI which is what Zepp sold their whole career. That's all the big bands sell. So GNR were at the pinnacle. I remember watching Rod Stewart sulking on Wogan (the truth hurts) and he was saying us rock n roll guys are old hat now, It's all Axl and Slash now. Butthurt: Orgins.

Rod Stewart is a cunt. If you can't accept your time is up you're a cunt. But that's not why Rod Stewart is a cunt. There are other reasons.

He didn't seem overly bothered by it. Strangely he's still about playing the Common Wealth games opening ceremony. In all orange or was that the after glow from the sun bed tan.

[wasted]

That list is kinda self-defeating. None of those additions, cheesy as they are, ruin the songs. My world is a total clown show (but Axl blames slash for letting him do that one!).

Duff was partying with NWA playing them My World. They all loved it.

Same with the Get in the Ring rant. People in the studio were encouraging him.

I feel like it worked at the time, kind of a Stones thing or from rap shows. The Boi is kind of Public enemy.,

I'm not sure who else does it rock other than DLR and Stones did add some you could be mine to Emotional Rescue.

Like why the whistling but I think it works. Maybe cool hand luke whistles a lot and Axl sees himself as the Paul Newman of rock n roll.

The cabin is surrounded by Mexican army Axl and Dj are nah fuck it lets not release the album maybe they will go to Taco Bell or something.

Edited September 21, 2014 by wasted

[Rovim]

That list is kinda self-defeating. None of those additions, cheesy as they are, ruin the songs. My world is a total clown show (but Axl blames slash for letting him do that one!).

Duff was partying with NWA playing them My World. They all loved it.

Same with the Get in the Ring rant. People in the studio were encouraging him.

I feel like it worked at the time, kind of a Stones thing or from rap shows. The Boi is kind of Public enemy.,

I'm not sure who else does it rock other than DLR and Stones did add some you could be mine to Emotional Rescue.

Like why the whistling but I think it works. Maybe cool hand like whistles a lot and sees himself as the Paul Newman rock n roll.

The cabin is surrounded by Mexican army Axl and Dj are nah fuck it lets not release the album maybe they will go to Taco Bell or something.

The whistles are more acceptable cause idk, maybe sound more natural and feel organic.

[Tom-Ass]

I'm not even talking about just effects. I'm talking about all the extra shit Axl put in. A lot of it is unnecessary vocals.

1. RNDTH: FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU, BIIIIIITCH! Ridiculous

2. The last note Don't Cry.

3. Perfect Crime: 1 2 3 4 6 7 8!!!

4. Bad Obsession: Maybe you'll do better next time... punk.

5. Don't Damn Me: Chester Cheetah and Alright, that sucked.

6. Bad Apples: Booooooooyyyyyyyy

7. Coma: The girls talking about Axl and the zap the son of a bitch again parts

8. Civil War: Cringey song in generall, Cool Hand Luke unnecessary

9. KOHD: Studio version of that song is one big, bloated, overproduced mess.

10. Get in the Ring: Do I even need to say anything?

11. Shotgun Blues: Do you think anyone with an IQ over 15....

12. Breakdown: All his bullshit at the end.

13. Pretty Tied Up: Cool Ranch Dressing

14. So Fine: the whole song is a clown show.

15. My World

And that's just off the top of my head.

Great list.. All that shit is cheesy as hell. And as someone stated after they didn't ruin the songs.. No they didn't ruin them for us because we are all Gn'R freaks. But it certainly sounds corny to lesser fans.. Maybe why you hear alot of people shit on those albums these days and say Guns only had one good album. I was a teen back then and Axl could have farted in a microphone and I would have loved it. These days it just sounds dumb..

16. the corny actually whisper and sigh from don't cry.

17. The sigh and whistle in Estranged

18. The dumb shit at the end of Back Off Bitch

19. The uneeded "I got LIESSS" in Double Talkin Jive

20. The nutcracker in Dead Horse

[wasted]

Do you think Axl though some of the songs were lacking? It's like stuff you say after a shitty take and he left it in.

I like CivilvWar and Heavens Door quotes. The rant in Get inb4 Ring was the best thing about the song.

All the rage lyrics. Axl lashing out at everything kind of defined the records.

I like T minus 109 and countin. Deep down inside is cool, it changes the song meaning.

[Rovim]

Do you think Axl though some of the songs were lacking? It's like stuff you say after a shitty take and he left it in.

I like CivilvWar and Heavens Door quotes. The rant in Get inb4 Ring was the best thing about the song.

All the rage lyrics. Axl lashing out at everything kind of defined the records.

I like T minus 109 and countin. Deep down inside is cool, it changes the song meaning.

Yeah, I like some of the sfx shit. Some work better then others. Mostly, I think it adds and detracts at the same time. Like it adds more openess, like an extra something to think about or make it more then just a closed off tune like Appetite. Speaking of Appetite, you've had sex moans in Rocket Queen which did the same thing too. Added a wtf moment and then COOL SOMEONE IS BEING FUCKED ON THE FLOOR when you're young it's cool to some, or FUCK WHERE DOES HE get THE BALLS and something for the media to talk about.

I like the perfect crime thing, civil war too (madagascar comeback) and a few others and what I don't like...I guess it's not as big of a deal to me and to most Guns fans. Makes it more Axl.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Rovim

[wasted]

There's something on every song. I never really noticed. Some of tracks are pretty so by the end you are happy to hear Axl say something amusing.

[Rovim]

There's something on every song. I never really noticed. Some of tracks are pretty so by the end you are happy to hear Axl say something amusing.

I really like the intro to Pretty Tied Up. "THE PERILS OF ROCK N' RRRROLLLLL DECADENCE" in ironic Axl voice and then some more Izzy sitar. That's badass.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Rovim