Why was Izzy's amp unplugged during the '91 UYI tour?

[ludurigan]

10 hours ago, tremolo said:

I think context is everything.

The band at that point (UYI recordings) was a trainwreck.

I've worked in the music business, I've been in recording studios, and I have been lucky enough to share those spaces with great artists and producers. From my experience, the standard is: show up with your songs ready, record in a few takes and get out. If a record takes longer than 2 weeks, someone is fucking up! Music is pretty much a time capsule, you capture a vibe, a mood, a story in the form of sound. You can't fuck around for months with an idea, or you lose that.

Izzy just wanted to get shit done the way it is supposed to be done. But it was a shitshow, mostly because of Axl, because based on what has been written, as fucked up as Duff and Slash were, they got their takes done quickly, same goes for Matt. But if you are in a functional band, you can't record your songs individually, one track at a time whenever someone decides to show up.

About the videos, he saw how the focus shifted from making music to these self-indulgent extravagant ideas that were nobody's but Axl's. The rest of the band didn't give a shot about it, but they compromised. My guess is that they were too fucked up to care much. The "problem" is that Izzy was sober, and the guy just wanted to do what he signed up for in the first place: make and play music. And since he was sober, he could clearly see where the whole thing was heading, and he didn't want to be a part of it, and the restnis history.

 

Now, with the reunion that didn't happen, I guess there was hope that after all these years, and with Slash back in the fold, things would be different. The fact that Slash and Axl were in good terms again opened the door to the possibility that this would be back to being a more or less functional band, that after all that was said and done for so many years, the fact those 2 were cool again meant that gnr was not a dictatorship anymore, cause Slash wouldn't put up with that crap, because he didn't have to, after all he built a name for himself and has a very successful career. But then you show up, hoping for the best, and you realise that nothing has changed, that the dynamics are pretty much the same, and the only difference is that Slash and Duff are now sober. It's still Axl's b(r)and, "the loot" is split according to what he considers fair, he is the one calling the shots.

For those who claim that it's Izzy's own greed that kept him out of this so-called reunion, I think that the way the loot was to be split wasn't the one and only problem in itself, but it clearly set the tone of how the b(r)and is managed. It was the writing on the wall, Izzy read it, and he didn't want to deal with the same shit that made him quit the band more than 1/4 of a century ago.

exactly

14 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

I don't know where that bullshit of Izzy not rehearsing with the band when he got back in '93 came from, but there's a video out there (I think is on the "Most dangerous band in the world" documentary) of Izzy singing Nightrain in rehearsals in Tel Aviv '93, cause, guess who really wasn't there to sing it? Yeah 

that nightrain sounds so good

[ludurigan]

5 hours ago, NicDwolfwood said:

Hey man, I can only work with what is out there. None of us were really there were we?  We are relying on the anecdotes and recollections of people that were there. However shit went down, they werent happy with his parts or how they sounded, which is why Slash overdubbed over it. Now if your position on this is that Slash is simply an asshole and wanted all the glory to himself, then that is fine. I wont try to convince you otherwise. I prefer to try and see things from different angles and try and understands everyones viewpoint. Izzy himself hasnt divulged much detail on the events either, except that he went in did his parts, and split. He didnt want to do deal with all the bloated ballads and the stuff Axl was doing with the keyboards and synths. But then again its not hard to see how his bandmates in the state that they were in would see this as lack of commitment. Im sure Duff and Slash disagreed with the direction as well, but had to do what they to be a functioning band again.  

 

As for the bolded I said I thought it was a Slap in the face to Izzy. Guess you didnt read that carefully. Me saying I can kinda see the rest viewpoint isnt justifying it. Like I said, I dont have allegiance to any particular side here. So chill, dont get worked up on shit that has no bearing on neither you or my own life. 

 

My recollection of what Izzy has said of this shows was that he did them to try and recoup Cash owed to him, play/ see new places and to see his bandmates. HE himself said he spent little time with the band, and the only time he even hung out with one of them was with Slash when they went shopping or they ran into each other while both were out shopping, something like that. That itself fucking tells you all you need to know. If he spent such little time with them, I see it highly unlikely that Slash is lying about Izzy not rehearsing, and simply getting in and getting out.

Slash re-recorded and erased some of Izzy's parts without even telling him about it. That tells you all you need to know about the whole thing, about how classy Slash was on that particular matter, doesnt it?

The contract is not a slap in the face. It's a low, low move. Despicable to say the least. You do that cold shit with business partners. You dont ever do that with somebody that you grew up with and wrote songs with and are/were friends with and spent years on the road with. That tells you all you need to know about the whole thing, about how classy Axl was on that particular matter, doesnt it?

So its not really about taking sides. It's about seeing the apparently obvious reality that Axl and Slash were doing shitty moves.

That's why i dont buy the "Izzy recorded nothing more than Scratch takes on Illusions, and then split" story for one minute.

That's why i dont buy the "Izzy refused to feature in any of the videos" story for one minute.

That's why i dont buy the "Slash couldnt even get Izzy to rehearse" story for a minute as well. It was actually Izzy who said that tried to make them learn some covers so they could play covers instead of solos but nobody wanted it mostly because they were all zombies back then.

Izzy rehearsing with them in 1993. Of course this video proves nothing. It's just a blast to watch it.

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by ludurigan

[double talkin jive mfkr]

10 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

Slash re-recorded and erased some of Izzy's parts without even telling him about it. That tells you all you need to know about the whole thing, about how classy Slash was on that particular matter, doesnt it?

The contract is not a slap in the face. It's a low, low move. Despicable to say the least. You do that cold shit with business partners. You dont ever do that with somebody that you grew up with and wrote songs with and are/were friends with and spent years on the road with. That tells you all you need to know about the whole thing, about how classy Axl was on that particular matter, doesnt it?

So its not really about taking sides. It's about seeing the apparently obvious reality that Axl and Slash were doing shitty moves.

That's why i dont buy the "Izzy recorded nothing more than Scratch takes on Illusions, and then split" story for one minute.

That's why i dont buy the "Izzy refused to feature in any of the videos" story for one minute.

That's why i dont buy the "Slash couldnt even get Izzy to rehearse" story for a minute as well. It was actually Izzy who said that tried to make them learn some covers so they could play covers instead of solos but nobody wanted it mostly because they were all zombies back then.

all this x100

[Tonto]

21 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

Slash re-recorded and erased some of Izzy's parts without even telling him about it. That tells you all you need to know about the whole thing, about how classy Slash was on that particular matter, doesnt it?

The contract is not a slap in the face. It's a low, low move. Despicable to say the least. You do that cold shit with business partners. You dont ever do that with somebody that you grew up with and wrote songs with and are/were friends with and spent years on the road with. That tells you all you need to know about the whole thing, about how classy Axl was on that particular matter, doesnt it?

So its not really about taking sides. It's about seeing the apparently obvious reality that Axl and Slash were doing shitty moves.

That's why i dont buy the "Izzy recorded nothing more than Scratch takes on Illusions, and then split" story for one minute.

That's why i dont buy the "Izzy refused to feature in any of the videos" story for one minute.

That's why i dont buy the "Slash couldnt even get Izzy to rehearse" story for a minute as well. It was actually Izzy who said that tried to make them learn some covers so they could play covers instead of solos but nobody wanted it mostly because they were all zombies back then.

It clearly is about taking sides for you because you could be putting the horse before the cart, but you don't care. You have arranged your statements to suit your already established point of view that Axl and Slash were in the wrong and Izzy was in the right.

How do you know that Axl's and Slash's treatment of Izzy wasn't in response to behaviour like not wanting to be part of videos, not putting in enough effort, etc? Wouldn't it be more justified if it was? 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Tonto

[Darkenchantress]

Izzy has said a couple of times that, since he didn't have a say in the videos, he didn't want to be a part of them. Simple as that.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

GNR SUCKS AND AXL SLASH AND DUFF ARE THE REASON! nothing has changed since wembley 1991 

[Tonto]

13 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

Izzy has said a couple of times that, since he didn't have a say in the videos, he didn't want to be a part of them. Simple as that.

The definition of a team player!

[Darkenchantress]

3 minutes ago, Tonto said:

The definition of a team player!

Guns n' roses had stopped being a "team" way before that, actually. 

[Izzymacbeth]

Glad someone posted the Robert John doc. Have always taken anything Slash said with a pinch (bucket) of salt after he said he couldn't get Izzy to rehearse those 93 dates when clearly, broadcast on the BBC, I watched him rehearse in Tel Aviv with them. 

Also the 'Izzy doesnt like touring' thing is getting tiresome. The man constantly travels the world. He just doesnt play guitar at the end of each day. He loves travelling. He has said so in the Tunecore interview and other times. 

What Izzy doesn't like is what Guns N' Roses are/have become. If it was Appetite all over again, 5 original guys playing rock n roll he'd be there. It's  not though, it's a bloated version with keyboardists, songs he prob doesn't care for and basically that version he left only this time with MORE managers, contracts, rules and bullshit.

There will be 3 more Izzy albums before there is a GN'R one, at the very least. And I am ok with that. 

[Tonto]

Just now, Darkenchantress said:

Guns n' roses had stopped being a "team" way before that, actually. 

Some people have different strengths, you might not like those videos, Axl may not even like them now (most artists are very critical of themselves) but they propelled them into superstars (along with the great tunes of course). Izzy didn't like Axl's vision, fine, but he could have supported, the rest did and we know they weren't that crazy about them. Izzy didn't want to be in a big band like that, god knows why you wouldn't want to try to be as big and successful as possible, but there you go. The videos worked out, they were a good move for the band.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

5 minutes ago, Tonto said:

Some people have different strengths, you might not like those videos, Axl may not even like them now (most artists are very critical of themselves) but they propelled them into superstars (along with the great tunes of course). Izzy didn't like Axl's vision, fine, but he could have supported, the rest did and we know they weren't that crazy about them. Izzy didn't want to be in a big band like that, god knows why you wouldn't want to try to be as big and successful as possible, but there you go. The videos worked out, they were a good move for the band.

im going to agree to disagree 

don't cry was the beginning of the end for that trilogy - although the least pompous of them - NR still a good video - estranged an even better one but all the more pompous and actually alienated a lot fans and people from Axl - as it was completely self indulgant and made him look like an ego driven troubled individual in pretty much each video when something simpler and less concept driven would've brought the band together better 

 

izzy has led zeppelin esque mystique no press no showing off no interviews he outdo's axl in all departments on what rock and roll should be 

Edited August 31, 2017 by double talkin jive mfkr

[NicDwolfwood]

56 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

Slash re-recorded and erased some of Izzy's parts without even telling him about it. That tells you all you need to know about the whole thing, about how classy Slash was on that particular matter, doesnt it?

The contract is not a slap in the face. It's a low, low move. Despicable to say the least. You do that cold shit with business partners. You dont ever do that with somebody that you grew up with and wrote songs with and are/were friends with and spent years on the road with. That tells you all you need to know about the whole thing, about how classy Axl was on that particular matter, doesnt it?

So its not really about taking sides. It's about seeing the apparently obvious reality that Axl and Slash were doing shitty moves.

That's why i dont buy the "Izzy recorded nothing more than Scratch takes on Illusions, and then split" story for one minute.

That's why i dont buy the "Izzy refused to feature in any of the videos" story for one minute.

That's why i dont buy the "Slash couldnt even get Izzy to rehearse" story for a minute as well. It was actually Izzy who said that tried to make them learn some covers so they could play covers instead of solos but nobody wanted it mostly because they were all zombies back then.

Izzy rehearsing with them in 1993. Of course this video proves nothing. It's just a blast to watch it.

 

The Problem is again, neither of us were fucking there. Everyone has their side of the story. If Izzy for example recorded his parts, be it "scratch takes' or "basic rhythm parts" They werent satisfied with it and couldnt get Izzy to come back and redo some shit. Thats what they have said. We only have their side of the argument, Izzy has never divulged much aside from saying, he came in did his shit and was done wit it. So we're left with a bunch of he said, she said arent we?? I cant shit talk people when I dont know the finer details.The Fine details are only known to those who were there. and even that can changed based on peoples memory or how intoxicated they were.  You can believe who you want. It doesnt make a goddamn difference to me.

You can refuse to believe he refused to do videos, but the proof is in the fucking pudding. He isnt in Dont Cry, He isnt in You Could be Mine. They didnt forget about him. They didnt exclude him. He DIDNT WANT TO DO IT. He had his reasons. but guess what, the rest of the band didnt want to do the videos either, but they compromised anyway. He didnt, and it is what it is. 

 

Fair enough on the rehearsal clip, I retract my Izzy didnt rehearse at all in 93 with them. 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by NicDwolfwood

[Tonto]

Just now, double talkin jive mfkr said:

im going to agree to disagree 

don't cry was the beginning of the end for that trilogy - although the least pompous of them - NR still a good video - estranged an even better one but all the more pompous and actually alienated a lot fans and people from Axl - as it was completely self indulgant and made him look like an ego driven troubled individual in pretty much each video when something simpler and less concept driven would've brought the band together better 

Fair enough and it certainly did alienate some fans but it brought in the casuals, those videos only made the band bigger worldwide. It's sort of like Sweet Child O' Mine, they had cross over appeal. When a band changes of course some fans are going to be left behind, you don't like the current line up much and that's fair enough, but it's one of the biggest tours ever and it's obviously the right thing to do for the band and for most of the fan base, the attendance numbers don't lie, THIS IS THE REUNION most wanted. If it wasn't you would expect them to maintain the draw they had with the previous line ups without Duff and Slash, but they don't, they smash that.

[IncitingChaos]

Why is this thread so active? Haha I haven't followed so someone fill me in. 

[ludurigan]

10 minutes ago, NicDwolfwood said:

The Problem is again, neither of us were fucking there. Everyone has their side of the story. If Izzy for example recorded his parts, be it "scratch takes' or "basic rhythm parts" They werent satisfied with it and couldnt get Izzy to come back and redo some shit. Thats what they have said. We only have their side of the argument, Izzy has never divulged much aside from saying, he came in did his shit and was done wit it. So we're left with a bunch of he said, she said arent we?? I cant shit talk people when I dont know the finer details.The Fine details are only known to those who were there. and even that can changed based on peoples memory or how intoxicated they were.  You can believe who you want. It doesnt make a goddamn difference to me.

You can refuse to believe he refused to do videos, but the proof is in the fucking pudding. He isnt in Dont Cry, He isnt in You Could be Mine. They didnt forget about him. They didnt exclude him. He DIDNT WANT TO DO IT. He had his reasons. but guess what, the rest of the band didnt want to do the videos either, but they compromised anyway. He didnt, and it is what it is. 

 

Fair enough on the rehearsal clip, I retract my Izzy didnt rehearse at all in 93 with them. 

 

 

Of course none of us was there and we probably dont know 10% of what really happened.

"If they knew half the real truth, what would they say"

I dont think it's that simple like "Izzy did his shit and left". Given all the info that is available, it's way more likely Izzy, Slash, Duff, Matt and Dizzy recorded all the basic tracks, and after that, they must have had some sort of talk like "ok, we did it", and then Izzy left. I dont think Izzy would ever leave unless he was sure (and everyone else agreed) that he had done all that there was to do.

I also dont remember any interview where Slash or Axl say that they tried to contact Izzy and tried to have him back to redo stuff and Izzy didnt agree or refused to re-record stuff. If you know any interview where they say that, please let me know.

Oh, and seriously, the fact that you had never seen that 1993 clip and and thus believed that Izzy didnt rehearse with them in 1993... I am sorry to say that, but that shows a lot about how much you know about GNR. That is not a rare video by any means, it has been on circulation for years (maybe more than a decade) and it has been discussed many times on GNR forums. So yeah it shows that you dont really know much about what you are talking about. So when I read you say stuff like "Izzy has never divulged much aside from saying, he came in did his shit and was done wit it" I tend to believe that it is actually you that never actually read/listened to izzy interviews about that particular period. There are quite a few if you ask me, but maybe you just know Slash's and Axl's side of the story.

[ludurigan]

1 hour ago, Tonto said:

It clearly is about taking sides for you because you could be putting the horse before the cart, but you don't care. You have arranged your statements to suit your already established point of view that Axl and Slash were in the wrong and Izzy was in the right.

How do you know that Axl's and Slash's treatment of Izzy wasn't in response to behaviour like not wanting to be part of videos, not putting in enough effort, etc? Wouldn't it be more justified if it was? 

I dont know anything for sure. But i have been reading/listening/watching interviews and statements from all these guys for nearly three decades.

If you consider Axl trying to push that obscene contract to Izzy and Slash erasing Izzy parts without asking him or even letting him know as "normal" stuff that you do to a bandmate, ok. I dont think that is normal or even acceptable. If a person does that to a bandmate, would you trust this person statement in interviews?

These guys have been caught lying more than one time.

Dont even need to go so far back. Go back a few years and Axl was saying repeteadly that Slash was better avoided and that he would never be with Slash again. And Slash said just a while ago that he was open to do a reunion if it was the five guys for the right reasons.

Yeah.

It's really easy to believe these guys.

[Tonto]

1 minute ago, ludurigan said:

I dont know anything for sure. But i have been reading/listening/watching interviews and statements from all these guys for nearly three decades.

If you consider Axl trying to push that obscene contract to Izzy and Slash erasing Izzy parts without asking him or even letting him know as "normal" stuff that you do to a bandmate, ok. I dont think that is normal or even acceptable. If a person does that to a bandmate, would you trust this person statement in interviews?

These guys have been caught lying more than one time.

Dont even need to go so far back. Go back a few years and Axl was saying repeteadly that Slash was better avoided and that he would never be with Slash again. And Slash said just a while ago that he was open to do a reunion if it was the five guys for the right reasons.

Yeah.

It's really easy to believe these guys.

It's not a lie to say Slash is better off avoided, it's not a lie to say that he would never play with Slash again. A lie would be saying that he never played with Slash in GN'R, see the difference? Clearly as time went on wounds were healed. People can change their mind, right? Izzy wanted nothing to do with Axl and his new line up's, he was offered to take Paul Huge's spot at rock in rio, he turned it down. Then, 5 years later things changed again, and we see him back on stage with Axl.

[Modano09]

2 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

I dont know anything for sure. But i have been reading/listening/watching interviews and statements from all these guys for nearly three decades.

If you consider Axl trying to push that obscene contract to Izzy and Slash erasing Izzy parts without asking him or even letting him know as "normal" stuff that you do to a bandmate, ok. I dont think that is normal or even acceptable. If a person does that to a bandmate, would you trust this person statement in interviews?

These guys have been caught lying more than one time.

Dont even need to go so far back. Go back a few years and Axl was saying repeteadly that Slash was better avoided and that he would never be with Slash again. And Slash said just a while ago that he was open to do a reunion if it was the five guys for the right reasons.

Yeah.

It's really easy to believe these guys.

Lying, and opinions/circumstances changing over time, aren't the same thing. 

As far as re-recording Izzy's parts or trying to make him sign a contract, it's pretty well known that Izzy was distancing himself from the band at the time and the guy's whole persona is pretty much wanting to just go with the flow and do his own thing on his own time, no pressure, no fan fare, etc. I can see if, in the other's eyes, they didn't think Izzy was pulling his weight.  

[ludurigan]

3 minutes ago, Tonto said:

It's not a lie to say Slash is better off avoided, it's not a lie to say that he would never play with Slash again. A lie would be saying that he never played with Slash in GN'R, see the difference? Clearly as time went on wounds were healed. People can change their mind, right? Izzy wanted nothing to do with Axl and his new line up's, he was offered to take Paul Huge's spot at rock in rio, he turned it down. Then, 5 years later things changed again, and we see him back on stage with Axl.

i believe axl said the wouldnt play with slash ever again, "not in this lifetime". i also believe the current guns n aliens tour was named after that famous quote. but i may be wrong

oh yeah, i agree with you, its nice when people change their minds.

now off topic, can you provide source for izzy being offered to take Paul Huge's spot at rock in rio and turning it down? i dont know muchh about axl solo career and thats an interesting topic that i dont remember ever being mentioned anywhere else

[Modano09]

Just now, ludurigan said:

i believe axl said the wouldnt play with slash ever again, "not in this lifetime". i also believe the current guns n aliens tour was named after that famous quote. but i may be wrong

oh yeah, i agree with you, its nice when people change their minds.

now off topic, can you provide source for izzy being offered to take Paul Huge's spot at rock in rio and turning it down? i dont know muchh about axl solo career and thats an interesting topic that i dont remember ever being mentioned anywhere else

He did say that. And you continue to miss the difference between a lie and something that was said because it was how a person felt at the time, but has since changed. 

[ludurigan]

8 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

Lying, and opinions/circumstances changing over time, aren't the same thing. 

As far as re-recording Izzy's parts or trying to make him sign a contract, it's pretty well known that Izzy was distancing himself from the band at the time and the guy's whole persona is pretty much wanting to just go with the flow and do his own thing on his own time, no pressure, no fan fare, etc. I can see if, in the other's eyes, they didn't think Izzy was pulling his weight.  

yeah so the obvious thing to do to a bandmate that is alienating himself from the band is give him an obscene contract and re-recording and erasing his parts!

[Modano09]

Just now, ludurigan said:

yeah so the obvious thing to do to a bandmate that is alienating himself from the band is give him an obscene contract and re-recording and erasing his parts!

No, they should have blown him and begged him to pay more attention to them because he wrote all the songs.

[Tonto]

Just now, ludurigan said:

i believe axl said the wouldnt play with slash ever again, "not in this lifetime". i also believe the current guns n aliens tour was named after that famous quote. but i may be wrong

oh yeah, i agree with you, its nice when people change their minds.

now off topic, can you provide source for izzy being offered to take Paul Huge's spot at rock in rio and turning it down? i dont know muchh about axl solo career and thats an interesting topic that i dont remember ever being mentioned anywhere else

I don't get your point, it's not a lie to say that, he changed his mind. A lie would be him saying that he never said that, something he hasn't said. He even named the tour after that statement, he took a shot at himself and you call him out for it? 

The source is Izzy Stradlin. He said it in a interview at some point, have a search for it mate, I don't have time right now, but yes, I was surprised when I read that too, not surprised Izzy said no, but that Axl made the offer.

[Tonto]

2 minutes ago, tremolo said:

What a load of poop.

Izzy was bad and mean because he didn't bow to Axl's whims... boo-hoo!

I think that in short, Izzy had/has a low tolerance for bullshit, that's what drove him away from the band. He was sober enough to realise that Axl was trying to take over and he decided not to be a part of it.

He did bow, he bowed out, couldn't even stick around to work things out with the band he co-formed. It wasn't going his way so he left. It's boo-hoo for Izzy and you not anyone else.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Tonto

[NicDwolfwood]

57 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

Of course none of us was there and we probably dont know 10% of what really happened.

"If they knew half the real truth, what would they say"

I dont think it's that simple like "Izzy did his shit and left". Given all the info that is available, it's way more likely Izzy, Slash, Duff, Matt and Dizzy recorded all the basic tracks, and after that, they must have had some sort of talk like "ok, we did it", and then Izzy left. I dont think Izzy would ever leave unless he was sure (and everyone else agreed) that he had done all that there was to do.

I also dont remember any interview where Slash or Axl say that they tried to contact Izzy and tried to have him back to redo stuff and Izzy didnt agree or refused to re-record stuff. If you know any interview where they say that, please let me know.

Oh, and seriously, the fact that you had never seen that 1993 clip and and thus believed that Izzy didnt rehearse with them in 1993... I am sorry to say that, but that shows a lot about how much you know about GNR. That is not a rare video by any means, it has been on circulation for years (maybe more than a decade) and it has been discussed many times on GNR forums. So yeah it shows that you dont really know much about what you are talking about. So when I read you say stuff like "Izzy has never divulged much aside from saying, he came in did his shit and was done wit it" I tend to believe that it is actually you that never actually read/listened to izzy interviews about that particular period. There are quite a few if you ask me, but maybe you just know Slash's and Axl's side of the story.

 

Quote

“The problem was with Izzy (Stradlin),” Slash says in the MusicRadar interview. “Because the album reached such gargantuan proportions as far as the production and complexity and the massive expectations [that] Izzy started to bow out. He was harder to find, because that was against his rock ‘n’ roll philosophy, which I totally agree with.”

“We got through the basic tracks and I think that’s what gave the albums such a natural feel. But when we started getting into the time it took to do overdubs and vocals, he sorta disappeared.”

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/slash-use-your-illusion-interview/?trackback=tsmclip

Interpret this as you wish. My take is  He did recorded basic tracks with the band. Then split. When they needed him for overdubs, he couldnt be reached. Whether they tried really hard in trying to get him to come back, we'll never fucking know. If they threw their hands up in the air because he was nowhere to be found, and said fuck it, just overdub his guitar lines where needed because they couldn't or didnt want to wait any longer. Thats what it is, cant be changed. If you disagree with how they went along with it, Cool. no problem from me. 

 

 

As for that last paragraph. Dude stop. No need to go there. You really want me to  remember every piece of info or video ive seen/read on this band over more than a decade. be serious. Im trying to remember shit off the cuff because I cant be bothered to really dive deep and look for this shit all over again. I used to have all this shit nice and tidy on my old computer, but that shit died a while back, And I couldnt be bothered to try and recover all that. 

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by NicDwolfwood