Why was Izzy's amp unplugged during the '91 UYI tour?

[RONIN]

16 hours ago, Lio said:

How do you know they offered him shit money? And where did you get that Axl's reasoning in 1991 about Izzy?

Oh well, nevermind, it's just the 'Izzy is a saint and Axl is the big bad wolf' narrative.

Do your research my man. Plenty of resources online where you can find the answers to your questions. Axl didn't earn his reputation of being the king of all douchebags overnight. There are some very good reasons why his own fans are divided about him. 

 

Edited August 30, 2017 by RONIN

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Tonto said:

They are listed as writers for that song in ASCAP. ASCAP doesn't split "the loot" any which way they feel like, they distribute it in two ways; 1. To the writers, 2. To the performers. They get that info directly from the band and record company. Adler didn't co-write Appetite, he is a credited for a few songs on that album (not all of them) and those represent the 5 percent that Axl gave him.

None of which alters the fact that Stradlin wrote Double Talkin' Jive.

[Modano09]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

If it is solely a business and a brand name you are correct. If it is a band and there is just semblance of romance or creativity about the whole thing you are incorrect. Sadly you are correct.

But isn't there blame on Izzy for treating it like a business? He knows he sold his share, he knows they paid him, why does he think he should be able to profit from selling and owning at the same time?

[Tonto]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

None of which alters the fact that Stradlin wrote Double Talkin' Jive.

He wasn't the sole writer on the song. If he was why is he sharing his writing royalties with Duff, Slash and Axl?

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, Tonto said:

He wasn't the sole writer on the song. If he was why is he sharing his writing royalties with Duff, Slash and Axl?

That is a business agreement like Lennon-McCartney. The actual writer(s) are those that are listed in the booklet, and we have supporting interview evidence.

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, Modano09 said:

But isn't there blame on Izzy for treating it like a business? He knows he sold his share, he knows they paid him, why does he think he should be able to profit from selling and owning at the same time?

Well yes, and it being now solely a business and no longer a musical band we may as well argue about it in terms of profits, shares, stakeholding and ownership now. It is not as there is a new album to discuss, is there? Personally I'm glad Stradlin is not there so his name will not be associated with the awful string of endorsements and merchandising we have just seen, but he made his objections solely about money also so they are all just greedy buggers at the end of the day.

Probably the only one who would have played for the simple act of playing is Adler.

 

[StrangerInThisTown]

6 hours ago, Tonto said:

Steven Adler has the credits on ASCAP that axl gave him, the extra 5 percent he demanded. All guns n roses booklets have errors, all of them, but the listing isn't an error. For the songs that came in pretty much fully formed that guy got the credit in the booklet, but the official credits, i.e. where the money goes, is on ASCAP. Deny it all you want but you know it's true. Point is what? The current line up have every right to play that song since they (axl, slash and duff) all played on it and all have writing credits on it. These are facts. End of. I'm surprised so many have issue with this, they accuse Axl, Slash and Duff of cash grabbing and think they wouldn't have the system that assigns them their roylaty checks correct? Where's the logic?

DieselDaisy is absolutely correct. And as you have just said yourself, Adler is listed on ASCAP even though HE DID NOT WRITE. Therefore rendering your entire "but ASCAP lists.." argument useless since what it represents is NOT who actually wrote what since it is infused with all this legal shit. Look at all the other things I and others have noted several times for "the facts" you want to talk about, lol. You are arguing against so much evidence, facts, straight up band members saying the opposite, album credits, interviews etc and have just vaporized your own argument. "Wheres the logic?" indeed.

Edited August 30, 2017 by StrangerInThisTown

[StrangerInThisTown]

7 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Izzy has referred to the contract that would cut his royalties' percentage as one of the reasons he left, not as the one and only reason.

What Axl said in 1992 wasn't in context of a reasoning for him not wanting Izzy in the band, but of an argument about Izzy allegedly being unwilling to deal with the "demands" of the mega-band GnR had become. There are similar allegations in Slash's interviews from 1992-1994.

I know this, I did not claim that was the sole reason, but it was his last reason. "The last straw" or how he put it right? And yes I am also aware Axl didnt want Izzy to leave the band, just like with Slash and Duff. And I personally wouldn't trust anything Slash said during the UYI era because he was fucked up 24/7, he said he never enjoyed playing with Izzy and that he found his playing style confusing in 1993, that should tell you all. Atleast Axl was sober and thinking straight. I mentioned that quote because that was what made him want to demote Izzy. It is no surprise he sees the blame in Izzy for quitting.

Edited August 30, 2017 by StrangerInThisTown

[DieselDaisy]

Stradlin has given about five hundred reasons why he left; the stage delays and ensuing riots; Slash and Duff's substance abuse; some sort of Rosey business related Machiavellian power grab; the pompous music videos - those are just some of the reasons given.

[StrangerInThisTown]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Stradlin has given about five hundred reasons why he left; the stage delays and ensuing riots; Slash and Duff's substance abuse; some sort of Rosey business related Machiavellian power grab; the pompous music videos - those are just some of the reasons given.

The music videos are the only legit argument Axl can make refering to the "demands of a mega band" that Izzy didn't want to deal with. All the other reasons were mostly Axl induced like the riots, power hungry, firing Alan Niven, or, to give the guy a break, out of Axls control, like Slash Duff Matt always partying, being fucked up and him wanting to stay sober. Hilariously that always gets turned into "he doesn't like touring", which people still use as an argument to this day, even though he even straight up said in an interview he's fine with touring and that it was all this other shit that was giving him trouble at the time.

Edited August 30, 2017 by StrangerInThisTown

[Lio]

5 hours ago, RONIN said:

Do your research my man. Plenty of resources online where you can find the answers to your questions. Axl didn't earn his reputation of being the king of all douchebags overnight. There are some very good reasons why his own fans are divided about him. 

 

As far as I know, Izzy said they didn't want to split the loot equally. That is all anyone involved in the talks has said. Then it was rumoured that Duff had said 'no way he gets a 6 figure payment' or something like that. But that was hearsay. I don't think I have to do my research.

Izzy named a number of reasons why he left and sold his part in GNR. It gets translated as Axl thought he was just the rhythm guitarist while he sang his ass off. Right.

It's funny how everything is all black and white for some. I'm sure that's easier to grasp.

32 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

The music videos are the only legit argument Axl can make refering to the "demands of a mega band" that Izzy didn't want to deal with. All the other reasons were mostly Axl induced like the riots, power hungry, firing Alan Niven, or, to give the guy a break, out of Axls control, like Slash Duff Matt always partying, being fucked up and him wanting to stay sober. Hilariously that always gets turned into "he doesn't like touring", which people still use as an argument to this day, even though he even straight up said in an interview he's fine with touring and that it was all this other shit that was giving him trouble at the time.

Izzy's fine with touring. That's why he does it all the time, right? He just loves it.

[StrangerInThisTown]

13 minutes ago, Lio said:

 

He has a small band with guys no one knows, releasing music no one knows. No label, no promotion, not even physical discs. What's he gonna do tour clubs to play to 12 people? Sorry this argument is nonsense

And besides that, being fine with something doesnt mean that you like it and want to. Means it's no problem for you if you have to. And GNR have to, Izzy solo albums dont need to be toured especially if hes only sending a copy of it to itunes and doesnt give a rats ass about sales.

Edited August 30, 2017 by StrangerInThisTown

[ludurigan]

12 hours ago, Modano09 said:

The point is, whether it's legal (Izzy was bought out) or principal (Izzy wanted nothing to do with managing the brand for 25 years), he doesn't have the claim to "equal loot" that Slash and Duff do.

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that. This is very precious information specially coming from someone like you that up to 2 minutes ago didnt have a clue about Izzy's contribution to GNR to the fact that you were writing that izzy didnt write any GNR hits

You are being informed on this forum for months now about how crucial was Izzy role in GNR 1985-1991. But you sistematically choose to ignore that information and all you can talk about is "managing the brand for 25 years" 1991-2016.

so yeah, be free to believe whatever you want and be free to deny izzy role all you want

 

[Blackstar]

12 hours ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

I know this, I did not claim that was the sole reason, but it was his last reason. "The last straw" or how he put it right? And yes I am also aware Axl didnt want Izzy to leave the band, just like with Slash and Duff. And I personally wouldn't trust anything Slash said during the UYI era because he was fucked up 24/7, he said he never enjoyed playing with Izzy and that he found his playing style confusing in 1993, that should tell you all. Atleast Axl was sober and thinking straight. I mentioned that quote because that was what made him want to demote Izzy. It is no surprise he sees the blame in Izzy for quitting.

11 hours ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

The music videos are the only legit argument Axl can make refering to the "demands of a mega band" that Izzy didn't want to deal with. All the other reasons were mostly Axl induced like the riots, power hungry, firing Alan Niven, or, to give the guy a break, out of Axls control, like Slash Duff Matt always partying, being fucked up and him wanting to stay sober. Hilariously that always gets turned into "he doesn't like touring", which people still use as an argument to this day, even though he even straight up said in an interview he's fine with touring and that it was all this other shit that was giving him trouble at the time.

Apart from the videos, Axl also said that Izzy "didn't want to work" on the UYI albums and he'd do just one take. Slash said similar things to that. Yeah, maybe we shouldn't trust what Slash said during the UYI tour, but then we shouldn't trust his memory from that era either (apart from objective facts, like Axl's lateness, and things confirmed by other sources); and that interview in which he said he didn't enjoy playing with Izzy was after the tour (but we could attribute it to him being pissed off at Izzy because of what happened at the 1993 shows). But he said some things too in 1994 and also in 1995 (when he was angry at Axl) about Izzy and the recording of the UYI albums; in one 1995 interview, while talking about Izzy's brief return in that year, he said Izzy didn't want to tour.

In general, we have to take into consideration the time when things were said;. Axl was angry at Izzy; Slash was angry at Izzy when he said he never liked playing with him etc; even Izzy was bitter in his 2001 interviews (when he referred to the contract issue for the first time) because Axl didn't come at the door when he went to his house. Of course that doesn't make the core of those statements necessarily untrue; Izzy, for example, wouldn't have a reason to lie about the contract, but the fact he hadn't mentioned it in 1992-93 (when he was talking about why he had left) maybe means that he didn't consider it the most important reason then, most likely because it was a move Axl made (which he couldn't have done, at least technically, without having Slash's and Duff's votes too) and then took back.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Blackstar

[Modano09]

3 hours ago, ludurigan said:

Thanks for clarifying that. This is very precious information specially coming from someone like you that up to 2 minutes ago didnt have a clue about Izzy's contribution to GNR to the fact that you were writing that izzy didnt write any GNR hits

You are being informed on this forum for months now about how crucial was Izzy role in GNR 1985-1991. But you sistematically choose to ignore that information and all you can talk about is "managing the brand for 25 years" 1991-2016.

so yeah, be free to believe whatever you want and be free to deny izzy role all you want

 

Nobody denies Izzy's contributions! But he wasn't writing all the hits by himself while Axl and Slash sat around with their thumbs up their asses either. And regardless, Izzy's not there (by his choice) and they're in the midst of a highly success, lucrative tour so at the very least Izzy's not crucial in 2017.

[Tonto]

11 hours ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

DieselDaisy is absolutely correct. And as you have just said yourself, Adler is listed on ASCAP even though HE DID NOT WRITE. Therefore rendering your entire "but ASCAP lists.." argument useless since what it represents is NOT who actually wrote what since it is infused with all this legal shit. Look at all the other things I and others have noted several times for "the facts" you want to talk about, lol. You are arguing against so much evidence, facts, straight up band members saying the opposite, album credits, interviews etc and have just vaporized your own argument. "Wheres the logic?" indeed.

 

What "legal shit"? It's business, the people who write the songs get the money for the songs they wrote. Steven being listed doesn't contradict anything as we know what happened with Steven, he demanded more royalties so he was given writing credits for songs he didn't write. He is the exception not the rule. Think before you post.

 

What is the reason for izzy doing this? The others all did the same with him as Steven did with axl? Then the others all did the same with axl with November rain? Open your eyes. 

 

If the booklets are so perfect why is he listed as lead guitar for DTJ in early illusion pressings and not in later pressings? They aren't always correct. None of them are in fact.

 

It's the same thing over and over here, inflating your guy to make yourself feel justified with the hate you spew about the others. All because you don't get to see the line up you want to see.

 

I'm not taking anything away from Izzy, this is being discussed as @double talkin jive mfkr said it was insulting for them to play the song as it was Izzy's song and he was the sole writer. It's a guns n roses song and izzy was not the sole writer. Like pretty much all GNR songs! They all had a hand in it. @double talkin jive mfkr should get an award for most moronic statement of the month or at least a dummy to suck on.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

45 minutes ago, Tonto said:

 

What "legal shit"? It's business, the people who write the songs get the money for the songs they wrote. Steven being listed doesn't contradict anything as we know what happened with Steven, he demanded more royalties so he was given writing credits for songs he didn't write. He is the exception not the rule. Think before you post.

 

What is the reason for izzy doing this? The others all did the same with him as Steven did with axl? Then the others all did the same with axl with November rain? Open your eyes. 

 

If the booklets are so perfect why is he listed as lead guitar for DTJ in early illusion pressings and not in later pressings? They aren't always correct. None of them are in fact.

 

It's the same thing over and over here, inflating your guy to make yourself feel justified with the hate you spew about the others. All because you don't get to see the line up you want to see.

 

I'm not taking anything away from Izzy, this is being discussed as @double talkin jive mfkr said it was insulting for them to play the song as it was Izzy's song and he was the sole writer. It's a guns n roses song and izzy was not the sole writer. Like pretty much all GNR songs! They all had a hand in it. @double talkin jive mfkr should get an award for most moronic statement of the month or at least a dummy to suck on.

yeah you don't biased at all buddy 

DTJM : IZZY SOLE WRITER 

NITL: INTRODUCE 2 NEW SONGS 1 of which is from izzy that my friend is touché just like you're bewildering ASCAP spew which was Axl dividing the royalties which is seperate from writing my sophisticated man. 

 

izzy sole writer of DTJM 

sole member of GNR with all dignity in tact 

you my friend have your head so far up the asshole of Axl that I suspect that it really IS!!! 

 

[Tonto]

3 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

yeah you don't biased at all buddy 

DTJM : IZZY SOLE WRITER 

NITL: INTRODUCE 2 NEW SONGS 1 of which is from izzy that my friend is touché just like you're bewildering ASCAP spew which was Axl dividing the royalties which is seperate from writing my sophisticated man. 

 

izzy sole writer of DTJM 

sole member of GNR with all dignity in tact 

you my friend have your head so far up the asshole of Axl that I suspect that it really IS!!! 

 

Izzy isn't a member of GN'R. Izzy is not the sole writer of DTJ.

Integrity? Hahaha! Who gives a fuck about that? I'm in it for the music and live shows not to ice Izzy's balls backstage at the famers market. You must be a soap opera fan. 

You really are a silly person, I mean, really, really, silly. This is what matters to you? hahah, okay buddy, boy.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

buddy im sure this matters to you more because you called me out on it in the thread without me really engaging with you 

second - im positive there are many others who agree with me and know what the true GNR era means and is 

you seem to worship the business and brand side of this which if you want to talk about the brand side - well it never reinvinted itself since izzy's departure unfortunately and they are riding on his coat tails cause he respectfully resigned from the circus that was to become 

now if money rules all - then yes GNR and the name represents money so horray to money - everyone likes money - so it probably stings to a lot of the fans that were there during the heyday and although you cannot delete his history you really sound like you'd like to if you could that hombre is pathetic and resembles a child denying he stole from the cookie jar 

its atrocious that with the money being made that they would reintroduce DTJM to the mix without having a way to make it work with yes the sole songwriter  

Edited August 30, 2017 by double talkin jive mfkr

[xBrownstonex]

10 minutes ago, Tonto said:

Izzy isn't a member of GN'R. Izzy is not the sole writer of DTJ.

Integrity? Hahaha! Who gives a fuck about that? I'm in it for the music and live shows not to ice Izzy's balls backstage at the famers market. You must be a soap opera fan. 

You really are a silly person, I mean, really, really, silly. This is what matters to you? hahah, okay buddy, boy.

You'll soon come to learn that discussing with certain people is just a waste of energy.

Edited August 30, 2017 by xBrownstonex

[NicDwolfwood]

Fuck It, Im an idiot for jumping into this tired ass debate, but im bored.

 

I'll start this off by saying I hold no particular allegiance to any said band member of GNR, contrary to the image of the Slash skull. I love Guns N Roses, not specific band members, I appreciate what they all have contributed into making what this band is today, except for Nu GNR which I dont give a shit about. What follows is simply my take on things. 

 

I can understand why so many are so fiercely loyal and love Izzy and his contributions to GNR. They're of great importance, and the band wouldnt have been what it was without him. But the reality is that the dude fucked up. Yes, he was correct in choosing his health and piece of mind instead of dealing with egomaniacal lead singer and addict band members. But everything we do in this life has consequences for better or worse. He made choices that have impacted him in the long run. 

example 1. If known information is correct, Izzy recorded nothing more than Scratch takes on Illusions, and then split. The result of that was Slash going over and overdubbing Rhythm tracks over his scratch tracks where him Axl, and im assuming Duff didnt feel they were up to snuff. 

example 2. He refused to feature in any of the videos that they recorded before he left the band. That would be Dont Cry and You Could Be Mine. his bandmates obviously resented him for that, and later on that came to bite him in the ass,  as that along with not "moving around enough on stage", plus his guitar tracks on the Illusions all resulted in that demotion contract that Axl tried to push on him. Fair or not, that is for everyone to decided. while I think that was a Slap in the face to him, I can also see what Axl,  Duff and Slash felt about it as well. as everyone has mentioned they had to have been in the known about it and agreed to pushing said contract to Izzy. 

example 3. Then in 93, when Gilby breaks his hand, Izzy gets the call and he comes back and plays a couple a shows to get back some money he was owed. Fair enough. As soon as that was over, he split again. His bandmates didnt like how the situation went down, Slash mentioned how he couldnt even get Izzy to rehearse, and that he had forgotten his parts, blah blah blah, most of ya'll have heard this story before I can assume. 

example 4. Wanting to make sure his finances arent impacted by his bandmates while they're out on the road playing shows 2-3 hours late, causing riots and shit like that, he cuts a deal to get a piece of the pie and exit said partnership when it expired in 96. 

 

So if all the above rambling is taken into consideration Izzy hasnt  toured much, if at all since the end of 92 when he fled from his own band( with the exception being a very brief japan run he did with Duff and Loaded in 98 or 99, the couple of weeks he did with GNR in 06 and the other couple sporadic appearances since then) then Its no surprise that Axl, Slash and Duff lowballed him and or offered him a very small role in this whole thing. Which is fucked up if taken at face value, with what little we all know. But the truth is we dont know. Which is why I dont really understand either extreme of the arguments (Izzy cant play/Not important vs the A/S/D are greedy, asshole backstabbers) The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Everyone's hands are dirty as far as im concerned. Im more than sure that even Slash and Duff have agreed to shit they dont particularly like because they wanted back in to something they helped make as big as it is. I cant begrudge them for that. For as much as they may have downplayed it in the past, Im more than sure that the band meant alot to them and it pained them to have to leave it behind. Maybe if Izzy was willing to bend some on certain things in the past (music videos/ recording of the Illusions where Axl and the rest were satisfied) he may still be there right now. 

 

Its a shame that they are now 50+ years of age and they cant simply wipe the slate clean, and have a fresh start and go out on top together like they started. but fucking hell, every mind thinks differently, so what makes sense to me probably wont to someone else. Really, my only problem with everything has been the fucking designer clothing line and all that useless shit they're selling for rape prices, but the the show I saw last year in LA was great, I had a good time, no complaints on that front. whether we get anything like music or old shit from the vault that'll be up to them. It'll be a sad thing if they call it quits and dont release any of that, sure. But life goes on.

 

Also, that idea or opinion that A/S/D cant/shouldnt be playing Patience or DTJ because Izzy wrote them is  stupid as fuck. Last time I checked those were songs recorded under the name Guns N Roses and are on Guns N Roses albums. so fair game on those no matter what. He may have brought in lyrics and complete guitar parts, but they were recorded in collaboration with the rest of the band.

 

 

[Tonto]

4 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

buddy im sure this matters to you more because you called me out on it in the thread without me really engaging with you 

second - im positive there are many others who agree with me and know what the true GNR era means and is 

you seem to worship the business and brand side of this which if you want to talk about the brand side - well it never reinvinted itself since izzy's departure unfortunately and they are riding on his coat tails cause he respectfully resigned from the circus that was to become 

now if money rules all - then yes GNR and the name represents money so horray to money - everyone likes money - so it probably stings to a lot of the fans that were there during the heyday and although you cannot delete his history you really sound like you'd like to if you could that hombre is pathetic and resembles a child denying he stole from the cookie jar 

its atrocious that with the money being made that they would reintroduce DTJM to the mix without having a way to make it work with yes the sole songwriter  

Izzy's integrity doesn't matter to me, that's the sentence you are replying to, why would it matter to me? I don't know Izzy, I don't care if he has integrity or not. He's not a friend or family member, doesn't affect me one way or another (seems to bother you some though). You spreading muck and misinforming people matters to me, hence why I replied to you. Keep up, mate, you'll never get a job on the farm with this kind of performance.

The band is the band; business, brand, etc, it's one thing. There isn't multiple versions of guns n roses out there, there is one guns n roses. Not guns n roses the band, guns n roses the business, guns n roses the brand. It's one thing, you certainly seem to have a lot of interest in the business side of things with all of the negative shit you post about management. Pot meet kettle.

Why would I like to delete his history? Never said anything of the sort, you're resorting to straw men arguments again, that's what happens when you're emotionally involved and don't know what you're talking about. Why would you want to delete the rest of the bands history? You do know they played a big part in that song, right? You act as if Izzy just threw a solo song on the album and the others didn't even play on it.

It's atrocious that guns n roses are playing a guns n roses song on the tour? You really do make me laugh. They did try to make it work, they tried to get him on board, he turned them down. They can and should play what they want.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Tonto

[double talkin jive mfkr]

3 minutes ago, Tonto said:

Izzy's integrity doesn't matter to me, that's the sentence you are replying to, why would it matter to me? I don't know Izzy, I don't care if he has integrity or not. He's not a friend or family member, doesn't affect me one way or another (seems to bother you some though). You spending muck and misinforming people matters to me, hence why I replied to you. Keep up, mate, you'll never get a job on the farm with this kind of performance.

The band is the band; business, brand, etc, it's one thing. There isn't multiple versions of guns n roses out there, there is one guns n roses. Not guns n roses the band, guns n roses the business, guns n roses the brand. It's one thing, you certainly seem to have a lot of interest in the business side of things with all of the negative shit you post about management. Pot meet kettle.

Why would I like to delete his history? Never said anything of the sort, you're resorting to straw men arguments again, that's what happens when you're emotionally involved and don't know what you're talking about. Why would you want to delete the rest of the bands history? You do know they played a big part in that song, right? You act as if Izzy just threw a solo song on the album and the others didn't even play on it.

It's atrocious that guns n roses are playing a guns n roses song on the tour? You really do make me laugh. They did try to make it work, they tried to get him on board, he turned them down. They can and should play what they want.

yes they can and should but the ruthlessness of it all appears to be more gutless - they haven't created anything new them 3 together since the illusions that is nerving in itself  considering the absence of izzy is the main reason why - look at the hypocrisy of duff changing his tune as soon as it was all going in that direction - guaranteed him and izzy anin't so tight no more 

Edited August 31, 2017 by double talkin jive mfkr

[Tonto]

13 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

yes they can and should but the ruthlessness of it all appears to be more gutless - they haven't created anything new them 3 together since the illusions that is nerving in itself  considering the absence of izzy is the main reason why - look at the hypocrisy of duff changing his tune as soon as it was all going in that direction - guaranteed him and izzy anin't so tight no more 

They haven't created anything new since the illusions? What a stupid statement! They haven't been in the same band since 96 until very recently! Even Izzy who returned to write with the band couldn't get it done, so your point is moot, unless you want to edit your statement and include Izzy in it? You would do if YOU had any integrity.

Duff was pissed off at Izzy for demanding an equal share, it leaked out somewhere that he was very mad that a guy who quit and sold his shares thought he could waltz back in as full member with the same benefits as the rest. He called him a "fucker" . Not going to happen, nothing ruthless about it, he doesn't deserve an equal share, he sold up.

If Izzy returned to the band as a full member under the same terms that he was offered before the reunion you would feel a bit stupid, right? All that integrity nonsense would be down the toilet, but you'd flip flop and twist it around, as you are emotionally invested in this. You can't stand that he's not in the lineup so you look for boogey men and inflate his importance. Axl is a far better singer/songwriter than Izzy and Slash is a far better guitarist, there's a reason they are the big draw and he's not.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Tonto

[Modano09]

1 hour ago, NicDwolfwood said:

Fuck It, Im an idiot for jumping into this tired ass debate, but im bored.

 

I'll start this off by saying I hold no particular allegiance to any said band member of GNR, contrary to the image of the Slash skull. I love Guns N Roses, not specific band members, I appreciate what they all have contributed into making what this band is today, except for Nu GNR which I dont give a shit about. What follows is simply my take on things. 

 

I can understand why so many are so fiercely loyal and love Izzy and his contributions to GNR. They're of great importance, and the band wouldnt have been what it was without him. But the reality is that the dude fucked up. Yes, he was correct in choosing his health and piece of mind instead of dealing with egomaniacal lead singer and addict band members. But everything we do in this life has consequences for better or worse. He made choices that have impacted him in the long run. 

example 1. If known information is correct, Izzy recorded nothing more than Scratch takes on Illusions, and then split. The result of that was Slash going over and overdubbing Rhythm tracks over his scratch tracks where him Axl, and im assuming Duff didnt feel they were up to snuff. 

example 2. He refused to feature in any of the videos that they recorded before he left the band. That would be Dont Cry and You Could Be Mine. his bandmates obviously resented him for that, and later on that came to bite him in the ass,  as that along with not "moving around enough on stage", plus his guitar tracks on the Illusions all resulted in that demotion contract that Axl tried to push on him. Fair or not, that is for everyone to decided. while I think that was a Slap in the face to him, I can also see what Axl,  Duff and Slash felt about it as well. as everyone has mentioned they had to have been in the known about it and agreed to pushing said contract to Izzy. 

example 3. Then in 93, when Gilby breaks his hand, Izzy gets the call and he comes back and plays a couple a shows to get back some money he was owed. Fair enough. As soon as that was over, he split again. His bandmates didnt like how the situation went down, Slash mentioned how he couldnt even get Izzy to rehearse, and that he had forgotten his parts, blah blah blah, most of ya'll have heard this story before I can assume. 

example 4. Wanting to make sure his finances arent impacted by his bandmates while they're out on the road playing shows 2-3 hours late, causing riots and shit like that, he cuts a deal to get a piece of the pie and exit said partnership when it expired in 96. 

 

So if all the above rambling is taken into consideration Izzy hasnt  toured much, if at all since the end of 92 when he fled from his own band( with the exception being a very brief japan run he did with Duff and Loaded in 98 or 99, the couple of weeks he did with GNR in 06 and the other couple sporadic appearances since then) then Its no surprise that Axl, Slash and Duff lowballed him and or offered him a very small role in this whole thing. Which is fucked up if taken at face value, with what little we all know. But the truth is we dont know. Which is why I dont really understand either extreme of the arguments (Izzy cant play/Not important vs the A/S/D are greedy, asshole backstabbers) The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Everyone's hands are dirty as far as im concerned. Im more than sure that even Slash and Duff have agreed to shit they dont particularly like because they wanted back in to something they helped make as big as it is. I cant begrudge them for that. For as much as they may have downplayed it in the past, Im more than sure that the band meant alot to them and it pained them to have to leave it behind. Maybe if Izzy was willing to bend some on certain things in the past (music videos/ recording of the Illusions where Axl and the rest were satisfied) he may still be there right now. 

 

Its a shame that they are now 50+ years of age and they cant simply wipe the slate clean, and have a fresh start and go out on top together like they started. but fucking hell, every mind thinks differently, so what makes sense to me probably wont to someone else. Really, my only problem with everything has been the fucking designer clothing line and all that useless shit they're selling for rape prices, but the the show I saw last year in LA was great, I had a good time, no complaints on that front. whether we get anything like music or old shit from the vault that'll be up to them. It'll be a sad thing if they call it quits and dont release any of that, sure. But life goes on.

 

Also, that idea or opinion that A/S/D cant/shouldnt be playing Patience or DTJ because Izzy wrote them is  stupid as fuck. Last time I checked those were songs recorded under the name Guns N Roses and are on Guns N Roses albums. so fair game on those no matter what. He may have brought in lyrics and complete guitar parts, but they were recorded in collaboration with the rest of the band.

 

 

I'd like to add that Izzy selling his shares and being bought out is a majorly significant factor that a lot of people are just dismissing as unimportant. He sold his shares, was paid by Axl/Slash/Duff for them, and washed his hands of it all. Over the last 25 years, Axl/Slash/Duff managed the brand, representing the band against lawsuits, representing themselves against in each other in lawsuits involving the band, negotiating with each other one what logos can be used or what songs will be on compilation albums or if live DVDs can be released, or if songs can be licensed out, etc. And then they went through the process if mending relationships and eventually putting together a major, lucrative, two year tour. Meanwhile, Izzy had nothing to do with any of it. Why would Izzy be entitled to "equal loot" ?  I assume when he was demanding the same money as the guys who actually own the band he wasn't offering to give that money they paid him for his shares back.