Medication and children

[Len Cnut]

I think there's a sort of weird generational pride thing going on in this thread.

It sounds very correct to denounce the increased medication of kids in the last 15 years, and feels satisfying to do so, like, "back in my day we didn't need meds, so why should they?" and all that, but there is really not conclusive evidence stating that the net effect of the increased medication of kids recently is negative. Like most things, this isn't black and white, and for every kid that is wrongly prescribed adderall or xanax or prozac or whatever, there's at least one kid whose life is so much better as a result of these drugs' existence. And I don't say that just thinking of kids who can now study better with Adderall, I'm thinking more about kids who would be downright miserable and suicidal without their antidepressants.

I think it's very cocky and disrespectful the way you guys discuss this topic. There's truth in it but you really can't just lump all medicated-child cases together and call it bad parenting.

Bollocks. If you give a child anything like a fuckin' sedative and they ain't psychotic then you're a fuckin' cunt and you need to have a word with yourself. A 'sedative', think about that, to a fuckin' child, are you having a fuckin' laugh? This has been like, normalised a bit by the fact that its the medical profession doing it so you have certain ideas about the medical profession but fuck me, i think it'd a load of fuckin' bollocks.

Suicidal? You what? Fuck off. I mean that, fuck off. You're a kid and you're a suicidal? You don't know whats its all about yet you dozy little twat, what the fuck are you suicidal about if you're fuckin' 13/14, you want a fuckin' slap is what you want, suicidal, about what, you ain't fuckin' done nothing in your life yet! It's a load of fuckin' shit and it's like big blankie attitude that fuckin' proliferates and encourages it, all these kids grow up and they hear this bollocks like 'oh y'know it makes peoples quality of life better and those are just old peoples being smug and arrogant about their generation', these kids grow up believing that shit, like thats a real thing, to be 11 and be suicidal 'im just not happy and everybodys not my friend and i'm different and i feel suicidal', shut up you fuckin' twat, it's called puberty, we all had it, hormones.

Honestly, it makes you fuckin' sick, these fuckin' priveliged little kids and their well off Mummies and Daddys bangin' on about how lifes coming down on em like a ton of bricks, oh shut the fuck up with the bullshit, everybody get a fuckin' concerto going now for the poor middle class kids and their 'problems'.

LITERALLY the only problem is morbid self attention, thats it, thats the only fuckin' problem, too much fuckin' time at too young an age sitting around thinking about bollocks, too much sitting around whining going 'i'm bored, there's nothing to dooooo'.

And y'know what, it ain't a generation thing and it ain't a fuckin' age thing, it's a pussy thing. To be blunt about it, they're just basically a bunch of fuckin' mincers. I know a kid, proper little, like 12 now but I've known him all his life, he lives right in the centre of town with his Mum and his whole life growing up and I've seen him going in this shop or the other, or coming home from school with his mates so just when i was chatting with his Mum, the kid is SOOOO sharp and it literally comes just from being out and about, talking to everybody up and down the street, chatting to grown ups outside his age range and he's like...sharp as anything, he goes football on sundays, you can't liike....get ahead of him in the verbals, he's lovely. And there's tonsa kids like him, go down your local pikey campsite and see how much whining their kids do.

It's a cultural thing, it's about how you raise kids and it's fuck all to do with age or any of that stuff. And like, you can say what you like about old Grandad having a rant but y'know what, i don't give a fuck. And i don't mean about your saying it i mean about 'the kids'. I'll finishing typing this and get on with my life, it's no skin off my nose, i think it's wrong but if you wanna pump drugs up kids arses go on then, ain't really gonna make no difference to me if your kids grow up as fuckin' mongs.

The way i see life is i got another fuckin' 40 odd years and thats my shift done, my point is in the final reckoning for me it's just opining, the ones i feel sorry for are the ones who have to deal with that shit and if you're OK with that idea, as a parent or a potential parent then hey, who am i to stop you. Alls it really makes me think is that Darwin might need to adjust that main theory a bit cuz it don't always follow

Edited March 3, 2015 by Len B'stard

[DR DOOM]

I love you Len B'stard.

[Dazey]

I think there's a sort of weird generational pride thing going on in this thread.

It sounds very correct to denounce the increased medication of kids in the last 15 years, and feels satisfying to do so, like, "back in my day we didn't need meds, so why should they?" and all that, but there is really not conclusive evidence stating that the net effect of the increased medication of kids recently is negative. Like most things, this isn't black and white, and for every kid that is wrongly prescribed adderall or xanax or prozac or whatever, there's at least one kid whose life is so much better as a result of these drugs' existence. And I don't say that just thinking of kids who can now study better with Adderall, I'm thinking more about kids who would be downright miserable and suicidal without their antidepressants.

I think it's very cocky and disrespectful the way you guys discuss this topic. There's truth in it but you really can't just lump all medicated-child cases together and call it bad parenting.

Bollocks. If you give a child anything like a fuckin' sedative and they ain't psychotic then you're a fuckin' cunt and you need to have a word with yourself. A 'sedative', think about that, to a fuckin' child, are you having a fuckin' laugh? This has been like, normalised a bit by the fact that its the medical profession doing it so you have certain ideas about the medical profession but fuck me, i think it'd a load of fuckin' bollocks.

Suicidal? You what? Fuck off. I mean that, fuck off. You're a kid and you're a suicidal? You don't know whats its all about yet you dozy little twat, what the fuck are you suicidal about if you're fuckin' 13/14, you want a fuckin' slap is what you want, suicidal, about what, you ain't fuckin' done nothing in your life yet! It's a load of fuckin' shit and it's like big blankie attitude that fuckin' proliferates and encourages it, all these kids grow up and they hear this bollocks like 'oh y'know it makes peoples quality of life better and those are just old peoples being smug and arrogant about their generation', these kids grow up believing that shit, like thats a real thing, to be 11 and be suicidal 'im just not happy and everybodys not my friend and i'm different and i feel suicidal', shut up you fuckin' twat, it's called puberty, we all had it, hormones.

Honestly, it makes you fuckin' sick, these fuckin' priveliged little kids and their well off Mummies and Daddys bangin' on about how lifes coming down on em like a ton of bricks, oh shut the fuck up with the bullshit, everybody get a fuckin' concerto going now for the poor middle class kids and their 'problems'.

LITERALLY the only problem is morbid self attention, thats it, thats the only fuckin' problem, too much fuckin' time at too young an age sitting around thinking about bollocks, too much sitting around whining going 'i'm bored, there's nothing to dooooo'.

And y'know what, it ain't a generation thing and it ain't a fuckin' age thing, it's a pussy thing. To be blunt about it, they're just basically a bunch of fuckin' mincers. I know a kid, proper little, like 12 now but I've known him all his life, he lives right in the centre of town with his Mum and his whole life growing up and I've seen him going in this shop or the other, or coming home from school with his mates so just when i was chatting with his Mum, the kid is SOOOO sharp and it literally comes just from being out and about, talking to everybody up and down the street, chatting to grown ups outside his age range and he's like...sharp as anything, he goes football on sundays, you can't liike....get ahead of him in the verbals, he's lovely. And there's tonsa kids like him, go down your local pikey campsite and see how much whining their kids do.

It's a cultural thing, it's about how you raise kids and it's fuck all to do with age or any of that stuff. And like, you can say what you like about old Grandad having a rant but y'know what, i don't give a fuck. And i don't mean about your saying it i mean about 'the kids'. I'll finishing typing this and get on with my life, it's no skin off my nose, i think it's wrong but if you wanna pump drugs up kids arses go on then, ain't really gonna make no difference to me if your kids grow up as fuckin' mongs.

The way i see life is i got another fuckin' 40 odd years and thats my shift done, my point is in the final reckoning for me it's just opining, the ones i feel sorry for are the ones who have to deal with that shit and if you're OK with that idea, as a parent or a potential parent then hey, who am i to stop you. Alls it really makes me think is that Darwin might need to adjust that main theory a bit cuz it don't always follow

Thing is its not even a sedative. Ritalin's a fuckin' stimulant. It's basically kiddy speed.

[Len Cnut]

To be fair to Jakey Styley ( i love that name! Flex wicked...styleyyyyyy ) he's got a point about the smug and high and mighty attitude aspect though because like, if you think about it, who here is REALLY old enough to remember pre-Ritalin type era? I mean that shit pretty much kicked off in the late 80s right, medicating kids and that? It's 2015 now, so he's got a fair point, who the fucks even old enough around here to fuckin' really be of a position to be able to say 'gosh, kids these days and their medicating'.

[Dazey]

To be fair to Jakey Styley ( i love that name! Flex wicked...styleyyyyyy ) he's got a point about the smug and high and mighty attitude aspect though because like, if you think about it, who here is REALLY old enough to remember pre-Ritalin type era? I mean that shit pretty much kicked off in the late 80s right, medicating kids and that? It's 2015 now, so he's got a fair point, who the fucks even old enough around here to fuckin' really be of a position to be able to say 'gosh, kids these days and their medicating'.

*raises hand*

[Len Cnut]

To be fair to Jakey Styley ( i love that name! Flex wicked...styleyyyyyy ) he's got a point about the smug and high and mighty attitude aspect though because like, if you think about it, who here is REALLY old enough to remember pre-Ritalin type era? I mean that shit pretty much kicked off in the late 80s right, medicating kids and that? It's 2015 now, so he's got a fair point, who the fucks even old enough around here to fuckin' really be of a position to be able to say 'gosh, kids these days and their medicating'.

*raises hand*

Thats bollocks, you're only 4 years older than me y'know, honestly, you don't half give it with the elder statesman bit, have you looked in the mirror lately, you look like Tommy the Rugrat you cunt Ritalin and that, thats a fuckin' 90s phenomenon, that smack-bang within your range, you were in your early teens when it all kicked off. 79 to 83, stop tryna fuckin' make me feel little 'In my day in the 80s', what do you honestly remember about the 80s anyway, by the time you stopped shitting your pants they was over In fact, you've let a few slip since as well haven't you?

Edited March 3, 2015 by Len B'stard

[DR DOOM]

I had 2 friends in high school that were prescribed either dexies or Ritalin, they would trade them off for weed or cigarettes.

They bullshittted their way through the tests too, they used to egg me on to go and get it, "you'll get it no problem-just act all hyper and shit!"

They were just little shits, that's all.

Obviously that's not the case all the time, but I'm 100% convinced that shit is being over prescribed.

[Lio]

To be fair to Jakey Styley ( i love that name! Flex wicked...styleyyyyyy ) he's got a point about the smug and high and mighty attitude aspect though because like, if you think about it, who here is REALLY old enough to remember pre-Ritalin type era? I mean that shit pretty much kicked off in the late 80s right, medicating kids and that? It's 2015 now, so he's got a fair point, who the fucks even old enough around here to fuckin' really be of a position to be able to say 'gosh, kids these days and their medicating'.

*raises hand*

+1

Never had anyone in my class who took ritalin. As I said, there probably were kids with ADD or whatever. They were just 'difficult pupils' who couldn't sit still, couldn't concentrate...

[Len Cnut]

To be fair to Jakey Styley ( i love that name! Flex wicked...styleyyyyyy ) he's got a point about the smug and high and mighty attitude aspect though because like, if you think about it, who here is REALLY old enough to remember pre-Ritalin type era? I mean that shit pretty much kicked off in the late 80s right, medicating kids and that? It's 2015 now, so he's got a fair point, who the fucks even old enough around here to fuckin' really be of a position to be able to say 'gosh, kids these days and their medicating'.

*raises hand*

+1

Never had anyone in my class who took ritalin. As I said, there probably were kids with ADD or whatever. They were just 'difficult pupils' who couldn't sit still, couldn't concentrate...

Again young lady, you are simply not that old. As far as having them in my class then i don't think I've ever met on in my life. Point being it was a 90s phenomena.

[Lio]

To be fair to Jakey Styley ( i love that name! Flex wicked...styleyyyyyy ) he's got a point about the smug and high and mighty attitude aspect though because like, if you think about it, who here is REALLY old enough to remember pre-Ritalin type era? I mean that shit pretty much kicked off in the late 80s right, medicating kids and that? It's 2015 now, so he's got a fair point, who the fucks even old enough around here to fuckin' really be of a position to be able to say 'gosh, kids these days and their medicating'.

*raises hand*

+1

Never had anyone in my class who took ritalin. As I said, there probably were kids with ADD or whatever. They were just 'difficult pupils' who couldn't sit still, couldn't concentrate...

Again young lady, you are simply not that old. As far as having them in my class then i don't think I've ever met on in my life. Point being it was a 90s phenomena.

Very nice of you to say, but I am I'm 7 or so years older than you. Maybe it started a few years later here. I know from people who teach in primary school that it wasn't around in 'my time'. In the last decade (roughly), there was always at least a couple of kids in every class that were taking something.

[Len Cnut]

Ok, perhaps you're just about old enough But fatty up there weren't!

[Dazey]

Thats bollocks, you're only 4 years older than me y'know, honestly, you don't half give it with the elder statesman bit, have you looked in the mirror lately, you look like Tommy the Rugrat you cunt Ritalin and that, thats a fuckin' 90s phenomenon, that smack-bang within your range, you were in your early teens when it all kicked off. 79 to 83, stop tryna fuckin' make me feel little 'In my day in the 80s', what do you honestly remember about the 80s anyway, by the time you stopped shitting your pants they was over In fact, you've let a few slip since as well haven't you?

Absolute gods honest fuckin gospel man. I don't know of a single person I grew up with that was ever on any of that shit. Inhalers and wotnot fair enough, for actual medical conditions and all that but never any of this anti-depressant, stimulant ADD med bollocks.

Call me naïve but I'd never even heard of that stuff until I spent a summer working in the US with kids on a summer camp. We'd have to take these poor little buggers to get doped up 3 times a day. We were actually warned to watch out for a few kids in particular because theyd forgotten to bring their meds and they literally couldnt have been sweeter if we were just willing to engage with them and pay them some attention.

When I was a little kid I went through a proper hyperactive little bugger phase and the first thing my parents did was to cut shit and sugar from my diet. Funnily enough I stopped being hyperactive and my behavior changed just like that. Now I'm not saying that ADHD absolutely doesnt exist but I'd be very interested to see how often all these other avenues are exhausted before the doctor reaches for the prescription pad.

I agree with you about a generation of fat little poofs with who simply can't find healthy ways to occupy themselves. You sit on your own in front of a Playstation for 8 hours a day stuffing your fat little face with pizza and sweets on a perpetual sugar high/crash and wonder why youre not concentrating and struggle to interact with others?

If you've got a kid who's running around the house, screaming and climbing up the curtains then why not take them out to the park with a football and run them until they're shagged out? I'm pretty fucking certain that diet, exercise and more parental attention would cure 95% of these conditions and to be honest it would make sure that the few remaining genuine cases were taken more seriously.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Dazey

[Len Cnut]

I never actually known anyone on it either but i know it was about and that. I first heard about it reading about Kurt Cobain actually, aparently he was on it as a kid so presumably in America its been around since 70s/80s.

[alfierose]

It's my son's birthday today, he is 11. He is my third child out of four and he has ADHD, he is also on the autistic spectrum and has mild tourettes. He was diagnosed with ADHD first at three years old and has been prescribed Ritalin since he was five.

I had a perfect pregnancy, ate healthily, took prenatal vitamins, didn't drink or smoke. He was a text book easy birth, was breastfeed and weaned on all the correct foods. We don't live on benefits or get handed free money or cars, he was born to two university educated parents with good jobs and I had taken a career break to be at home whilst him and his brother were little before returning part time in a socially acceptable fashion.

This child who had the perfect start in life has, over the course of the last eleven years, managed at times to bring his entire family to the verge of breakdown. He sees an array of CAMHS psychologists regularly, numerous run ins with the police and I've spent more time in A&E than I care to think about. He sleeps for about half the amount of time an average child does, we've recently managed with sleep training to get him to settle by 12 am as opposed to 3 am.

The one thing that has made a massive and consistent difference to his and our lives is his medication. Without it I would have probably killed both of us. Without it he would not have been able to stay in mainstream school even with support, he would not have learned to read or write or had a hope of developing any meaningful life skills.

Without his medication, which only lasts between 8 and 5 in the daytime, he cannot sit still, form coherent conversations because his brain and speech races at around 100 mph. He is violent and abusive, he injures himself and others through impulsiveness, he makes weird noises and randomly shouts out, he chews everything in sight - he has virtually eaten his way through his wooden bed rail, all his bed linen, hour home soft furnishings, his clothes - I have to replace his uniform weekly. He constantly breaks stuff, every curtain pole in my house has been ripped out at some point.

I'm grateful I'm not a single parent living on a council estate because I can't imagine the amount of vitriol that would be aimed at us and I've had plenty with things as they are. If I were I'm pretty sure I would have just hit the booze, prescription meds and given up. We are fortunate than many in our given situation because money talks and we have been able to skip waiting lists for therapies and we can afford to take breaks with friends when it gets too much, we can afford to pay £200 a month for respite childcare for my youngest child, to keep him as safe as we can, a seven year old who was so stressed by his home life at one point he pulled out all his eyelashes.

To all of you who read threads like this or post crap on social media believing that all disruptive kids need is tough love and less blue pop are so wide of the mark it's offensive.

In the UK it's not easy to be given Ritalin, we had two years of assessment before it was suggested at the lowest dose and he has to be monitored on a three monthly basis. It's hard to work due to the amount of appointments we attend and the lack of affordable SN childcare, I was lucky I did have an amazing childminder for a few years but she could no longer cope by the time he was nine. So I used to have a well paid job, I now work a few hours a week for a friend for minimum wage, again I'm lucky because if my partner was low waged we'd be royally fucked. People are quick to blame SN away as the result of a chaotic family lifestyle, in my experience (and not just my own) it's having children with special needs that often leads to the chaos because it's really bloody difficult a lot of the time to get out of the house and achieve stuff.

To anyone who thinks there's no way you would stand for this kind of thing or that a child of yours would never behave that way (two of my favourite passive aggressive swipes) you have no idea because life really is the proverbial box of chocolates. When you hold your sweet little newborn you can't possibly know how the next 18 years are going to pan out. When I look at my seven year old with his sunny, easy personality I can say with some confidence he would never behave like that. When I look at my daughter doing well at university I can say with confidence that I did a great job. When I look at my son with special needs the only thing I can be confident about is that I learned the hard way not to judge other people's children.

[Dazey]

It's my son's birthday today, he is 11. He is my third child out of four and he has ADHD, he is also on the autistic spectrum and has mild tourettes. He was diagnosed with ADHD first at three years old and has been prescribed Ritalin since he was five.

I had a perfect pregnancy, ate healthily, took prenatal vitamins, didn't drink or smoke. He was a text book easy birth, was breastfeed and weaned on all the correct foods. We don't live on benefits or get handed free money or cars, he was born to two university educated parents with good jobs and I had taken a career break to be at home whilst him and his brother were little before returning part time in a socially acceptable fashion.

This child who had the perfect start in life has, over the course of the last eleven years, managed at times to bring his entire family to the verge of breakdown. He sees an array of CAMHS psychologists regularly, numerous run ins with the police and I've spent more time in A&E than I care to think about. He sleeps for about half the amount of time an average child does, we've recently managed with sleep training to get him to settle by 12 am as opposed to 3 am.

The one thing that has made a massive and consistent difference to his and our lives is his medication. Without it I would have probably killed both of us. Without it he would not have been able to stay in mainstream school even with support, he would not have learned to read or write or had a hope of developing any meaningful life skills.

Without his medication, which only lasts between 8 and 5 in the daytime, he cannot sit still, form coherent conversations because his brain and speech races at around 100 mph. He is violent and abusive, he injures himself and others through impulsiveness, he makes weird noises and randomly shouts out, he chews everything in sight - he has virtually eaten his way through his wooden bed rail, all his bed linen, hour home soft furnishings, his clothes - I have to replace his uniform weekly. He constantly breaks stuff, every curtain pole in my house has been ripped out at some point.

I'm grateful I'm not a single parent living on a council estate because I can't imagine the amount of vitriol that would be aimed at us and I've had plenty with things as they are. If I were I'm pretty sure I would have just hit the booze, prescription meds and given up. We are fortunate than many in our given situation because money talks and we have been able to skip waiting lists for therapies and we can afford to take breaks with friends when it gets too much, we can afford to pay £200 a month for respite childcare for my youngest child, to keep him as safe as we can, a seven year old who was so stressed by his home life at one point he pulled out all his eyelashes.

To all of you who read threads like this or post crap on social media believing that all disruptive kids need is tough love and less blue pop are so wide of the mark it's offensive.

In the UK it's not easy to be given Ritalin, we had two years of assessment before it was suggested at the lowest dose and he has to be monitored on a three monthly basis. It's hard to work due to the amount of appointments we attend and the lack of affordable SN childcare, I was lucky I did have an amazing childminder for a few years but she could no longer cope by the time he was nine. So I used to have a well paid job, I now work a few hours a week for a friend for minimum wage, again I'm lucky because if my partner was low waged we'd be royally fucked. People are quick to blame SN away as the result of a chaotic family lifestyle, in my experience (and not just my own) it's having children with special needs that often leads to the chaos because it's really bloody difficult a lot of the time to get out of the house and achieve stuff.

To anyone who thinks there's no way you would stand for this kind of thing or that a child of yours would never behave that way (two of my favourite passive aggressive swipes) you have no idea because life really is the proverbial box of chocolates. When you hold your sweet little newborn you can't possibly know how the next 18 years are going to pan out. When I look at my seven year old with his sunny, easy personality I can say with some confidence he would never behave like that. When I look at my daughter doing well at university I can say with confidence that I did a great job. When I look at my son with special needs the only thing I can be confident about is that I learned the hard way not to judge other people's children.

Nobody is saying that genuine cases don't exist. It's the massive over diagnosis that I think is an issue.

Here is the official list of symptoms used to make an ADHD diagnosis. If you're under 17 and exhibit 6 of the following you have ADHD.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Dazey

[Lio]

Thank you for posting this, Alfie. It must be a terrible strain on your whole family. As a mother, I can only hope for a 'normal' child, meaning one that is healthy, has friends, hobbies, and can cope at school, without having to excel, but without struggling too. You're right, people are often very quick to judge, and I'm no exception. I do notice the older I get, the less certain I am of things, and the more I try not to judge.

Congratulations on your son's birthday today!

[MB.]

It's so weird to read that in other countries drugs is given so easily. I have three kids in school and I only know 2 kids in the entire school, who are getting medication for ADHD. One kid, who is playmate of my son, is also a very sweet and lovely kid, but it just can't function in school or socially without medication. The view that kids with ADHD are always little bratz is not right and only shows how little people know about the condition. They are impulsive and get themselves in trouble, sometimes do very dangerous stuff, but not necessarily unpolite or loud. Allthough people might think they are, they just speak a lot and often are way too honest. If you really want to have a honest answer how you look today, ask somebody with ADHD . But they try, they really try, they just see the world differently and often don't understand normal social interaction.

Now the ADD cases are mostly not found till they go high school or even when they are adults. They are often not seen, since they are quiet, more in the background, stare out the window, are not active at all. They often just shut up, out of fear to say something socially awkward.

Not saying kids are not overmedicated in some cases and maybe more so in the US. But that doesn't mean ADHD/ADD doesn't exist or that medication is not needed at all.

Btw I am from the generation who know how it was before the 90s. Kids with severe ADHD never went to normal schools. When kids couldn't concentrate or had behaviour problems, they went to 'special' schools. That's the reason, you never knew them.

Edit:

Thanks for your story Alfie!

Edited March 3, 2015 by MB.

[magisme]

Glad I could inspire.

I'm in Berlin. I haven't slept in 24 hours. The US is a particularly fucked up case, so we should be careful to understand that many of these drugs have a proper use. We're out of control over here, though. It's just about money, really. We don't produce anything of value anymore, so we spend obscene amounts on "healthcare," call it progress and innovation, dope up our population, and brainwash everyone into thinking we have a functioning society and economy. It can't last. It's unsustainable like so many other things in the world at present. Future historians could easily call this the Age of Unsustainability.

[alfierose]

It's my son's birthday today, he is 11. He is my third child out of four and he has ADHD, he is also on the autistic spectrum and has mild tourettes. He was diagnosed with ADHD first at three years old and has been prescribed Ritalin since he was five.

I had a perfect pregnancy, ate healthily, took prenatal vitamins, didn't drink or smoke. He was a text book easy birth, was breastfeed and weaned on all the correct foods. We don't live on benefits or get handed free money or cars, he was born to two university educated parents with good jobs and I had taken a career break to be at home whilst him and his brother were little before returning part time in a socially acceptable fashion.

This child who had the perfect start in life has, over the course of the last eleven years, managed at times to bring his entire family to the verge of breakdown. He sees an array of CAMHS psychologists regularly, numerous run ins with the police and I've spent more time in A&E than I care to think about. He sleeps for about half the amount of time an average child does, we've recently managed with sleep training to get him to settle by 12 am as opposed to 3 am.

The one thing that has made a massive and consistent difference to his and our lives is his medication. Without it I would have probably killed both of us. Without it he would not have been able to stay in mainstream school even with support, he would not have learned to read or write or had a hope of developing any meaningful life skills.

Without his medication, which only lasts between 8 and 5 in the daytime, he cannot sit still, form coherent conversations because his brain and speech races at around 100 mph. He is violent and abusive, he injures himself and others through impulsiveness, he makes weird noises and randomly shouts out, he chews everything in sight - he has virtually eaten his way through his wooden bed rail, all his bed linen, hour home soft furnishings, his clothes - I have to replace his uniform weekly. He constantly breaks stuff, every curtain pole in my house has been ripped out at some point.

I'm grateful I'm not a single parent living on a council estate because I can't imagine the amount of vitriol that would be aimed at us and I've had plenty with things as they are. If I were I'm pretty sure I would have just hit the booze, prescription meds and given up. We are fortunate than many in our given situation because money talks and we have been able to skip waiting lists for therapies and we can afford to take breaks with friends when it gets too much, we can afford to pay £200 a month for respite childcare for my youngest child, to keep him as safe as we can, a seven year old who was so stressed by his home life at one point he pulled out all his eyelashes.

To all of you who read threads like this or post crap on social media believing that all disruptive kids need is tough love and less blue pop are so wide of the mark it's offensive.

In the UK it's not easy to be given Ritalin, we had two years of assessment before it was suggested at the lowest dose and he has to be monitored on a three monthly basis. It's hard to work due to the amount of appointments we attend and the lack of affordable SN childcare, I was lucky I did have an amazing childminder for a few years but she could no longer cope by the time he was nine. So I used to have a well paid job, I now work a few hours a week for a friend for minimum wage, again I'm lucky because if my partner was low waged we'd be royally fucked. People are quick to blame SN away as the result of a chaotic family lifestyle, in my experience (and not just my own) it's having children with special needs that often leads to the chaos because it's really bloody difficult a lot of the time to get out of the house and achieve stuff.

To anyone who thinks there's no way you would stand for this kind of thing or that a child of yours would never behave that way (two of my favourite passive aggressive swipes) you have no idea because life really is the proverbial box of chocolates. When you hold your sweet little newborn you can't possibly know how the next 18 years are going to pan out. When I look at my seven year old with his sunny, easy personality I can say with some confidence he would never behave like that. When I look at my daughter doing well at university I can say with confidence that I did a great job. When I look at my son with special needs the only thing I can be confident about is that I learned the hard way not to judge other people's children.

Nobody is saying that genuine cases don't exist. It's the massive over diagnosis that I think is an issue.

Here is the official list of symptoms used to make an ADHD diagnosis. If you're under 17 and exhibit 6 of the following you have ADHD.

I'm not sure why you think there is an over diagnosis. I can't speak for the USA but in the UK the opposite is true, I'm part of an additional needs parenting group and every story is the same - knocking on every door, waiting lists for assessment that are 2 years + unless you can pay. Lack of diagnosis and support for all kinds of conditions is rife, you need a ridiculous level of persistence to get anywhere. My son is one of the exceptions in being diagnosed so early possibly due to his severity and partly because I have the mental capacity to challenge Doctors and Health Professionals whose preferred stance is wait and see if they grow out of it.

Most kids are well into secondary school before they get any support if at all, prisons and youth offending institutes are full of people who are dyslexic, dyspraxic, ASD, ADHD and other neurological and mental health issues. This, in my opinion could be lessened if diagnosis was more and not less frequent. CAMHS is a failing service, they've just under gone a massive review and have quite rightly been slated, with such poor early intervention the buck just passes to overburdened adult services.

It's easy for you to say oh your kid must be one of the genuine cases but the truth is if you met him on a bad day you would just assume he was one of the stereotypical, feral, badly brought up kids so beloved by the Daily Mail. How can you (not you specifically but you in a general sense) possibly know who is deserving and who isn't? As a family we get a modicum of empathy thrown our way sometimes because we have a veneer of middle class respectability but he would be the same kid whatever our life circumstances. As it is he is doing fairly well because he's had a lot of intervention, I know of a number of kids less severe than him who have been excluded from school after school and by age eleven are in secure educational units, the difference often is because other kids have a less secure background but I can't judge their parents for this because if I was doing this alone or with a low income or a low level of education I would have gone to the wall by now.

[Len Cnut]

Glad I could inspire.

I'm in Berlin. I haven't slept in 24 hours. The US is a particularly fucked up case, so we should be careful to understand that many of these drugs have a proper use. We're out of control over here, though. It's just about money, really. We don't produce anything of value anymore, so we spend obscene amounts on "healthcare," call it progress and innovation, dope up our population, and brainwash everyone into thinking we have a functioning society and economy. It can't last. It's unsustainable like so many other things in the world at present. Future historians could easily call this the Age of Unsustainability.

Nick all their drugs and give em to me!

[Lio]

I'm not sure why you think there is an over diagnosis. I can't speak for the USA but in the UK the opposite is true, I'm part of an additional needs parenting group and every story is the same - knocking on every door, waiting lists for assessment that are 2 years + unless you can pay. Lack of diagnosis and support for all kinds of conditions is rife, you need a ridiculous level of persistence to get anywhere. My son is one of the exceptions in being diagnosed so early possibly due to his severity and partly because I have the mental capacity to challenge Doctors and Health Professionals whose preferred stance is wait and see if they grow out of it.

Most kids are well into secondary school before they get any support if at all, prisons and youth offending institutes are full of people who are dyslexic, dyspraxic, ASD, ADHD and other neurological and mental health issues. This, in my opinion could be lessened if diagnosis was more and not less frequent. CAMHS is a failing service, they've just under gone a massive review and have quite rightly been slated, with such poor early intervention the buck just passes to overburdened adult services.

It's easy for you to say oh your kid must be one of the genuine cases but the truth is if you met him on a bad day you would just assume he was one of the stereotypical, feral, badly brought up kids so beloved by the Daily Mail. How can you (not you specifically but you in a general sense) possibly know who is deserving and who isn't? As a family we get a modicum of empathy thrown our way sometimes because we have a veneer of middle class respectability but he would be the same kid whatever our life circumstances. As it is he is doing fairly well because he's had a lot of intervention, I know of a number of kids less severe than him who have been excluded from school after school and by age eleven are in secure educational units, the difference often is because other kids have a less secure background but I can't judge their parents for this because if I was doing this alone or with a low income or a low level of education I would have gone to the wall by now.

Don't know about Dazey or the UK, but I got the impression it was given out quite easily here from a mum whose kid had trouble at kindergarten and she was advised to treat him with ritalin. A friend of hers was in the field as well and thought he might not need it, but could improve with the right treatment, without medication. So the mother refused the ritalin and the boy went to kindergarten three days a week and he went to a special needs school the other two days, where they worked on improving his specific needs. He's now in primary school and doing well. He doesn't even need to go to the special needs school anymore. I know I have very limited experience with this of course, but this story suggests to me that, at least here, medication is given too easily in some cases.

[netcat]

Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.

The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.

http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html

[alfierose]

I'm not sure why you think there is an over diagnosis. I can't speak for the USA but in the UK the opposite is true, I'm part of an additional needs parenting group and every story is the same - knocking on every door, waiting lists for assessment that are 2 years + unless you can pay. Lack of diagnosis and support for all kinds of conditions is rife, you need a ridiculous level of persistence to get anywhere. My son is one of the exceptions in being diagnosed so early possibly due to his severity and partly because I have the mental capacity to challenge Doctors and Health Professionals whose preferred stance is wait and see if they grow out of it.

Most kids are well into secondary school before they get any support if at all, prisons and youth offending institutes are full of people who are dyslexic, dyspraxic, ASD, ADHD and other neurological and mental health issues. This, in my opinion could be lessened if diagnosis was more and not less frequent. CAMHS is a failing service, they've just under gone a massive review and have quite rightly been slated, with such poor early intervention the buck just passes to overburdened adult services.

It's easy for you to say oh your kid must be one of the genuine cases but the truth is if you met him on a bad day you would just assume he was one of the stereotypical, feral, badly brought up kids so beloved by the Daily Mail. How can you (not you specifically but you in a general sense) possibly know who is deserving and who isn't? As a family we get a modicum of empathy thrown our way sometimes because we have a veneer of middle class respectability but he would be the same kid whatever our life circumstances. As it is he is doing fairly well because he's had a lot of intervention, I know of a number of kids less severe than him who have been excluded from school after school and by age eleven are in secure educational units, the difference often is because other kids have a less secure background but I can't judge their parents for this because if I was doing this alone or with a low income or a low level of education I would have gone to the wall by now.

Don't know about Dazey or the UK, but I got the impression it was given out quite easily here from a mum whose kid had trouble at kindergarten and she was advised to treat him with ritalin. A friend of hers was in the field as well and thought he might not need it, but could improve with the right treatment, without medication. So the mother refused the ritalin and the boy went to kindergarten three days a week and he went to a special needs school the other two days, where they worked on improving his specific needs. He's now in primary school and doing well. He doesn't even need to go to the special needs school anymore. I know I have very limited experience with this of course, but this story suggests to me that, at least here, medication is given too easily in some cases.

That maybe the case and the rules do seem to vary from one country to another. I think if my son was an only child and if he could be placed in a small classroom setting with one to one support we could possibly get by without medication but it would be a full time job in itself. The kind of intervention you describe is costly and I can't see that ever happening in this country except maybe in the rarest of cases. There is a little girl with Downs Syndrome at our school and her Mum had to take the local authority to court to get specific classroom support for her never mind shared care with a special school.

Targeted special schools are really rare in the UK now, a lot have been closed and the buzz word is main stream inclusiveness except nobody has actually stumped up the cash to achieve this properly. Medication is not the only option but it is cheaper I guess, in our case it works though. Ever seen someone take speed and become super manic? It's like but in reverse, I'm constantly astounded and grateful that there is a drug that can turn my son from someone half crazed with pupils like saucers to a calmer and more rational individual in the space of thirty minutes. I understand some of the skepticism because if I hadn't experienced it I probably would think it dreadful and unnecessary too.

It's not a cure all and doesn't solve all his difficulties, in some ways it makes the ASD side of things more apparent because they are not being masked by hyperactivity. This in the long term has made it easier to understand him and to teach him, unmedicated I don't think he can hear anything other than what's in his own head.

There are a lot of restrictions in this country attached to the drugs, I only get 28 days supply at a time, the dosage is reviewed regularly to ensure he is only on the minimum dose to be effective. If i need extra for any reason (lost prescription etc..) Im given the spanish inquistion by his GP. I have a couple of weeks a year one of us spends alone with him on a medication break to assess where he is at without it and he has regular health screening. I can't really fault the medical side of it, it's just the support side which is woeful. If they are handed out freely in other countries then it is possibly irresponsible as I think the above measures are correct as they would be for any serious medication . I wouldn't want to see them banned because of scaremongering because used properly in the right circumstances they can make a massive difference to a childs life and education.

[Lio]

That maybe the case and the rules do seem to vary from one country to another. I think if my son was an only child and if he could be placed in a small classroom setting with one to one support we could possibly get by without medication but it would be a full time job in itself. The kind of intervention you describe is costly and I can't see that ever happening in this country except maybe in the rarest of cases. There is a little girl with Downs Syndrome at our school and her Mum had to take the local authority to court to get specific classroom support for her never mind shared care with a special school.

Targeted special schools are really rare in the UK now, a lot have been closed and the buzz word is main stream inclusiveness except nobody has actually stumped up the cash to achieve this properly. Medication is not the only option but it is cheaper I guess, in our case it works though. Ever seen someone take speed and become super manic? It's like but in reverse, I'm constantly astounded and grateful that there is a drug that can turn my son from someone half crazed with pupils like saucers to a calmer and more rational individual in the space of thirty minutes. I understand some of the skepticism because if I hadn't experienced it I probably would think it dreadful and unnecessary too.

It's not a cure all and doesn't solve all his difficulties, in some ways it makes the ASD side of things more apparent because they are not being masked by hyperactivity. This in the long term has made it easier to understand him and to teach him, unmedicated I don't think he can hear anything other than what's in his own head.

There are a lot of restrictions in this country attached to the drugs, I only get 28 days supply at a time, the dosage is reviewed regularly to ensure he is only on the minimum dose to be effective. If i need extra for any reason (lost prescription etc..) Im given the spanish inquistion by his GP. I have a couple of weeks a year one of us spends alone with him on a medication break to assess where he is at without it and he has regular health screening. I can't really fault the medical side of it, it's just the support side which is woeful. If they are handed out freely in other countries then it is possibly irresponsible as I think the above measures are correct as they would be for any serious medication . I wouldn't want to see them banned because of scaremongering because used properly in the right circumstances they can make a massive difference to a childs life and education.

I hear you on the inclusiveness buzz word. That's something we hear a lot about too. But as you say, schools are ill prepared for that kind of education. I know two kids that went to a special needs school for a couple of years (one parttime, the other fulltime) and both are now in a regular school and doing well. But no doubt it has cost a lot of money and effort of both society and parents. I assume most parents would prefer their kid being helped with adequate treatment (if possible), not with medication. Sadly, it often seems impossible, due to lack of capacity or money.

Of course there are so many special needs and in so many degrees. No treatment is suitable for everyone and sometimes (or often, don't know enough about it to be able to say) medication is necessary.

[alfierose]

When medication was first raised by his paediatrician we rejected it a few times on the basis it seemed terrifying and a major step. We were eventually convinced by the argument that if we can calm his brain down he will actually begin to learn things that are standard for other children, he was quite developmentally behind age 5 with limited speech. So we went ahead assuming that other therapies would commence but this is where the system falls down, those therapies don't materialise so you're left with just medication which probably gives way to the popular notion that parents just dope their kids up to shut them up. Speech therapy through school lasted for two sessions then they never turned up again, at one point the child and adolescent mental health service lost his records so he saw nobody for a year. The most effective things are things we have gone ahead and paid for, which is really sad for those that can't afford, the privilege and inequality isn't lost on me.