Best American Rock Band

[downzy]

So it seems everyone agrees, Bon Jovi

Nobody agrees to that

[downzy]

I'll use The Doors as an example of a band with more well known songs than actual hit singles...but again, the well known songs being played over and over again for years on classic rock radio has made them "hits" without them being hits in the first place...

Here's The Doors top 40 hits: Light My Fire, People Are Strange, Love Me Two Times, The Unknown Soldier, Hello I Love You, Touch Me, Love Her Madly, Riders On The Storm

These songs were not released as singles---The End, When The Music's Over, Strange Days, Not To Touch The Earth, Roadhouse Blues, Waiting For The Sun, The Crystal Ship, Alabama Song, Back Door Man, Moonlight Drive, Five To One, Peace Frog, LA Woman...and the list goes on and on....all of them are well known and over time have become "hits".

And this is where we agree ( I think ) on hits...there's the actual released charted type and the radio played type...

You must be a huge Ramones fan. I'd be hard pressed to identify more than three of those songs and I listen to a lot of music.

I am a fan of the Ramones sure...huge? not really...can't say I've listened to them in well over 15 years aside from the odd track here and there

I too am a fan of a lot of music. I own over 50,000 albums (not a typo)

Maybe you should listen to more Ramones then

Maybe you'll discover some songs and albums that you like by them instead of just thinking they are about Blitzkrieg Bop and I Wanna Be Sedated.

Where I take issue with your perspective relates to the official single component. I'd rather surmise the popularity of any given rock song and consider it a hit based on the frequency it's played on rock-formatted radio stations and song charts than on whether someone from the label decided it warranted an official single release. A song like Black, which as you noted wasn't released as an official single (even had Eddie phoning radio stations ensuring that the radio company didn't officially release anything), still received a tremendous amount of airplay because it was incredibly popular. At that point, who cares whether it was an official release or not? It's still charting. Imagine how the song might have charted had it actually received label and band support? And then consider Yellow Ledbetter, which wasn't even released on any official album until 2006, but still charted well in '94 when a majority of the band's fans got wind of it. So again, I consider your perspective on what constitute a "hit" song as being too narrow.

As for the Ramones, I've tried. I can take about two or three songs and then the sound starts to wear on me. There's just not enough diversity from song to song, and other than a few of the songs (I Wanna Be Sedated, Judy is a Punk), the melodies don't do much for me. As funny as this might sound, their music for me sounds like a pale imitation of some of the great early doo-wop rock and roll artists of the 1950s and later bands like The Beach Boys. I think as a statement or rebuttal to what was going on at the time the Ramones were important, but as an actual music act, I don't consider them to be the towering giants that others make them out to be.

I have agreed with your take on hits, have no idea why you still think my perspective is different from yours. It's the same. I have said that a song can be considered a hit without it being released as a single and that's what you're saying and used Yellow Ledbetter as an example and The Doors as well to indicate what a hit is...which is your take on what a hit is.

But...my opinion on hits is that I don't care one way or another. Whether a band has hits means nothing to me as far as the greatness of the band or their influence and impact or if I will like their music or not. One band has more hits than another? Means absolutely nothing to me. And I don't understand why it does to some people. It's not an indication of the talent or the greatness of the song. It's just a popularity contest. And it's a narrow field. Not every band or artist gets to play on the same level as others who have the big labels and promotion behind them.

The Ramones absolutely sound like a doo-wop band...mixed in with garage rock and the girl group sound of the 60's. That is the Ramones sound in a nutshell.

Sorry, I was still under the impression that you considered Pearl Jam a band with few hits.

I don't think we can discount popularity or reach. It's important not to overvalue its importance, but I'm not sure one can consider a band as "the best" without factoring in its ability to reach as many people as possible. Hits are just indicative of that, I think. Perhaps I'm naive, but the truly great artists breakthrough to mainstream consciousness. You can't hold greatness down; it will inevitably rise to the top so long as enough people are exposed to it. Writing and performing great material must include a measure of accessibility. Some might argue that certain prog rock bands are "the best," because more often than not, they're the most musically attuned musicians out there. It's great if your song switches time signatures three times and includes twelve different chords, but if no one wants to hear it, it's hard to make the argument that it's all that great. Very few GNR fans consider Sweet Child their favourite or best GNR track, but it was Sweet Child that broke the band into into the mainstream zeitgeist (i've been using that word a lot lately, lol).

In other words, it's an artists ability to connect with as many people as possible with great music that makes them truly great.

At least, that's my opinion.

[shotsfired cro]

As you can tell, I'm bored so I'm making threads on topics I'm thinking about.

Anyways, rock n' roll is an American invention but it can be easily argued that the Brits took it to the next level. You have the freaking Beatles, Stones, the British Invasion, Floyd, The Who, Zeppelin, Sabbath, Purple, the first wave of heavy metal, etc all come out of Britain. I believe Punk started there too, right? (I could be wrong)

So what band (if any) could hold the title of biggest/best American rock band?

I guess the biggest ones overall would be-

Aerosmith

Van Halen

The Eagles

Metallica

Aerosmith is probably the most obvious choice. They're legends, and their debut- Rocks is one of the best rock album runs ever. Although I really enjoy a lot of their late 70s- more modern stuff, its clearly not the same. They also started really chasing trends in the 90s and have really never recovered from that. Their last album, alone had ballads copying "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing" and a Carrie Underwood duet. That'd be fine if the song was good and it was something they were genuine about, but I don't think that was the case. Still, their past work cements their legacy, and their live shows have always been great. Plus, you know, Steven Tyler. I guess they'd take my vote.

Next is Van Halen. You can't deny how important Eddie has been to popular music. He was one of those rare, one in a million, talents that changed the way guitar was looked at. Did he start two handed tapping? No, but he made it his own style and for better or worse, influenced an entire decade of guitar playing. However, as much as I like Van Halen, they are still just a band that made dumb, fun music. Their music with DLR is a blast, but pretty shallow (nothing wrong with that) and it got an extra layer of cheese with Sammy (again, nothing wrong with that). Great band, but I feel like Aerosmith is a notch above. Maybe VH's inactivity over the years and declining live show (the 2004 tour and current DLR) contribute to that, idk.

Now for The Eagles. These guys are probably the most musically inclined of these 3 older bands. They never sold out musically, in my opinion, and represent a really cool side of America. I can't think of a band that blends rock, country, and folk music better than The Eagles. Their live shows were always stellar, their releases always good (I even really loved Long Road out of Eden, a very ambitious album for that stage in their career imo), but their fighting and decades of inactivity hurt them.

Finally, Metallica. Sure, they are heavy metal but I think that can count. Metallica is a new comer compared to the other 3, but they've had a long career with just as many ups and downs. Their debut- ... And Justice Through All is metal perfection, and then they hit even more people with The Black Album. That album doesn't get as much love anymore, but I think it is a really cool mix of more commercial metal. There are some stellar songs on it. Load/ReLoad were cool because they showed the band wasn't afraid to try new things. Of course, St. Anger sucked, but that's one album. I liked Death Magnetic, and their live shows have always been phenomenal. Plus, they have remained huge without quite reaching "nostalgia" level like The Eagles, VH, and Aerosmith. They try new things (a movie, festival, LuLu, etc), are cool to their fans, and are really popular. Still, I feel like Aerosmith has more of a "legacy" thing going.

Then there are other bands that are/were huge like Bon Jovi, Kiss, GNR, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, CCR, Jimi Hendrix, The Band, The Doors, The Beach Boys, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, etc but I stand by one of the 4 above for being the "best" American rock band that can hold the flag.

(Best is a subjective term, I am just bored and want to start a discussion because all of you are lame today)

EDIT- Yes, I left GNR off. They COULD have been up there, but they broke up before they reached it. Too bad, so sad.

depends what you consider 'biggest'.

Like them or not, Bon Jovi is probably the biggest overall.

Record sales, tours, tour income.

The Eagles outside US are non existant.

Nobody knows any song other than Hotel California.

Aerosmith, had a good run in the 70's when the tours were much smaller in small venues, than had a good era 88-93, but never became a stadium band, more Arena band, last 15 years also non existant.

Metallica ok, but overall, not near Bon Jovi.

...VH, irrelevant outside USA, entirely.

I guess I always forget how big Bon Jovi really is. I don't know them a while lot, but I do love 'Dry County'. They always play arenas and stadiums when they come to Michigan.

yeah, Dry County is hands down their best song IMO.

But as I said, they are globally probably biggest band. After all, they play stadium tour for about 25 years now, so...

Every time they tour, they tour Europe, US, S America, Asia, Australia and it is always stadium shows with the biggest income of the year.

U2 was in that range for a while, but they tour far less frequentlly, not to mention they are gonne now for the past 5 years.

Back in 2008, I recall their Japan tour broke the record for any band in Japan having tours and no. 1 singles in the charts!

They circeled Japan a few times since...

As I said, it is always a matter of what ppl consider 'biggest'.

I see ppl mentioning Ramones, REM..., ok, Ramones still are extremly popular here, REM was too, but neither could sell out Arenas, more Sprt halls 5-10.000 ppl.

MY US bands of interest were always Slash, real GNR, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, STP but to give you a straight picture...

STP sold more than 40 million records in US alone, however, they never cracked outside of North America.

Kind of like Oasis and US.

They once tried to go on the tour at their peak and played like 8 festival shows, afternoon time.

Never came back to Europe after 1992.

Soundgarden, Faith No More, AIC..., all have kinda cult status, but can't play in venues bigger than 5000.

That is solo shows.

Guns N Roses and Nirvana could have been biggest US bands would they have lasted longer.

in the 90's GNR were the biggest band in the world, by far. Unfortunately, Axl's ego was too big.

[DieselDaisy]

From your 60s acts onwards, I would go The Doors, Springfield, Beach Boys, Byrds (in that loose order). GN'R only had one great album. Aerosmith fell foul to the smack too early to seriously impress us with a string of masterpieces. Kiss were basically a commercial toy brand who just happened to do rock music, as a bit-on-the-side. 1990s American suicide rock is distasteful to the ears.

Springfield could have been as great as The Beatles if they were not so rancorous towards one and another. The Doors probably have the crown then. If however you open up the topic to the 1950s, that automatically brings into consideration Elvis, Scotty, Bill and DJ; Chuck, Johnson and Willie Dixon. The Crickets. Those are the true greats.

[luciusfunk]

Lol at "Blitzkrieg Pop".

[Amir]

In my opinion AFD+UYI-era GNR managed to fulfil Aerosmith's aim of being the Great American Hard Rock Band. I dig Aerosmith, saw them live for the first time last year and it was a great show, but even Rocks-era 'smith doesn't reach anywhere near the heights of the Stones' output, and I'm not that even big a Stones fan.

Bon Jovi certainly has international appeal (comedian once said you could bring about world peace just with the guitar talk box bit of "Livin' on a Prayer"), but nothing in their discography touches Appetite. Van Halen are nowhere near as big outside North America as they are at home.

BBC did a docu series last year on this subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkoXqXAGvkE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh7DVY48xxQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IoPzcybmGg

[GivenToFly]

With Aerosmith it was their Geffen music that made them superstars. That's what gave them a big appeal outside US and outside rock fandom.

I'd also say it's better but on a rock forum I'm scared I'll have rotten tomatoes thrown at me.

[Sixes]

Black Flag, Husker Du, Fugazi, Wilco

[Mastodonny]

What about Springsteen and the East Street Band? Or REM? I don't care for either but their influence and popularity can't be denied.

[OmarBradley]

What about Springsteen and the East Street Band? Or REM? I don't care for either but their influence and popularity can't be denied.

I think Bruce is pretty big in Europe too, and maybe Asia?

[Sixes]

What about Springsteen and the East Street Band? Or REM? I don't care for either but their influence and popularity can't be denied.

Agreed on both and both have been mentioned somewhere in the thread

[DR DOOM]

The Alice Cooper Group: Coop, Bruce, Buxton, Dunaway and Smith.

[Johnny Drama]

I would say VH, Metallica and Aerosmith are big which they are in America for their respective eras but in Australia you'd struggle to find anyone that knows an old school Aerosmith song, anything other than One (metalheads obviously excluded) or anything other than the big 1984 singles. The wrong eras are played on the radio IMO, for all three bands.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Johnny Drama

[GivenToFly]

Are we just mentioning random american bands now?

[Len Cnut]

Are we just mentioning random american bands now?

Which is what you end up with if influence or originality don't factor.

On another note, looking through this thread it occurs to me that mainstream American rock is almost completely worthless.

I don't think we can discount popularity or reach. It's important not to overvalue its importance, but I'm not sure one can consider a band as "the best" without factoring in its ability to reach as many people as possible.

The Ramones toured all over the world, they reached the people.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Len B'stard

[DR DOOM]

The Ramones toured all over the world, they reached the people.

The essential Ramones album was recorded in England

[magisme]

downzy: It's an insult to Americans to say The Ramones is the greatest American rock band

downzy: Pearl Jam is the greatest American rock band.

[DieselDaisy]

Elvis/Scotty Moore/Bill Black/DJ Fontana is numero uno.

[Len Cnut]

Were they a band I'd agree with you.

[sturginho]

Hey Ho Let's Go!

I can't believe nobody mentioned Limp Bizkit yet?

In all seriousness my favourite American band other than Guns N Roses is Coheed and Cambria, they go straight to the top of my list of best things to come out of America

[DieselDaisy]

They were a band. They were Elvis's band.

[Len Cnut]

Hey, i agree with you but its presented as Elvis the performer, not a band. Shit, if we're to include backing groups it blows the whole thing wide open, James Browns various backing bands, musically speaking, had more talent in them than any of the bands mentioned in this thread.

[DieselDaisy]

James Brown used to dock them wages if they missed, even a note.

[Rovim]

Hey, i agree with you but its presented as Elvis the performer, not a band. Shit, if we're to include backing groups it blows the whole thing wide open, James Browns various backing bands, musically speaking, had more talent in them than any of the bands mentioned in this thread.

The MG's.

[Len Cnut]

James Brown used to dock them wages if they missed, even a note.

And to complicate that further, it's not like they were missing notes in the sense of the strict structure of the song, they were missing notes in the context of his making each song into almost a kind of vamp where his hand gestures and movements would dictate their musical direction, have you ANY idea how hard must fucking be? And he would purpose put these gestures in to a part of the song where it'd be most difficult for them to execute it. I mean it's one thing to have a note perfect song there and ready for you, people find it difficult to do that without fucking up, nevermind not knowing what you're gonna play and following James Browns fuckin' bodily movements to direct them, it was ridiculous.

He'd assemble the best top drawer upper percentile jazz musicians...and make them play this music that a lot of them considered kinda beneath them. He'd be like 'Jab', i got an idea for a song, it goes 'boom bop ba dum bum dup pup boom bop' and shit like that and they'd have to transcribe his 'vocalese' as Jabo called it