Dee Snider takes aim at GnR...

[moreblack]

He's just saying what more than a few people have thought all these years.

[GUNNER PT]

[moreblack]

Should have the Willy Wonka guy in the picture.

[GUNNER PT]

Should have the Willy Wonka guy in the picture.

[spliff]

[GUNNER PT]

I like the girl's face

[tinyrobot]

I just found out Twisted Sisters were sort of popular in the 70's...

Geez, my parents hadn't even met

[ZoSoRose]

Twisted Sister and Dee Snider suck. Just an awful band, imo

That is my contribution

[Turn_It_Up]

I have always disagreed with the notion that a band is defined by any particular lineup. I have no problems accepting that a band can have changing lineups, less popular lineups, less productive lineups, etc. It is the same band, albeit with different lineups. This concept should be within the grasp of most people here, it is not rocket science or anything. If we were to arbitraily - or according to our own preferences - decide that only some lineups are worthy to be referred to by the band name, then that gives us a plethora of problems, not the least what band name to assign to the remaining lineups/epochs. It is unnecessarily complicated and just comes from a childish position where people feel a big need to distance some lineups they don't appreciate from those they cherish perhaps a tad too much

Most people go the opposite way of you. Most aren't fans of a band name or brand, but are fans of the musicians themselves. The actual artists making the music they love. What is so challenging about that concept to you? Unless you are getting royalties or some other payments from the entity Guns N' Roses, why would any fan feel more loyalty to the name or brand than the people whose music they connected with in the 1st place? 1 is being a fan and 1 is being a sheep.

For sure, if a band is around long enough, there is likely to be a lineup change or 2, and some pass the smell test and others don't. AC/DC pulled it off. I personally am a huge DLR-VH fan only, but can recognize the success and legitimacy of the Sammy era. With Guns, it was always gonna be No Slash=No GNR to most fans.

And the whole thing about lineup changes not mattering in the context of GNR is utter bullshit anyways. If Axl walked out tomorrow and signed the name over to Ashba to find a new singer, neither you nor anyone on the planet would still consider it GNR.

The actual musicians are the ONLY thing that matter and Nu-Guns never came close to passing the smell test...

[tinyrobot]

Most people go the opposite way of you. Most aren't fans of a band name or brand, but are fans of the musicians themselves.

With Guns, it was always gonna be No Slash=No GNR to most fans.

The actual musicians are the ONLY thing that matter and Nu-Guns never came close to passing the smell test...

Where did you get from that MOST fans think No Slash=No GNR?

If that was the case, there wouldn't be so many people attending GN'R shows even after 20 years of Slash long gone.

There are lots of people who like and appreciate the nu-Guns line-up and actually, Guns N' Roses as a whole dysfunctional band to the max, still works in a great dysfunctional sense. What do I mean? GN'R fans attend nu-Guns show, Slash shows, Duff shows, Gilby shows.... It's like the band, all dismembered as it is, it's still working as a desintegrated whole, if that makes any sense.

Slash came to Argentina with his band, played with Duff and Gilby and the audience was chanting GUNS N' ROSES to them. He got kinda pissed off, but that shows the fans will go follow GN'R and its ex-members wherever they go, and that's a good thing after all!

[Turn_It_Up]

Most people go the opposite way of you. Most aren't fans of a band name or brand, but are fans of the musicians themselves.

With Guns, it was always gonna be No Slash=No GNR to most fans.

The actual musicians are the ONLY thing that matter and Nu-Guns never came close to passing the smell test...

Where did you get from that MOST fans think No Slash=No GNR?

If that was the case, there wouldn't be so many people attending GN'R shows even after 20 years of Slash long gone.

There are lots of people who like and appreciate the nu-Guns line-up and actually, Guns N' Roses as a whole dysfunctional band to the max, still works in a great dysfunctional sense. What do I mean? GN'R fans attend nu-Guns show, Slash shows, Duff shows, Gilby shows.... It's like the band, all dismembered as it is, it's still working as a desintegrated whole, if that makes any sense.

Slash came to Argentina with his band, played with Duff and Gilby and the audience was chanting GUNS N' ROSES to them. He got kinda pissed off, but that shows the fans will go follow GN'R and its ex-members wherever they go, and that's a good thing after all!

So you believe it is the name and brand that matters, not the actual musicians?

When I say No Slash=No GNR, I mean it in the same way No Axl=No GNR. If in the 90's, Axl had been the one to walk away and the remaining guys had pulled in Cornell, as good as that might've been musically, still not GNR for the vast majority of fans.

And just because Axl's able to pull in some amount of fans for shows doesn't mean many consider the band GNR.

Names mean nothing without the people behind them. But more interestingly, if Axl got back together with Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven and said, "Screw it, we're not the same, we're gonna give ourselves a new band name for this go around", most would still consider the newly named band Guns N Roses because of the musicians involved.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Turn_It_Up

[Sixes]

Twisted Sister and Dee Snider suck. Just an awful band, imo

That is my contribution

Guess they don't pass the dance floor test

[tinyrobot]

So you believe it is the name and brand that matters, not the actual musicians?

When I say No Slash=No GNR, I mean it in the same way No Axl=No GNR. If in the 90's, Axl had been the one to walk away and the remaining guys had pulled in Cornell, as good as that might've been musically, still not GNR for the vast majority of fans.

And just because Axl's able to pull in some amount of fans for shows doesn't mean many consider the band GNR.

Names mean nothing without the people behind them. But more interestingly, if Axl got back together with Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven and said, "Screw it, we're not the same, we're gonna give ourselves a new band name for this go around", most would still consider the newly named band Guns N Roses because of the musicians involved.

You think Apple Inc. is not Apple Inc. just because Steve Jobs died and Tim Cook is fronting it now? That is a reduced vision to have!

Regardless of what I believe, you may consider that Axl Rose is still alive!!! He's the one carrying the GN'R flag now and it doesn't matter if Slash is not there, because there are millions of people who love Axl and support him. If the case was Axl dead and Slash gone, then yeah, you don't have Gn'R anymore.

It doesn't matter who do not consider the actual Gn'R as Gn'R because those people are not the ones who attend the shows or buy the albums. Why should anyone care?

It's like saying non-Bieber fans think Bieber is a fraud... Who the hell cares if there are millions of people thinking Bieber is a fraud when there are other millions of fans attending his shows and buying his music.

Focusing on the negative, seeing the glass half-empty is what leads to flaw logic.

Guns N' Roses exist whether some people like it or not. The ones who don't like it, have already walked away and are now probably buying someone else albums. It's not a loss. There will always be new generations of listeners because GN'R is a classic band now.

[majormayhem]

But, Apple is releasing new products all the time. They don't keep reissuing the 2Gs.

[Val22]

I met Dee and I like him, but no way was Twisted Sister ever as great as GNR.

GNR had their time, it ended, everyone has moved on. To continue to blame Axl for the breakup is shit, because everyone in the band was in a fucked up stage of their life. If GNR hadn't broken up, Slash, Izzy, and Duff probably would have died.

Drugs and alcohol were killing them all. Axl had the balls to end it. Enough said, can we move on? If some of you don't like the new GNR, then don't. Axl doesn't seem to care, nor do Slash, Duff and Izzy. They all seem to like the lives and the money they all have now.

[Apollo]

I met Dee and I like him, but no way was Twisted Sister ever as great as GNR.

GNR had their time, it ended, everyone has moved on. To continue to blame Axl for the breakup is shit, because everyone in the band was in a fucked up stage of their life. If GNR hadn't broken up, Slash, Izzy, and Duff probably would have died.

Drugs and alcohol were killing them all. Axl had the balls to end it. Enough said, can we move on? If some of you don't like the new GNR, then don't. Axl doesn't seem to care, nor do Slash, Duff and Izzy. They all seem to like the lives and the money they all have now.

Nobody ever said that Twisted Sister was a better band than GnR. Snider didn't say or imply that his band was better than GnR.

Dee wasn't blaming Axl for the break-up.

Axl had the balls to end it? I thought Duff, Izzy and Slash all quit? And that Axl wanted them all to come back?

Twisted Sister is well respected within the rock world and more importantly by their peers.

Is this true? Not trying to call you out, Groghs. I honestly have no idea.

Yeah, they were. Their popularity didn't last long but they were huge for a brief time and as Groghan said, Dee was the major figure in the Tipper Gore/PMRC thing. He basically was rock music's representative against the government trying to censor lyrics and such.

In the hard rock world at the time, TS and Quiet Riot crossed over to the mainstream with their albums Stay Hungry and Metal Health respectively and TS's videos for We're Not Gonna Take It and I Wanna Rock are iconic to the time and are considered game changers to an extent of the music video back then and how it was evolving.

TS and QR are 2 are the major bands that brought hard rock to the forefront in the 80's, for better or worse, depending on your tastes. Both bands definitely laid the groundwork for later bands, including GNR, to be accepted into the mainstream.

QFT again.

[moreblack]

There will always be new generations of listeners because GN'R is a classic band now.

Not this lineup, not this era. Fans will always love GNR up to a certain year. Most likely the year Slash and the others left. And a few will appreciate the later stuff, but nowhere near the same amount.

[Free Bird]

Most people go the opposite way of you. Most aren't fans of a band name or brand, but are fans of the musicians themselves.

With Guns, it was always gonna be No Slash=No GNR to most fans.

The actual musicians are the ONLY thing that matter and Nu-Guns never came close to passing the smell test...

Where did you get from that MOST fans think No Slash=No GNR?

If that was the case, there wouldn't be so many people attending GN'R shows even after 20 years of Slash long gone.

There are lots of people who like and appreciate the nu-Guns line-up and actually, Guns N' Roses as a whole dysfunctional band to the max, still works in a great dysfunctional sense. What do I mean? GN'R fans attend nu-Guns show, Slash shows, Duff shows, Gilby shows.... It's like the band, all dismembered as it is, it's still working as a desintegrated whole, if that makes any sense.

Slash came to Argentina with his band, played with Duff and Gilby and the audience was chanting GUNS N' ROSES to them. He got kinda pissed off, but that shows the fans will go follow GN'R and its ex-members wherever they go, and that's a good thing after all!

So you believe it is the name and brand that matters, not the actual musicians?

When I say No Slash=No GNR, I mean it in the same way No Axl=No GNR. If in the 90's, Axl had been the one to walk away and the remaining guys had pulled in Cornell, as good as that might've been musically, still not GNR for the vast majority of fans.

And just because Axl's able to pull in some amount of fans for shows doesn't mean many consider the band GNR.

Names mean nothing without the people behind them. But more interestingly, if Axl got back together with Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven and said, "Screw it, we're not the same, we're gonna give ourselves a new band name for this go around", most would still consider the newly named band Guns N Roses because of the musicians involved.

That's the point. I can't understand people try to argue with that.

It's not a matter of opinions or musical taste. You can like one line-up more than the other but you can't say it's the same band, because it isn't, regardless of the name. It doesn't work that way. You can't just hire a random guy with a cylinder and a Les Paul and pretend it's GNR. It doesn't work just because your new bass player has some punk roots or your rhythm guitarist has the same hairstyle like your old one.

You can like the new band, that's up to you, but it's obviously a different band with the same name. That's all. Your old band mates were just too important.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Free Bird

[Mr. Dude]

I met Dee and I like him, but no way was Twisted Sister ever as great as GNR.

GNR had their time, it ended, everyone has moved on. To continue to blame Axl for the breakup is shit, because everyone in the band was in a fucked up stage of their life. If GNR hadn't broken up, Slash, Izzy, and Duff probably would have died.

Drugs and alcohol were killing them all. Axl had the balls to end it. Enough said, can we move on? If some of you don't like the new GNR, then don't. Axl doesn't seem to care, nor do Slash, Duff and Izzy. They all seem to like the lives and the money they all have now.

I agree. That's a fact that is often over-looked. Axl literally saved these guys even though it would have been far easier and far more profitable for him to look the other way while those guys killed themselves to keep the whole thing going. Axl should be commended for sacrificing his own self-interest for the general welfare of his old bandmates.

[Free Bird]

That was sarcasm, wasn't it?

[DR DOOM]

I met Dee and I like him, but no way was Twisted Sister ever as great as GNR.

GNR had their time, it ended, everyone has moved on. To continue to blame Axl for the breakup is shit, because everyone in the band was in a fucked up stage of their life. If GNR hadn't broken up, Slash, Izzy, and Duff probably would have died.

Drugs and alcohol were killing them all. Axl had the balls to end it. Enough said, can we move on? If some of you don't like the new GNR, then don't. Axl doesn't seem to care, nor do Slash, Duff and Izzy. They all seem to like the lives and the money they all have now.

I agree. That's a fact that is often over-looked. Axl literally saved these guys even though it would have been far easier and far more profitable for him to look the other way while those guys killed themselves to keep the whole thing going. Axl should be commended for sacrificing his own self-interest for the general welfare of his old bandmates.

Yep, Axl was even so accommodating of their drinking and drugging as to selflessly postpone taking to the stage for hours and hours so they could get wasted.

[tinyrobot]

But, Apple is releasing new products all the time. They don't keep reissuing the 2Gs.

The modern reincarnation of GNR released Chinse Democracy. Some people like it, some people don't. That album and the NuGNR exist, regardless of what a bunch of toxic people think or do not think about it.

[jbhutto]

Dee's gonna burn in hell for what he's said about GnR

[Nosaj Thing]

Drugs and alcohol were killing them all. Axl had the balls to end it. Enough said, can we move on?

No, we can't move on because you're trying to rewrite history. Axl didn't save anyone and he never had the balls to do anything. The guy hid, isolated himself from pretty much everyone from band members to the general public. He ruined his own future.

[DR DOOM]

Dee's gonna burn in hell for what he's said about GnR

He might even find himself Under The Blade