1999 album?

[wasted]

I suppose Street of Dreams is the pinnacle of the planes n intracies where each part needs to be played just right.

This I Love really feels like a ghost from the past. Robins solo is pretty futuristic though.

Chi dem sounds like a Nirvana riff produced by RATM but in the verses it's Jungle guitar under the vocal. Same with Better, it's like SCOM meets NIN but that's the Jungle vocal.

[Rovim]

I suppose Street of Dreams is the pinnacle of the planes n intracies where each part needs to be played just right.

This I Love really feels like a ghost from the past. Robins solo is pretty futuristic though.

Chi dem sounds like a Nirvana riff produced by RATM but in the verses it's Jungle guitar under the vocal. Same with Better, it's like SCOM meets NIN but that's the Jungle vocal.

Some reviewer thought Catcher was a reworking of Yesterdays. I hear it. With some Beatles shout outs and Queen.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Rovim

[wasted]

Chi dem sounds like a Nirvana riff produced by RATM but in the verses it's Jungle guitar under the vocal. Same with Better, it's like SCOM meets NIN but that's the Jungle vocal.

Catcher is like a remake of One in a Million mixed with the classic rockness of Yesterdays.

I heard Used to Love Her in Riad. It's a sawing vibe. Chopping up bodies.

[DieselDaisy]

Do you two just pick totally random songs (GN'R or otherwise) and place them against cd's songs? I mean, ''Catcher...a remake of One in a Million''!!

[wasted]

I can hear Catcher as an acoustic song and it has this Lies feel. It has that Manson vibe. It's a liberal baiting song. It's actually the vocal he's singing similar in verses and the chorus. Also the chorus is a comment on the verse.

Edited April 13, 2015 by wasted

[Rovim]

I guess one of the things that I really like about Chinese is that it's a big melting pot of so many influences, making it all work in the Guns context.

AFD was like that, but not that many influences, just the essential hard rock thing.

[wasted]

It's sounds mostly like GNR. But how they got those songs to sound GNR. The dynamics, vocal melody and vocal I guess.

[J Dog]

But the mystery is which tracks were ready. Was Better the champion in 99? Maybe not I'd say Chi dem, the Blues, Madagascar were the singles. Other songs came into their own. Freese said he had 4 A listed songs at some point.

CD...the Blues...Maddy...TWAT...Catcher...IRS...Riad...Oh My God...Silkworms?

Atlas Shrugged, The General possibly. Maybe Prositute in a less drum programming way.

Leave Me Alone, Seven, Zodiac, Thyme? Some Beltrami so was done with CD Beltrami tracks after 99.

I feel like Scraped and Sorry even Shacklers and IFW were from later and finished with Better around 2004.

This I Love was brought back in 2007.

This could have been the spine of the 99 record, it's enough for a record.

Oh My God

Silkworms

Chi dem

The Blues

There was a Time

Riad

IRS

Madagascar

Catcher

Then slot in tracks finished later like

Or CD II

Better

Shacklers

If the World

Scraped

Sorry

Atlas Shrugged

The General

This I Love

Prostitute

could be ready in some form.

I have no idea when Prostitute was recorded, but wasn't that one of the first leaked titles? Remember that list of rumored titles, like Oklahoma, Sucker Punch, Jackie Chan, I'm pretty sure Prostitute was on the list. So there had to be something there at that time.

So throw in Prostitute, that's 10. TIL and The General are two others that have been around for awhile in some shape or form. So say those two were ready, there's 12 songs there. If you want to throw in two more, whatever was ready.

All the songs were a little less stiff in the early form. Someone threw the word grungy out there. I can see that. The song CD, back in those early live versions, had much more of a, I want to say punk attitude, mostly from Axl's vocals I think, been awhile since I heard it. This is a strange choice of words considering how over produced CD is, but a '99 album would have been more raw. With the exception of Oh My God and Silkworms, it's a pretty good progression from UYI.

[wasted]

I have a feeling Prostitute had a 99-2004 timeline. Brain may have taken it next level.

[wasted]

Kind of wrong. Source: my own review..

"Prostitute" - (1998-2000)

[Rovim]

Kind of wrong. Source: my own review..

"Prostitute" - (1998-2000)

Prostitute was touched by Moby. Dat outro.

A very unique song imo. Bucket's solos are bluesy as hell. Especially the first one.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Rovim

[wasted]

Kind of wrong. Source: my own review..

"Prostitute" - (1998-2000)

Prostitute was touched by Moby. Dat outro.

A very unique song imo. Bucket's solos are bluesy as hell. Especially the first one.

It's a unique song lyrically and sonically. It's very unlike GNR production wise, drum oriented.

It's like Unfinished sympathy by Massive Atttack? I think that's what it called. With Verves Bittersweet Symphony. It's rocked out and epic. Masterpiece really the perfect rendition of Axls soul.

[Rovim]

Kind of wrong. Source: my own review..

"Prostitute" - (1998-2000)

Prostitute was touched by Moby. Dat outro.

A very unique song imo. Bucket's solos are bluesy as hell. Especially the first one.

It's a unique song lyrically and sonically. It's very unlike GNR production wise, drum oriented.

It's like Unfinished sympathy by Massive Atttack? I think that's what it called. With Verves Bittersweet Symphony. It's rocked out and epic. Masterpiece really the perfect rendition of Axls soul.

What were people expecting? I don't see a major flaw with the album really. Was Guns not always about excess? Axl took care of the quality of the guitars, but some people seem to have trouble with how versatile the record is.

I guess it's more varied, but it's still a Guns album without Slash and Paul instead of Izzy.

I hope Prostitute is just the start of a rainbow of songs that sound fresh with new elements with Axl's melodies, voice, and fun themes dictating the approach.

It's much better then some dated rehash of the same ideas.

[Teroz]

Some songs would have been better I'm sure. For example Madagascar was ruined totally by over-production, those wonderful guitar parts are iffy as there is like 34 tracks at the same time.

BUT I fear that 1999 album would have had some weird industrial vibes/songs on it like Silkworms. But on the other hand I would have wanted the album then and another in a few years etc rather than this path that he has chosen.

[wasted]

It's not expectation, it's more of a want.

I guess just the same thing again. Clink, Slash, hard rock. Slash solo seems fine with most folks.

Most wouldn't think Think Tank is a great Blur album. But it's one of best to listen to. It drops all the mockney ferret 3rd person characters and just does great songs. But it's not seen as prime Blur.

[EvH]

I think Protools existing was the biggest burden to this album - Axl editing Brian May's solo to the point where Brian didn't even recognize it was absolutely inexcusable.

I wonder if the demo that leaked of Catcher was Brian's solo as he played it, or one of Axl's edits?

The solo on the leaked Catcher demo is Axl and his engineer taking a throwaway take of Brian as Axl called it and rebuilding it really. That's the version that was unrecognized to Brian when he first heard it according to Axl.

And it is excusable imo: the solo on the demo is great.

You don't "rebuild" a solo by Brian May. As another great guitarist once said, "don't touch it".

[Strange Broue]

This Ezrin guy is one of the few sane characters in the saga of this disaster "Round Two" of Axl's.

What he said is 100% true: there are some glints of greatness on ChiDem, but it really was painted over way too many times, sonically. As an audio engineer and freelance producer, I agree totally.

And I love how this guy didn't fall on his knees and worship Axl the way so many characters in the story did. Just read that letter which Doug wrote to Axl. It's like a former slave begging to come back to his master. He all but gave him fellatio in that letter.

Meanwhile, Ezrin said, here's thirty minutes of my time. My girl is making dinner, and that's more important than you, Axl.

A lot of people on the forums would do well to adopt a bit of that attitude too.

I lol'd at your comment, because at the end of the day what is exactly Ezrin achieved? nothing

Just more delaying and more over producing. You can not convince Axl, that is a fact.

If he would sucks Axl's nuts, perhaps we would have an album in 2000 or 2001 and maybe Axl see that his vision is not really THAT great... and change ways somehow...

and yeah it's cool that a fucking dinner and his girl is more important to him...but it has nothing to do with what you said. he was just hungry

[Strange Broue]

So I read here that Axl was good to go and rdy to release an album in 1999 2000? And one of the dudes they got to work with him I forget which basically said this kinda sucks only one or two decent tunes. At that moment we as fans were fuked lol for years to come. What songs do we know to be 100% completed at that point?

Basically someone plz tell me what that album was to our knowledge.

IRS, TWAT and Catcher leaked in their 1999/2000 versions. Which, incidentally, are MUCH better imo than the CD versions. Judging by the live shows from 2001 CD, The Blues (SOD), Madagascar and Rhiad were also ready to go by then.

That's 7 songs. IMO catcher and twat are among the top songs on Chinese. so if those were better in 2000 I bet they could carry an album. Add a more striped down the blues and that's 3 rly cool songs. Irs has the chance to be a solid rocker maddy is maddy some like it some don't solid album track CD was shorter and I hear people say it was better in pre album form. Rhiad is album filler. Add two more album filler type rockers (maybe you get a good simple rocker) and you got an album probably of the same quality that we got or better (if you believe in the leaks superiority)

one more thing. No Love Remains (aka Jackie Chan) came from those tape... so we would probably got that song too (a good rocker i suppose)

and Atlas Shrugged, because Axl talks about that song on an interview

[Strange Broue]

Indeed, and that's kinda the point of this thread to look at how not getting the album out in 2000 screwed Axl and more importantly screwed over us gnr fans. In his mind his project was done, he was happy with the art he created, and someone went and shit on it. (wasn't that bad what ezrin told him but this is axl rose so something that simple gets taken to heart in a mind like his)

The fact he went to Ezrin in the first place shows he was not completely sure of himself. If he had 100% faith in the material, he would have released it in 2000. Instead, he took RTB's suggestions to rerecord the same parts over and over again as Tommy said, and also probably thought Ezrin was right about not enough album-worthy material being there (Better probably didn't have vocals until 2006, Shackler's definitely didn't have any until at least '07).

I think he had enough for a 8-10 song album? Also I thought he specifically went to ezrin wanting him to mix the album? Shacklers is not needed it's cool but has a small population which will like it. Better is awesome but could have been the second albums single. Sorry isn't gona be a hit neither was scraped or ITW. It seems to me the core of the first album was already done in 2000. Is sorry itw better shack TIL worth 8 years of wait?

TIL was done in the end of the 90's and that is the oldest Axl song since 1993...

Axl mentioned on an interview(or a show i can't remember exactly) that they would be playing some deeper cuts from the album, songs that were not intended for singles etc. That is why we got Silkworms for example. Rhiad was completely dropped after 2002 etc.

[Strange Broue]

I suppose Street of Dreams is the pinnacle of the planes n intracies where each part needs to be played just right.

This I Love really feels like a ghost from the past. Robins solo is pretty futuristic though.

Chi dem sounds like a Nirvana riff produced by RATM but in the verses it's Jungle guitar under the vocal. Same with Better, it's like SCOM meets NIN but that's the Jungle vocal.

Chi Dem riff was wrote by Freese, fyi

That is why it's so grungy...wrote by a drummer who probably plays loose/sloppy guitar riffs when he is not on the drums, lol

Kind of wrong. Source: my own review..

"Prostitute" - (1998-2000)

Prostitute was touched by Moby. Dat outro.

A very unique song imo. Bucket's solos are bluesy as hell. Especially the first one.

It's a unique song lyrically and sonically. It's very unlike GNR production wise, drum oriented.

It's like Unfinished sympathy by Massive Atttack? I think that's what it called. With Verves Bittersweet Symphony. It's rocked out and epic. Masterpiece really the perfect rendition of Axls soul.

i think it's the worst song on CD ,even worse than Scraped or Rhiad

Some strong vocal parts here and there, but overall that song is a fucking chaotic turd especially the shitty, dated drum intro, but yeah the ending was not bad

[wasted]

The problem is Axl kind of took what Ezrin said to heart?

Oh my God

Silkworms

Chinese Democracy

The Blues

There was a Time

Catcher in the Rye

Riad n the Bedouins

IRS

Madagascar

Atlas Shrugged

Prostitute

Must have been the 13 track album that was sited really early.

[Rovim]

I think Protools existing was the biggest burden to this album - Axl editing Brian May's solo to the point where Brian didn't even recognize it was absolutely inexcusable.

I wonder if the demo that leaked of Catcher was Brian's solo as he played it, or one of Axl's edits?

The solo on the leaked Catcher demo is Axl and his engineer taking a throwaway take of Brian as Axl called it and rebuilding it really. That's the version that was unrecognized to Brian when he first heard it according to Axl.

And it is excusable imo: the solo on the demo is great.

You don't "rebuild" a solo by Brian May. As another great guitarist once said, "don't touch it".

Why not try everything? why limit yourself. I guess I'm not a purist when it comes to how to get results in the studio. The outcome is what matters in the end, even if I understand why it would seem shitty to fuck with Brian's work. But maybe Axl wanted a very specific thing out of him to not use.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Rovim

[wasted]

As I understand May didn't do a complete solo. Axl combined some parts into a solo which Brian didn't like or recognise so they didn't use it.

[Rovim]

As I understand May didn't do a complete solo. Axl combined some parts into a solo which Brian didn't like or recognise so they didn't use it.

Pretty much. Axl also said in the trunk interview in 2006 that there was a chance the quality of those recordings were not good enough to use.

There was negativity from Brian and some people on the forums when it leaked. It wasn't like "shit, what a classic sounding Queen solo it works perfectly".

I think Axl cares a lot about what people think about his music. Too much maybe.

[wasted]

I think he was trying to respect Brian as well.