ludurigan Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ok...I was on a thread about Izzy (http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/212092-izzy-recent-sighting-at-rolling-stones-concert/page-6#entry3996998) then I made a comment about how boring I find Buckethead solos... Then Gackt told me (via this ) that I should know better (or something to that effect)Then I asked him to please show me just ONE song from Buckethead that is HALF as good as a GNR song.And then I made a point to listen to that song.Gackt didnt answer me yet. Maybe he will answer later. But ZoSoRose suggested 3 songs.And I made a point to listen to the first one he suggested, Padmasana.This... Padmasana has 11 minuters. I just listened to 9 minutes of Padmasana. I must admit that I gave up on the 9th minute once I realized that Buckethead was not gonna change the chord sequence and that he was just gonna keep on soloing over it like he did on the previous nine minutes. Bucket seemed to enjoy that a lot. I did not. But that doesnt really matter. Its his song, not mine.After listening to Padmasana, or should I say after listening to 80% of Padmasana, I have learned that Buckethead can play less than 18 notes per second. I was under the impression that he just could not restrain himself from playing at least 18 notes per second after listening to him playing GNR solos onstage with Axl Rose. I was wrong.Now I have a question for you guys.Is Padmassana a song or a solo?To me, after one incomplete listen, I can say that it is not really a song. It seems to be much more a solo -- a long 11 minutes solo -- than a song. Yeah. Nice melodies, nice guitar tone at times, but also feels like elevator music at times. Yeah. A long guitar solo played over a never-ending loop of the same chord sequence for 11 minutes. Right? Is that an accurate description of it? Please let me know if you disagree.Based on this song (?) (solo?) Padmasana, I wonder if all Buckethead songs are similar to that. Are all Buckethead songs actually a long guitar solo played over the loop of one chord sequence?. Are they all like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Yeah, it's a bit of a snoozefest isn't it? Give me Ron fucking Thal any day of the week. At least his music is more than looped phrases for nine minutes with a touch of guitar noodling. Although I am partial to Bucket's Nottingham Lace - that was a good'un. Edited July 30, 2015 by Towelie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Is this a song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatashame Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) it's a work of that, that's what it isand it's musicI'm sure you're not limited to 3-4 mins radio frendly songs, structured with a formula of a verse, verse,chorus, verse, bridge, chorus, fade.I would love to recommend you more tracks of Buckethead,the thing is, you shouldn't ask for specific tracks.Buckethead drops a new album every three days, it's impossible to single out too many tracksand also it's not unsual for him to release a box of 13 CDs of ALL new material, naming tracks CD1 TRACK 01, CD1 TRACK 02, CD1 TRACK 03, etcI think you either get it or you don't,the main difference between,say, GNR's Sorry, Estranged or Nov Rain is that they absord your attention and you , as stupid as it sounds, LISTEN to them, follow the lyrics, picture the story in your head (some GNR lyrics are narratives)the subjective genius I find in BH's music is that his songs listen to methey serve as a background to my running thoughtsthey fit my moodthey are the soundtrack to MY movie, not Axl'sand you can't mock his songs being "not songs, just solos" - you'd have to say the same about Chopin and Mozart for that matter Edited July 30, 2015 by whatashame 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Don't try to define it, cause it doesn't really matter. Some forms of music are less structured. Take jazz for example: there's a beginning, improvisation, and an end. The structure is basically, at least on some level, an excuse to improvise.Bucket really likes to improvise and the guitar takes a center in whatever comes out of him creatively when he records his music.He's comfortable and quite fond of finding simple patterns, a chord progression or a riff and just improvise on top of it. He's one of those musicians that have like an open channel with whatever music comes out of them, but while he does have more structured songs and even songs with guest vocals on them, if you're looking for proper songs, that's not the place for it imo. At least it's not what Bucket's focus is on.If it doesn't make you feel anything, then you've got your answer right there. I think his concepts are very unique, he developed his own thing and that's what he does. Edited July 30, 2015 by Rovim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gackt Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Słash Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 He was born in a coop, raised in a cage. Children fear him, critics rage.Hes half alive, he's half dead. Folks just call him buckethead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakDown2014 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 It's a song with a big solo. Why wouldn't it be a song? For the amount of material he has released you can't blame the guy for doing big solos.... Man, Axl and him could have been one of the best partnerships of all time... hope we get to hear more songs on CD II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gackt Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 If we're talking big solos, there's quite a few Buckethead tracks with a triple-XL solo in triple-A quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Ok...Please actually watch/listen, some may take a minute or two to kick in... Edited July 31, 2015 by DR DOOM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Bird Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Man, Axl and him could have been one of the best partnerships of all time... hope we get to hear more songs on CD IIAxl had one of the best partnerships of all time, already. You know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakDown2014 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Man, Axl and him could have been one of the best partnerships of all time... hope we get to hear more songs on CD IIAxl had one of the best partnerships of all time, already. You know?You mean with Izzy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Bird Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I'm sure you are well aware of whom I mean. We in the fan forums know the importance of Izzy but that's not the case for the general rock fan. For the elementary GNR sound you need Axl and Slash. That's the partnership I was talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Yeah, it's a bit of a snoozefest isn't it? Give me Ron fucking Thal any day of the week. At least his music is more than looped phrases for nine minutes with a touch of guitar noodling. Although I am partial to Bucket's Nottingham Lace - that was a good'un. wow, the guitar tone, drums etc sound really similar to many songs on Chinese Democracythis one at least feels like a song. it has some dynamic, it changes, it evolves, etcnice stuff on it, but the riffs and the groove are too mechanic for my taste (is it brain on drums?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Hey, did you watch/listen to the 4 songs I linked?Alive version of Nottingham Lace was one of them, it's pretty fucking incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Is this a song? i guess so.nice solo(s) by the way.i like when he plays like this.does buckethead plays all instruments on this track?are there other people playing on this track?the drums seem to be pre-recorded at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) I'm sure you're not limited to 3-4 mins radio frendly songs, structured with a formula of a verse, verse,chorus, verse, bridge, chorus, fade. Coma is a proof that you can create a brilliant song and you dont need to use that formulaic structure. Rime of the Ancient Mariner is another example Buckethead drops a new album every three days, it's impossible to single out too many tracks I dont know any other musician that releases as much music as Buckethead.Its obvious to see how Buckethead is able to drop an album every three days.It is not because he is a talented freak.But because he decided to do it.If you consider that a solo over a chord sequence is a song, then it is pretty easy to create a 10-songs album in less than a day.Any musician that is capable to create a chord sequence and able to solo over it will just tell you that.If Buckethead is a talented freak or not, it has nothing to do with his ability to release an album like that.And if the album resulting from that will be a good album or not is also another story...You can ask other questions.Why is there nobody else doing this?Is it because other artists think they are not good enough to do it?Is it because they like to work on the music to make it more identifiable? To turn music ideas into songs?Is it because they never tried to do this and they dont know how much fun it is?Other question -- would you like other bands and artists to do the same as Buckethead does? Would you like GNR to do it? Axl? Izzy? Slash? Duff? Steven?I would love thatIf these guys were releasing as much music as Buckethead, Id be very, very happy, and id listen to it all.I understand that someone that enjoys Buckethead music must be very very happy with the fact that he is able to release so much music. and you can't mock his songs being "not songs, just solos" - you'd have to say the same about Chopin and Mozart for that matter I am not familiar with Chopin and Mozart but as far as I know their music have very identifiable melodies, doesnt it? A melody that you can remember and identify. Padmasana doesnt seem to have any of that, it sounds like a long improv solo to me. Of course that if you listen to it many times you can memorize it but it is not the same.Its like the huge difference between Slash solos on GNR and Slash solos now.Slash solos in GNR are like hooks (someone said that recently, I cant remember who it was), they are part of the song, they are very identifiable.Slash solos in more recent years sound like Padmasana in the sense that they are not memorable or identifiable at all Edited August 2, 2015 by ludurigan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Slash solos in GNR are like hooks (someone said that recently, I cant remember who it was), they are part of the song, they are very identifiable.Slash solos in more recent years sound like Padmasana in the sense that they are not memorable or identifiable at allWhich is interesting.... it's almost like the more proficient someone gets as a guitarist the worse their solos become. They rely more on a zillion notes per second and being flashy and self indulgent, whereas Slash couldn't really do that in the early GNR days, hence why his solos relied more on their melodic content. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule (you couldn't exactly hum the end solo to Paradise City for example), but for the most part I'd agree with you that his GNR solos were almost like hooks unto themselves. Listen to the end solo to Nightrain, or November Rain, Estranged, The Garden, Rocket Queen, Coma, Don't Cry, SCOM, Knockin On Heavens Door, Civil War... you could hum these solos just as easily as you could hum Axl's melody lines.I can't think of one solo from his SMK&TC albums that is distinct or memorable in the slightest. VR had a few, particularly You Got No Right and Messages which both had brilliant solos. But these days Slash takes a more BH approach with his lead playing, fast and furious with nothing particularly memorable or identifiable to speak of. Edited August 2, 2015 by Towelie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 i guess so.nice solo(s) by the way.i like when he plays like this.does buckethead plays all instruments on this track?are there other people playing on this track?the drums seem to be pre-recorded at times Buckethead handles guitars and bass, Travis Dickerson on keyboards and usually Brain or Pinchface on drums...not sure about Pinchface but Brain does programming too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Bird Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Slash solos in more recent years sound like Padmasana in the sense that they are not memorable or identifiable at allI don't agree.Solos of Halo, Anastasia, Far and Away, Wicked Stone, Shadow Life, Too Far Gone Savage Sun, Unholy are all superb and memorable as hell. Not to mention some solos of the self titeld, VR and Snakepit.What his music lacks is Izzy and Axl. Not riffs and solos. Edited August 2, 2015 by Free Bird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Slash solos in more recent years sound like Padmasana in the sense that they are not memorable or identifiable at allI don't agree.Solos of Halo, Anastasia, Far and Away, Wicked Stone, Shadow Life, Too Far Gone Savage Sun, Unholy are all superb and memorable as hell. Not to mention some solos of the self titeld, VR and Snakepit.What his music lacks is Izzy and Axl. Not riffs and solos.You are rightThing is I dont really listen to Slash music these days because of Myles. His vocals are really annoying. I cant understand how Slash can handle listening to this guys voice. I just listened to some of the songs you mentioned and his solos are more like you described (and not like I described).You are absolutely right, Slash still has got great riffs and ideas and solos all over his songs. The problem is that Myles is just killing all the fun on them. Yeah, Slash needs Izzy and Axl. Or maybe just Izzy.i guess so.nice solo(s) by the way.i like when he plays like this.does buckethead plays all instruments on this track?are there other people playing on this track?the drums seem to be pre-recorded at times Buckethead handles guitars and bass, Travis Dickerson on keyboards and usually Brain or Pinchface on drums...not sure about Pinchface but Brain does programming toothanks fo the info 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 lots of riffs and licks on those 3 trackssome of the robotic (i dont know a better word for it) riffs and some of the robotic (again) guitar tone (which are both present on Chinese Democracy) sounds very annoying for my tastebut that doesnt really matteranyway, i have a questionI just heard soothsayerand I think soothsayer its way more melodic and more rocking than these 3 tracksvery simple, very rocking track (a bit repetitive chord sequence if you ask me, but cool anyway) with a nice and melodic and recognizable solo (solos) on it and i think that kind of music is somewhat similar to GNR and I think that it would fit axl style perfectly.I can clearly picture axl singing all over that track. I can almost hear him actually. there is room to sing over that riffbut apparently soothsayer is not a classic, typical buckethead track -- from what I have heard so far, which is probably not even 1% of his music, soothsayer seems to be a very atypical song on the buckethead catalogand it looks like these 3 tracks are more of what youd call classic & typical bucketheadis that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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