Ultimate Guitar: Reunion with Axl, Slash, Duff, Richard, Frank

[Asia]

Jesus, sometimes I find it hard to believe what I'm reading. And I'm beginning to understand way better why Axl hates his fans and treats them like shit. Because they're a bunch of whining, moaning, grumpy, frustrated assholes who will never be pleased no matter what. No, they will always get into their whiny, critical tone and throw their little insults. Hell, I don't fucking get it!

Who the fuck cares about Steven? A drummer whose last moment of clarity was probably around 1987 at best. Who has never composed a note. Who was never close to bright and who after 30 years of constant abuse is a degenerated, brainless wreck with an intellectual level matching that of an average nine year old. Plus, he's still a junkie. That guy can't even talk sense for 5 minutes, let alone handle a tour. The idea of having him back would be suicidal on every fucking level. He'd ruin the whole thing within a week if not sooner.

Who cares about Izzy? Well, maybe a few naive romantics here who believe that being irresponsible, totally unreliable, still more moody than Axl and getting his ass out every time there's a little problem cause solving that problem would be too much fuss is so fucking cool. No it's not cool! It is what it is, irreponsible, selfish and immature. Why on earth would anyone take with them a guy who might just as well decide one week later that, after all, he prefers walking the dog in the corn right now and wants to go home unless he gets 5 milion dollars more? Well, that's the way Izzy likes to play things out. Not to mention that we don't even know how sober he is, he obviously wasn't in 93. Sorry, but reunion is serious business and for any business to have any chance of success, what you need most are realiabe people you can count on. Izzy's proven many times he ain't one of those.

Plus the whole legend and meaning that is now so trendy to attach to Izzy is just insane. The guy wrote three songs for their second album and never even cared about these songs. The rest were Axl and Slash. And don't fucking tell me where Slash is undersigned because I don't give a fuck. Wether it's Estranged or November Rain or any tune you name, it would never be what it is without Slash's guitar. That is the sound of Guns'N'Roses - Axl's voice and Slash's guitar that fits and complements this voice like nothing else! If they were to record more songs like Coma and Estranged I don't fucking mind, I'm all for it, in fact I'd be happy as shit! Even if there's nothing like You Ain't the First there.... And I won't cry over 14 years either.

Anyone getting hysterical here that a reunion without Izzy and Steven (or without Matt and Gilby - who on earth gives a flying fuck about 2 session musicians rented for a couple of years??!) is not a reunion is fucking sick in the head. Fortunately, on a large scale, they're a minority. So, Axl or anyone involved, if you're reading this, which I'm pretty sure you're not cause that would be a real waste of time, just never mind. Most of us are normal in the end. Just not necessairily on these forums.

Full of factual errors - pertinent bits in bold. Firstly, Izzy has been sober since December 1989. Secondly, a list of songs written by Izzy Stradlin immediately destroys most of your other points,

(solo)

Think About You

Used to Love Her

Patience

You Ain't the First

Double Talkin' Jibe

Pretty Tied Up

(collaborative)

Anything Goes

Nightrain

Out Ta Get Me

Mr Brownstone

Paradise City

My Michelle

Sweet Child O' Mine

You're Crazy

Reckless Life

Shadow of Your Love

Bad Apples

Perfect Crime

Right Next Door to Hell

Don't Crime

14 Years

You Could Be Mine

Dust N' Bones

6 solo accreditation and 17 collaborative. A lot more than the ''three songs for their second album'' you stated.

Lastly, Matt Sorum and Gilby Clarke were not hired as 'session musicians' but played the Use Your Illusion World Tour (1991-93) - Gilby missing 1991. That is 194 shows for Matt and 138 shows for Gilby! They were also ''rented'' for longer than ''a couple of years'' - Matt very much so. Sorum was a member from mid-1990 to April 1997, i.e. almost seven years!. Gilby was a member, late 1991 to June 1994, i.e. two and a half years.

Yeah, so that makes it wait: 9 songs out of which at least 2 date back to appetite and pre-appetite times and out of which I would only miss Double Talking Jive. That leaves 23 songs writeen and reeased without any input from Izzy, the best UYI stuff among them! I"m more than fine with that! And let's not discuss Appetite songs at all cause they were written in one room by everyone, I guess noone even knows who contributed what these days, a different incomparable reality.

It doesn't matter how long Matt and Gilby were there - what matters is that they meant NOTHING! They played what they were told to play and that's it. Chances are that Axl's shoe-cleaner is working for GNR even longer and yet reunion without him will be fine, just as without Matt or Gilby.

Oh, and was it Izzy's sobriety that made him play different songs then the rest of the guys on stage in 1993? So that they had to turn his amps down?

Edited November 22, 2015 by Asia

[Towelie]

Jesus, sometimes I find it hard to believe what I'm reading. And I'm beginning to understand way better why Axl hates his fans and treats them like shit. Because they're a bunch of whining, moaning, grumpy, frustrated assholes who will never be pleased no matter what. No, they will always get into their whiny, critical tone and throw their little insults. Hell, I don't fucking get it!

Who the fuck cares about Steven? A drummer whose last moment of clarity was probably around 1987 at best. Who has never composed a note. Who was never close to bright and who after 30 years of constant abuse is a degenerated, brainless wreck with an intellectual level matching that of an average nine year old. Plus, he's still a junkie. That guy can't even talk sense for 5 minutes, let alone handle a tour. The idea of having him back would be suicidal on every fucking level. He'd ruin the whole thing within a week if not sooner.

Who cares about Izzy? Well, maybe a few naive romantics here who believe that being irresponsible, totally unreliable, still more moody than Axl and getting his ass out every time there's a little problem cause solving that problem would be too much fuss is so fucking cool. No it's not cool! It is what it is, irreponsible, selfish and immature. Why on earth would anyone take with them a guy who might just as well decide one week later that, after all, he prefers walking the dog in the corn right now and wants to go home unless he gets 5 milion dollars more? Well, that's the way Izzy likes to play things out. Not to mention that we don't even know how sober he is, he obviously wasn't in 93. Sorry, but reunion is serious business and for any business to have any chance of success, what you need most are realiabe people you can count on. Izzy's proven many times he ain't one of those.

Plus the whole legend and meaning that is now so trendy to attach to Izzy is just insane. The guy wrote three songs for their second album and never even cared about these songs. The rest were Axl and Slash. And don't fucking tell me where Slash is undersigned because I don't give a fuck. Wether it's Estranged or November Rain or any tune you name, it would never be what it is without Slash's guitar. That is the sound of Guns'N'Roses - Axl's voice and Slash's guitar that fits and complements this voice like nothing else! If they were to record more songs like Coma and Estranged I don't fucking mind, I'm all for it, in fact I'd be happy as shit! Even if there's nothing like You Ain't the First there.... And I won't cry over 14 years either.

Anyone getting hysterical here that a reunion without Izzy and Steven (or without Matt and Gilby - who on earth gives a flying fuck about 2 session musicians rented for a couple of years??!) is not a reunion is fucking sick in the head. Fortunately, on a large scale, they're a minority. So, Axl or anyone involved, if you're reading this, which I'm pretty sure you're not cause that would be a real waste of time, just never mind. Most of us are normal in the end. Just not necessairily on these forums.

Full of factual errors - pertinent bits in bold. Firstly, Izzy has been sober since December 1989. Secondly, a list of songs written by Izzy Stradlin immediately destroys most of your other points,

(solo)

Think About You

Used to Love Her

Patience

You Ain't the First

Double Talkin' Jibe

Pretty Tied Up

(collaborative)

Anything Goes

Nightrain

Out Ta Get Me

Mr Brownstone

Paradise City

My Michelle

Sweet Child O' Mine

You're Crazy

Reckless Life

Shadow of Your Love

Bad Apples

Perfect Crime

Right Next Door to Hell

Don't Crime

14 Years

You Could Be Mine

Dust N' Bones

6 solo accreditation and 17 collaborative. A lot more than the ''three songs for their second album'' you stated.

Lastly, Matt Sorum and Gilby Clarke were not hired as 'session musicians' but played the Use Your Illusion World Tour (1991-93) - Gilby missing 1991. That is 194 shows for Matt and 138 shows for Gilby! They were also ''rented'' for longer than ''a couple of years'' - Matt very much so. Sorum was a member from mid-1990 to April 1997, i.e. almost seven years!. Gilby was a member, late 1991 to June 1994, i.e. two and a half years.

Doesn't change the fact that neither Matt Sorum or Gilby Clarke contributed a single note of original music to Guns N Roses, making them no more significant or important to GNR's legacy than DJ Ashba. They were the Frank Ferrer and DJ Ashba of 1992, but just so happened to be in the right place at the right time. You act as if the fact that they were on the UYI tour actually means something... you do realise any decent session musician could've played drums and covered Izzy's rhythm parts on that tour? It just so happened to be Matt Sorum and Gilby Clarke. They won the fucking lottery as far as session musicians go by getting to ride the tail end of GNR's glory days.

And, regardless of Izzy's contributions, if he doesn't want in then it's a moot point.

I do think it's worth noting that the songs Izzy wrote by himself are no way near as good as the ones Axl and Slash did alone. Apart from Patience, none of the solo songs you listed are a patch on November Rain, Locomotive, Estranged, Coma, Breakdown etc. It can't just be a coincidence that Izzy's best shit in GNR is the stuff that was collaborated on by the rest of the band. I'm not trying to take anything away from the man, but I think Axl and Slash would've made it with or without Izzy Stradlin, but I don't think Izzy would necessarily have done the same without Axl and Slash.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Towelie

[DieselDaisy]

Jesus, sometimes I find it hard to believe what I'm reading. And I'm beginning to understand way better why Axl hates his fans and treats them like shit. Because they're a bunch of whining, moaning, grumpy, frustrated assholes who will never be pleased no matter what. No, they will always get into their whiny, critical tone and throw their little insults. Hell, I don't fucking get it!

Who the fuck cares about Steven? A drummer whose last moment of clarity was probably around 1987 at best. Who has never composed a note. Who was never close to bright and who after 30 years of constant abuse is a degenerated, brainless wreck with an intellectual level matching that of an average nine year old. Plus, he's still a junkie. That guy can't even talk sense for 5 minutes, let alone handle a tour. The idea of having him back would be suicidal on every fucking level. He'd ruin the whole thing within a week if not sooner.

Who cares about Izzy? Well, maybe a few naive romantics here who believe that being irresponsible, totally unreliable, still more moody than Axl and getting his ass out every time there's a little problem cause solving that problem would be too much fuss is so fucking cool. No it's not cool! It is what it is, irreponsible, selfish and immature. Why on earth would anyone take with them a guy who might just as well decide one week later that, after all, he prefers walking the dog in the corn right now and wants to go home unless he gets 5 milion dollars more? Well, that's the way Izzy likes to play things out. Not to mention that we don't even know how sober he is, he obviously wasn't in 93. Sorry, but reunion is serious business and for any business to have any chance of success, what you need most are realiabe people you can count on. Izzy's proven many times he ain't one of those.

Plus the whole legend and meaning that is now so trendy to attach to Izzy is just insane. The guy wrote three songs for their second album and never even cared about these songs. The rest were Axl and Slash. And don't fucking tell me where Slash is undersigned because I don't give a fuck. Wether it's Estranged or November Rain or any tune you name, it would never be what it is without Slash's guitar. That is the sound of Guns'N'Roses - Axl's voice and Slash's guitar that fits and complements this voice like nothing else! If they were to record more songs like Coma and Estranged I don't fucking mind, I'm all for it, in fact I'd be happy as shit! Even if there's nothing like You Ain't the First there.... And I won't cry over 14 years either.

Anyone getting hysterical here that a reunion without Izzy and Steven (or without Matt and Gilby - who on earth gives a flying fuck about 2 session musicians rented for a couple of years??!) is not a reunion is fucking sick in the head. Fortunately, on a large scale, they're a minority. So, Axl or anyone involved, if you're reading this, which I'm pretty sure you're not cause that would be a real waste of time, just never mind. Most of us are normal in the end. Just not necessairily on these forums.

Full of factual errors - pertinent bits in bold. Firstly, Izzy has been sober since December 1989. Secondly, a list of songs written by Izzy Stradlin immediately destroys most of your other points,

(solo)

Think About You

Used to Love Her

Patience

You Ain't the First

Double Talkin' Jibe

Pretty Tied Up

(collaborative)

Anything Goes

Nightrain

Out Ta Get Me

Mr Brownstone

Paradise City

My Michelle

Sweet Child O' Mine

You're Crazy

Reckless Life

Shadow of Your Love

Bad Apples

Perfect Crime

Right Next Door to Hell

Don't Crime

14 Years

You Could Be Mine

Dust N' Bones

6 solo accreditation and 17 collaborative. A lot more than the ''three songs for their second album'' you stated.

Lastly, Matt Sorum and Gilby Clarke were not hired as 'session musicians' but played the Use Your Illusion World Tour (1991-93) - Gilby missing 1991. That is 194 shows for Matt and 138 shows for Gilby! They were also ''rented'' for longer than ''a couple of years'' - Matt very much so. Sorum was a member from mid-1990 to April 1997, i.e. almost seven years!. Gilby was a member, late 1991 to June 1994, i.e. two and a half years.

Yeah, so that makes it wait: 9 songs out of which at least 2 date back to appetite and pre-appetite times and out of which I would only miss Double Talking Jive. That leaves 23 songs writeen and reeased without any input from Izzy, the best UYI stuff among them! I"m more than fine with that! And let's not discuss Appetite songs at all cause they were written in one room by everyone, I guess noone even knows who contributed what these days, a different incomparable reality.

There are twenty-two songs, from 46 (I have removed the four covers) that have an Izzy Stradlin songwriting credit. There is also the b-side 'Shadow of Your Love'. You are letting your own subjectivity with your ''the best UYI stuff'' line dictate the facts - I mean 'Brownstone', 'Patience', 'You Could Be Mine' and 'Don't Cry' are not considered 'best' in popular parlance? If we compare Stradlin's Illusion songwriting to Slash's the difference is quite large. Stradlin had twelve Illusion credits (or 21% of the total credits) to Slash's 9 (16%)!

It doesn't matter how long Matt and Gilby were there - what matters is that they meant NOTHING! They played what they were told to play and that's it. Chances are that Axl's shoe-cleaner is working for GNR even longer and yet reunion without him will be fine, just as without Matt or Gilby.

Oh, and was it Izzy's sobriety that made him play different songs then the rest of the guys on stage in 1993? So that they had to turn his amps down?

Well Appetite and Illusion would certainly sound different without drums so that suggests their contributions meant something. I think you should go back to the drawing board on all of this as I have proven that Matt and Gilby were not merely 'session musicians' and I have demonstrated that Sorum was a band member for a lot longer than the mere ''two years'' you cited.

That last comment is Axl/Slash nonsense and can be dismissed as haughtily as all of those Axl 'Double Talkin' Jive' dedications, also from the same period.

Doesn't change the fact that neither Matt Sorum or Gilby Clarke contributed a single note of original music to Guns N Roses, making them no more significant or important to GNR's legacy than DJ Ashba.

By that same logic we should devalue every non-songwriting band member. This list would be very large indeed, including such luminaries as Charlie Watts, Mitch Mitchell, and Brian Jones, the founding member of the Rolling Stones!

I do think it's worth noting that the songs Izzy wrote by himself are no way near as good as the ones Axl and Slash did alone. Apart from Patience, none of the solo songs you listed are a patch on November Rain, Locomotive, Estranged, Coma, Breakdown etc. It can't just be a coincidence that Izzy's best shit in GNR is the stuff that was collaborated on by the rest of the band. I'm not trying to take anything away from the man, but I think Axl and Slash would've made it with or without Izzy Stradlin, but I don't think Izzy would necessarily have done the same without Axl and Slash.

Pure subjectivity. I happen to believe songs like 14 Years and DTJ crap all over the songs you listed.

[Towelie]

I do think it's worth noting that the songs Izzy wrote by himself are no way near as good as the ones Axl and Slash did alone. Apart from Patience, none of the solo songs you listed are a patch on November Rain, Locomotive, Estranged, Coma, Breakdown etc. It can't just be a coincidence that Izzy's best shit in GNR is the stuff that was collaborated on by the rest of the band. I'm not trying to take anything away from the man, but I think Axl and Slash would've made it with or without Izzy Stradlin, but I don't think Izzy would necessarily have done the same without Axl and Slash.

Pure subjectivity. I happen to believe songs like 14 Years and DTJ crap all over the songs you listed.

14 Years craps all over November Rain and Coma? Seriously? That's not subjectivity, it's stupidity.

[DieselDaisy]

I do think it's worth noting that the songs Izzy wrote by himself are no way near as good as the ones Axl and Slash did alone. Apart from Patience, none of the solo songs you listed are a patch on November Rain, Locomotive, Estranged, Coma, Breakdown etc. It can't just be a coincidence that Izzy's best shit in GNR is the stuff that was collaborated on by the rest of the band. I'm not trying to take anything away from the man, but I think Axl and Slash would've made it with or without Izzy Stradlin, but I don't think Izzy would necessarily have done the same without Axl and Slash.

Pure subjectivity. I happen to believe songs like 14 Years and DTJ crap all over the songs you listed.

14 Years craps all over November Rain and Coma? Seriously? That's not subjectivity, it's stupidity.

Well it is my opinion so you can lump it or leave. Coma is ponderous over-produced heavy metal. 14 Years has a marvelous incidental Stonesy quality, rather like a Let it Bleed outtake, like something you would find on Metamorphosis. Guess what band I like (clue, Dartford train station)?

Isn't subjectivity great?

[Słash]

Neve, I disagree with what you said, you actually sound like a member of TB would say. Its sad that where so many fans respect Izzy, but well there are fans like you who rant about him or Steven. DD was spot on in his post.

Those 5 guys made Guns N' Roses, each of their sound was unique. Its like you and your friend made a thing, a big invention which was successful, later on your friend kicks you and brings another person who contributed nothing, how would you feel?

Edited November 22, 2015 by Slash787

[Towelie]

I do think it's worth noting that the songs Izzy wrote by himself are no way near as good as the ones Axl and Slash did alone. Apart from Patience, none of the solo songs you listed are a patch on November Rain, Locomotive, Estranged, Coma, Breakdown etc. It can't just be a coincidence that Izzy's best shit in GNR is the stuff that was collaborated on by the rest of the band. I'm not trying to take anything away from the man, but I think Axl and Slash would've made it with or without Izzy Stradlin, but I don't think Izzy would necessarily have done the same without Axl and Slash.

Pure subjectivity. I happen to believe songs like 14 Years and DTJ crap all over the songs you listed.

14 Years craps all over November Rain and Coma? Seriously? That's not subjectivity, it's stupidity.

Well it is my opinion so you can lump it or leave. Coma is ponderous over-produced heavy metal. 14 Years has a marvelous incidental Stonesy quality, rather like a Let it Bleed outtake, like something you would find on Metamorphosis. Guess what band I like (clue, Dartford train station)?

Isn't subjectivity great?

Hey, I like 14 Years, and totally get the whole Stones-esque vibe it has going on and really like that element to GNR. I actually consider You Ain't The First one of the best songs on the UYI set, which is an out and out Stones-pastiche, so it's not like I don't 'get' that side of the band or the brilliance of what Izzy contributed. I just think it's a bit of a leap to say that songs like Coma and November Rain are crapped on by 14 Years.

[pacu44]

Jesus, sometimes I find it hard to believe what I'm reading. And I'm beginning to understand way better why Axl hates his fans and treats them like shit. Because they're a bunch of whining, moaning, grumpy, frustrated assholes who will never be pleased no matter what. No, they will always get into their whiny, critical tone and throw their little insults. Hell, I don't fucking get it!

Who the fuck cares about Steven? A drummer whose last moment of clarity was probably around 1987 at best. Who has never composed a note. Who was never close to bright and who after 30 years of constant abuse is a degenerated, brainless wreck with an intellectual level matching that of an average nine year old. Plus, he's still a junkie. That guy can't even talk sense for 5 minutes, let alone handle a tour. The idea of having him back would be suicidal on every fucking level. He'd ruin the whole thing within a week if not sooner.

Who cares about Izzy? Well, maybe a few naive romantics here who believe that being irresponsible, totally unreliable, still more moody than Axl and getting his ass out every time there's a little problem cause solving that problem would be too much fuss is so fucking cool. No it's not cool! It is what it is, irreponsible, selfish and immature. Why on earth would anyone take with them a guy who might just as well decide one week later that, after all, he prefers walking the dog in the corn right now and wants to go home unless he gets 5 milion dollars more? Well, that's the way Izzy likes to play things out. Not to mention that we don't even know how sober he is, he obviously wasn't in 93. Sorry, but reunion is serious business and for any business to have any chance of success, what you need most are realiabe people you can count on. Izzy's proven many times he ain't one of those.

Plus the whole legend and meaning that is now so trendy to attach to Izzy is just insane. The guy wrote three songs for their second album and never even cared about these songs. The rest were Axl and Slash. And don't fucking tell me where Slash is undersigned because I don't give a fuck. Wether it's Estranged or November Rain or any tune you name, it would never be what it is without Slash's guitar. That is the sound of Guns'N'Roses - Axl's voice and Slash's guitar that fits and complements this voice like nothing else! If they were to record more songs like Coma and Estranged I don't fucking mind, I'm all for it, in fact I'd be happy as shit! Even if there's nothing like You Ain't the First there.... And I won't cry over 14 years either.

Anyone getting hysterical here that a reunion without Izzy and Steven (or without Matt and Gilby - who on earth gives a flying fuck about 2 session musicians rented for a couple of years??!) is not a reunion is fucking sick in the head. Fortunately, on a large scale, they're a minority. So, Axl or anyone involved, if you're reading this, which I'm pretty sure you're not cause that would be a real waste of time, just never mind. Most of us are normal in the end. Just not necessairily on these forums.

Full of factual errors - pertinent bits in bold. Firstly, Izzy has been sober since December 1989. Secondly, a list of songs written by Izzy Stradlin immediately destroys most of your other points,

(solo)

Think About You

Used to Love Her

Patience

You Ain't the First

Double Talkin' Jibe

Pretty Tied Up

(collaborative)

Anything Goes

Nightrain

Out Ta Get Me

Mr Brownstone

Paradise City

My Michelle

Sweet Child O' Mine

You're Crazy

Reckless Life

Shadow of Your Love

Bad Apples

Perfect Crime

Right Next Door to Hell

Don't Crime

14 Years

You Could Be Mine

Dust N' Bones

6 solo accreditation and 17 collaborative. A lot more than the ''three songs for their second album'' you stated.

Lastly, Matt Sorum and Gilby Clarke were not hired as 'session musicians' but played the Use Your Illusion World Tour (1991-93) - Gilby missing 1991. That is 194 shows for Matt and 138 shows for Gilby! They were also ''rented'' for longer than ''a couple of years'' - Matt very much so. Sorum was a member from mid-1990 to April 1997, i.e. almost seven years!. Gilby was a member, late 1991 to June 1994, i.e. two and a half years.

Yeah, so that makes it wait: 9 songs out of which at least 2 date back to appetite and pre-appetite times and out of which I would only miss Double Talking Jive. That leaves 23 songs writeen and reeased without any input from Izzy, the best UYI stuff among them! I"m more than fine with that! And let's not discuss Appetite songs at all cause they were written in one room by everyone, I guess noone even knows who contributed what these days, a different incomparable reality.

It doesn't matter how long Matt and Gilby were there - what matters is that they meant NOTHING! They played what they were told to play and that's it. Chances are that Axl's shoe-cleaner is working for GNR even longer and yet reunion without him will be fine, just as without Matt or Gilby.

Oh, and was it Izzy's sobriety that made him play different songs then the rest of the guys on stage in 1993? So that they had to turn his amps down?

I have one thing to add... IZZY was the one AXL seeked out when moving to LA... Izzy is the heart and soul of this whole fucking thing..... Izzy will make his way to the shows if not touring and hitting every date... And, may I add my 2cents... Izzy solo stuff blows Slashs stuff away.... Slash has Izzy appear on his stuff and Slashs best song, GHOST, has Izzy all over it...

Izzy rulez...

[DieselDaisy]

It is significant that Izzy's contribution to Appetite is being dispensed with quickly here, because 'they were all in one room', but if you look at Appetite, Izzy's influence is all over that. It is also significant that, apart from 'November Rain' and 'Estranged', Axl does not play any of those songs, your 'Comas', 'Breakdowns' and 'Locomotives'. Yet what do we see in the nugnr set over the last ten years? 'Patience', 'You Could Be Mine' and 'Don't Cry' - in the past 'Think About You' and 'Used to Love Her'.

It seems to surprise people that some fans were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/Stones side, rather than the Axl Elton John thing or Slash's heavy metalisms.

[Towelie]

It is significant that Izzy's contribution to Appetite is being dispensed with quickly here, because 'they were all in one room', but if you look at Appetite, Izzy's influence is all over that. It is also significant that, apart from 'November Rain' and 'Estranged', Axl does not play any of those songs, your 'Comas', 'Breakdowns' and 'Locomotives'. Yet what do we see in the nugnr set over the last ten years? 'Patience', 'You Could Be Mine' and 'Don't Cry' - in the past 'Think About You' and 'Used to Love Her'.

It seems to surprise people that some fans were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/Stones side, rather than the Axl Elton John thing or Slash's heavy metalisms.

Well, isn't that what made GNR so great in the first place? You had Izzy doing his faux Keith Richards thing, Duff bringing in the punk influence, Axl doing his overblown grandiose piano symphonies and Slash adding his rock thing. And they pulled off all these sides brilliantly. Most bands can only manage one, perhaps two at most. This is why GNR are my favourite band.

[DieselDaisy]

It is significant that Izzy's contribution to Appetite is being dispensed with quickly here, because 'they were all in one room', but if you look at Appetite, Izzy's influence is all over that. It is also significant that, apart from 'November Rain' and 'Estranged', Axl does not play any of those songs, your 'Comas', 'Breakdowns' and 'Locomotives'. Yet what do we see in the nugnr set over the last ten years? 'Patience', 'You Could Be Mine' and 'Don't Cry' - in the past 'Think About You' and 'Used to Love Her'.

It seems to surprise people that some fans were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/Stones side, rather than the Axl Elton John thing or Slash's heavy metalisms.

Well, isn't that what made GNR so great in the first place? You had Izzy doing his faux Keith Richards thing, Duff bringing in the punk influence, Axl doing his overblown grandiose piano symphonies and Slash adding his rock thing. And they pulled off all these sides brilliantly. Most bands can only manage one, perhaps two at most. This is why GNR are my favourite band.

Exactly. And you are not going to have that with a hybrid line-up.

[Towelie]

It is significant that Izzy's contribution to Appetite is being dispensed with quickly here, because 'they were all in one room', but if you look at Appetite, Izzy's influence is all over that. It is also significant that, apart from 'November Rain' and 'Estranged', Axl does not play any of those songs, your 'Comas', 'Breakdowns' and 'Locomotives'. Yet what do we see in the nugnr set over the last ten years? 'Patience', 'You Could Be Mine' and 'Don't Cry' - in the past 'Think About You' and 'Used to Love Her'.

It seems to surprise people that some fans were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/Stones side, rather than the Axl Elton John thing or Slash's heavy metalisms.

Well, isn't that what made GNR so great in the first place? You had Izzy doing his faux Keith Richards thing, Duff bringing in the punk influence, Axl doing his overblown grandiose piano symphonies and Slash adding his rock thing. And they pulled off all these sides brilliantly. Most bands can only manage one, perhaps two at most. This is why GNR are my favourite band.

Exactly. And you are not going to have that with a hybrid line-up.

Well, Duff, Slash and Axl are three sides. The only one missing is Izzy and that's his prerogative if he doesn't wanna do it. I still don't see how Frank on drums instead of Matt/Steven or Richard in place of Gilby will detract from anything. They were never as important as Axl/Slash/Izzy/Duff.

[Rovim]

It is significant that Izzy's contribution to Appetite is being dispensed with quickly here, because 'they were all in one room', but if you look at Appetite, Izzy's influence is all over that. It is also significant that, apart from 'November Rain' and 'Estranged', Axl does not play any of those songs, your 'Comas', 'Breakdowns' and 'Locomotives'. Yet what do we see in the nugnr set over the last ten years? 'Patience', 'You Could Be Mine' and 'Don't Cry' - in the past 'Think About You' and 'Used to Love Her'.

It seems to surprise people that some fans were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/Stones side, rather than the Axl Elton John thing or Slash's heavy metalisms.

That's only one side of it though. Slash came up with the big 3 from Appetite. Not full songs, but WTTJ, SCOM, Paradise City he brought the initial ideas to the table.

Any hardcore Guns fan knows how important Izzy was to Guns as a songwriter or they're just ignorant. He wrote 50% of AFD: Nightrain, Out Ta Get Me, Mr. Brownstone, Think About You, My Michelle, and You're Crazy. Again, it was a collaborative effort but he came up with the initial ideas.

And you're not giving Axl the credit he deserves. He wrote November Rain and Estranged and Slash made these songs 10 times better so they were a very strong team.

Izzy's presence was felt on Lies and Illusions as well, but Axl wrote One In A Million and made Patience much better.

Guns was always a collaborative effort. Everyone were very valuable to the music and a contributor to the high quality of it.

But yeah, Izzy is the naturally gifted, no fuss, songwriter. That doesn't mean the others didn't come up with big guns like I've stated earlier. He did write You Could Be Mine and Don't Cry. The former a huge hit and the latter a huge hit and what got the band signed in the first place.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

It is significant that Izzy's contribution to Appetite is being dispensed with quickly here, because 'they were all in one room', but if you look at Appetite, Izzy's influence is all over that. It is also significant that, apart from 'November Rain' and 'Estranged', Axl does not play any of those songs, your 'Comas', 'Breakdowns' and 'Locomotives'. Yet what do we see in the nugnr set over the last ten years? 'Patience', 'You Could Be Mine' and 'Don't Cry' - in the past 'Think About You' and 'Used to Love Her'.

It seems to surprise people that some fans were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/Stones side, rather than the Axl Elton John thing or Slash's heavy metalisms.

That's only one side of it though. Slash came up with the big 3 from Appetite. Not full songs, but WTTJ, SCOM, Paradise City he brought the initial ideas to the table.

Any hardcore Guns fan knows how important Izzy was to Guns as a songwriter or they're just ignorant. He wrote 50% of AFD: Nightrain, Out Ta Get Me, Mr. Brownstone, Think About You, My Michelle, and You're Crazy. Again, it was a collaborative effort but he came up with the initial ideas.

And you're not giving Axl the credit he deserves. He wrote November Rain and Estranged and Slash made these songs 10 times better so they were a very strong team.

Izzy's presence was felt on the Lies and Illusions as well, but Axl wrote One In A Million and made Patience much better.

Guns was always a collaborative effort. Everyone had great value to the music and a contributor to the high quality of it.

But yeah, Izzy is the naturally gifted, no fuss, songwriter. That doesn't mean the others didn't come up with big guns like I've stated earlier. He did write You Could Be Mine and Don't Cry. The former a huge hit and the latter a huge hit and what got the band signed in the first place.

I agree with you but I was replying to a poster who said Izzy wrote only ''three'' songs, weaker ones, on Illusion and, ''who cares about Izzy?'' basically. I agree that Guns was collaborative.

[Asia]

Steven Adler was kicked for a reason - a good reason. And regardless of what his contribution was in 1986 (and it sure wasn't in songwriting), he's long past the time of being able to contribute anything. He's long gone in a sense, sorry to say that but this is a fact.

I am not denying that Izzy contributed to the band's music - but it's not like GNR without him isn't GNR. He left in 91 and I dont think there was one person in the world back then who was crazy enough to say they shouldn't use the name anymore, cause Izzy isn't there, lol. He was only one of three people who co-wrote those songs and co-created the band. And the other two were perfectly capable of writing great GNR songs without him and delivering amazing live performances without him which they have proven on UYI. Slash and Axl, not to mention Slash and Axl and Duff are Guns'N'Roses with or without Izzy and Steven.

I am not trying to say that it wouldn't be cool to have Izzy, if Izzy could really engage in it, contribute, be reliable and make no trouble. But this isn't possible. I don't think so. And like I already said - I'll be in heaven if I could get something like UYI record and tour even minus what Izzy contributed. And saying that without Izzy and Steven it doesn't make sense is just out of this world. Pure madness.

And please stop using the argument of Izzy co-writing all the Appetite and Lies songs - it's invalid. They didn't split writing credits there. Everyone is a contributor. That way you can say Steven co-wrote 18 of 48 songs. Which is bullshit. I am not saying Izzy didnt play an important part in writing the Appetite songs, just that we don't even know which or to what extent, so this proves nothing.

And don't count in songs that were not even released.

[Towelie]

At the end of the day, if this hybrid lineup does go on tour, people need to keep a bit of perspective. Two years ago, Axl was doing Vegas residencies with DJ Ashba. The reunion lineup may not be the exact guys from AFD, but it's sure as shit the best lineup GNR will have had in 23 years.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Towelie

[RockerRoller]

Izzy wrote most of sweet child of mine. Slash just was playing that intro piece and izzy is the one who came up with most of the songs structure. That's what he really was for most of gnrs catalog. Izzy helped write the structure for November rain too. He was huge for guns man whatta joke to say anything else

[Asia]

Izzy wrote most of sweet child of mine. Slash just was playing that intro piece and izzy is the one who came up with most of the songs structure. That's what he really was for most of gnrs catalog. Izzy helped write the structure for November rain too. He was huge for guns man whatta joke to say anything else

Izzy wrote everything, probably also the structure of Chinese Democracy and the Iliad and Odyssey, and you were there all the time and came here to tell us about it.

[Healy52003]

i hope the reunion is not the eagles who clearly hate one another and dont share flights, dressing rooms etc

[DieselDaisy]

It is possible to (partially) reconstruct the songwriting credits for Appetite for Destruction from interviews though. We know Slash had Izzy pieced together Brownstone, and that Izzy delivered the chords (behind Slash's intro) on 'Sweet Child O' Mine'.

[Rovim]

It is significant that Izzy's contribution to Appetite is being dispensed with quickly here, because 'they were all in one room', but if you look at Appetite, Izzy's influence is all over that. It is also significant that, apart from 'November Rain' and 'Estranged', Axl does not play any of those songs, your 'Comas', 'Breakdowns' and 'Locomotives'. Yet what do we see in the nugnr set over the last ten years? 'Patience', 'You Could Be Mine' and 'Don't Cry' - in the past 'Think About You' and 'Used to Love Her'.

It seems to surprise people that some fans were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/Stones side, rather than the Axl Elton John thing or Slash's heavy metalisms.

That's only one side of it though. Slash came up with the big 3 from Appetite. Not full songs, but WTTJ, SCOM, Paradise City he brought the initial ideas to the table.

Any hardcore Guns fan knows how important Izzy was to Guns as a songwriter or they're just ignorant. He wrote 50% of AFD: Nightrain, Out Ta Get Me, Mr. Brownstone, Think About You, My Michelle, and You're Crazy. Again, it was a collaborative effort but he came up with the initial ideas.

And you're not giving Axl the credit he deserves. He wrote November Rain and Estranged and Slash made these songs 10 times better so they were a very strong team.

Izzy's presence was felt on the Lies and Illusions as well, but Axl wrote One In A Million and made Patience much better.

Guns was always a collaborative effort. Everyone had great value to the music and a contributor to the high quality of it.

But yeah, Izzy is the naturally gifted, no fuss, songwriter. That doesn't mean the others didn't come up with big guns like I've stated earlier. He did write You Could Be Mine and Don't Cry. The former a huge hit and the latter a huge hit and what got the band signed in the first place.

I agree with you but I was replying to a poster who said Izzy wrote only ''three'' songs, weaker ones, on Illusion and, ''who cares about Izzy?'' basically. I agree that Guns was collaborative.

You said people were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/stones side compared to Axl's "Elton John" thing and Slash metally side. That's not accurate.

People were drawn to November Rain and Estranged and WTTJ and Paradise City which is Slash's country metal side. So...again: they were just as important imo. Slash and Axl had other talents Izzy never had such as Axl's powerful and unique voice and Slash's guitar sound and that's on top of many songs they've brought to the table which people really connected with.

You don't have to diminish their importance just to get your point across on how important Izzy was which you kinda did.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Rovim

[Towelie]

Yeah, but what would SCOM be without Axl's melody line and Slash's riff/solo? A basic chord sequence that's been used in thousands of songs.

[DieselDaisy]

It is significant that Izzy's contribution to Appetite is being dispensed with quickly here, because 'they were all in one room', but if you look at Appetite, Izzy's influence is all over that. It is also significant that, apart from 'November Rain' and 'Estranged', Axl does not play any of those songs, your 'Comas', 'Breakdowns' and 'Locomotives'. Yet what do we see in the nugnr set over the last ten years? 'Patience', 'You Could Be Mine' and 'Don't Cry' - in the past 'Think About You' and 'Used to Love Her'.

It seems to surprise people that some fans were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/Stones side, rather than the Axl Elton John thing or Slash's heavy metalisms.

That's only one side of it though. Slash came up with the big 3 from Appetite. Not full songs, but WTTJ, SCOM, Paradise City he brought the initial ideas to the table.

Any hardcore Guns fan knows how important Izzy was to Guns as a songwriter or they're just ignorant. He wrote 50% of AFD: Nightrain, Out Ta Get Me, Mr. Brownstone, Think About You, My Michelle, and You're Crazy. Again, it was a collaborative effort but he came up with the initial ideas.

And you're not giving Axl the credit he deserves. He wrote November Rain and Estranged and Slash made these songs 10 times better so they were a very strong team.

Izzy's presence was felt on the Lies and Illusions as well, but Axl wrote One In A Million and made Patience much better.

Guns was always a collaborative effort. Everyone had great value to the music and a contributor to the high quality of it.

But yeah, Izzy is the naturally gifted, no fuss, songwriter. That doesn't mean the others didn't come up with big guns like I've stated earlier. He did write You Could Be Mine and Don't Cry. The former a huge hit and the latter a huge hit and what got the band signed in the first place.

I agree with you but I was replying to a poster who said Izzy wrote only ''three'' songs, weaker ones, on Illusion and, ''who cares about Izzy?'' basically. I agree that Guns was collaborative.

You said people were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/stones side compared to Axl's "Elton John" thing and Slash metally side. That's not accurate.

People were drawn to November Rain and Estranged and WTTJ and Paradise City which is Slash's country metal side. So...again: they were just as important imo. Slash and Axl had other talents Izzy never had such as Axl's powerful and unique voice and Slash's guitar sound and that's on top of many songs they've brought to the table which people really connected with.

You don't have to diminish their importance just to bring your point across on how important Izzy was which you kinda did.

I said ''some fans were more drawn to...'' - emphasis on ''some...were''.

[Rovim]

You said people were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/stones side compared to Axl's "Elton John" thing and Slash metally side. That's not accurate.

People were drawn to November Rain and Estranged and WTTJ and Paradise City which is Slash's country metal side. So...again: they were just as important imo. Slash and Axl had other talents Izzy never had such as Axl's powerful and unique voice and Slash's guitar sound and that's on top of many songs they've brought to the table which people really connected with.

You don't have to diminish their importance just to bring your point across on how important Izzy was which you kinda did.

I said ''some fans were more drawn to...'' - emphasis on ''some...were''.

But the way you presented it more than suggested Axl and Slash simply didn't bring to the table ideas that were as important as Izzy's and that's not true.

Where will Guns be today without the songs Slash and Axl wrote? November Rain is comparable in it's importance to You Could Be Mine. Is that fair to say? and who was responsible for writing Jungle, SCOM, and Paradise City?

You agree it was a collaborative effort, but on the other hand it sounds like you're not being objective when it comes to what the rest of them did for the band. Like it's somehow of lesser importance. That's inaccurate, that's all I was saying.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

You said people were more drawn to the Izzy/Duff punky/stones side compared to Axl's "Elton John" thing and Slash metally side. That's not accurate.

People were drawn to November Rain and Estranged and WTTJ and Paradise City which is Slash's country metal side. So...again: they were just as important imo. Slash and Axl had other talents Izzy never had such as Axl's powerful and unique voice and Slash's guitar sound and that's on top of many songs they've brought to the table which people really connected with.

You don't have to diminish their importance just to bring your point across on how important Izzy was which you kinda did.

I said ''some fans were more drawn to...'' - emphasis on ''some...were''.

But the way you presented it more then suggested Axl and Slash simply didn't bring to the table ideas that were as important as Izzy's and that's not true.

Where will Guns be today without the songs Slash and Axl wrote? November Rain is comparable in it's importance to You Could Be Mine. Is that fair to say? and who was responsible for writing Jungle, SCOM, and Paradise City?

You agree it was a collaborative effort, but on the other hand it sounds like you're not being objective when it comes to what the rest of them did for the band. Like it's somehow of lesser importance. That's inaccurate, that's all I was saying.

You must not have been reading very well as I have always insisted it is collaborative - heck I'm defending Adler here and even poor Gilby who seems completely friendless on mygnr, the poor chap!