Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread (SPOILERS WITHIN)

[rocknroll41]

Alright, here we go. Since there's so much to unpack with this movie, I decided to break up my thoughts by character.

LUKE

I love almost everything they did with Luke. The performance Hamill delivered was top-notch. The whole time I felt like I was watching Luke, not Hamill. The flashbacks bothered me a little bit. Seeing him like that was weird, but as I thought back on it a little more I realized making him look like an idiot/jerk/loser was right, to make his eventual redemption in the climax of the film feel more impactful by contrast. Seeing the hallucination "prime" version of Luke was one of my favorite things in the entire Star Wars series. Having him and Kylo there in front of that epic background was a true work of art. I also loved his death. That's exactly how I had always pictured Luke eventually dying. My guess is that once he realized that he should've gone to help the others, he knew that he would never be able to physically get off the island cause the Falcon had already taken off and his x-wing was rotting at the bottom of the ocean, so he made the ultimate sacrifice by using all the force energy he had in him to create an alternate version of himself on the planet where the battle was, to give the few remaining rebels that were left enough time to escape, thus continuing hope that peace could be truly restored someday. The best way to end his journey imo. I only wish Leia and Rey coulda reflected a little more on how important his sacrifice there was. Overall, I liked this story thread, though. It had been my dream since I was a little kid to see Luke return as a wise old Jedi master on screen. It didn't turn out exactly the way I wanted, but at least the kid in me got closure.

REY

I liked that we found out her parents were just some drunk assholes who didn't give two shits about her. I wish the film woulda touched on this further, like mention that they cared so little for her that they never even bothered to give her a name, and she just started calling herself Rey. I wanted Star Wars to move away from the whole nepotism thing, so this reveal felt right to me. Almost like a reversal of the "I am your father" thing. My only concern though was not so much with Rey's character development, but more so how her story thread was executed/edited. Where did she get a raincoat and a Jedi outfit? How did she get back to the Falcon after fighting with Kylo? Weren't she and him on that same Star Destroyer that got broken in half by Holdo? If so, why did the throne room they were both in stay perfectly stable? Little editing mistakes like that kinda bugged me a bit. 

KYLO

I love Adam Driver as an actor, and I really liked him back as Kylo in this film, for the most part. There were a few shots of him where he looked a little too "whiny" or something, part otherwise than that I thought he had a very cool, charismatic presence. I liked his fascination with Rey, and I thought it was cool how the movie made you think he was going to the light, and then at the last minute they pull a fast-one on you and turn him into the new Emperor. Oh, and that fight scene with him and Rey against Snoke's guards was one of the best action sequences in the entire series in my opinion.

SNOKE

Never liked this guy. Glad they killed him off. I just wish we would've found out where he came from first, and why he wasn't around during any of the previous films. 

HUX

I liked the comedy with him towards the beginning of the film but by the end of it I was kinda sick of him. Part of me wishes Kylo woulda just choked this guy to death, but I guess it was kinda cool seeing him get turned into Kylo's bitch. Maybe they'll do something interesting with that dynamic in the next one. I like Gleeson as an actor so hopefully his character is more interesting next time around.

PHASMA

Why the fuck would they waste such as cool-looking character like that? The fight with her and Finn lasted literally one second. I practically blinked and missed it. The only thing about her I like was that she mentioned that Finn was just " bug in the system," which explains why in Force Awakens he disobeyed orders and defected even though he was "programmed from birth" to be obedient. It was nice to finally get an explanation for that. 

DJ

I like Benicio as an actor. I thought the stutter added a nice touch and I liked that he was "gray" in terms of morals and what not. I also like how he died instead of being redeemed, which woulda been generic and too similar to Lando imo. The way he entered the story was odd though. Why was he in jail if he could just walk out whenever he wanted to? Also, how did he know the Resistance pods were heading to Crait? Who told him that? Again, editing issues.

HOLDO

I liked Dern's performance, and the look of the character. I also like how we were lead to initially believe she was a bitch, only to find out that she was actually pretty cool. I thought her sacrifice was neat as well.

ROSE

Pretty good character played, by a pretty good actress. I like that she showed Finn the cruelty that can hide underneath the facade of beauty by using the whole Canto Bight place as an example. I also thought it was great how she saved Finn at the last minute. The only thing I didn't like was the kiss at the end. There was nothing beforehand to set up any kind of romance between her and Finn. Also, how did Finn know the necklace was emotionally important to her? Editing issues!!

FINN

I think this might be the character I had the most issues with. His whole arc in Force Awakens was about him learning to stop running away from his fears and start standing up for himself. Then in this movie as soon as he wakes up he goes straight back to wanting to run away. To be fair, in the first movie he was thinking mainly about himself, and in this one he's thinking more about Rey. But come on? I guess they made up for it in the end with him standing up to Phasma, and then doing a near-sacrifice thing on Crait and wanting to even help Luke. I genuinely thought he was gonna die during the sacrifice bit, so the moment Rose saved him I felt a massive adrenaline rush. That whole bit was very emotional and exciting for me. But still, it felt like this character was undercut. If he goes back to wanting to run away again in the next one then I'm gonna be so pissed. I still think Boyega did his best here with the script he had to work with, though.

POE

I really like what they did with this character. It was great how Leia and Holdo "guided" him into becoming a leader, and helping him to realize that it's not as simple as "blow up the bad guys." Can't wait to see this guy become the top leader of the Resistance (or Rebellion now again, I guess) in the next one. Oscar Isaac also continues to do a great job in giving this character charm. Also, it felt jarring and weird when they kept cutting back-and-forth between the super-important Jedi plot and this sub-plot (as well as the Finn sub-plot). Man, it really is the editing with this movie, isn't it?

YODA

I loved this scene! I loved absolutely everything about it!! Probably another one of my favorite sequences in the entire series!! I can't even begin to explain why. It's just beautiful...

ADDITIONAL NOTES

All of the worlds were interesting. I liked all of the creatures on the Jedi island, even the Porgs. They were all in the movie just enough where it wasn't annoying. I like how the battle of Crait was not a beat-for-beat recreation of the battle of Hoth, which was one of my biggest worries going into it. I thought it was a little weird how the Resistance is reduced to just some people on the Falcon by the very end of it, but I guess that makes the stakes even more intense for the next movie. Also, I thought it was weird how a bunch of characters like R2, 3PO, BB9E, and Maz were all reduced to just little cameos. I guess that's what happens when you have a film as stuffed as this one, though. Now that Luke, Snoke, Phasma, DJ, Holdo, and (unfortunately due to real-life tragedy) Leia are all dead, I guess there's more room for some of those other characters next time around. Another thing I want to see in Episode 9 though is Rey start up a new Jedi order using the books from the tree (they're on the Falcon at the very end if you look hard enough). I thought it was cool how the end of this film showed there are other force-sensitive kids out there who have the same humbleness as Luke (his legacy lives on), but I would hope her students are older. I hope she also repairs the Skywalker saber (she had both halves of it at the end), as symbolism for "peace being restored" or whatever. On the flipside, I hope Kylo calls up those other ex-students from Luke (the Knights of Ren, I presume) so that we can get some kinda seven-vs-seven lightsaber battle. 

FINAL VERDICT

Overall, I liked a lot of aspects of the film, but I feel like they don't all tie together too well. The movie crumbles under the weight from everything it has to cover. The whole does not end up being greater than the sum of its parts (or however that saying goes). I'm not really sure where exactly I rank it amongst the rest of the series just yet. I'll provide a score and ranking in the non-spoiler thread. Sorry for this long-ass post, btw. I had alot to say.

[Powerage5]

3 hours ago, AncientEvil80 said:

Oh look at a SUCKER right here, right now. 

He's entitled to his opinion, and you're entitled to yours. 

[rocknroll41]

Oh yeah one more thing: the Leia-flying scene did not bother me. It was nice to see her visually use the force, just for once, and at least it was in a unique way.

[Georgy Zhukov]

They never should have killed off Luke. And we know Leia will die. And R2D2 is like in the film for 2 minutes

[James Bond]

What a wasted opportunity. I enjoyed it more than Rogue One if we do the immediate comparison, but as far as the main story entries go I'm not sure where I'd place it.

Mark Hamill saved what was otherwise a total mess. Poor Rey didn't even feel like a main character in her own movie. The casino subplot was a complete bore, the quips were too much at times, and none of the twists really resulted in much save for Kylo killing Snoke. I actually really liked that.

Once again, a lot of potentially interesting characters were totally wasted. Seems to be a trait of the recent films. It's a shame because it could have and should have been so much more.

I'll at least admit that the Porgs didn't bother me. However, the Leia Superman thing was absolutely dreadful. At times I didn't know if I was watching Star Wars or an awkward hybrid of Guardians of the Galaxy and The Golden Compass.

[James Bond]

I thought it was dreadful. I hate that I feel that way.

[Georgy Zhukov]

34 minutes ago, James Bond said:

I thought it was dreadful. I hate that I feel that way.

 

Dreadful was the only word I could think of. That and boring. Dull. I mean this is the most boring Star Wars since Phantom Menace. Even that was more interesting. 

[Georgy Zhukov]

Rogue One was awful, but I never could imagine it would be a sign that the worse is yet to come. This film was bad. To see people praise it, sickens me. It has become an industry standard to just kill off everyone's favorite characters. It is a cheap move to rouse emotion because the writers have the inability to actually create an original story that fans can immerse themselves in. Instead all we get are rehashed ideas, tweaked a bit full of twists and shocking deaths of our favorite characters. Just because they can't find a way to fit them in a story with new characters. We blamed the bad writing in the prequels on Lucas, what is their excuse now? I see no reason to watch the next movie, since it will just be Return of the Jedi all over again.

 

What's next? They going to kill off R2 and C-3P0? Might as well since they have been completely useless. We should not get a CG Carrie Fisher so kill her off screen. Maybe she got hypothermia or something. 

[DieselDaisy]

Just saw it, a dodgy pirate haha.

Awful. Truly awful. It was the first Star Wars film where I found myself thoroughly bored; I wasn't bored during the last one which I also disliked immensely. I didn't mind Luke's 'death' or Leia flying through space - well I do a bit but those are the least of the film's problems - however the whole film was just a mess (a bit like that spin off film) and very tedious. I was also expecting some ''big'' spoiler when really there is none whatsoever. That was why I was continuing with it until the end, to see some big plot twist which would explain a lot of things whereas nothing of consequence happened. You may as well have not bothered with the two separate threads to be honest haha.  

It is played very 'light', and for cheap laughs isn't it? It employs that same ironic/self-referencing humour the Marvel films employ (e.g., the bit where she tells him to wear a cowl), which has never been present in Star Wars before so it is all a bit strange.

[DieselDaisy]

19 hours ago, OmarBradley said:

And the whole casino thing too

Yes, it reminded me of The Fifth Element. 

[James Bond]

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Just saw it, a dodgy pirate haha.

Awful. Truly awful. It was the first Star Wars film where I found myself thoroughly bored; I wasn't bored during the last one which I also disliked immensely. I didn't mind Luke's 'death' or Leia flying through space - well I do a bit but those are the least of the film's problems - however the whole film was just a mess (a bit like that spin off film) and very tedious. I was also expecting some ''big'' spoiler when really there is none whatsoever. That was why I was continuing with it until the end, to see some big plot twist which would explain a lot of things whereas nothing of consequence happened. You may as well have not bothered with the two separate threads to be honest haha.  

It is played very 'light', and for cheap laughs isn't it? It employs that same ironic/self-referencing humour the Marvel films employ (e.g., the bit where she tells him to wear a cowl), which has never been present in Star Wars before so it is all a bit strange.

I overheard several people leaving the theatre making the Marvel comparison. It felt so out of place in a Star Wars film.

I think I need to binge watch the original trilogy today and wash the sour taste out of my mouth.

[James Bond]

5 hours ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

 

Dreadful was the only word I could think of. That and boring. Dull. I mean this is the most boring Star Wars since Phantom Menace. Even that was more interesting. 

I thought Rogue One was the most boring Star Wars film since TPM so now I'm incredibly conflicted.

Hey Disney... 

[DieselDaisy]

I also thought some of the question marks from the first sequel would have began to be unraveled, like for instance why do we commence amidst a war between the empire in all but name? What became of the peace at the conclusion of Return of the Jedi? Who is Snork? Some people were defending The Force Awakens, stating that some of this will be explained further in the series: well, 2/3rds through and I'm none the wiser! I expected some very clever plotting to begin to explain it all, but...

It was all just a lazy reboot device basically that they cannot be arsed to explain. They just wanted to recreate the scenario at the start of the original Star Wars. There is no thought that has gone into any of this - none in the slightest.

Edited December 16, 2017 by DieselDaisy
Iffy spelling.

[Nicklord]

Way too many cringy jokes are in the movie

Edited December 16, 2017 by Nicklord

[Georgy Zhukov]

1 hour ago, James Bond said:

I thought Rogue One was the most boring Star Wars film since TPM so now I'm incredibly conflicted.

Hey Disney... 

Just like with MGM.

[tsinindy]

You know since I've been grinding my ax.  I think someone may have mentioned, but Akbar's death should have been given a bit more reverence than it got b/c it was wasted by the whole Carrie Poppins stuff, so while everyone is sitting there processing that Leia just flew through space, Akbar got wasted.  WTF?

Why does Laura Dern get such a huge moment in this film, don't get me wrong I like Laura Dern, have nothing against, but when you are 8 movies in a series and you got a big deal scene like that, it should be for an established character.  

Here's the thing, Rian Johnson just gave a big Middle Finger to every single star wars fanboy (and girl) out there.  That's cool if you want to do it with one thing, but he did it with the whole film....it was one big FUCK YOU to the fanboys.  

Mark Hamill is right, say what you want about Lucas, but his ideas for this trilogy were certainly better than whatever this garbage that Disney is throwing at us.  

56 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I also thought some of the question marks from the first sequel would have began to be unraveled, like for instance why do we commence amidst a war between the empire in all but name? What became of the peace at the conclusion of Return of the Jedi? Who is Snork? Some people were defending The Force Awakens, stating that some of this will be explained further in the series: well, 2/3rds through and I'm none the wiser! I expected some very cleaver plotting to begin to explain it all, but...

It was all just a lazy reboot device basically that they cannot be arsed to explain. They just wanted to recreate the scenario at the start of the original Star Wars. There is no thought that has gone into any of this - none in the slightest.

I'm with you on this, I was actually one of the ones who probably defended TFA to a degree, but I can't really disagree with you on where we are at with the whole of these two films.   

[luciusfunk]

The sequel trilogy is just Han's dreams while he's frozen in carbonite.

[James Bond]

53 minutes ago, luciusfunk said:

The sequel trilogy is just Han's dreams while he's frozen in carbonite.

Somehow that sounds like a better twist than half of this film.

[James Bond]

1 hour ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

Just like with MGM.

Don't joke. Next Disney will be buying them and they'll bugger up Bond too.

[DieselDaisy]

It really isn't dark. I kept reading they're were doing the 'dark second film' thing but chuck in a bunch of Chewie-cuddly bird scenes and post-ironic one-liners and that idea basically gets diluted (not that I'm saying it inherently has to be dark to be good). 

PS

The critics and fans are at complete loggerheads in their assessment on this film. Currently, a massive gap of 36 points on rotten tomatoes! 

Edited December 16, 2017 by DieselDaisy

[luciusfunk]

Quote

I think it was clearly changed, because a lot of it just doesn't fit together, and it honestly felt like a reboot of a reboot to me, like two directors fighting over a story and the second refusing to play nice, and just severing plot threads, making fun of them, and have characters nearly break the 4th wall to talk about them (as if they were even wondering in-universe) and say it literally doesn't matter as some sort of "gotchya" moment, as if incoherent storytelling between two writers is a gotchya, when the audience was just working with what they were shown was the key plot points from the first writer. It was one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in cinema.

Luke clearly left a secret map to where he was, left with certain people, that doesn't match him going to die, or only seeking the first jedi temple for no reason.

Snoke summoned Kylo Ren to complete his training - another plot thread out the window.

The saber clearly called to Rey, she clearly had visions of Luke's past before having visions of her own, she'd been dreaming of the island where Luke was as Kylo said when he got in her head. For it just to be tossed away without meaning is weak. It was a magic sword clearly calling to her as the center of the first movie's plot. I guess she still has the halves so maybe it'll amount to a double-bladed saber or something.

Rey's background was clearly intended as a mystery, she repeatedly talked about how her family was coming back, it was constantly teased as one of the main story points of the movie, even giving flashbacks to her parents flying away, Maz pointing out in shock that the Skywalker saber is calling to her now, asking Han who she was, etc. To just drop it and give some weird 4th-wall breaking theory discussion where Kylo talks about "the story" and "your parents were nobody" (as if it was meant to be a secret to Rey? She never claimed to not know who she was) was just weird and one of the most awkwardly fan-fictiony-dialogue scenes in the movie for me.

 

[luciusfunk]

Critics aren't going to say anything bad about post-Lucas Star Wars. George Lucas ruined the franchise, remember? Every film they make is going to be "The best since Empire" which is total bullshit. As much as I disliked TFA, I think it may have been better than TLJ.

Edited December 16, 2017 by luciusfunk

[DieselDaisy]

Well it was a tighter film (mostly because they ripped the original film off). Yip, I think this might have done the unimaginable and made something even worse than The Force Awaken!

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

Jesus, Ain't it Cool is really up its bum,

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/79123

It is basically saying it is the greatest star wars ever - better than Empire Strikes Back and the original!!

 

[James Bond]

10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Jesus, Ain't it Cool is really up its bum,

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/79123

It is basically saying it is the greatest star wars ever - better than Empire Strikes Back and the original!!

 

Jesus. I mean, I'm glad a lot of people seemed to like the film. That's great, but calling it better than the originals? That's not being a blind fanboy, that's just pure stupidity.