Alan Niven - "It was Izzy's band" Article

[Frey]

20 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Man -- there sure are a lot of Alan Niven haters here.

It still doesn't change the fact that when he was managing the band, they were on top of the world. As soon as he left, we got the bloated tour shows, the riots and the band imploding.

Axl doesn't like anyone who stands up to him -- Matt, Steven, Niven, and eventually Duff and Slash. Niven called out Axl on his bullshit.

It's interesting that Izzy and Niven are the closest to each other and that once Niven left, that cemented Izzy's decision to leave.

Izzy is also the only guy in the band who has no reason to lie or distort the truth about anything -- and he liked Niven. What that means to me was that Niven was a great manager who had the best interests of GnR in mind unlike the rest of the ass kissers Axl hired like Doug Goldstein.

Disliking Alan Niven and his biased, bitter attitude doesn't mean you approve Doug Goldstein.

They were both awful. One kissed Izzy's (and Slash's) ass while making Axl feel threatened and disrespected, the other kissed Axl's ass and failed the other guys.

[Kira]

7 minutes ago, Frey said:

Disliking Alan Niven and his biased, bitter attitude doesn't mean you approve Doug Goldstein.

They were both awful. One kissed Izzy's (and Slash's) ass while making Axl feel threatened and disrespected, the other kissed Axl's ass and failed the other guys.

Yes, Niven and Goldstein are both very unlikeable, that's the business I guess. 

Niven, I find to be a pompous blowhard who likes to inflate his importance to the band in those days.  Whether he was fired or not, I believe the band still would have spiraled out of control.  Despite his bluster, Niven had no more control over Axl than anyone else did. 

This article (and many others he's done) are just transparently full of bitterness towards Axl.  We all know Izzy is a great songwriter and was a really important part of the band.  That being said, he didn't have the stage/video presence that Axl and Slash did that propelled the band to international stardom.  He kind of had the luxury of being the "mysterious" one, who didn't have to participate in too many interviews or appearances. 

And if he really wanted to do RnRHF, why didn't he do it without Axl with the three other original members who were there? 

Every time I hear an audio interview with Niven, I just can't stand his tone.  He's totally slapable.

 

[HollyAnn]

Duff just said the same exact thing in his It's So Easy movie....  "Izzy, this is YOUR band"! 

 

 

 

[thunderram]

7 hours ago, Silverburst80 said:

Nah it wasn't Izzy's band, the bands he was in before did nothing and he's done nothing of real note since. The man was a very good songwriter in his pomp but when he got in a room with the other guys his songs became legendary.

 

Every single original band member was/is very important in their own right. I think everyone knows that.

But, having said that, this nonsense over GN'R being "Izzy's band" just wreaks of sour grapes from a bitter ex-manager.  From a majority POV, GN'R has always been Axl and Slash's band. Anybody that doesn't see that is simply lying to themselves or they simply just don't get it.

If you swapped out Axl and Slash on this upcoming reunion or regrouping tour (whatever you want to call it) for Izzy and Steven instead -- would most anybody care? There would be a small faction of Izzy Stradlin fans that would probably go no matter what, but, without Axl and Slash, this tour has no traction, no buzz. The reason ---- Axl and Slash are the most important pieces to it. Axl and Izzy were together in numerous other groups. But none of them took off the way GN'R did. And GN'R didn't take off until Slash and Steven were brought into the mix. The real key being Axl and Slash together. When Izzy left in late 1991, the band was still as popular as ever.

Now, we can discuss and debate ad nauseam how the band suffers and isn't as good when missing any member of the original 5. And it's true. When Steven left, the band lost something. When Izzy left, the band lost something. Obviously once Slash and Duff left, there really was no more GN'R aside from Axl's insistence to carry on the name. But you can't lose 4 of the 5 and still hope to hold the same or even similar interest. Axl did well on his own, as did Slash, because they were always the biggest draws of the original band. But they still couldn't maintain it on their own.

The simple truth is this. If you only included 2 of the original 5 in any reunion/regrouping, the combination of Axl and Slash is always going to hold the most interest and appeal to the masses. That's one of several reasons why it's always been "their band".

Lastly, regarding Niven's assertions about Izzy's attitude toward Axl in the early days when Axl first came to LA, and their friendship, the fact that Izzy repeated decided to form groups with him says otherwise. Not only that, Izzy basically stole Axl away from Rapidfire. He obviously didn't have too much issue working with him back then.

Edited June 6, 2016 by thunderram

[ludurigan]

13 hours ago, Silverburst80 said:

By other band members that good enough for you?, didn't even play on Coma or Locomotive pretty fucking lazy in my opinion i learnt those songs in an hour or two. What you mean "the band worked hard on his ideas", do you think he came up with Slash's solo work on fucking Dust n Bones?, laid down the piano on 14 years?, what the fuck are YOU talking about.

Izzy said himself that he had a hard time memorizing the chords to Coma. It wasnt Slash who said that or anyone else. Thats doesnt make him lazy. He is a rocker, he writes and plays simple songs. That songs is complicated compared to the material he is used to write and play.

Please give me a quote of any GNR member saying that Izzy was lazy on the songwriting and or recording sessions of UYI. I dont remember any of that. What I remember is that Izzy wrote a lot of songs, helped to write many others (except My World) recorded his guitar parts and left. That may not fit Axls vision (you can enjoy a lot of that in an album caled Chinese Democracy) but it has nothing to do with being lazy. 

Izzy played Coma live in 1991. So yeah, he learned the song.

Locomotive? So you learned to play Locomotive? Guess what? Slash and Izzy WROTE Locomotive. Slash said so in his book.

Do you think that Izzy didnt work on Axl, Duff and Slash ideas?

Do you think Izzys "ideas" were 14 Years and Dust n Bones?

Izzy wrote or helped write most of the songs on UIY albums.

 

[RONIN]

Izzy was not there for UYI as much because the band was either drunk/stoned 24/7 (Duff, Slash, Steven) or doing god knows what (Axl). So he did what any sane, sober person would do -- submitted all his parts and then peaced out. When the band finally got their shit together to record, Izzy wasn't around because he probably didn't give a shit anymore. He's said before in interviews that some of the stuff he submitted to the band was already 2 yrs old, possibly even older  -- they never had their shit together to actually do anything with Izzy's stuff until the guy had already mentally checked out.

Izzy during the AFD years actually had stage presence and he complemented the rest of the band. There can be only so many stars in a band and he knew that, giving Axl and Slash maximum opportunities to hog the limelight. Look at the band interviews from the AFD era, Izzy and Steven barely get a word in between Axl and Slash.

[Silverburst80]

4 hours ago, ludurigan said:

Izzy said himself that he had a hard time memorizing the chords to Coma. It wasnt Slash who said that or anyone else. Thats doesnt make him lazy. He is a rocker, he writes and plays simple songs. That songs is complicated compared to the material he is used to write and play.

Please give me a quote of any GNR member saying that Izzy was lazy on the songwriting and or recording sessions of UYI. I dont remember any of that. What I remember is that Izzy wrote a lot of songs, helped to write many others (except My World) recorded his guitar parts and left. That may not fit Axls vision (you can enjoy a lot of that in an album caled Chinese Democracy) but it has nothing to do with being lazy. 

Izzy played Coma live in 1991. So yeah, he learned the song.

Locomotive? So you learned to play Locomotive? Guess what? Slash and Izzy WROTE Locomotive. Slash said so in his book.

Do you think that Izzy didnt work on Axl, Duff and Slash ideas?

Do you think Izzys "ideas" were 14 Years and Dust n Bones?

Izzy wrote or helped write most of the songs on UIY albums.

 

Loads of stuff out there regarding Izzy's work ethic  for UYI.

Izzy played it live did he, well so he should it's a song by his band!

Slash wrote Locomotive at Izzy's apartment, Izzy has no writing credit for that song. It's Rose/Slash collaboration. And yes i did learn to play it, not bragging just emphasizing that it wouldn't be hard for a professional musician to take the time to lay down a guitar track for it, seeing it's how he earns a living and all.

Izzy worked mainly on the stuff that was written in the AFD era. Good on him for showing up for some of the newer tracks, the rest of the band worked on EVERY track well apart from My World.

14 years and Dust n Bones are Izzy's songs, or ideas or whatever the fuck you want to call them and from memory Axl said he had a hard time to get Izzy to even work on those!. Now if the other band members turned around and said we aren't going to bother playing on those that would be two less songs he'd have on the album. That would be kind of a shit attitude no?, kinda the point i'm trying to make.

Love Izzy but he seems to duck any criticism.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Silverburst80

[Silverburst80]

3 hours ago, thunderram said:

 

Every single original band member was/is very important in their own right. I think everyone knows that.

But, having said that, this nonsense over GN'R being "Izzy's band" just wreaks of sour grapes from a bitter ex-manager.  From a majority POV, GN'R has always been Axl and Slash's band. Anybody that doesn't see that is simply lying to themselves or they simply just don't get it.

If you swapped out Axl and Slash on this upcoming reunion or regrouping tour (whatever you want to call it) for Izzy and Steven instead -- would most anybody care? There would be a small faction of Izzy Stradlin fans that would probably go no matter what, but, without Axl and Slash, this tour has no traction, no buzz. The reason ---- Axl and Slash are the most important pieces to it. Axl and Izzy were together in numerous other groups. But none of them took off the way GN'R did. And GN'R didn't take off until Slash and Steven were brought into the mix. The real key being Axl and Slash together. When Izzy left in late 1991, the band was still as popular as ever.

Now, we can discuss and debate ad nauseam how the band suffers and isn't as good when missing any member of the original 5. And it's true. When Steven left, the band lost something. When Izzy left, the band lost something. Obviously once Slash and Duff left, there really was no more GN'R aside from Axl's insistence to carry on the name. But you can't lose 4 of the 5 and still hope to hold the same or even similar interest. Axl did well on his own, as did Slash, because they were always the biggest draws of the original band. But they still couldn't maintain it on their own.

The simple truth is this. If you only included 2 of the original 5 in any reunion/regrouping, the combination of Axl and Slash is always going to hold the most interest and appeal to the masses. That's one of several reasons why it's always been "their band".

Lastly, regarding Niven's assertions about Izzy's attitude toward Axl in the early days when Axl first came to LA, and their friendship, the fact that Izzy repeated decided to form groups with him says otherwise. Not only that, Izzy basically stole Axl away from Rapidfire. He obviously didn't have too much issue working with him back then.

Izzy made GNR great and vise versa. Pretty much the tale for all the members.

[stella]

Some good points were made above. And as far as the band imploding when Niven was no longer managing them? Correlation doesn't equal causation. It's true that Goldstein supported Axl's wishes perhaps more than he should have, but it's also true that UYI, the videos from the albums and the tour were extremely successful. During that time period GnR was on top of the world. They stayed on the road for three years, which is just unheard of, and during that time they remained relevant. Many the bands from the late 80s and early 90s found themselves being overshadowed by grunge and rap and fading out by the mid-90s, regardless if they had the interpersonal conflicts that GnR did.

And every single remaining original member of the band was dealing with his own demons, whether they were in the form of drugs, alcohol or mental/emotional issues. All of those would have taken their toll sooner or later. Slash and Duff had their massive substance abuse problems and Axl had his emotional and mental issues when Niven was managing, too, for instance, and those things do eventually have a way of coming to a head. Whoever was managing the band wouldn't have changed how things turned out in the mid-90s, IMHO.

Edited June 6, 2016 by stella

[nightrain86]

7 hours ago, HollyAnn said:

Duff just said the same exact thing in his It's So Easy movie....  "Izzy, this is YOUR band"! 

 

 

 

Why Axl didn't sign off on it lol

[Slosh13]

I like listening to Alan Niven, he is eloquent and gets to the point, he is probably contradicting himself sometimes, but HE WAS THERE in the thick of things and had a birds eye view of the band. As much as I love Slash's playing, Izzy's rhythm is the heartbeat of GNR at that time. 

[Lumikki]

20 hours ago, Frey said:

And I don't know about super BFFs, but they did hang out together when they were young. I remember Izzy saying he has very vivid memories of spending the summer when they were 16 or 17 with Axl and just driving around through the fields and doing drugs all day. Izzy was also the one who convinced Axl to try and sing in his band. And he was close enough to Axl to know about his messed-up home life and his lack of success in getting pussy. Sounds like they were at least somewhat close to me.

11 hours ago, thunderram said:

Lastly, regarding Niven's assertions about Izzy's attitude toward Axl in the early days when Axl first came to LA, and their friendship, the fact that Izzy repeated decided to form groups with him says otherwise. Not only that, Izzy basically stole Axl away from Rapidfire. He obviously didn't have too much issue working with him back then.

All of this. Additionally, people like Chris Weber or Pamela Manning have also talked about how Izzy and Axl always used to hang out with each other, also in private and not just for band practice or whatever. Somebody even said they were "joined at the hip". And Izzy himself has referred to himself and Axl as a "package deal" and to Axl as his childhood friend and talked about how he was the only one who could calm Axl down and stuff when he had one of his freak-outs because they've been friends for so long.

I don't doubt Izzy's and Axl's relationship is complicated and was maybe even a bit unhealthy at times, but to say Izzy always hated Axl and wished he'd never had to deal with him is completely ridiculous. Izzy was the one who periodically checked-up on Axl and tried to call him, even when Axl wanted nothing to do with him. Doesn't sound like he was glad he didn't have to be around him anymore.

 

12 hours ago, Kira said:

Yes, Niven and Goldstein are both very unlikeable, that's the business I guess. 

Niven, I find to be a pompous blowhard who likes to inflate his importance to the band in those days.  Whether he was fired or not, I believe the band still would have spiraled out of control.  Despite his bluster, Niven had no more control over Axl than anyone else did. 

This article (and many others he's done) are just transparently full of bitterness towards Axl.  We all know Izzy is a great songwriter and was a really important part of the band.  That being said, he didn't have the stage/video presence that Axl and Slash did that propelled the band to international stardom.  He kind of had the luxury of being the "mysterious" one, who didn't have to participate in too many interviews or appearances. 

And if he really wanted to do RnRHF, why didn't he do it without Axl with the three other original members who were there? 

Every time I hear an audio interview with Niven, I just can't stand his tone.  He's totally slapable.

 

Good post, agree with everything. Especially the part about Niven being slapable.

And honestly, Izzy did have it easy in that regard. All the day-to-day work of running this band (which is at its core a business) and most of the promotion was done by Axl and Slash. Axl even said once that he and Slash took care of all the business-related things and then ran them by Duff to get his opinion. Even when he was strung-out, Slash has been said to be on the phone starting at 8 or 9 in the morning and doing business. Axl/Slash/Duff running this thing and taking care of the brand has been that way for many years now (although Duff is much more involved nowadays).

Meanwhile, Izzy was off somewhere driving his bikes or doing whatever. Certainly not doing interviews or anything. I get why Axl and Slash would be kind of resentful about that. I'd be too.

11 hours ago, ludurigan said:

Please give me a quote of any GNR member saying that Izzy was lazy on the songwriting and or recording sessions of UYI. I dont remember any of that.

I'm too lazy () to look for the actual quotes right now, but just off the top of my head I remember

- Axl saying that getting Izzy to work on the UYI records was like "pulling teeth" and that Izzy couldn't even be bothered to show up and do his own songs properly, and the only reason they even are on the record is because Axl wanted them on there

- Slash saying they all dreaded recording with Izzy and that Izzy made a lot of ridiculous demands

- Slash accused Izzy of turning in sloppily made demo-tapes (though Izzy said that sounded more like Slash repeating what Axl's saying)

Additionally (not specifically about the recording of UYI, but Izzy's alleged sloppyness/laziness in general):

- Slash complaining about how Izzy came in totally unprepared and not being able to play some songs when he stepped in for Gilby for a few shows. Said Izzy hadn't picked up a guitar in a year and it showed.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Lumikki

[Mr. Dude]

3 hours ago, stella said:

Some good points were made above. And as far as the band imploding when Niven was no longer managing them? Correlation doesn't equal causation. It's true that Goldstein supported Axl's wishes perhaps more than he should have, but it's also true that UYI, the videos from the albums and the tour were extremely successful. During that time period GnR was on top of the world. They stayed on the road for three years, which is just unheard of, and during that time they remained relevant. Many the bands from the late 80s and early 90s found themselves being overshadowed by grunge and rap and fading out by the mid-90s, regardless if they had the interpersonal conflicts that GnR did.

And every single remaining original member of the band was dealing with his own demons, whether they were in the form of drugs, alcohol or mental/emotional issues. All of those would have taken their toll sooner or later. Slash and Duff had their massive substance abuse problems and Axl had his emotional and mental issues when Niven was managing, too, for instance, and those things do eventually have a way of coming to a head. Whoever was managing the band wouldn't have changed how things turned out in the mid-90s, IMHO.

You could also say that GNR didn't make any money until Niven was fired and Goldstein was hired. That's a conveniently overlooked fact. They didn't even do a headline tour until 91 which means that for essentially 4 whole years they were the biggest band in the world yet hadn't capitalized on any of that fame or notoriety from a business standpoint. Some times you need more of a smoocher like Doug than a macho bulldong like Alan.

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Dude said:

You could also say that GNR didn't make any money until Niven was fired and Goldstein was hired. That's a conveniently overlooked fact. They didn't even do a headline tour until 91 which means that for essentially 4 whole years they were the biggest band in the world yet hadn't capitalized on any of that fame or notoriety from a business standpoint. Some times you need more of a smoocher like Doug than a macho bulldong like Alan.

Well that is a load of bollocks. Wasn't Axl inhabiting his Miami stronghold by then? I know Slash had bought a house also. And apparently the band made nothing on the Illusion tour as the money was all being pissed away on Roman parties, curfew fees and litigation.

[Mr. Dude]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well that is a load of bollocks. Wasn't Axl inhabiting his Miami stronghold by then? I know Slash had bought a house also. And apparently the band made nothing on the Illusion tour as the money was all being pissed away on Roman parties, curfew fees and litigation.

They didn't do the full scale front and back backstage band thing like the Stones do right off the bat though even then and they closed it out with a barebones tour in 93. I'd say the biggest success they had commercially on the road was wthout a doubt during the heralded Golstein era=all the way up until his departure they were a juggernaut as a live band. I'm not sure they would've been able to accomplish all they did with Niven as manager throughout.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Mr. Dude

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Mr. Dude said:

They didn't do the full scale front an back stage band thing right off the bat though even then and they closed it out with a barebones tour in 93. I'd say the biggest success they had commercially on the road was wthout a doubt during the heralded Golstein era.

Well Slash and Duff have both said that that tour leaked an enormous amount of money. In the end it is their publishing royalties from Appetite, their biggest selling and greatest album, which gave them their first big cash injection and have provided the most money to the present day. Guess who presided over the band when Appetite was made? Niven.

[Mr. Dude]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

 Guess who presided over the band when Appetite was made? Niven.

I don't dispute that, but I'm not sure Appetite makes my top 3 GNR records.

[DieselDaisy]

35 minutes ago, Mr. Dude said:

I don't dispute that, but I'm not sure Appetite makes my top 3 GNR records.

You're in the minority.

How the heck do you like Neil Young? You prefer your rockers to never release albums? Neil releases seemingly one a week, so much so that even I have a hard job keeping up! You like your rockers to never do interviews? Neil, while not the most prolific of interviewees, a man who likes his privacy also, has written an autobiography and agreed to multiple documentaries about his life, music and projects. You like your rockers to turn up late and cause riots? Neil is almost always punctual, and never provoked riots from his hippy legions.

Neil Young is the anti-Axl!!

[Mr. Dude]

54 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You're in the minority.

How the heck do you like Neil Young? You prefer your rockers to never release albums? Neil releases seemingly one a week, so much so that even I have a hard job keeping up! You like your rockers to never do interviews? Neil, while not the most prolific of interviewees, a man who likes his privacy also, has written an autobiography and agreed to multiple documentaries about his life, music and projects. You like your rockers to turn up late and cause riots? Neil is almost always punctual, and never provoked riots from his hippy legions.

Neil Young is the anti-Axl!!

I agree completely. I like divergent extremes.

 

I haven't kept up with the Neil records the last few years either. I still haven't dug too much into A Letter Home, Storytone, or the last couple with POTR.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Mr. Dude

[nelsontod]

On 6/5/2016 at 7:06 AM, -W.A.R- said:

i never knew Izzy sold heroin....you learn something every day

Izzy was a very organized heroin dealer in 88 on sunset.  I remember having to wait down stairs by the door until the i heard the door slam.  that was when i knew the dope would be under the mat of the apartment down the hall on the second floor.  he took measures to not get busted.

[Frey]

47 minutes ago, nelsontod said:

Izzy was a very organized heroin dealer in 88 on sunset.  I remember having to wait down stairs by the door until the i heard the door slam.  that was when i knew the dope would be under the mat of the apartment down the hall on the second floor.  he took measures to not get busted.

You bought dope from Izzy?! Well that's... something! 

[weaponsnflowers]

"It was Izzy's band". Well boo fucking hoo. I'm still going to enjoy the shit out of this former band of Izzy's. Have enjoyed it quite a lot without Izzy. Will continue to do so.

[Original GNR]

Interesting about the RRHOF. Although, if Izzy was that pissed at Axl regarding the hall of fame induction why would he join Axl on tour with NuGuns shortly after? 

[Un42nutzly]

Even if everything in this article is true as can be... it is still BIASED and there is no perspective. It's obvious there is a surmount amount of jealousy shown by Mr. Niven. This is if every little detail is true, which I doubt. I believe it is exaggerated and exacerbated. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Un42nutzly

[Billsfan]

Guns n roses was NEVER izzys band. The guys too careless to fight for anything. He can't even grow a set and finish the interview with Rolling stone that he was supposed to. 

Axl Rose could cure cancer and Niven would still rip him. I mean I guess if axl made me wait 3 hours for a show to start 20 years ago I'd be bitter and blindly side with Niven but I'll use common sense instead