Alan Niven - "It was Izzy's band" Article

[janrichmond]

9 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well that is a load of bollocks. Wasn't Axl inhabiting his Miami stronghold by then? I know Slash had bought a house also. And apparently the band made nothing on the Illusion tour as the money was all being pissed away on Roman parties, curfew fees and litigation.

I believe they HAD to add the 'Skin n Bones' leg to the tour to actually make some money. The 'Get In The Ring' leg part of the tour they only broke even because of all the things Daisy has listed.

[BadApples87]

First we have to ask the question as to what made Guns N Roses one of the greatest bands of all time?  To me, the sum is always greater than the individual parts.  Albeit, the parts are extraordinary in the case of the AFD lineup.

Each member of the AFD lineup is irreplaceable as to that album.  Axl and his dynamic vocal range, Slash and his blues/rock lead guitar, Izzy one of the greatest rythym guitarists of all-time, Duff and his punk influence, and Steven with his swing.  Each one made an impact that NOBODY else could have done.  There is magic in the mix.

As to the article, what Niven says is true.  When Izzy and Steven left, the mix changed, and the magic of AFD was no longer there.  Use Your Illusion I and II are great albums, but most of that stuff was written during the AFD era, so there you have it.

 

[DieselDaisy]

Somebody important to Guns N' Roses's success does not revere W. Axl Rose quite so much as some do here, and elevates Izzy to a position of importance, not usually countenanced here. I suggest you learn to accept that that person has a right to express their viewpoint.

[Silverburst80]

19 hours ago, RONIN said:

Izzy was not there for UYI as much because the band was either drunk/stoned 24/7 (Duff, Slash, Steven) or doing god knows what (Axl). So he did what any sane, sober person would do -- submitted all his parts and then peaced out. When the band finally got their shit together to record, Izzy wasn't around because he probably didn't give a shit anymore. He's said before in interviews that some of the stuff he submitted to the band was already 2 yrs old, possibly even older  -- they never had their shit together to actually do anything with Izzy's stuff until the guy had already mentally checked out.

Izzy during the AFD years actually had stage presence and he complemented the rest of the band. There can be only so many stars in a band and he knew that, giving Axl and Slash maximum opportunities to hog the limelight. Look at the band interviews from the AFD era, Izzy and Steven barely get a word in between Axl and Slash.

No-one wants to be around drunk people when they are sober but i don't think Slash ad Duff (Steven's was gone early)were trashed in the studio 24/7, perhaps a couple of drinks to loosen up and a toot of coke here or there but you cannot be trashed and sound like that, Slash in particular sounds razor sharp so when it was time to get serious they did, his heart and soul comes through on every bend and chord. Timing perhaps was an issue as far as getting everybody in at the same time but let's not forget Izzy would go AWOL for months on end where no-one could find him. I think one things for sure, if it was "Izzy's band" and he was steering the ship i highly doubt we would have got UYI's at all.

Sure dude checked out but he was quite happy to take our money with his half arsed efforts, i would think that would bother a pure rock n roller like Izzy.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Silverburst80

[stella]

12 hours ago, Un42nutzly said:

Even if everything in this article is true as can be... it is still BIASED and there is no perspective. It's obvious there is a surmount amount of jealousy shown by Mr. Niven. This is if every little detail is true, which I doubt. I believe it is exaggerated and exacerbated. 

Yes. Niven's putting forward a narrative that hasn't been shared by any of the other band members or insiders - not Slash or Duff, not Marc Canter, not Axl. And if Niven was showing this level of animosity during the time he was managing the band, or anything like it, it would easily explain why Axl did not want to work with him anymore. Any band needs a manager who is going to be in their corner and be an advocate, not an adversary, and if Niven intensely disliked one of the band members, it wasn't going to be possible for him to do his job. Doug Goldstein seemed to have more skill at working with all of the members of the band.

 

Also, Niven had them when they were an up and coming band of "urchins living under the street;" once they hit it big and their priorities and obligations changed, their needs and the management style that worked best for them might have changed, too.

[wasted]

On 5 June 2016 at 7:28 PM, ludurigan said:

lazy? by all accounts? what accounts?

the band worked very hard at his ideas? what?

 

Izzy basically handed in his songs. He recorded his parts. But Slash really worked up songs like DTJ, Bad Obssession, Perfect Crime, RNDTH. I think Izzy wanted a different direction. And like Izzy said the Illisions were so far from him. For songs like Coma, Estranged, Breakdown, Nov Rain. Even though he wrote, he wasn't fully involved in recording as Slash and Axl. I think Slash even played some rhythmn parts, doubled up leads to finish off songs. Izzy is really lost on those albums. Even Don't Cry seems to really get Axl n Slash'd. I imagine it as a demo Izzy wrote/stole. Izzy is even quoted complaining about Dust n Bones and how it got labelled. 

Then listen to ju ju hounds, he leaves it pretty simple. Almost like a more southern Stick Fingers. That's how he would have done GNR imo, like the way Slash wanted Smakepit as GNR. They have a whole different aesethetic to Axl or the label who want a polished metal album for the masses full of ballads. 

[wasted]

On 5 June 2016 at 7:28 PM, ludurigan said:

lazy? by all accounts? what accounts?

the band worked very hard at his ideas? what?

 

Izzy basically handed in his songs. He recorded his parts. But Slash really worked up songs like DTJ, Bad Obssession, Perfect Crime, RNDTH. I think Izzy wanted a different direction. And like Izzy said the Illisions were so far from him. For songs like Coma, Estranged, Breakdown, Nov Rain. Even though he wrote, he wasn't fully involved in recording as Slash and Axl. I think Slash even played some rhythmn parts, doubled up leads to finish off songs. Izzy is really lost on those albums. Even Don't Cry seems to really get Axl n Slash'd. I imagine it as a demo Izzy wrote/stole. Izzy is even quoted complaining about Dust n Bones and how it got labelled. 

Then listen to ju ju hounds, he leaves it pretty simple. Almost like a more southern Stick Fingers. That's how he would have done GNR imo, like the way Slash wanted Smakepit as GNR. They have a whole different aesethetic to Axl or the label who want a polished metal album for the masses full of ballads. 

[Lumikki]

3 hours ago, stella said:

Yes. Niven's putting forward a narrative that hasn't been shared by any of the other band members or insiders - not Slash or Duff, not Marc Canter, not Axl. And if Niven was showing this level of animosity during the time he was managing the band, or anything like it, it would easily explain why Axl did not want to work with him anymore. Any band needs a manager who is going to be in their corner and be an advocate, not an adversary, and if Niven intensely disliked one of the band members, it wasn't going to be possible for him to do his job. Doug Goldstein seemed to have more skill at working with all of the members of the band.

 

Also, Niven had them when they were an up and coming band of "urchins living under the street;" once they hit it big and their priorities and obligations changed, their needs and the management style that worked best for them might have changed, too.

And not by Izzy himself either, despite Niven pretending to be an expert on Izzy's feelings and thoughts.

I fully believe Alan Niven was showing at least some level of animosity towards Axl. He admitted he disliked Axl from the first day he met him. No way that didn't come through at least a little in his day-to-day dealings with Axl. Not to mention going behind Axl's back and scheming to have him kicked out with the other guys. If I were Axl, I would have felt threatened and very uncomfortable with the whole situation as well. Like you said, you want your manager to be your advocate and not your adversary.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Lumikki

[ludurigan]

1 hour ago, wasted said:

Izzy basically handed in his songs. He recorded his parts. But Slash really worked up songs like DTJ, Bad Obssession, Perfect Crime, RNDTH. I think Izzy wanted a different direction. And like Izzy said the Illisions were so far from him. For songs like Coma, Estranged, Breakdown, Nov Rain. Even though he wrote, he wasn't fully involved in recording as Slash and Axl. I think Slash even played some rhythmn parts, doubled up leads to finish off songs. Izzy is really lost on those albums. Even Don't Cry seems to really get Axl n Slash'd. I imagine it as a demo Izzy wrote/stole. Izzy is even quoted complaining about Dust n Bones and how it got labelled. 

Then listen to ju ju hounds, he leaves it pretty simple. Almost like a more southern Stick Fingers. That's how he would have done GNR imo, like the way Slash wanted Smakepit as GNR. They have a whole different aesethetic to Axl or the label who want a polished metal album for the masses full of ballads. 

I think you are correct.

Izzy wanted a simpler sound. I am pretty sure ALL the guys wanted a simpler sound except for Axl who really wanted to "move forward" and was gunning for that epic Queen-EltonJohnesque grand-songs or whatever.

And also Slash didnt mind going a bit crazy and complicated with songs like Coma.

We all know that nobody in the band was really excited to record the big ballads (November Rain, Estranged). Axl had to somehow "push" the guys to record those songs, he has said that in interviews. A few of the guys (if not all) have also said that they were not really into doing those songs.

I am not sure about Izzy not working on songs. I dont think it was that simple like "Izzy handed his songs" and "Slash really worked up songs". Izzy did what Izzy does. Write it, rehearse it, record it, done. Next one, please.

Slash added some great solos? Sure.

Axl added great vocals? Of course. Axl also added multiple vocals tracks, effects and farts? Yep. He took months to do it? Yep. 

Maybe those albums would sound (even) better had they had kept them simpler, huh?

Yes, Izzy is lost on those albums. But I dont think he is to blame. He recorded his parts and left.

The ones to blame are the ones who removed his guitar parts. If we can NOT listen to Izzy guitar on the Use Your Illusion albums thats because they were erased.

Not because Izzy was lazy, but because Slash (and probably Axl) thought it was a good idea to erase Izzy guitar and re-record his rhythm parts... without telling him about it... 

 

===

here a cool fact about how Izzy operates... 

(and also about Izzy involvement with the writing and recording of UYI)

 

DOUBLE TALKING JIVE = There is this 2011 Matt Sorum video interview for Brazilian show "Lokaos Rock Show" where he explains how Izzy came up with Double Talking Jive (song and lyrics). There was this news story (someone found "a head and an arm in a garbage can") and that was close to the studio where the band was recording. Matt tells how Izzy had left the recording sessions and went back to Indiana because, according to Matt, "they were drinking too much". One day Izzy phoned the guys and said "i got this song" (about the "head and an arm in a garbage can" story) and they went to the studio and did it in one take.

Now of course Matt is talking about the basic tracks. Then later Izzy and Axl worked together on the lyrics, probably to fine-tune them. Of course Slash "worked up" the song by adding a great solo to it and all. But I dont think its a case of izzy "handing the song". No. He wrote it, recorded it and left. You can check the story on the video below on the 6m45s mark...

 

 

[Mr. Dude]

2 hours ago, Lumikki said:

And not by Izzy himself either, despite Niven pretending to be an expert on Izzy's feelings and thoughts.

I fully believe Alan Niven was showing at least some level of animosity towards Axl. He admitted he disliked Axl from the first day he met him. No way that didn't come through at least a little in his day-to-day dealings with Axl. Not to mention going behind Axl's back and scheming to have him kicked out with the other guys. If I were Axl, I would have felt threatened and very unconfortable with the whole situation as well. Like you said, you want your manager to be your advocate and not your adversary.

No doubt.

[ludurigan]

On 6/6/2016 at 2:53 AM, Silverburst80 said:

Loads of stuff out there regarding Izzy's work ethic  for UYI.

Izzy played it live did he, well so he should it's a song by his band!

Slash wrote Locomotive at Izzy's apartment, Izzy has no writing credit for that song. It's Rose/Slash collaboration. And yes i did learn to play it, not bragging just emphasizing that it wouldn't be hard for a professional musician to take the time to lay down a guitar track for it, seeing it's how he earns a living and all.

Izzy worked mainly on the stuff that was written in the AFD era. Good on him for showing up for some of the newer tracks, the rest of the band worked on EVERY track well apart from My World.

14 years and Dust n Bones are Izzy's songs, or ideas or whatever the fuck you want to call them and from memory Axl said he had a hard time to get Izzy to even work on those!. Now if the other band members turned around and said we aren't going to bother playing on those that would be two less songs he'd have on the album. That would be kind of a shit attitude no?, kinda the point i'm trying to make.

Love Izzy but he seems to duck any criticism.

 

 

 

LOCOMOTIVE = Slash himself stated that he wrote Locomotive with Izzy. You can verify it on this french version of his book on google (couldnt find the english version)...

https://books.google.com.br/books?id=Z3PKCQAAQBAJ&pg=PT325&lpg=PT325&dq=slash+%22anthony+bozza%22+%22locomotive%22+%22izzy%22&source=bl&ots=d4cBai5um1&sig=Z8pNugfjTxo62AsAZ5flTLT1plo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7iZClmpLLAhVGhJAKHbQ0BaEQ6AEINjAE#v=onepage&q=slash%20%22anthony%20bozza%22%20%22locomotive%22%20%22izzy%22&f=false

...and you can also check it here another Slash quote where he says that he wrote Locomotive with Izzy...

MY NEXT HOME WAS A HOUSE IZZY AND I rented up in the Hollywood Hills, and that lasted for about a month. It was partially furnished with all the basics that one might need—beds, a microwave, all of it. We had fun while we were there and I also managed to write a lot; I wrote “Coma,” and the two of us wrote “Locomotive” in that house; there was some creativity going on.

Here = http://mreadz.com/new/index.php?id=2729&pages=54

 

 

[DieselDaisy]

3 hours ago, stella said:

Doug Goldstein seemed to have more skill at working with all of the members of the band.

Really? He was seen at the time as an Axl stooge, hated by Slash and Duff who both blamed him, fairly or unfairly, for the name grab.

PS

Never trust a man who wears t-shirts this tight,

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by DieselDaisy

[wasted]

15 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

I think you are correct.

Izzy wanted a simpler sound. I am pretty sure ALL the guys wanted a simpler sound except for Axl who really wanted to "move forward" and was gunning for that epic Queen-EltonJohnesque grand-songs or whatever.

And also Slash didnt mind going a bit crazy and complicated with songs like Coma.

We all know that nobody in the band was really excited to record the big ballads (November Rain, Estranged). Axl had to somehow "push" the guys to record those songs, he has said that in interviews. A few of the guys (if not all) have also said that they were not really into doing those songs.

I am not sure about Izzy not working on songs. I dont think it was that simple like "Izzy handed his songs" and "Slash really worked up songs". Izzy did what Izzy does. Write it, rehearse it, record it, done. Next one, please.

Slash added some great solos? Sure.

Axl added great vocals? Of course. Axl also added multiple vocals tracks, effects and farts? Yep. He took months to do it? Yep. 

Maybe those albums would sound (even) better had they had kept them simpler, huh?

Yes, Izzy is lost on those albums. But I dont think he is to blame. He recorded his parts and left.

The ones to blame are the ones who removed his guitar parts. If we can NOT listen to Izzy guitar on the Use Your Illusion albums thats because they were erased.

Not because Izzy was lazy, but because Slash (and probably Axl) thought it was a good idea to erase Izzy guitar and re-record his rhythm parts... without telling him about it... 

 

===

here a cool fact about how Izzy operates... 

(and also about Izzy involvement with the writing and recording of UYI)

 

DOUBLE TALKING JIVE = There is this 2011 Matt Sorum video interview for Brazilian show "Lokaos Rock Show" where he explains how Izzy came up with Double Talking Jive (song and lyrics). There was this news story (someone found "a head and an arm in a garbage can") and that was close to the studio where the band was recording. Matt tells how Izzy had left the recording sessions and went back to Indiana because, according to Matt, "they were drinking too much". One day Izzy phoned the guys and said "i got this song" (about the "head and an arm in a garbage can" story) and they went to the studio and did it in one take.

Now of course Matt is talking about the basic tracks. Then later Izzy and Axl worked together on the lyrics, probably to fine-tune them. Of course Slash "worked up" the song by adding a great solo to it and all. But I dont think its a case of izzy "handing the song". No. He wrote it, recorded it and left. You can check the story on the video below on the 6m45s mark...

 

 

There's that story. But there's also Axl saying what Izzy handed in was cool but it was 4 track or something. He thought they were done, Axl thought the fans want more. 

Yes, it's a little more complicated but in the context of the albums the first round of recordings weren't the finished product. I listen to Bad Obsession, Pretty Toed Up and Bad Apples and Slash and Dizzy seem involved. 

But not Lazy, it's a different aesethetic or way of doing things. But in the context of this huge stadium band maybe Izzy's way just wasn't going to work? I feel like going OTT with Axl worked on UYI. But then in the grunge era Ju ju Snakepit might have been ok. But what they seemed to do is just skip the mid era slump, which many might enjoy. 

GNR became Axl's vision of a big rock albums based on a decade of living in music. But always going bigger. Next time I expect huge Slash solos on epic songs again. I doubt they will get Brendan O Brien in for the cute GNR reunion album. 

[action]

new NUGNR is the best active GNR tribute band. that particular setup is capable and relevant when it comes to playing the old songs live. it's good enough. not out-of-this-world brilliant, but potent. anyone claiming it's less or more than that, is obviously having a laugh.

but when we're seriously contemplating a new album to match GNR's best work, then dont bother. without Izzy that wont happen.

Izzy IS GNR studio, while Axl + Slash ARE GNR live

[ludurigan]

1 hour ago, wasted said:

There's that story. But there's also Axl saying what Izzy handed in was cool but it was 4 track or something. He thought they were done, Axl thought the fans want more. 

Yes, it's a little more complicated but in the context of the albums the first round of recordings weren't the finished product. I listen to Bad Obsession, Pretty Toed Up and Bad Apples and Slash and Dizzy seem involved. 

But not Lazy, it's a different aesethetic or way of doing things. But in the context of this huge stadium band maybe Izzy's way just wasn't going to work? I feel like going OTT with Axl worked on UYI. But then in the grunge era Ju ju Snakepit might have been ok. But what they seemed to do is just skip the mid era slump, which many might enjoy. 

GNR became Axl's vision of a big rock albums based on a decade of living in music. But always going bigger. Next time I expect huge Slash solos on epic songs again. I doubt they will get Brendan O Brien in for the cute GNR reunion album. 

Yeah i see what you mean. I think they could have done it all. They could have done the Axl epic stuff, the Izzy simple rockers, Slash stuff, they could have done it all. They could release one triple album every 3-4 years, tour for 1-2 years and take 1-2 year breaks. They could have done so much.  

[wasted]

24 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

Yeah i see what you mean. I think they could have done it all. They could have done the Axl epic stuff, the Izzy simple rockers, Slash stuff, they could have done it all. They could release one triple album every 3-4 years, tour for 1-2 years and take 1-2 year breaks. They could have done so much.  

That's what I sort of thought about a reunion record or back then when Slash wants to do Snakepit as GNR, just go yeah! Now play a solo on This I Love. And let Izzy do his songs how he wants and put them on the album. 

But it seems like the songs have to through Axl's filter and that might be the problem. He has to feel it in someway. Like he appropriated Double Talking Jive to be about Warren Beatty or he could get into Bad Obsession. 

Izzy kind of got to sing his signing off songs Dust n Bones and 14 Years, even Pretty Tied Up has Izzy's version of the state of the band. I feel like those ad libs Axl does are him mocking the song in a way. It's weird how they would do this album full of songs about how everything sucks, I want to quit. But anyway I think Axl needs to buy into the whole package. But maybe Axl really isn't the right guy to sing Izzy Stradlin songs. So they realy did need to find what the next GNR album was. That's why I go back to AFD. Izzy riffs played by Slash, Axl singing. 

But because they all are sort of honest lyrically. They always move forwards. Even Izzy from album to album Izzy slides around. But Axl just seemed to take his heartbreak so far out. But it is always cool to have one I don't give a fuck Izzy song. 

I wonder if they know how easy it is to put together a GNR album. They just don't want to do anything that contrived artistically. I don't mean Izzy just saying we can write one in 2 weeks. But that they need to two epics, 2 ballads, two great rockers that work as singles. They need fast punk ones. Is that too much of formula and they just never accepted that. 

 

[wasted]

17 hours ago, BadApples87 said:

First we have to ask the question as to what made Guns N Roses one of the greatest bands of all time?  To me, the sum is always greater than the individual parts.  Albeit, the parts are extraordinary in the case of the AFD lineup.

Each member of the AFD lineup is irreplaceable as to that album.  Axl and his dynamic vocal range, Slash and his blues/rock lead guitar, Izzy one of the greatest rythym guitarists of all-time, Duff and his punk influence, and Steven with his swing.  Each one made an impact that NOBODY else could have done.  There is magic in the mix.

As to the article, what Niven says is true.  When Izzy and Steven left, the mix changed, and the magic of AFD was no longer there.  Use Your Illusion I and II are great albums, but most of that stuff was written during the AFD era, so there you have it.

 

But there are nuances to it. 

What made GNR legendary is the lightning in a bottle on AFD. Maybe even certain songs on UYI. 

But then they are huge because of the massive hits they had. Izzy isn't always pivotal in some of the hits, Matt drums on some big ones. So then it gets diluted. But those songs are very important. Nov Rain, YCBM, Civil War, Estranged.

Then there's touring which many guys have taken these songs to the fans. 

AFD without UYI videos and no touring over the years would still legendary like Nevermind the bollocks, but GNR would not be as successful and huge as they now. 

[dalsh327]

57 minutes ago, wasted said:

But there are nuances to it. 

What made GNR legendary is the lightning in a bottle on AFD. Maybe even certain songs on UYI. 

But then they are huge because of the massive hits they had. Izzy isn't always pivotal in some of the hits, Matt drums on some big ones. So then it gets diluted. But those songs are very important. Nov Rain, YCBM, Civil War, Estranged.

Then there's touring which many guys have taken these songs to the fans. 

AFD without UYI videos and no touring over the years would still legendary like Nevermind the bollocks, but GNR would not be as successful and huge as they now. 

Never Mind the Bollocks became a classic over the years but was never commercially successful, AFD was more like Bat Out of Hell where those songs were all over the radio. 

[Apollo]

To see people on here hating on Niven and calling him a liar makes me embarrassed to be an Axl diehard fan. 

I swear some of you would rather cut off your own hand than admit Axl isn't perfect. 

You can be a diehard fan of a musician and not think they are a God and that everything they do is perfect. Being a fan of somebody shouldn't eliminate your ability to think logically. 

[wasted]

16 minutes ago, dalsh327 said:

Never Mind the Bollocks became a classic over the years but was never commercially successful, AFD was more like Bat Out of Hell where those songs were all over the radio. 

But if that was it. Just AFD and by 1990 they were gone. AFD would still be legendary based on that. 

But not sure they would be as huge as they are globally without UYI videos and touring. 

[Apollo]

17 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Somebody important to Guns N' Roses's success does not revere W. Axl Rose quite so much as some do here, and elevates Izzy to a position of importance, not usually countenanced here. I suggest you learn to accept that that person has a right to express their viewpoint.

Well said. 

Hilarious to see people on here bashing Niven for being angry and biased and holding a grudge. WHO else fits that description? 

And if we disregarded the opinions of everybody that Axl fired or treated poorly...,,

 

[wasted]

4 hours ago, action said:

new NUGNR is the best active GNR tribute band. that particular setup is capable and relevant when it comes to playing the old songs live. it's good enough. not out-of-this-world brilliant, but potent. anyone claiming it's less or more than that, is obviously having a laugh.

but when we're seriously contemplating a new album to match GNR's best work, then dont bother. without Izzy that wont happen.

Izzy IS GNR studio, while Axl + Slash ARE GNR live

I see Izzy as more important writing wise.

But in the studio it was Slash and Axl.

Then live Axl with Slash doing what he could visually as guitarist. 

We are talking the whole catalog. 

Niven is naming Brownstone and Nightrain because Izzy wrote them. But he's failing to acknowledge it was Jungle, SCOM, PC and Slash that took those songs to another level. Admittedly Scom probably wouldn't exist ad a song without Izzy's chords. 

But Izzy is overlooked for YCBM and DC. Almost the whole of UYI I are Stradlin tunes. There's Dead Horse, LALD, Back off Bitch, Nov Rain and Coma that aren't. Maybe The Garden and Garden of Eden too aren't. Don't damn me. 

But the stuff that is Izzy sounds more AFD to me in feel. 

YCBM

dust n bones

perfect crime

you ain't the first

bad obsession

Civil War

Right Next Door to hell

Double talking jive

Don't Cry

pretty tied up

Bad apples

Coma

if you throw in Civil war, Coma to end each side you have another AFD style album. And use YCBM as an opener. 

Izzy probably felt he did enough for an album. Then Slash will do something with Axl like CW or Coma. 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by wasted
Details

[Frey]

1 hour ago, Apollo said:

To see people on here hating on Niven and calling him a liar makes me embarrassed to be an Axl diehard fan. 

I swear some of you would rather cut off your own hand than admit Axl isn't perfect. 

You can be a diehard fan of a musician and not think they are a God and that everything they do is perfect. Being a fan of somebody shouldn't eliminate your ability to think logically. 

Christ. 

Seems like being a fan has apparently eliminated your ability to think logically. Unlike you, I would not call myself a "diehard Axl fan". I wouldn't even call myself a fan of Axl, period (the closest I get to being anyone's "fan" in this band would be with Izzy). And I know for a fact that some of the posters in this thread who have been critical of Niven aren't exactly Axl nutswingers, either.

But hey, if someone disagrees with you, it must obviously be because they're blind Axl fanatics, convinced he's some perfect god.

Instead of, you know, people actually having valid opinions and points formed over years of listening to Niven's whining. I don't even like Axl and yet I can still see Niven's biased, bitter and an obnoxious guy in general (I'm not just going by this article, but by everything I've ever come across from him). 

We all know Axl's one mad ginger fuck, but the way Niven's endlessly painting him as the devil personified, while simultanously sucking Slash's and Izzy's dicks and praising them to the high heavens? Gimme a fucking break.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Frey

[RONIN]

The guitar interplay between Izzy and Slash is a huge reason why AFD sounds so great. Illusions is missing that and Slash doubling guitars only makes it more apparent.

Also, Izzy's last name is Stradlin'

That is badass.

Edited June 7, 2016 by RONIN

[stella]

7 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Really? He was seen at the time as an Axl stooge, hated by Slash and Duff who both blamed him, fairly or unfairly, for the name grab.

PS

Never trust a man who wears t-shirts this tight,

 

He wasn't as hardass as Niven, and the name grab had nothing to do with him. That was Axl's monster. In their books neither Slash or Duff seems to hate him.

And I'm not shallow enough to judge someone by the way they wear a T-shirt.