New album this year rumour

[delilahrose]

As quickly as this reunion tour came together, I'd bet a new album might follow sooner than expected! 

[Rovim]

2 hours ago, delilahrose said:

As quickly as this reunion tour came together, I'd bet a new album might follow sooner than expected! 

I expect it to not be soon like Axl said recently. Maybe not a decade, but I don't think it's gonna be in a year from now for example.

In 2002 Axl said soon is not the word and Chinese got released 6 years after he said that.

A lot of shit went wrong and now it's different circumstances with Slash and Duff, but Axl is probably gonna roll slow like he always does making sure it's right.

My best guess is 3 years best case scenario, 5 years is realistic, or never if we're really unlucky.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rovim

[wasted]

5 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

Probably will depend on how much they add to the songs.  If Slash lays down riffs and solos for them, then of course he will get writing credits.  And I'm sure Axl won't mind either, considering the fact that an album featuring both Slash and Duff has the probability of being 10x more successful than one without them.

You don't get credits for solos. Which is weird. 

I guess what I'm saying is Freese wrote the riff that Finck played on Chi dem. Slash doesn't get credit for playing it faster. 

So if Axl has another song built around a Freese riff ( he claimed to have 4 A listed tracks) Slash could come in and play it and basically not get credit. Same could said for songs written by Finck, Tobias, Bucket, Axl. 

But there is that song Fortus was working that originated with Slash. So Axl might have a stockpile of Slash ideas that he wants work on? 

This isn't even looking at lyric wise the split. CD is all Axl. UYI has a lot of Izzy lyrics. That's something they can't rectify that easily. Axl maybe has 4 Izzy tracks up his sleeve. 

So 4 tracks from each guy is the best we can do to get a record worthy of a reunion record. Slash helps Axl with 4 tracks. Axl sings of Slash/Duff material. Use 4 Izzy tracks to hit up the acoustic Stones thing. Get a blend of AFD, UYI and CD on one cd. Thank you and goodnight. 

[EvanG]

If you write a song, you've got the chords and the lyrics and vocal melody down, then basically you will get full songcredit. If you let someone else come up with a solo over your composition, or even let someone 'decorate' the song with lots of other instruments or little bits and pieces then, as long as it all derives from the original composition, you will still be able to get full songcredit. That's basically how it works. That's why a lot of bands, with not too much ego, credit the entire band for the music. If someone else comes up with an intro, or a bridge that isn't in the original composition, then they will actually add something new to the structure of the song and they will receive a songcredit for it.

Chad Smith, the drummer in the RHCP, has been getting songcredits for every single RHCP song since he joined the band... I'm sure he has come up with some drum beats and all, and maybe even some songs started that way, but I don't think he's ever really written a song for the Red Hot Chili Peppers. He even gets credit for the song Roadtrippin', which has no drums and was written when he wasn't even around.

Edited October 31, 2016 by EvanG

[Rovim]

7 hours ago, EvanG said:

If you write a song, you've got the chords and the lyrics and vocal melody down, then basically you will get full songcredit. If you let someone else come up with a solo over your composition, or even let someone 'decorate' the song with lots of other instruments or little bits and pieces then, as long as it all derives from the original composition, you will still be able to get full songcredit. That's basically how it works. That's why a lot of bands, with not too much ego, credit the entire band for the music. If someone else comes up with an intro, or a bridge that isn't in the original composition, then they will actually add something new to the structure of the song and they will receive a songcredit for it.

Chad Smith, the drummer in the RHCP, has been getting songcredits for every single RHCP song since he joined the band... I'm sure he has come up with some drum beats and all, and maybe even some songs started that way, but I don't think he's ever really written a song for the Red Hot Chili Peppers. He even gets credit for the song Roadtrippin', which has no drums and was written when he wasn't even around.

It's interesting the way it very often goes. You don't get the credits for a guitar solo. lyrics and vocal melodies/music written by...

Perhaps it goes far back, like the roots of it, when it began, there weren't elaborate guitar solos, at least you know... not something like Slash's November Rain solo, that whole Page thing.

It wasn't really a highlight of the genre, like in Blues, then Rock N' Roll developed it (Chuck Berry and others) and then Rock/Hard Rock spawned  actual guitar solos. Longer. and with distortion.

It's not right. A guitar solo is the most detailed melody you get in rock music. Classical music had many solos, it's all like a solo with structure, really instrumental music but it's so structured that there is no noodling if it's good. I guess it all falls under composer as well. Eddie didn't get no credits for the Beat It solo.  But that was a collaboration. Even still, it ain't right.

It's a shame cause what Slash does with his solos is like a singer, and Slash said he sees himself as a singer with his guitar. So his goal is to come up with lyrical, structured solos. Elaborate shit that should get credit.

It should have a category of it's own but maybe no one gives a fuck or at least enough to look for who wrote the solos in the fucked up booklet.

Double Talkin' Jibe: Music and Lyrics By Izzy Stradlin, electric guitar solo by Izzy Stradlin. Just doesn't seem right.

Slash was frustrated about Estranged and lack of writing credits.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rovim

[EvanG]

I'm quite ambivalent about it. On one hand I don't think it's fair, but on the other... if you write a song and someone else comes up with the solo, it's not quite fair to give that person half of the song credit. Basically that person plays a solo over a chord structure that he or she didn't write. 

Another example, with songs that contain strings or even an entire orchestra, it's not like the conductor who actually wrote the string arrangements receives a song credit. They get mentioned as ''string arrangements by....'' in the booklet. No matter how beautiful and significant the arrangements are, they are written around the original composition, that the conductor didn't write, hence not receiving a song credit.

[ZoSoRose]

This is why song writing lines always get so blurred. There's no right or wrong way, it's just up to the people who make the track

[Rovim]

44 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I'm quite ambivalent about it. On one hand I don't think it's fair, but on the other... if you write a song and someone else comes up with the solo, it's not quite fair to give that person half of the song credit. Basically that person plays a solo over a chord structure that he or she didn't write. 

Another example, with songs that contain strings or even an entire orchestra, it's not like the conductor who actually wrote the string arrangements receives a song credit. They get mentioned as ''string arrangements by....'' in the booklet. No matter how beautiful and significant the arrangements are, they are written around the original composition, that the conductor didn't write, hence not receiving a song credit.

But some songs are completely transformed thanks to the guitar solos. I think wasted said something about how Slash transformed, made it 10 times better when it came to all of Illusions. Why only get the credits when it's his tune that he brought in? it works against musicians like Slash I think cause all those other tunes enjoyed the Slash magic like November Rain and Estranged, but just because it is musically said on top of an existing idea, the foundation of the song, it is not credited quite the same. Thanks for the killer melodies.  It's not just about the money, you come up with something brilliant and yeah you kinda want the credit. It's due. It's just like vocal melodies and lyrics in a way, at least in Slash's case for example.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rovim

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

But some songs are completely transformed thanks to the guitar solos. I think wasted said something about how Slash transformed, made it 10 times better when it came to all of Illusions. Why only get the credits when it's his tune that he brought in? it works against musicians like Slash I think cause all those other tunes enjoyed the Slash magic like November Rain and Estranged, but just because it is musically said on top of an existing idea, the foundation of the song, it is not credited quite the same. It's not just about the money, you come up with something brilliant and yeah you kinda want the credit. It's due. It's just like vocal melodies and lyrics in a way, at least in Slash's case for example.

Yeah, that's why I'm ambivalent about it. It definitely shouldn't be credited the same, because that wouldn't be fair, but it gets complicated then. If one person writes the whole song and the guitarist only writes the solo on top of the already written song structure, then maybe it should be 90% to 10%, or something like that? Maybe more if the song has a lot of solo's like November Rain and Estranged, for example. That would probably be the most fair.

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

Yeah, that's why I'm ambivalent about it. It definitely shouldn't be credited the same, because that wouldn't be fair, but it gets complicated then. If one person writes the whole song and the guitarist only writes the solo on top of the already written song structure, then maybe it should be 90% to 10%, or something like that? Maybe more if the song has a lot of solo's like November Rain and Estranged, for example. That would probably be the most fair.

Slash should charge Axl per second on top of recognizing all of his guitar solos as "mini songs". First give Axl a taste for free you know... like a long tasty ballad solo with no credits, but then  no way I'm actually bringing my killer safari extravaganza to your show without shitloads of credits. Another Estranged cannot happen unless it's a sample solo. Especially if it's mostly CD ll and/or vault material like I think it's going to be and Slash will not really have a chance of bringing as much tunes as he did for Illusions if any and that was a double album as well. And no shitty booklet compliments either. It's insulting I'd imagine more than it's comforting.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rovim

[delilahrose]

11 hours ago, Rovim said:

I expect it to not be soon like Axl said recently. Maybe not a decade, but I don't think it's gonna be in a year from now for example.

In 2002 Axl said soon is not the word and Chinese got released 6 years after he said that.

A lot of shit went wrong and now it's different circumstances with Slash and Duff, but Axl is probably gonna roll slow like he always does making sure it's right.

My best guess is 3 years best case scenario, 5 years is realistic, or never if we're really unlucky.

He also said he wouldn't play again with Slash in this lifetime so ya never know!  Slash and Duff are always writing so who knows! Even if its just a single I'd be happy! I'm trying to be optimistic but I think you are right. It will prob be at least 3 years.

[Rovim]

15 minutes ago, delilahrose said:

He also said he wouldn't play again with Slash in this lifetime so ya never know!  Slash and Duff are always writing so who knows! Even if its just a single I'd be happy! I'm trying to be optimistic but I think you are right. It will prob be at least 3 years.

Those are 2 separate issues. This is not a problem with another human. This is his art. He is very precious about it. Always was probably. He indicated it's going to be a long process from now until release. (if at all)

Studies of past Axl Rose behavior show that soon really isn't, never was, or ever will be the word. It's just gonna take even more years than you specifically might believe. You gotta factor reality (or life), the way Axl does things and why, and finally the fact Slash and Duff are back in Guns/other life shit may occur and delay like say, a new AC/DC album may require Axl's banshee wail services.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rovim

[delilahrose]

3 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Those are 2 separate issues. This is not a problem with another human. This is his art. He is very precious about it. Always was probably. He indicated it's going to be a long process from now until release. (if at all)

Studies of past Axl Rose behavior show that soon really isn't, never was, or ever will be the word. It's just gonna take even more years than you specifically might believe.

I know. Wishful thinking!

[Rovim]

3 minutes ago, delilahrose said:

I know. Wishful thinking!

We're all on the same train.

[AlexC]

One thing that is promising depending on how you look at this comment. During the China Exchange interview Axl did back in June, someone asked him about how he feels now mentally compared to back in the day. During his answer, he said he's glad that he didn't write any new Guns material before the reunion (or something to that effect) as he feels he's in a better position now creatively than he's ever been. So yeah, it's contradictory to him saying that there's already an album's worth of material unreleased, but it could also mean that he fully intends to write a brand new album collaboratively with Slash and Duff.

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, AlexC said:

One thing that is promising depending on how you look at this comment. During the China Exchange interview Axl did back in June, someone asked him about how he feels now mentally compared to back in the day. During his answer, he said he's glad that he didn't write any new Guns material before the reunion (or something to that effect) as he feels he's in a better position now creatively than he's ever been. So yeah, it's contradictory to him saying that there's already an album's worth of material unreleased, but it could also mean that he fully intends to write a brand new album collaboratively with Slash and Duff.

I'm not sure... too high to check now but I think that may have been said about his choice of singing with clean vocals, not rasp and how he is in a better position now vocally to, presumably sing with FULL RASP like the apocalypse is upon us.

It's true, think about all those years he sang mostly clean or alternated between clean and rasp. Guns tunes are demanding vocally. It's definitely a good thing now. I think his choice to sing clean for Chinese was bold. It's like Slash switching to mainly Strats with low gain amps for the new Guns album. Some tunes would have never sounded this good with a less diverse choice of tone, like he tailored specific vocals to each and every vocal line in every song. I appreciate how good it sounds in some songs, others I would have preferred rasp, but he also used some rasp and mixed those together like in Better which sounds great. It allowed him to record the perfect vocals for the verses, even if the screaming part on top of Bucket's bridge riff could have been really cool fully raspy.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rovim

[AlexC]

4 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I'm not sure... too high to check now but I think that may have been said about his choice of singing with clean vocals, not rasp and how he is in a better position now vocally to, presumably sing with FULL RASP like the apocalypse is upon us.

It's true, think about all those years he sang mostly clean or alternated between clean and rasp. Guns tunes are demanding vocally. It's definitely a good thing now. I think his choice to sing clean for Chinese was bold. It's like Slash switching to Strats with low gain amps for the new Guns album. Some tunes would have never sounded this good with a less diverse choice of tone, like he tailored specific vocals to each and every vocal line in every song. I appreciate how good it sounds in some songs, others I would have preferred rasp, but he also used some rasp and mixed those together like in Better which sounds great. It allowed him to record the perfect vocals for the verses, even if the screaming part on top of Bucket's bridge riff could have been really cool fully raspy.

Yeah I remember him saying that as well but this was a separate comment he made. Regardless, he said some pretty cool things in that interview which bodes well for the future. Even if it was a massive opportunity that the people there missed by pussying out on some of the questions. As he most likely  would've answered them, since it was obvious that he had little to no control over the way it was conducted.

[Rovim]

3 hours ago, AlexC said:

Yeah I remember him saying that as well but this was a separate comment he made. Regardless, he said some pretty cool things in that interview which bodes well for the future. Even if it was a massive opportunity that the people there missed by pussying out on some of the questions. As he most likely  would've answered them, since it was obvious that he had little to no control over the way it was conducted.

He was also on "open mode" it seems. If I was in charge, I would sneak into the audience wearing a pink shirt and a green scarf and wait for when he's the most calm, then would ask something dangerous politely. Maybe something about his hobby of copy/pasting guitar icons, and if that is something he plans to also do with Slash for the next album should he record for him. I just want to know. Huge fan.

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rovim

[BorderlineCrazy]

4 hours ago, Rovim said:

But some songs are completely transformed thanks to the guitar solos. I think wasted said something about how Slash transformed, made it 10 times better when it came to all of Illusions. Why only get the credits when it's his tune that he brought in? it works against musicians like Slash I think cause all those other tunes enjoyed the Slash magic like November Rain and Estranged, but just because it is musically said on top of an existing idea, the foundation of the song, it is not credited quite the same. Thanks for the killer melodies.  It's not just about the money, you come up with something brilliant and yeah you kinda want the credit. It's due. It's just like vocal melodies and lyrics in a way, at least in Slash's case for example.

If my memory serves, back in the 90's Axl said they were using some method to figure out how to split the songwriting credits and that it was thought of by Slash.

[Rovim]

6 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

If my memory serves, back in the 90's Axl said they were using some method to figure out how to split the songwriting credits and that it was thought of by Slash.

But he was annoyed cause he didn't get credit for Estranged?

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rovim

[BorderlineCrazy]

11 minutes ago, Rovim said:

But he was annoyed cause he didn't get credit for Estranged?

Never heard of Slash being annoyed about it. It wouldn't surprise me, though, I'd be pissed off in that case.

This is what I'm talking about:

After a 17.5 percent commission to management, Axl and his band mates divvied up the money according to a specific formula, which Axl described once in court. During pre-production for Appetite, Axl said, "Slash devised a system of figuring out who wrote what parts of a song or part of a song. There were four categories, I believe. There was lyrics, melody, music - meaning guitars, bass and drums - and accompaniment and arrangement. And we split each one of those into twenty-five percent. When we had finished, I had forty-one percent, and other people had different amounts."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=32

Edited October 31, 2016 by BorderlineCrazy

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Never heard of Slash being annoyed about it. It wouldn't surprise me, though, I'd be pissed off in that case.

This is what I'm talking about:

After a 17.5 percent commission to management, Axl and his band mates divvied up the money according to a specific formula, which Axl described once in court. During pre-production for Appetite, Axl said, "Slash devised a system of figuring out who wrote what parts of a song or part of a song. There were four categories, I believe. There was lyrics, melody, music - meaning guitars, bass and drums - and accompaniment and arrangement. And we split each one of those into twenty-five percent. When we had finished, I had forty-one percent, and other people had different amounts."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=32

Yeah I know about that whole formula thing. I was just wondering about the Estranged credit thing cause Slash talked about it in "his" book. Perhaps the artistic significance of what he did on Estranged merited in his mind a more fitting gesture like crediting him for what he wrote for Axl. Actual credits. Can't quantify what he did on Estranged, but if you could, it will probably be he made it a lot better, so like... at least 25%. More like 35%.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rovim

[BorderlineCrazy]

2 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Yeah I know about that whole formula thing. I was just wondering about the Estranged credit thing cause Slash talked about it in "his" book. Perhaps the artistic significance of what he did on Estranged merited in his mind a more fitting gesture like crediting him for what he wrote for Axl. Actual credits. Can't quantify what he did on Estranged, but if you could, it will probably be he made a lot better, so like... at least 25%. More like 35%.

He came up with the guitar melodies which, unlike on November Rain (there are "only" the solos), are vital throughout the whole song. So yeah, I agree he should have gotten at least 25% and have his name written on the fn' booklet.

I'm gonna punch Axl tomorrow (?)

[EvanG]

Who says Slash came up with the guitar melodies? Does he mention that in the book? 

It could be possible that Axl showed Slash on his piano or keyboard the kind of melodies he wanted him to play on the guitar.

For example like this: 

 

[Rovim]

25 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Who says Slash came up with the guitar melodies? Does he mention that in the book? 

It could be possible that Axl showed Slash on his piano or keyboard the kind of melodies he wanted him to play on the guitar.

For example like this: 

 

Gilby talked about it, how unique Slash's Estranged riff was and how he thought not many guitar players come up with shit that sound that original. I believe it was in the making fuckin' videos - Estranged doc that was officially released.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rovim