New album this year rumour

[EvanG]

2 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

If Axl felt that way, he wouldn't of let Slash and Duff (almost) completely change Better and he sure as heck wouldn't of liked what Slash did with the TIL solo.....and he's been on record saying that he's really pleased that Slash and Duff took it upon themselves to learn the songs and make the songs their own.

 

The only way Axl would release a new Guns record without Slash and Duff is if Slash and Duff don't want to record new music with GN'R. That's the only way that's happening at this point and all signs seem to point to that most likely not being the case.

Changing a song a little bit live doesn't help your argument, that happens all the time in bands. I can imagine that they already have so much stuff recorded and I don't think Axl will say to Slash... ''go ahead, re-arrange everything and we'll start from almost scratch again''... on songs he's been working on for god knows how long already, knowing what kind of a perfectionist he is. That doesn't make sense. And no way Axl will throw away the songs he's been working on for so very long just because Slash and Duff are back.  Even if Slash and Duff will play on some of those songs and maybe even 'change' or 'add' a few licks and riffs, it will still be Axl's songs foremost. And whoever co-wrote them. It's not like they'd be Slash's creations. 

But who knows... we're all just guessing here. We'll see once this fucker will eventually be released.

Edited October 29, 2016 by EvanG

[sanity_lost]

Just a random thought to throw out there for the wolves to gnaw on:

Axl said in the Q&A that he has gone back to writing lyrics/melody first. Doesn't that indicate that he has been working on new songs that aren't "Chinese leftovers"?

He has said in the past that Chinese was pretty much written in a specific way. That the music was created to his exacting standards first then he wanted to create lyrics/melodies to live up to what was there.  Since Chinese II is done and is supposed to be part of the cohesive whole wouldn't it have been written in the same way as Chinese I? Anything written Melody/lyrics first wouldn't be Chinese Leftovers in that case?

What, exactly, is a left over? How would we tell? Is it anything that has writing credits by people who were part of the previous version of guns even if the song wasn't written to be part of the Chinese Albums? What about if they completely strip everything except for lyrics from a song that was slated to be part of CD that got cut last minute and wrote completely new music around it?

[Mendez]

22 minutes ago, sanity_lost said:

Just a random thought to throw out there for the wolves to gnaw on:

Axl said in the Q&A that he has gone back to writing lyrics/melody first. Doesn't that indicate that he has been working on new songs that aren't "Chinese leftovers"?

He has said in the past that Chinese was pretty much written in a specific way. That the music was created to his exacting standards first then he wanted to create lyrics/melodies to live up to what was there.  Since Chinese II is done and is supposed to be part of the cohesive whole wouldn't it have been written in the same way as Chinese I? Anything written Melody/lyrics first wouldn't be Chinese Leftovers in that case?

What, exactly, is a left over? How would we tell? Is it anything that has writing credits by people who were part of the previous version of guns even if the song wasn't written to be part of the Chinese Albums? What about if they completely strip everything except for lyrics from a song that was slated to be part of CD that got cut last minute and wrote completely new music around it?

With CD, the only reason the music was written first was because only the band (Robin, Tobias, Dizzy, Tommy, Josh, then later Brain, and Bucket. Fortus says the majority of it was done when he joined) were jamming in the studio for 2-4 years, with Axl being sent discs of those sessions.

 

Axl wasn't  there for the majority of the song writing (with the exception of the core piano songs he wrote and played, being Prostitute and TIL).

Edited October 29, 2016 by Mendez

[EvanG]

55 minutes ago, Mendez said:

With CD, the only reason the music was written first was because only the band (Robin, Tobias, Dizzy, Tommy, Josh, then later Brain, and Bucket. Fortus says the majority of it was done when he joined) were jamming in the studio for 2-4 years, with Axl being sent discs of those sessions.

 

Axl wasn't  there for the majority of the song writing (with the exception of the core piano songs he wrote and played, being Prostitute and TIL).

I don't know who wrote exactly what when it comes down to the music, but I think Catcher in the Rye, Street of Dreams, Madagascar, those kind of songs were probably all written around Axl's piano compositions, just like November Rain, Estranged and Breakdown on the UYI albums.

Edited October 29, 2016 by EvanG

[Silent Jay]

Chinese Democracy is almost ten years old. It's stunning how axl goes beyond the word anticipation. The waiting for CDII, it must be real good.

[megaguns1982]

I really hope that we get new music but I'm not holding my breath.

i hope they scrap all of the CD left overs and hit a studio for 3 months and throw something together.

the one thing that excites me is that it's not being billed as a farewell tour which makes new music much more likely

[wasted]

7 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

Yeah, but the thing is...it wouldn't be CDII.  Even if they did 15 songs that were all initially written by Axl during the CD era, they'd sound completely different the moment Slash got a hold of them...and yes, for the better.  And essentially would be similar but different/unique songs. 

Slash would create riffs for them, he'd  create solos for them.  Duff would create baselines for them, etc. etc. etc. There certainly wouldn't be a need to have 12 layers in each song like we hear in CD.  There wouldn't be a need to have a million synths, fake beats, etc.  Maybe a few songs would sound similar to what they would have sounded like had he released them on his own but the majority would sound 10x better.....and Axl knows that.  A song isn't a song until all the riffs, solos, baselines, drum tracks, etc are done. 

And I think it's irrelevant who wrote what, when.  Axl probably helped write the majority their entire catalogue during the AFD/Illusions era....but he certainly didn't write it all himself.  It's called collaboration.  How many songs in the GN'R catalogue is Axl Rose the sole person on the writing credits?

 

 

It would sound different. But Slash never wrote all the riffs on any GNR album. Even on AFD a 7 tracks are Izzy riffs. On UYI it's a 3 way split with Slash writing Garden of eden, Don't damn me, Civil war, Coma, Locomotive. But he definitely brought the whole thing to life, created UYI from the material there. 

So it's kind of a fallacy, Slash will write new music for Axl. Maybe but it's more likely he will work on existing songs like he mostly always did in Guns. That's why Guns songs have more dimensions to them, it's a collab with Axl often taking bits from here and there. Possibly why Izzy and Slash split. They never heard their song, it always went through Axl's filter. If he didn't sing there stuff got lost. 

Why CD took so long is not so much writing it was recording it so rec company or Axl thought it was right. Slash does that great, he produces cohesive assured rock records solo or VR. They lack song writing elements sometimes but still solid rock songs. The CD project was too open ended with no set idea what it should be. 

What Axl was trying to do was use alternative guitarists to make a GNR album, mix almost contradictory elements. Songwriting wise it's strong, soundwise it's interesting, but it lacks the hard rock sound Slash brings that so many associate with a GNR product. 

So working on the bulk of CD era/Axl material and bringing a few songs himself is the normal GNR way. Slash will produce a great album from that material. One that GNR fans instantly accept. 

The main difference will be when they are done people will hear it and have no question it sounds like GNR.

Which was probably never the case with CD, through 3 producers they probably always thought it doesn't sound quite right. Without that there was hesitancy around it, to release it and promote it. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by wasted
Slash for prez

[wasted]

2 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

Chinese Democracy is almost ten years old. It's stunning how axl goes beyond the word anticipation. The waiting for CDII, it must be real good.

Sometimes it feels like that Sex pistols maxim "the less we do, the more they want us". Probably a misquote by me but something like that. 

Rec company seems to put out a GNR cd every 4-5 years though. 

99 - Live Era

2004 - GH

2008 - CD

2012 - Appetite for Democracy blu ray 

2016 - Reunion tour. Merch. 

[Mendez]

5 hours ago, EvanG said:

I don't know who wrote exactly what when it comes down to the music, but I think Catcher in the Rye, Street of Dreams, Madagascar, those kind of songs were probably all written around Axl's piano compositions, just like November Rain, Estranged and Breakdown on the UYI albums.

Axl wrote the main horn "riff"/pattern for Madagascar. Going with the pattern for GNRs studio piano: if they play it (in the studio), they most likely wrote it. Dizzy plays the Street of Dreams piano, Axl plays Catcher's piano iirc. Paul Tobias (possibly) wrote and plays the piano on TWAT. Axl plays Prostitutes piano. I think Dizzy plays If the World's piano.

[gunsguy]

I don't see this year but they are spending alot of time together in an airplane...

[shjtjustgotreal]

6 minutes ago, gunsguy said:

I don't see this year but they are spending alot of time together in an airplane...

orgy

[Italian girl]

7 hours ago, sanity_lost said:

Just a random thought to throw out there for the wolves to gnaw on:

Axl said in the Q&A that he has gone back to writing lyrics/melody first. Doesn't that indicate that he has been working on new songs that aren't "Chinese leftovers"?

He has said in the past that Chinese was pretty much written in a specific way. That the music was created to his exacting standards first then he wanted to create lyrics/melodies to live up to what was there.  Since Chinese II is done and is supposed to be part of the cohesive whole wouldn't it have been written in the same way as Chinese I? Anything written Melody/lyrics first wouldn't be Chinese Leftovers in that case?

 

Good point

[wasted]

But that could be Axl saying here are the songs ( might be from the CD era) to Slash and Duff, basically Axl vocals, Frank and Fortus parts, now do your bass and guitar parts. It's almost denying Slash to write full songs and Axl to sing on them. Probably good idea as it would take forever. 

So once Axl shows Slash the basic demos it's easy for Slash to get it done. So the song writing is done. 

It definitely stops Snakepit situation happening when Slash knocks up some songs then Axl doesn't feel like singing on them. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by wasted
Spin ninja

[megaguns1982]

I really doubt the record label will let them release anything but a genuine reunion album.

if I worked for the label and Axl came in with CD2 Id knock it back.

didnt CD bomb? I wouldn't know

[wasted]

1 hour ago, megaguns1982 said:

I really doubt the record label will let them release anything but a genuine reunion album.

if I worked for the label and Axl came in with CD2 Id knock it back.

didnt CD bomb? I wouldn't know

Theres a rumor the label already rejected CD II in 2010 cos of it's association with CD. 

They will definitely want to call it something else. Maybe even Axl will strip CD for parts. Here's my 3 songs. 

But Rock or Bust sold like 170,000 first week sales. The recompany probably dont give a fuck. If Slash and Duff are on a few songs on CD II it will sell 300k. 

 

1 hour ago, megaguns1982 said:

I really doubt the record label will let them release anything but a genuine reunion album.

if I worked for the label and Axl came in with CD2 Id knock it back.

didnt CD bomb? I wouldn't know

Theres a rumor the label already rejected CD II in 2010 cos of it's association with CD. 

They will definitely want to call it something else. Maybe even Axl will strip CD for parts. Here's my 3 songs. 

But Rock or Bust sold like 170,000 first week sales. The recompany probably dont give a fuck. If Slash and Duff are on a few songs on CD II it will sell 300k. 

 

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, megaguns1982 said:

didnt CD bomb? I wouldn't know

 

[Silent Jay]

14 hours ago, wasted said:

Sometimes it feels like that Sex pistols maxim "the less we do, the more they want us". Probably a misquote by me but something like that. 

Rec company seems to put out a GNR cd every 4-5 years though. 

99 - Live Era

2004 - GH

2008 - CD

2012 - Appetite for Democracy blu ray 

2016 - Reunion tour. Merch. 

Axl promised us the new album won't take as long as Chinese. And it's bullshit. Since Spaghetti? Fifteen years. but since Oh My God, nine years.

So we have to wait a couple of more years, because of this 'reunion' and that Axl felt right to tour five years with Dj and Bumblefoot. CDII was done in 2014 all right. Instead Axl wanted to do Coachella in 2015? I think he doesn't care anymore. Gonna cashgrab the world with my old pals.

I have a great name for the next album, 2020 Vision.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Silent Jay

[Ace Nova]

21 hours ago, EvanG said:

Changing a song a little bit live doesn't help your argument, that happens all the time in bands. I can imagine that they already have so much stuff recorded and I don't think Axl will say to Slash... ''go ahead, re-arrange everything and we'll start from almost scratch again''... on songs he's been working on for god knows how long already, knowing what kind of a perfectionist he is. That doesn't make sense. And no way Axl will throw away the songs he's been working on for so very long just because Slash and Duff are back.  Even if Slash and Duff will play on some of those songs and maybe even 'change' or 'add' a few licks and riffs, it will still be Axl's songs foremost. And whoever co-wrote them. It's not like they'd be Slash's creations. 

But who knows... we're all just guessing here. We'll see once this fucker will eventually be released.

Yeah and that's how they write most of their music.  Axl has a song, Slash (or whoever else) adds their parts to it. Or if Slash has a song, then Axl adds his parts to it, etc.  And it becomes a completed song.  Some songs may be influenced by Axl more than others (especially the ballads) but the majority of them are collaborations.

16 hours ago, wasted said:

It would sound different. But Slash never wrote all the riffs on any GNR album. Even on AFD a 7 tracks are Izzy riffs. On UYI it's a 3 way split with Slash writing Garden of eden, Don't damn me, Civil war, Coma, Locomotive. But he definitely brought the whole thing to life, created UYI from the material there. 

So it's kind of a fallacy, Slash will write new music for Axl. Maybe but it's more likely he will work on existing songs like he mostly always did in Guns. That's why Guns songs have more dimensions to them, it's a collab with Axl often taking bits from here and there. Possibly why Izzy and Slash split. They never heard their song, it always went through Axl's filter. If he didn't sing there stuff got lost. 

Why CD took so long is not so much writing it was recording it so rec company or Axl thought it was right. Slash does that great, he produces cohesive assured rock records solo or VR. They lack song writing elements sometimes but still solid rock songs. The CD project was too open ended with no set idea what it should be. 

What Axl was trying to do was use alternative guitarists to make a GNR album, mix almost contradictory elements. Songwriting wise it's strong, soundwise it's interesting, but it lacks the hard rock sound Slash brings that so many associate with a GNR product. 

So working on the bulk of CD era/Axl material and bringing a few songs himself is the normal GNR way. Slash will produce a great album from that material. One that GNR fans instantly accept. 

The main difference will be when they are done people will hear it and have no question it sounds like GNR.

Which was probably never the case with CD, through 3 producers they probably always thought it doesn't sound quite right. Without that there was hesitancy around it, to release it and promote it. 

I think we're pretty much in agreement...basically saying the same thing.

[EvanG]

4 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

Yeah and that's how they write most of their music.  Axl has a song, Slash (or whoever else) adds their parts to it. Or if Slash has a song, then Axl adds his parts to it, etc.  And it becomes a completed song.  Some songs may be influenced by Axl more than others (especially the ballads) but the majority of them are collaborations.

I think we're pretty much in agreement...basically saying the same thing.

My point was that it's not going to be a full collaboration as you described it earlier. It's not gonna be an AFD or UYI where Slash and Duff could really do their thing creatively speaking. It's going to be Axl's songs, and whoever from the previous GnR version co-wrote them. It won't be like that until they start from scratch but Axl won't be throwing away the stuff he's been working on for all this time.

[wasted]

6 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

Axl promised us the new album won't take as long as Chinese. And it's bullshit. Since Spaghetti? Fifteen years. but since Oh My God, nine years.

So we have to wait a couple of more years, because of this 'reunion' and that Axl felt right to tour five years with Dj and Bumblefoot. CDII was done in 2014 all right. Instead Axl wanted to do Coachella in 2015? I think he doesn't care anymore. Gonna cashgrab the world with my old pals.

I have a great name for the next album, 2020 Vision.

The timing of saying we have CD II and remix and we are looking into what do with them, to then the reunion happening. I guess Duff coming into the picture must have been it. 

Maybe Ron quitting is key to understanding. If he quit for health reasons or just because they weren't ever going to put out the material in his eyes. Or did they all quit to make way for this reunion. 

It does seem more likely to be planned Axl knew it was possible. Since whenever Slash went up to his house, so in a way what Slash said about promo for CD was right. Axl wasn't advertising this situation. Maybe the rec company were always why don't you call Slash. 

So CD II might be done since 2008 and just been tampering with it. Maybe Fortus was Axl's choice for more work. But the label just were never on board, hoping Axl caves.

So with all that gone, it looks more like 2018, 19...2020 seems like a nice round number.

Let's shoot for 2021. Rock in Rio. 

[wasted]

5 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

Yeah and that's how they write most of their music.  Axl has a song, Slash (or whoever else) adds their parts to it. Or if Slash has a song, then Axl adds his parts to it, etc.  And it becomes a completed song.  Some songs may be influenced by Axl more than others (especially the ballads) but the majority of them are collaborations.

I think we're pretty much in agreement...basically saying the same thing.

Only difference is Slash won't come in and write songs and riffs for Axl. CD is very similar to UYI writing wise with various writers, there's just no Slash on lead. 

I doubt the next GNR will be a Slash solo record with Axl singing. That swings you back round to some material Axl already has. There's that song Fortus has worked on that originated with Slash. Then Axl has 4 Izzy songs knocking around. Plus whatever ever he's got that he showed Slash. 

But you might be right that the perception is Slash comes back and has written with Axl. This is what people think and if that's what they need to listen to a GNR record. So be it. 

The weird thing might be hearing Slash write or play stuff like Chi dem or Better. If Slash had come in and recorded his version of Chi dem, Better or Sorry in 2008 and that's what we got on the cd. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by wasted
Glittering

[wasted]

55 minutes ago, EvanG said:

My point was that it's not going to be a full collaboration as you described it earlier. It's not gonna be an AFD or UYI where Slash and Duff could really do their thing creatively speaking. It's going to be Axl's songs, and whoever from the previous GnR version co-wrote them. It won't be like that until they start from scratch but Axl won't be throwing away the stuff he's been working on for all this time.

But would Slash get writing credits for the new versions of Chi dem and Better?

It might come down to royalties. Slash and Duff will both want some kind of writing credits. 

This is possibly why Ron and Dj left. They can make more money from writing songs elsewhere? So it wasn't a big wrench to make way for Slash. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by wasted
Rollin'

[Ace Nova]

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

My point was that it's not going to be a full collaboration as you described it earlier. It's not gonna be an AFD or UYI where Slash and Duff could really do their thing creatively speaking. It's going to be Axl's songs, and whoever from the previous GnR version co-wrote them. It won't be like that until they start from scratch but Axl won't be throwing away the stuff he's been working on for all this time.

 

No, of course he isn't going to throw it away but I'm sure he'd be happy to see what Slash and Duff will add to it, like he stated.  And that's collaboration.  Some songs they may not do much to, like you're saying but others they may....we really don't know what they'll do until they actually do it. 

[Ace Nova]

1 hour ago, wasted said:

But would Slash get writing credits for the new versions of Chi dem and Better?

It might come down to royalties. Slash and Duff will both want some kind of writing credits. 

This is possibly why Ron and Dj left. They can make more money from writing songs elsewhere? So it wasn't a big wrench to make way for Slash. 

Probably will depend on how much they add to the songs.  If Slash lays down riffs and solos for them, then of course he will get writing credits.  And I'm sure Axl won't mind either, considering the fact that an album featuring both Slash and Duff has the probability of being 10x more successful than one without them.

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, Kasanova King said:

 

No, of course he isn't going to throw it away but I'm sure he'd be happy to see what Slash and Duff will add to it, like he stated.  And that's collaboration.  Some songs they may not do much to, like you're saying but others they may....we really don't know what they'll do until they actually do it. 

Collaboration with perhaps 5% input of Slash in total, that's how I imagine it then, which is fine... but it's not going to be an ''old'' GnR collaboration with equal input because that wouldn't make sense with probably a record full of songs one of them has been working on for maybe two decades. So, I think, it will still be CD2 for the most part. But that's ok.

1 hour ago, Kasanova King said:

Probably will depend on how much they add to the songs.  If Slash lays down riffs and solos for them, then of course he will get writing credits.  And I'm sure Axl won't mind either, considering the fact that an album featuring both Slash and Duff has the probability of being 10x more successful than one without them.

I don't know... Slash didn't get song credits for those Estranged and November Rain solo's either.

Edited October 31, 2016 by EvanG