Is West Arkeen's passing one (of many) reasons it's hard for these guys to do another album?

[life_247]

On 15/03/2017 at 6:39 AM, wasted said:

Axl's number is a little misleading because he has lyrics on a lot. 

It does show that Duff was involved much more than widely known. 

Izzy is the big loss. 

But Axl, Slash, Duff should be able to do a record with Fortus. 

I like Fortus I really do - but most of the stuff he's worked on writing wise has been erm - average. Now he's spent most of his career dropping into bands and playing live - so he's pretty perfect for his role in Guns at the moment.

Bare in mind he managed 0 writing credits on CD and managed to only make it onto 5 tracks (4 of those still featuring Tobais !). I'm not super confident that he's just going to be able to write a record with Slash & Duff just because he's of a compatible style. Furthermore most recently Slash, Duff and Axl have essentially been working as Solo artists rather than in fully collabrative bands - which could create a little butting of heads.

However Slash is a trooper when it comes to writing so I'm hoping he's been putting riffs and songs together for the other guys to work on. After the tour they can try and if it doesn't work swap the other people out (we assume Axl/Slash/Duff should be able to work together on music)

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, wasted said:

Why with a german accent. 

Das ist blöd.

[Blackstar]

2 hours ago, MADDOGJONES said:

Axl got performance credits for the songs he performed on, as they all did. Axl didn't get writing credits on Brownstone or Think About You.

According to the liner notes, all songs are credited to GnR. All five of them have writing credits for all the songs.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Blackstar

[Słash]

16 hours ago, xBrownstonex said:

The money argument just becomes stupid and boring at a certain point. Doesnt make you look very grown up, to be honest.

and the posts you make, it doesn't make up look grown up either. 

Seriously get a life man, stop quoting me in everything, I am honestly not interested in you. 

[MADDOGJONES]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

According to the liner notes, all songs are credited to GnR. All five of them have writing credits for all the songs.

If what you're saying is the case why did the band submit SPECIFIC songwriting credits to ASCAP?

"All songs by Guns N Roses" doesn't mean that each and every member has credit on each and every song or that each and every member contributed to songwriting on each and every song. All songs are by Guns N Roses on the album, who's saying different? All songs were not written by all members (obviously). STEVEN ADLER HAS NO WRITING CREDITS IN GNR. That is a fact, sorry if you're not comfortable with the reality of the situation, but it is what it is. Song credits are not recorded in this way. "All songs by Guns N Roses" is clearly a statement of solidarity, not a an official record of songwriting credits. That would be, ya know, ASCAP.

Argue against me as much as you want but I'm correct and you are incorrect. I'm speaking about a matter of fact that if some of you weren't so lazy could confirm or deny by visiting ASCAP yourselves instead of parroting what you think you know already. The problem is you don't want to learn what's true and what isn't you just want to believe what you already believe. Seems strange to me anyone would be like that but they seem common in some corners of the web, I would think as a fan of the band you would want to learn about the band, not buy into horseshit, but I guess not.

 

Edited March 16, 2017 by MADDOGJONES

[TheSeeker]

For comparison, here's a list of everyone who has a performance credit for officially released Guns N' Roses songs, and the number of songs they have a performance credit for (does not include covers):

Axl Rose - 60

Slash - 46

Izzy Stradlin - 46

Duff McKagan - 46

Dizzy Reed - 41

Matt Sorum - 27

Steven Adler - 19

Robin Finck - 14

Bumblefoot - 14

Chris Pitman - 14

Tommy Stinson - 13

Bryan Mantia - 13

Buckethead - 12

Paul Tobias - 9

Frank Ferrer - 5

Richard Fortus - 5

Shannon Hoon - 5

West Arkeen - 5

Howard Teman - 5

Marco Beltrami - 5

Rik Richards - 4

Ray Grden - 4

Paul Buckmaster - 4

Johann Langlie - 2

Michael Monroe - 1

Reba Shaw - 1

Stuart Bailey - 1

Tim Doyle - 1

Alice Cooper - 1

Bruce Foster - 1

Suzy Katayama - 1

Sebastian Bach - 1

Patti Hood - 1

[TheSeeker]

6 minutes ago, MADDOGJONES said:

If what you're saying is the case why did the band submit SPECIFIC songwriting credits to ASCAP?

"All songs by Guns N Roses" doesn't mean that each and every member has credit on each and every song or that each and every member contributed to songwriting on each and every song. All songs are by Guns N Roses on the album, who's saying different? All songs were not written by all members (obviously). STEVEN ADLER HAS NO WRITING CREDITS IN GNR. That is a fact, sorry if you're not comfortable with the reality of the situation, but it is what it is. Song credits are not recorded in this way. "All songs by Guns N Roses" is clearly a statement of solidarity, not a an official record of songwriting credits. That would be, ya know, ASCAP.

Argue against me as much as you want but I'm correct and you are incorrect. I'm speaking about a matter of fact that if some of you weren't so lazy could confirm or deny by visiting ASCAP yourselves instead of parroting what you think you know already. The problem is you don't want to learn what's true and what isn't you just want to believe what you already believe. Seems strange to me anyone would be like that but they seem common in some corners of the web, I would think as a fan of the band you would want to learn about the band, not buy into horseshit, but I guess not.

 

https://www.ascap.com/ace#ace/writer/167056562/ADLER STEVEN

All his credits are right there, dude

[MADDOGJONES]

2 minutes ago, TheSeeker said:

https://www.ascap.com/ace#ace/writer/167056562/ADLER STEVEN

All his credits are right there, dude

Those are the publishing credits Axl gave to Adler to stop him from destroying the band.

Since you're so concerned about fairness how do you feel about Steven being given a share of the publishing of songs he didn't write because he was going to sabotage Appetite if the other members didn't give him money he wasn't entitled to from songs he didn't write?

[MADDOGJONES]

@TheSeeker

You are aware that even Slash has stated that Steven Adler wrote ZERO songs in GNR, right?

Slash came up with a formula to determine what everyone in the band deserved. By that formula, Slash determined that Axl was responsible for writing approximately 41.7% of Appetite and Adler was responsible for 0%. Adler refused to complete work on the album unless he was given a portion of publishing. The band was on the verge of getting dropped if they did not complete the album. With the pressure of the band possibly breaking up, Axl caved and agreed to take 25% so that Adler could receive 15%, even though he hadn't written anything for the band. I have posted a accurate list of song credits in the thread already, you should check it out, since you're interested in this. Sure, you'd rather have the facts than the nonsense.

Edited March 16, 2017 by MADDOGJONES

[TheSeeker]

14 minutes ago, MADDOGJONES said:

@TheSeeker

You are aware that even Slash has stated that Steven Adler wrote ZERO songs in GNR, right?

Slash came up with a formula to determine what everyone in the band deserved. By that formula, Slash determined that Axl was responsible for writing approximately 41.7% of Appetite and Adler was responsible for 0%. Adler refused to complete work on the album unless he was given a portion of publishing. The band was on the verge of getting dropped if they did not complete the album. With the pressure of the band possibly breaking up, Axl caved and agreed to take 25% so that Adler could receive 15%, even though he hadn't written anything for the band. I have posted a accurate list of song credits in the thread already, you should check it out, since you're interested in this. Sure, you'd rather have the facts than the nonsense.

You're insane

[MADDOGJONES]

Just now, TheSeeker said:

You're insane

Why am I insane? Are you not familiar with the Adler court case?

The above is public record and was testified to under oath, just because you don't know about it doesn't make me "insane". Grow up for god's sake.

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, MADDOGJONES said:

If what you're saying is the case why did the band submit SPECIFIC songwriting credits to ASCAP?

"All songs by Guns N Roses" doesn't mean that each and every member has credit on each and every song or that each and every member contributed to songwriting on each and every song. All songs are by Guns N Roses on the album, who's saying different? All songs were not written by all members (obviously). STEVEN ADLER HAS NO WRITING CREDITS IN GNR. That is a fact, sorry if you're not comfortable with the reality of the situation, but it is what it is. Song credits are not recorded in this way. "All songs by Guns N Roses" is clearly a statement of solidarity, not a an official record of songwriting credits. That would be, ya know, ASCAP.

Argue against me as much as you want but I'm correct and you are incorrect. I'm speaking about a matter of fact that if some of you weren't so lazy could confirm or deny by visiting ASCAP yourselves instead of parroting what you think you know already. The problem is you don't want to learn what's true and what isn't you just want to believe what you already believe. Seems strange to me anyone would be like that but they seem common in some corners of the web, I would think as a fan of the band you would want to learn about the band, not buy into horseshit, but I guess not.

 

We're talking about who has songwriting credits on AFD and Lies here, not who actually wrote what and how the publishing royalties were split.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Blackstar

[MADDOGJONES]

3 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

We're talking about who has songwriting credits on AFD and Lies here, not who actually wrote what and how the publishing royalties were split.

who has songwriting credits is directly related to who wrote something quite obviously. 

[Blackstar]

3 minutes ago, MADDOGJONES said:

who has songwriting credits is directly related to who wrote something quite obviously. 

Not always. When songwriting credits are given to the band (like AFD) and not to members by name (like UYI), it means that all the members are credited regardless of whether they actually had part in writing or not.

Anyway, I guess you aren't changing your mind, so it's pointless. I'm not going to reply to another post on this subject.

[MADDOGJONES]

The fact is Steven didn't write any songs in guns n roses si a list posted that states or alludes that he did is BS, not to mention that the list also has incorrect numbers for Axl, Izzy, Slash and duff. But by all means defend incorrect information.

Edited March 16, 2017 by MADDOGJONES

[soon]

So, about West Arkeen's passing.  It was always my impression that he would be an ongoing collaborator.  He wrote with Axl and Duff in separate capacities and one of those tracks opens every show on NITL.  

I would imagine that as the band was struggling to find its way in the mid 90's it would've felt like a serous blow to loose a member of the writing team, a member of the GNR family.   

There were more lawyers and managers then original GNR and their larger gang. That cant be good for creativity either. 

When a new album of original music final came out under GNR moniker there were in my opinion outside writers on it.  West was an insider and a friend with original GNR members.  Pete Scaturro and company was not.  Yes he was part of the Brain, Bucket, Melissa camp - but his appearance on the album to me is as an outside writer.  I actually really like the songs those writers are credited on, but their presence in writing process is not the same IMHO.

So GNR has always benefited form collaborations from non band members and then they lost a key one at a critical time.  I think its a piece of a big puzzle.

[Blackstar]

13 minutes ago, MADDOGJONES said:

So if the credits are given to all members of the band why doesn't Steven adler have ASCAP credits for welcome to the jungle (for example)!

I said I wouldn't reply, but... he has:

https://www.ascap.com/ace#ace/search/workID/530320082

Edited March 16, 2017 by Blackstar

[wasted]

13 hours ago, life_247 said:

I like Fortus I really do - but most of the stuff he's worked on writing wise has been erm - average. Now he's spent most of his career dropping into bands and playing live - so he's pretty perfect for his role in Guns at the moment.

Bare in mind he managed 0 writing credits on CD and managed to only make it onto 5 tracks (4 of those still featuring Tobais !). I'm not super confident that he's just going to be able to write a record with Slash & Duff just because he's of a compatible style. Furthermore most recently Slash, Duff and Axl have essentially been working as Solo artists rather than in fully collabrative bands - which could create a little butting of heads.

However Slash is a trooper when it comes to writing so I'm hoping he's been putting riffs and songs together for the other guys to work on. After the tour they can try and if it doesn't work swap the other people out (we assume Axl/Slash/Duff should be able to work together on music)

All Slash needs is a solid rhythmn guitarist. Fortus is very versatile he's done stuff with Puffy Daddy and Thin Lizzy. 

But there was a creative songwriter in Izzy that is hard to find. To me a song like River should have a wider audience. 

[wasted]

11 hours ago, EvanG said:

Das ist blöd.

The only other german I know is Das Boat, Blitzkrieg and Heidi Klum. 

[Draguns]

On 3/15/2017 at 10:59 AM, El Guapo said:

Just read an Interview with Stevie Nicks, she got asked about doing a new Fleetwood Mac record. Here's her answer:

"I don't think we'll do another record. If the music business were different, I might feel different. I don't think there's any reason to spend a year and an amazing amount of money on a record that, even if it has great things, isn't going to sell. What we do is go on the road, do a ton of shows and make lots of money. We have a lot of fun. Making a record isn't all that much fun."

Combine that with super high expectations and Axl being Axl and Izzy being pissed...I guess it's safe to say we're all fucked.
Sad but probably true.

Not to get too far off from GNR, but I read the article in the bus this morning going to work. Some are speculating that she said this because either she doesn't want to be with Buckingham in the studio or that she's jealous that Buckingham and Christine McVey have chemistry on the songs that would have been a Fleetwood Mac album. Nicks came across as being petty in that article so I would take it with a grain of salt. 

I don't think what Nicks said should be applied to GNR. The situations are just completely different. 

[ludurigan]

On 3/15/2017 at 1:53 AM, TheSeeker said:

I felt bored, so here's a list of everyone who has a songwriting credit for officially released Guns N' Roses songs, and the number of songs they have a credit for:

Axl Rose - 54

Izzy Stradlin - 30

Slash - 25

Duff McKagan - 20

Steven Adler - 16

Paul Tobias - 9

Dizzy Reed - 7

Robin Finck - 7

Tommy Stinson - 6

West Arkeen - 4

Buckethead - 3

Chris Weber - 3

Caram Costanzo - 3

Del James - 2

Josh Freese - 2

Bryan Mantia - 2

Chris Pitman - 2

Timo Caltia - 1

Dave Lank - 1

Billy McCloud - 1

Eric Caudieux - 1

Sean Riggs - 1

Pete Scaturro - 1

you are SERIOUSLY counting Axl Rose solo songs as GNR songs?

 

 

[ludurigan]

2 hours ago, wasted said:

Fortus is very versatile he's done stuff with Puffy Daddy and Thin Lizzy.

not really thin lizzy, right?

[ludurigan]

10 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

The moment you realise you don't even know half the people that have been in your favourite band.

to the best of my knowledge all these people have been in axls solo band

my favourite band is GNR and these aliens have never played on it and have nothing to do with it!

[ludurigan]

12 hours ago, MADDOGJONES said:

@TheSeeker

You are aware that even Slash has stated that Steven Adler wrote ZERO songs in GNR, right?

Slash came up with a formula to determine what everyone in the band deserved. By that formula, Slash determined that Axl was responsible for writing approximately 41.7% of Appetite and Adler was responsible for 0%. Adler refused to complete work on the album unless he was given a portion of publishing. The band was on the verge of getting dropped if they did not complete the album. With the pressure of the band possibly breaking up, Axl caved and agreed to take 25% so that Adler could receive 15%, even though he hadn't written anything for the band. I have posted a accurate list of song credits in the thread already, you should check it out, since you're interested in this. Sure, you'd rather have the facts than the nonsense.

its so good to learn new things!

to this day I thought adler had created all the drum parts for appetite

including the best rock drum beat ever, rocket queen

but today i learned that adler didnt write it

because slash created a formula!

and slashs formula says adler didnt write anything

wow, so much quality info!

i love it!

[wasted]

2 hours ago, ludurigan said:

not really thin lizzy, right?

We're not out to destroy him. He's dependable to tour with Thin Lizzy. He's done a lot of session work. He played All About the Benjamins for P Diddy. That's enough for me. They can make a record with him. Call him Tobilby. 

But he's not Izzy, either in GNR as a songwriter or his solo work. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by wasted