MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, EvanG said: The first verse in Think About You and Patience is something a 15 year old writes in his first love letter when he's trying to be romantic. Dust N' Bones is a fine song, but lyrically... oh my. Sometimes these women are so easy, sometimes these women are so cold. Riiiiight. Don't even get me started on You Ain't The First. Something that could have been on a Weird Al Yankovic album. Pretty Tied Up and Double Talkin' Jive... are kinda boneheaded. Good thing is that even with not such great lyrics you can still have a good song, so I still enjoy most of them. I guess it's preference. I like more surrealistic and poetic lyrics, and that's hard to find in any GnR song, let alone Izzy's. Ha! Gonna have to disagree with you there about Dust N Bones, but now that you've said you're more into the surrealistic and poetic side of things, it makes sense. We're at opposite ends of the lyrics spectrum. I like simple lyrics - not simplistic I hasten to add - but plain speaking, direct, blunt, say what you mean, mean what you say type lyrics. So I fully appreciate those parallel themes in Dust N Bones: Sometimes these things they are so easy, sometimes they are so cold, and then the women are easy and then they're cold. He's saying it how it is. Sometimes life is easy, sometimes it's shit etc...same for the men/women in our lives. My favourite lyric from that song: We live and hope to see the next day. I guess it depends on life experience, but that rings very true for me. It's very simply put but it resonates. This is also why I like Sorry and everyone else hates it. Not trying to persuade you here, you've got your preference; just discussing lyrics is my thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 16 minutes ago, EvanG said: Jagger isn't the most poetic lyricist either, but I can take him more seriously than Stradlin. Jagger wrote some exceptional lyrics; he is very much underrated as a lyricist in fact. Try for instance 'Sweet Black Angel'' about Angela Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cantona Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Some nutter in another forum is yelling that Izzy wrote the Sweet Child intro and all of the lyrics in a cabin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said: Ha! Gonna have to disagree with you there about Dust N Bones, but now that you've said you're more into the surrealistic and poetic side of things, it makes sense. We're at opposite ends of the lyrics spectrum. I like simple lyrics - not simplistic I hasten to add - but plain speaking, direct, blunt, say what you mean, mean what you say type lyrics. I get what you're saying. What I like about lyrics that aren't 'direct' is that you can make up your own story around it and make it about your own problem, even though it has nothing to do with it. And I just prefer more poetic stuff... like that Silverchair album "Neon Ballroom'' that you mentioned in the other thread. All those lyrics were originally poems, but turned into lyrics, and I think they are great. Some of Stradlin lyrics sound a bit like locker room talk. I know in rock n roll it's good to be direct and blunt sometimes, but you can still do that in a more sophisticated way. And the lyrics in Think About You and Patience come off as sappy as some of Jon Bon Jovi's lyrics. It's easy to ignore how sappy they really are because the music and melody make up for it. 18 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Jagger wrote some exceptional lyrics; he is very much underrated as a lyricist in fact. Try for instance 'Sweet Black Angel'' about Angela Davis. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DieselDaisy Posted August 12, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2017 To elaborate further, Stradlin is the master of wit, irony, brevity and foresight. I never took to Rose's lyrics but I took immediately to Stradlin's drollness and conciseness when I was a youngster discovering Guns back in the early 1990s. Some of my favourites, Quote Bullshit and contemplation Gossip's their trade If they knew half the real truth What would they say Well I'm past the point of concern It's time to play These last 4 years of madness Sure put me straight Is this about the women of the song or Guns N' Roses?. I love that line, ''if they knew half the real truth/what would they say?''. Quote Once there was this rock n' roll band Rollin' on the streets Time went by and it became a joke We just needed more and more fulfilling... uh-huh Time went by and it all went up in smoke The succinct reason why GN'R went tits up - were going tits up at that very moment. We've (the fans) all argued this, completely wasting our time for years in essay like threads of utter bollocks on here and other fora, yet there Izzy explains it all for us in one brief passage with a Nostradamus like clarity. Quote He lost his mind today He left it out back on the highway On "65" What a great way to begin a rock n' roll song! You are instantly in a ''story' here, a subverted 'American tale' judging from that opening stanza. Quote Time's short your life's your own And in the end We are just Dust n' bones Deadpan and droll. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 ^ Those happen to be the lines that I like, especially the 14 Years lyrics, but a lot of other lyrics by him, especially the sappy ones, don't do it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 @DieselDaisy Speaking of Jagger, don't forget 'I was born in a crossfire hurricane' as one of the all time great song intros. ^^ I agree with all you've said about Izzy's lyrics there. I'm a fan. @EvanG I understand what you mean re: rock n roll lyrics that are blunt, yet possess a measure of sophistication and yes, I think Daniel Johns handles that crossover mostly very well (sometimes really incoherently). Tuna in the Brine?!? One my favourites songs by the way, but lyrically fucking insane. Still, he's never dull. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I also like 'Double Talkin' Jive'. The lyrics are in a state of (deliberate) incompleteness which is another Izzy trademark (e.g., 'California', 'Here Comes the Rain') and consist of a series of extraordinary vignettes on a sleazy lifestyle. And I do not use the term extraordinary lightly: ''head and an arm in a garbage can''. You do not even need to know the backstory really, of the police discovering body parts behind the studio they were working at. It still sounds subversive somehow. I like the line, ''living on the run for oh so long, I gotta go collect'' for some reason. This must have been the lifestyle that Izzy was running away from. 'Brownstone' and 'Bad Obsession' are the drug/obsession songs. When you're drinking to excess - 'on the piss' as they say here - you are drinking to achieve the same feeling as you felt after the first few drinks. If you've been 'on the piss' long enough, your body and mind begins to adapt to the stimulant and resist it; consequentially it takes more of the booze to attain that feeling. It is a vicious cycle and ultimately a recipe in futility. The songs are more specifically applied to drugs, and more specific again heroin. I have no great experience with drugs but it is a similar vicious cycle I believe. It appears in many manifestations really, not just stimulants but addiction to pornography, computer games etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) 51 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said: I understand what you mean re: rock n roll lyrics that are blunt, yet possess a measure of sophistication and yes, I think Daniel Johns handles that crossover mostly very well (sometimes really incoherently). Tuna in the Brine?!? One my favourites songs by the way, but lyrically fucking insane. Still, he's never dull. Ah, yes, Tuna In The Brine, one of my favourites, too, it's almost a classical song. Amazing how he went from Tomorrow to a masterpiece like this. About the lyrics, I guess that I'm on a very different page. I like Axl's lyrics a lot more, they just seem way more personal. Quote My mamma never really said much to me She was much too young and scared ta be Hell, Freud might say that's what I need But all I really ever get is greed Pretty self-explanatory, about his relationship with his mother. Quote I never wanted this to happen Didn't want to be a man So I hid inside my world I took what I could find I cried when I was lonely I fell down when I was blind I think this is about his grandmother who raised him and hated men, which made him feel insecure about his manhood. Quote I was only a small child When the thought first came to me That I'm a son of a gun and the gun of a son That brought back the devil in me Not that I can relate to these lyrics on a personal level, but something like this speaks more to me than songs about drugs or finding a head and an arm in a garbage can. That's why I prefer UYI lyrically over AFD. Axl is speaking about his personal issues and insecurities and that is way more interesting (to me) than songs about sex and drugs. Edited August 12, 2017 by EvanG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papashaun Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Can someone fill me more in on the background of "My World." In a sense....that was sort of leading to a different direction that Axl went with songs like Oh My God and Shackler's Revenge, out of the normal rock content produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 If I had to pick Izzy or Axl as a lyricist, and only have one, it would have to be Axl. Welcome to the jungle, SCOM, NR and MANY more would NOT exist without Axl. I don't know how some can sell him so short as a lyricist? He is one of my all time favs, to be honest. He has such a unique perspective, that I find very interesting. Having said that, I LOVE Izzys lyrics as well. Most of his songs would fall into the "filler" category by most casual rock fans, but they are SO much deeper than traditional "filler" tracks by other artists. That's what makes Appetite through the Illusions so special, even the "filler" songs are very interesting. 14 years, Dust n Bones, double talking jive, etc are ALL excellent lyrics that are better than most other bands best songs. But again, if push comes to shove I prefer Axl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerInThisTown Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 30 minutes ago, papashaun said: Can someone fill me more in on the background of "My World." In a sense....that was sort of leading to a different direction that Axl went with songs like Oh My God and Shackler's Revenge, out of the normal rock content produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top-Hatted One Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 So fine is one of my favorites. I let Bad Apples & My World play when it comes on and always dig em. Back of Bitch is good Shotgun Blue is my least favorite GN'R song. Worse than Anything Goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top-Hatted One Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 5:22 PM, DieselDaisy said: To elaborate further, Stradlin is the master of wit, irony, brevity and foresight. I never took to Rose's lyrics but I took immediately to Stradlin's drollness and conciseness when I was a youngster discovering Guns back in the early 1990s. Some of my favourites, Is this about the women of the song or Guns N' Roses?. I love that line, ''if they knew half the real truth/what would they say?''. The succinct reason why GN'R went tits up - were going tits up at that very moment. We've (the fans) all argued this, completely wasting our time for years in essay like threads of utter bollocks on here and other fora, yet there Izzy explains it all for us in one brief passage with a Nostradamus like clarity. What a great way to begin a rock n' roll song! You are instantly in a ''story' here, a subverted 'American tale' judging from that opening stanza. Deadpan and droll. Right on with Izzy's D&Bs lyrics especially the opennng line! My girlfriend listens to Britney Spears and still loves the song and always sings along to the opening line. Her fav songs are Its so easy & Dont Cry. She's an Izzy fan and doesn't even know it lol She's not into Izzy's solo songs the way I am tho. Too country/redneck/Stonesy for her. She prefers Slash and duffs music. Izzy does have a great way with words. It can't be stated enough how special a band GNR was with all their influences, skills and tendencies coming together. Their punk influences especially with duff, Axl's Elton John/Billy Joel & Pink Floyd piano/synth influence and their shared admiration for Motörhead & Zeppelin. We can go on forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top-Hatted One Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 On 8/10/2017 at 3:50 PM, EvanG said: I have always considered Anything Goes a filler track. But that's just me, I know some people like it. It's awful and it's a Hollywood Rose song not GNR. Still 11/12 great songs is pretty damn remarkable for the greatest debut hard rock album of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top-Hatted One Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 On 8/11/2017 at 4:52 PM, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said: LOL! Bless him, I love the man, but he does suck at lyrics and he does suck at singing. I think that's why I can't get into Loaded (only Executioner's Song and even then, lyrics are awful). A front man he is not. But I have a soft spot for So Fine. God knows why. I think I like the way the piano overlaps with the guitar. Glad someone else likes BOB. Was beginning to think I was the only one. I don't care about the lyrics. It's a great song. Back of Bitch would've been better received if they put it on Appetite instead of Anything Goes. Adler's upbeat drums and groove really adds a lot. I love Sorum on all UYI songsbbut feel his bland drumming on BOB ruins the song for me and is probably the biggest reason for the hate he gets from the afd5 purists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said: Having said that, I LOVE Izzys lyrics as well. Most of his songs would fall into the "filler" category by most casual rock fans, but they are SO much deeper than traditional "filler" tracks by other artists. That's what makes Appetite through the Illusions so special, even the "filler" songs are very interesting. 14 years, Dust n Bones, double talking jive, etc are ALL excellent lyrics that are better than most other bands best songs. It's funny, the more I think about it, the more I dislike him as a lyricist. I already expressed my dislike towards the incredibly sappy and cheesy lyrics the man has written, which in comparison makes even Gary Barlow look like a poet. But also on an album like 117° he is writing lyrics about the freaking weather and how hot it is. Now, I don't mind writing about the little things in life, but even then you can still write original lines, and I don't find that in his lyrics. I think he's a fantastic songwriter, just not a great lyricist. Except for 14 Years... awesome lyrics. Maybe he should write more about Axl, it brings out the best in him... Edited August 16, 2017 by EvanG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Boy Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 8:14 PM, EvanG said: I like more surrealistic and poetic lyrics, and that's hard to find in any GnR song Umm really?? Have you listened to e.g. Coma, or The Garden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Boy Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 One thing I want to reiterate is the value of 'Civil War' in terms of what it showed GnR to be capable of. Basically when grunge and Nirvana were in ascendency, a lot of their fans would say "yeah GnR don't have integrity, they just write misogynistic crap about 'bitches' or do soppy overblown ballads. Nirvana, well there's a band who write clever, nuanced lyrics that talk about the state of society, and young people relate to Kurt's intelligence, blah bla bla" GnR had no integrity? Really? So could Nirvana have produced a song like 'Civil War', which was a more incisive commentary on warfare, militarism and politics (with a small p) than Nirvana could ever have hoped to write, amongst their deluge of bedroom teenage angst songs? Hardly profound material. (And I do say that as a Nirvana fan; I just hated the sanctimonious grunge crew who claimed GnR had 'nothing to say' whereas Kurt was some enlightened genius philosopher. Bollox. Civil War alone proves what GnR were capable of when it comes to serious social commentary.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 50 minutes ago, Nice Boy said: Umm really?? Have you listened to e.g. Coma, or The Garden? No, are they good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 35 minutes ago, Nice Boy said: One thing I want to reiterate is the value of 'Civil War' in terms of what it showed GnR to be capable of. Basically when grunge and Nirvana were in ascendency, a lot of their fans would say "yeah GnR don't have integrity, they just write misogynistic crap about 'bitches' or do soppy overblown ballads. Nirvana, well there's a band who write clever, nuanced lyrics that talk about the state of society, and young people relate to Kurt's intelligence, blah bla bla" Cobain didn't write about society really, he wrote mainly about himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Boy Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 13 hours ago, EvanG said: Cobain didn't write about society really, he wrote mainly about himself. yeah exactly, but a lot of the fans took it as spokesman for a generation etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xBrownstonex Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Hating an illusions song is like hating pizza, or your pet. Or yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, Nice Boy said: yeah exactly, but a lot of the fans took it as spokesman for a generation etc I think it was mainly the media who stuck him into that role against his own will. Kids related to him because he wrote about depression, angst and coming from a dysfunctional family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 20 minutes ago, xBrownstonex said: Hating an illusions song is like hating pizza, or your pet. Or yourself 'My World' is then, for me, the same as a pineapple pizza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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